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Ni no Kuni: Cross Worlds Has Crypto-Tokens, But That's Not the Worst Part of the Game | MMONFT

SystemSystem Member UncommonPosts: 12,599
Post edited by StevenWeber on
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  • slowz2secretslowz2secret Member RarePosts: 453
    I hate netmarble for doing this to this amazing game, the game is really fun but damn they destroyed it with crypto and the p2w
    maskedweasel
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,088
    So once again a game built mostly around it's monetization model more than anything else, with it's Blockchain currencies possibly being the most positive aspect of it's many payment models.

    Well at least there's a game there, though autoplay mobile games aren't my thing millions love them so a plus for that crowd I guess.


    eoloeScot

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • MendelMendel Member LegendaryPosts: 5,609
    Auto-play -- where the game has fun and players are left to imagine having fun.  Plus monetization.



    ChampieScotRavZterz

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • eoloeeoloe Member RarePosts: 864
    "Ni no Kuni: Cross Worlds Has Crypto-Tokens, But That's Not the Worst Part of the Game | MMONFT"

    Interesting title.

    I also found interesting the part that presents Crypto-tokens as a way to compete against the whales. At the same time, I think that only the minority of players able "to play the system" will really be able to use them to fulfill this objective (and I really wonder to what extent!).

    At the end of the day, this game sounds more like a giant international money vacuum than a monetization system equalizer.
    maskedweaselSarlaChampieKyleran
  • AsturiosAsturios Member UncommonPosts: 47
    I Dont Care about both of those i play it for the story which is btw fantastic so far and after that iam done with the game.
    maskedweaselbcbullyDragnelusScott_JeslisKyleran
  • DattelisDattelis Member EpicPosts: 1,676
    edited May 2022
    MMONFT, I have a feeling this will be a truly accepted mmo-subgenre

    "You can earn Territe by farming the Chaos Field instances and nodes in the Familiar Adventure Mode. You can AFK farm in the Chaos Fields, and even set the game to farm for you while the game is closed, making it easy to earn Territe even if you're not logged into the game."

    Sounds like a botter paradise. I'm not really a financial person, but it sounds like the market wont take long to crash with systems like this even if they were to put on a daily cap or something.
    Kyleran
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,197
    Asturios said:
    I Dont Care about both of those i play it for the story which is btw fantastic so far and after that iam done with the game.
    I wish it was that easy. It feels like I get stuck just trying to go through the story because I'm too low on power. 

    Usually these kinds of games give you a big power boost if you level alts but I'm not seeing it. I don't know if I'll be able to stick it out for the story if it's a long one. It feels like around level 40 of so you hit a bit wall.
    bcbullyKyleran



  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,843
    Nice in depth write up.
  • MensurMensur Member EpicPosts: 1,531
    edited May 2022
    I would rather eat shit than play this garbage. Great article btw!
    SarlaKyleran

    mmorpg junkie since 1999



  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Crypto currencies as the great anti P2Win equalizer? This I'll have to see play out over time and until then I'll just consider it more unsubstantiated pro-crypto hype.
    [Deleted User]mklinic
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • Morfo2Morfo2 Member UncommonPosts: 136
    This is not a game. I don't understand how can people consider a non playable game a game but ok....
    Theocritus
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,197
    Iselin said:
    Crypto currencies as the great anti P2Win equalizer? This I'll have to see play out over time and until then I'll just consider it more unsubstantiated pro-crypto hype.
    I don't think it will make pay to win and free to play players equals. I do think that we could see some benefits for free players selling stuff to whales though. 

    If there's one thing I think this game does well, is they give out a good amount of territe. A lot of stuff uses it though. 

    Crafting is one example. If you want to craft weapons or armor you need territe.

    I think the game is okay if you know mobile games at all. It's probably the among the worst cash shops I've ever seen though. I've been playing and just saving my territe. I'm going to wait until next week and see what happens when the market goes live. 

    I bet you it's going to be some stupid exchange rate, especially early on, like 100 territe for 1 dollar or something. If that's the case, free to play players probably will make some money with the afk farms, but it would be something like, 10 - 20 dollars a week. 

    Not exactly getting rich out there, and nowhere near whale levels, but if they like the game maybe they can afford some crappy GACHA rolls.
    bcbully[Deleted User]



  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Iselin said:
    Crypto currencies as the great anti P2Win equalizer? This I'll have to see play out over time and until then I'll just consider it more unsubstantiated pro-crypto hype.
    I don't think it will make pay to win and free to play players equals. I do think that we could see some benefits for free players selling stuff to whales though. 

    If there's one thing I think this game does well, is they give out a good amount of territe. A lot of stuff uses it though. 

    Crafting is one example. If you want to craft weapons or armor you need territe.

    I think the game is okay if you know mobile games at all. It's probably the among the worst cash shops I've ever seen though. I've been playing and just saving my territe. I'm going to wait until next week and see what happens when the market goes live. 

    I bet you it's going to be some stupid exchange rate, especially early on, like 100 territe for 1 dollar or something. If that's the case, free to play players probably will make some money with the afk farms, but it would be something like, 10 - 20 dollars a week. 

    Not exactly getting rich out there, and nowhere near whale levels, but if they like the game maybe they can afford some crappy GACHA rolls.
    So in other words, if the speculation about how this will play out turns out to be that F2P players get some money in their pockets they too will be able to become mini wales and participate in the P2Win? That sounds like a weird way of "equalizing," sort of like coping with the zombie apocalypse by becoming a zombie yourself :) 
    maskedweasel[Deleted User]
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,197
    Iselin said:
    So in other words, if the speculation about how this will play out turns out to be that F2P players get some money in their pockets they too will be able to become mini wales and participate in the P2Win? That sounds like a weird way of "equalizing," sort of like coping with the zombie apocalypse by becoming a zombie yourself :) 
    I think thats fair. The alternative is to take the money, exchange it, and run away. I don't know the exchange rates yet, but after all the fees, even if they do let you exchange the tokens through the marblex wallet to something like USDC (Circle) and you cash it out, you'll probably take a good 10 - 20% off your exchange by cashing it out. 

    So that means free to play players will probably be able to afford 2 large pizzas once a week. Or they can... yknow.. become mini whale zombies. 

    It's speculation though. For all I know territe could be like 50 cents per 100 territe, or even less. It would definitely kill whatever territe token economy there could be if the price was in the gutter, but, oh well. I guess we'll find out in a couple weeks.
    [Deleted User]



  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,516
    The flip side of "pay to win" is "get paid to lose".  And it looks like that's what they're trying to do here for the people who are trying to "play to earn".  Of course, that will end up as earning not very much.  And then likely seeing what earnings you thought you had mostly evaporate if you take too long to cash out and the whales move on.

    One perennial problem with flagrant "play to win" games is, why would you play it if you're not a whale?  After all, you can't win if you're not a whale.  They seem to be trying to solve that by saying, we'll pay you a little bit of money to play it and give the whales someone to crush.
    eoloe
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,843
    edited May 2022
    Farmers and crafters dont have to worry about pvp and can farm and craft then sell to pvprs and make money, real money.


    Idk, im pretty sure i've heard something like this asked for a few times on these forums.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Torval said:
    Iselin said:
    So in other words, if the speculation about how this will play out turns out to be that F2P players get some money in their pockets they too will be able to become mini wales and participate in the P2Win? That sounds like a weird way of "equalizing," sort of like coping with the zombie apocalypse by becoming a zombie yourself :) 
    I think thats fair. The alternative is to take the money, exchange it, and run away. I don't know the exchange rates yet, but after all the fees, even if they do let you exchange the tokens through the marblex wallet to something like USDC (Circle) and you cash it out, you'll probably take a good 10 - 20% off your exchange by cashing it out. 

    So that means free to play players will probably be able to afford 2 large pizzas once a week. Or they can... yknow.. become mini whale zombies. 

    It's speculation though. For all I know territe could be like 50 cents per 100 territe, or even less. It would definitely kill whatever territe token economy there could be if the price was in the gutter, but, oh well. I guess we'll find out in a couple weeks.

    Sorry, but as a Gen X child of the eighties, I am way too cynical to believe any sort of trickle down economics is going to play out in favor of the little guy. What I expect to happen is those with the money and power to leverage their assets will use everyone else (free to play  or otherwise) as pawns to make themselves more money.

    We'll see, but I have zero faith in unregulated capitalist systems like this.
    Still waiting for reaganomics to trickle down to the working class and ever shrinking middle class. It's been 40 years. Maybe it takes longer? :)

    All of this hopeful unicorns and rainbow imaginings of the future effects of Crypto, NFTs, W3 and what have you in gaming where the poor find a better life game doesn't just sound stupendously naive to me, it's an old song and dance I've heard and seen countless times before.

    Hey, there's nothing wrong with wanting unicorns and rainbows, world peace and sharing the wealth but when it's the money people telling me that this is what they're up to this time around, pardon me if I default to my "Bullshit! Show me" attitude. 
    [Deleted User]Mendel
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • SetzerSetzer Member UncommonPosts: 261
    I'm enjoying the game. Not spending anything on it, don't care about the crypto stuff. It's a fun mobile MMO and I love the auto play feature so I can have the AI grind for me while I'm at work or sleeping.....stuff I don't like doing when I actually play the game.
    maskedweaselbcbully[Deleted User]Kyleran
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,197
    Torval said:
    Iselin said:
    So in other words, if the speculation about how this will play out turns out to be that F2P players get some money in their pockets they too will be able to become mini wales and participate in the P2Win? That sounds like a weird way of "equalizing," sort of like coping with the zombie apocalypse by becoming a zombie yourself :) 
    I think thats fair. The alternative is to take the money, exchange it, and run away. I don't know the exchange rates yet, but after all the fees, even if they do let you exchange the tokens through the marblex wallet to something like USDC (Circle) and you cash it out, you'll probably take a good 10 - 20% off your exchange by cashing it out. 

    So that means free to play players will probably be able to afford 2 large pizzas once a week. Or they can... yknow.. become mini whale zombies. 

    It's speculation though. For all I know territe could be like 50 cents per 100 territe, or even less. It would definitely kill whatever territe token economy there could be if the price was in the gutter, but, oh well. I guess we'll find out in a couple weeks.

    Sorry, but as a Gen X child of the eighties, I am way too cynical to believe any sort of trickle down economics is going to play out in favor of the little guy. What I expect to happen is those with the money and power to leverage their assets will use everyone else (free to play  or otherwise) as pawns to make themselves more money.

    We'll see, but I have zero faith in unregulated capitalist systems like this.
    I understand what you're saying, but this isn't trickle down economics. It would be simple supply and demand. 

    It does seem to get more complicated when you look at some of the stuff on the horizon, like staking currency. 

    As a simple currency to buy and sell items, it makes sense. Someone wants to craft 100 armor pieces, they need 100 territe, they buy 100 territe from the exchange, which comes from whoever sold the territe initially. That means the person selling could be a whale, and the person buying could be a meesly peasant, it doesn't really matter.

    I guess it just makes more sense that the whales would be the ones buying, and the free to play players that don't have a lot of resources would be selling. 

    It kind of makes sense, because you really don't need a ton of territe unless you're really high level, and theres a maximum cap on how much you can hold, so if you're getting close to the max you can hold, players would sell so they can get more. Since I'm not spending real money, I'm just earning a lot of territe. I think my max right now is like 2000, and I average about maybe 200 a day? So unless I use some after a little over a week I'll just be my cap, unless I level up to the next tier or use some I would be better off selling to whoever is buying then just sitting at max and not earning any more. 

    The silly thing is, I could see myself offline farming this game everyday and doing the dailies just to sell the territe, because when it comes to the game itself, since its autoplay I'm already getting pretty bored of it, and I'm only halfway to max level.
    [Deleted User]bcbully[Deleted User]



  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member EpicPosts: 7,098
    edited May 2022
    Level-5 can go bankrupt for all I care at this point and hope this will blow up in their faces.

    They have become lazy as F! They couldn't even be bothered to release the Yokai Watch 1 Switch port to the West, even though all translation was already done with the 3DS version. So there was literally no reason to hold that back.

    Yo-kai Watch 4 for Switch they promised to release in the West also never happened.
    bcbullyMensurSetzer
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,516
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:
    Iselin said:
    So in other words, if the speculation about how this will play out turns out to be that F2P players get some money in their pockets they too will be able to become mini wales and participate in the P2Win? That sounds like a weird way of "equalizing," sort of like coping with the zombie apocalypse by becoming a zombie yourself :) 
    I think thats fair. The alternative is to take the money, exchange it, and run away. I don't know the exchange rates yet, but after all the fees, even if they do let you exchange the tokens through the marblex wallet to something like USDC (Circle) and you cash it out, you'll probably take a good 10 - 20% off your exchange by cashing it out. 

    So that means free to play players will probably be able to afford 2 large pizzas once a week. Or they can... yknow.. become mini whale zombies. 

    It's speculation though. For all I know territe could be like 50 cents per 100 territe, or even less. It would definitely kill whatever territe token economy there could be if the price was in the gutter, but, oh well. I guess we'll find out in a couple weeks.

    Sorry, but as a Gen X child of the eighties, I am way too cynical to believe any sort of trickle down economics is going to play out in favor of the little guy. What I expect to happen is those with the money and power to leverage their assets will use everyone else (free to play  or otherwise) as pawns to make themselves more money.

    We'll see, but I have zero faith in unregulated capitalist systems like this.
    Still waiting for reaganomics to trickle down to the working class and ever shrinking middle class. It's been 40 years. Maybe it takes longer? :)

    All of this hopeful unicorns and rainbow imaginings of the future effects of Crypto, NFTs, W3 and what have you in gaming where the poor find a better life game doesn't just sound stupendously naive to me, it's an old song and dance I've heard and seen countless times before.

    Hey, there's nothing wrong with wanting unicorns and rainbows, world peace and sharing the wealth but when it's the money people telling me that this is what they're up to this time around, pardon me if I default to my "Bullshit! Show me" attitude. 
    You're not waiting for it to happen.  The only thing missing is for you to notice that it happened.

    Americans tend to be a lot wealthier today than we were 40 years ago.  Smartphones, broadband internet, cars with many tiny computers inside, and a lot of other things that were rare to non-existent 40 years ago are ubiquitous today.  Sometimes people try to fold that into the cost of living as though nothing has changed, but that's completely wrong.  A lot has changed.

    The sort of economic gains that Americans have made in the last 40 years (or nearly any other 40-year period in the country's history) were unheard of in recorded human history before the 18th century.

    And that's far from unique to America.  Plenty of other countries made dramatic gains in wealth over the same period.  Several eastern Asian countries went from poor to rich shockingly quickly (and faster than America did) by figuring out how the West had gotten rich and copying some key features.

    But it's hardly inevitable that countries become wealthier with the passage of time.  Venezuela is a lot poorer today than it was 25 years ago.  Cuba is a lot poorer today than it was 65 years ago, when it was one of the wealthiest countries in the world.

    Something (or more likely, a lot of things) has worked fantastically well for America's economy over the course of the last 40 years.  Any topline economic statistic has an enormous number of inputs, so there's plenty of room to argue as to exactly what factors actually caused the economic growth as opposed to merely occurring at the same time.

    But America's economic trajectory has been about what you'd have expected if Reagan's economic plans worked as intended.  And that was the verdict at the time, too:  he won a majority in 49 states in his re-election bid.

    Does that mean that cryptocurrencies will pan out?  No, of course not.  Plenty of things that were done in the last 40 years in America didn't work out.  But I am saying that your first paragraph is ridiculous.
    IselinKyleran[Deleted User][Deleted User]
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Quizzical said:
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:
    Iselin said:
    So in other words, if the speculation about how this will play out turns out to be that F2P players get some money in their pockets they too will be able to become mini wales and participate in the P2Win? That sounds like a weird way of "equalizing," sort of like coping with the zombie apocalypse by becoming a zombie yourself :) 
    I think thats fair. The alternative is to take the money, exchange it, and run away. I don't know the exchange rates yet, but after all the fees, even if they do let you exchange the tokens through the marblex wallet to something like USDC (Circle) and you cash it out, you'll probably take a good 10 - 20% off your exchange by cashing it out. 

    So that means free to play players will probably be able to afford 2 large pizzas once a week. Or they can... yknow.. become mini whale zombies. 

    It's speculation though. For all I know territe could be like 50 cents per 100 territe, or even less. It would definitely kill whatever territe token economy there could be if the price was in the gutter, but, oh well. I guess we'll find out in a couple weeks.

    Sorry, but as a Gen X child of the eighties, I am way too cynical to believe any sort of trickle down economics is going to play out in favor of the little guy. What I expect to happen is those with the money and power to leverage their assets will use everyone else (free to play  or otherwise) as pawns to make themselves more money.

    We'll see, but I have zero faith in unregulated capitalist systems like this.
    Still waiting for reaganomics to trickle down to the working class and ever shrinking middle class. It's been 40 years. Maybe it takes longer? :)

    All of this hopeful unicorns and rainbow imaginings of the future effects of Crypto, NFTs, W3 and what have you in gaming where the poor find a better life game doesn't just sound stupendously naive to me, it's an old song and dance I've heard and seen countless times before.

    Hey, there's nothing wrong with wanting unicorns and rainbows, world peace and sharing the wealth but when it's the money people telling me that this is what they're up to this time around, pardon me if I default to my "Bullshit! Show me" attitude. 
    You're not waiting for it to happen.  The only thing missing is for you to notice that it happened.

    Americans tend to be a lot wealthier today than we were 40 years ago.  Smartphones, broadband internet, cars with many tiny computers inside, and a lot of other things that were rare to non-existent 40 years ago are ubiquitous today.  Sometimes people try to fold that into the cost of living as though nothing has changed, but that's completely wrong.  A lot has changed.

    The sort of economic gains that Americans have made in the last 40 years (or nearly any other 40-year period in the country's history) were unheard of in recorded human history before the 18th century.

    And that's far from unique to America.  Plenty of other countries made dramatic gains in wealth over the same period.  Several eastern Asian countries went from poor to rich shockingly quickly (and faster than America did) by figuring out how the West had gotten rich and copying some key features.

    But it's hardly inevitable that countries become wealthier with the passage of time.  Venezuela is a lot poorer today than it was 25 years ago.  Cuba is a lot poorer today than it was 65 years ago, when it was one of the wealthiest countries in the world.

    Something (or more likely, a lot of things) has worked fantastically well for America's economy over the course of the last 40 years.  Any topline economic statistic has an enormous number of inputs, so there's plenty of room to argue as to exactly what factors actually caused the economic growth as opposed to merely occurring at the same time.

    But America's economic trajectory has been about what you'd have expected if Reagan's economic plans worked as intended.  And that was the verdict at the time, too:  he won a majority in 49 states in his re-election bid.

    Does that mean that cryptocurrencies will pan out?  No, of course not.  Plenty of things that were done in the last 40 years in America didn't work out.  But I am saying that your first paragraph is ridiculous.
    The Gini Index would like to have a word with you.

    https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/wealth-inequality-by-country

    [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,088
    edited May 2022
    Quizzical said:
    Iselin said:
    Torval said:
    Iselin said:
    So in other words, if the speculation about how this will play out turns out to be that F2P players get some money in their pockets they too will be able to become mini wales and participate in the P2Win? That sounds like a weird way of "equalizing," sort of like coping with the zombie apocalypse by becoming a zombie yourself :) 
    I think thats fair. The alternative is to take the money, exchange it, and run away. I don't know the exchange rates yet, but after all the fees, even if they do let you exchange the tokens through the marblex wallet to something like USDC (Circle) and you cash it out, you'll probably take a good 10 - 20% off your exchange by cashing it out. 

    So that means free to play players will probably be able to afford 2 large pizzas once a week. Or they can... yknow.. become mini whale zombies. 

    It's speculation though. For all I know territe could be like 50 cents per 100 territe, or even less. It would definitely kill whatever territe token economy there could be if the price was in the gutter, but, oh well. I guess we'll find out in a couple weeks.

    Sorry, but as a Gen X child of the eighties, I am way too cynical to believe any sort of trickle down economics is going to play out in favor of the little guy. What I expect to happen is those with the money and power to leverage their assets will use everyone else (free to play  or otherwise) as pawns to make themselves more money.

    We'll see, but I have zero faith in unregulated capitalist systems like this.
    Still waiting for reaganomics to trickle down to the working class and ever shrinking middle class. It's been 40 years. Maybe it takes longer? :)

    All of this hopeful unicorns and rainbow imaginings of the future effects of Crypto, NFTs, W3 and what have you in gaming where the poor find a better life game doesn't just sound stupendously naive to me, it's an old song and dance I've heard and seen countless times before.

    Hey, there's nothing wrong with wanting unicorns and rainbows, world peace and sharing the wealth but when it's the money people telling me that this is what they're up to this time around, pardon me if I default to my "Bullshit! Show me" attitude. 
    You're not waiting for it to happen.  The only thing missing is for you to notice that it happened.

    Americans tend to be a lot wealthier today than we were 40 years ago.  Smartphones, broadband internet, cars with many tiny computers inside, and a lot of other things that were rare to non-existent 40 years ago are ubiquitous today.  Sometimes people try to fold that into the cost of living as though nothing has changed, but that's completely wrong.  A lot has changed.

    The sort of economic gains that Americans have made in the last 40 years (or nearly any other 40-year period in the country's history) were unheard of in recorded human history before the 18th century.

    And that's far from unique to America.  Plenty of other countries made dramatic gains in wealth over the same period.  Several eastern Asian countries went from poor to rich shockingly quickly (and faster than America did) by figuring out how the West had gotten rich and copying some key features.

    But it's hardly inevitable that countries become wealthier with the passage of time.  Venezuela is a lot poorer today than it was 25 years ago.  Cuba is a lot poorer today than it was 65 years ago, when it was one of the wealthiest countries in the world.

    Something (or more likely, a lot of things) has worked fantastically well for America's economy over the course of the last 40 years.  Any topline economic statistic has an enormous number of inputs, so there's plenty of room to argue as to exactly what factors actually caused the economic growth as opposed to merely occurring at the same time.

    But America's economic trajectory has been about what you'd have expected if Reagan's economic plans worked as intended.  And that was the verdict at the time, too:  he won a majority in 49 states in his re-election bid.

    Does that mean that cryptocurrencies will pan out?  No, of course not.  Plenty of things that were done in the last 40 years in America didn't work out.  But I am saying that your first paragraph is ridiculous.
    You are usually a sensible poster, so instead of mocking I'll just leave this here.

    "The middle class, once the economic stratum of a clear majority of American adults, has steadily contracted in the past five decades. The share of adults who live in middle-class households fell from 61% in 1971 to 50% in 2021, according to a new Pew Research Center analysis of government data."

    There's only about a hundred other studies which support this observation, been going on since before Ron was ever in office.

    You want to use technology examples?  In 1973 my grandfather purchased a 13 inch color TV for my Grandmother's kitchen, it cost over $400.

    You can't look at tech improvements as an indicator of increasing wealth, I remember when long distance phone calls were 35 cents per minute, nights after 11pm and weekends only, much higher in the daytime.

    My phone bills in the early 80s averaged around $150 a month, almost as much as my electric bill in the summer at my apartment.

    60% of the school children in my county are on the government assisted lunch and breakfast  programs.

    We most certainly are not getting wealthier as a society overall, even if you see the homeless person walking down the street with their Smart Phone. (Govt  assistance provides those here as well)


    [Deleted User]bcbully[Deleted User]

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

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  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,516
    Iselin said:
    That is completely irrelevant to the dispute at hand on two grounds.

    First, if in real terms, the poor become twice as rich, while the rich become three times as rich, then everyone is better off.  That will also make inequality wider, and so the gini index goes up.

    Second, quoting any particular statistic at a single point in time doesn't prove anything about how it has changed over time.
    [Deleted User]
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Quizzical said:

    Second, quoting any particular statistic at a single point in time doesn't prove anything about how it has changed over time.
    Well this is getting derailed enough into partisan US politics so I'll just leave you to search for that data yourself - it's readily available and clearly shows how the "trickle down" part was just the sales pitch for a scheme to enable the 1% to increase their wealth to obscene levels while the trickle was just that, a tiny little trickle. 
    [Deleted User]
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