Do you have to pay?

time4killing · September 2006

I was just wondering, once u have payed for the game, will you have to pay a monthly fee or not.

And if you do know that you have to pay, how much is it?

Do you think LOTRO should be completely free, that you have to pay monthly (if your wierd and want to do that willingly) or should people be able to pay for certain privilages over others.

Thnx

sly220 · September 2006

Yes there will be a fee they havnt released one as of yet that i know of

Khalathwyr · September 2006

What Sly said.

Based on other games that have recently launched it should be anywhere between $12 to $14.99 (US). I don't think the payment model, or non-payment model, that Guild Wars used is widely liked by game companies. Their job is to make money, after all. It isn't just to make games so we can play them. After reading an article the other day that higlighted the cost of making/running these type games (MMOs) is rising, I highly doubt the pay once and play free forever model will last long.

I mean, from what I've heard, the amount of content updates and bug fixes is less than most other MMOs where there is a monthly fee.

DeletedAcct · September 2006

No, it is not free. Yes, it should be pay-to-play because free-to-play ruins games. A monthly fee keeps a lot of the asshats out.

TheRedDread · September 2006

Yes, Lord of the Rings Online will have a monthly fee, as to how much, expect it to be somewhere $12-$15 usd. That's the price range for most pay to play mmorpgs.

Moirae · September 2006

Why is it that every week someone comes in here begging for the game to be free?

NO IT SHOULDN'T BE FREE.

Paying for the game every month ensures active GM's, constant updates, continual patches, and the creations of expansions. Not to mention, it helps weed out some of the kiddies.

It should never ever be free.

Huntingmage · September 2006

It won't be free. They said. But I voted no anyway because, well, I don't know...

daadamo · September 2006

Originally posted by Zorvan

No, it is not free. Yes, it should be pay-to-play because free-to-play ruins games. A monthly fee keeps a lot of the asshats out.

Unfortunately, some asshats get through.

thornton · September 2006

If Turbine adds monthly patched like AC1 then I will be more than happy to pay a monthly fee. I hope this is the case.

doomrah · September 2006

Unfortunately, some asshats get through.

That's because asshat's get credit cards too ::::15::

Munimortal · September 2006

I definitely prefer the pay-to-play method instead of the pay-for-benefits model. I would rather pay for an even game than play for free in an uneven one. I think that allowing exp/money benefits would only encourage farmers and account sellers to move to this game.

vivatma · September 2006

Originally posted by Munimortal
I definitely prefer the pay-to-play method instead of the pay-for-benefits model. I would rather pay for an even game than play for free in an uneven one. I think that allowing exp/money benefits would only encourage farmers and account sellers to move to this game.

Actually, you will see people farming and selling accounts more in games where there is less supply. Because the demand will be higher and the price higher and therefore more people willing to take the risk. Haven't you taken economy class yet? =P

The problem I have with pay-to-play is, NOT everyone game that is p2p has active GMs, more updates, ect ect. Take EverQuest for example, they soaked up money like crazy, cutting every corner they could. Not to mention nerfing the game to make it harder and harder until they finally decided to just go for creating more Expansions. Anyway, the whole idea of pay-to-play makes game devs antagonists to the players. They think of more and more ways to keep you from progressing, in order to keep you in the game longer. (So long as that end-game is always just out of your reach, you will work towards it... except you never get there because just before you do they add or nerf.

Guild Wars got people to stay forever with PVP (NOT because it was free), and this is what Pay-to-play games should be concentrating on. A way to keep players entertained instead of just endlessly grinding. I think these game devs think they have a winner on their hands, I mean LOTR will sell the game for them, and the role-playing aspect will be sure to keep hardcore fans for years to come, even when they all reach end-game and become bored. They probably won't even bother with the casual players, why design the game for them when they already have single-player LOTR games out.

Don't get me wrong, they are working to build a popular MMORPG and thus have to allow many types of players an enjoyable experience that will keep them playing for a while. I just think this game isn't going to be the game to sit on for the next several years.

Luccheno · September 2006

Well, in my opinion, the game should at first be f2p, like:

1st month: f2p everything;

2nd month: p2p for a certain amount of things;

3rd month: full p2p...

if not months, weeks, i mean, people should be able to check out the game before... besides, when it comes out it will have few stuff, so it shouldnt be p2p for at least a month after release, cause paying like 10€ for a game that still doesnt have much, is bad.......

However, i do think ppl should pay, but not necessarily 10-12€ but like 5 instead......... this way, many assholes wouldnt go in, and the demand for accounts would not be as big as with more expensive ones..... just an idea

PS: if not a time to free play, like 15 days of free trial (15 during school, 7 if in during holidays)

time4killing · September 2006

Thanks all for ur replys, they have been very useful for me!

Cheers

acidleak · September 2006

i have to say that paytoplay does not have advantages over f2p games. the easiest example i can think of is GW vs. WoW. GW i play irregularly once every 2 weeks or so. no development you say? no active content coming out? then why do i have to spend 5 min for a dl every 2 weeks? why is it that when i log on the character backgroud is different? why is it that new PvP maps are coming out? why is it that there is no server lag whatsoever?

compared to......

$15 down the drain every month.
laggy servers (in the case of WoW) and huge downtime every week
GMs that tell you most times that all is working as expected.
WoW = noobs concentrate, they still play the game, how much you pay doesnt make them go away, the game difficulty does.

so tell me again... is there a good sound reason for charging a monthly fee? no. its only extra money, which is obviously a good business model, but dont give me this crap that it improves the game, while others that dont have it dont improve their game.

Moirae · September 2006

acid, it's really obvious you don't understand how a business works and just don't want to pay the money.

Sanguinelust · September 2006

Originally posted by TheRedDread
Yes, Lord of the Rings Online will have a monthly fee, as to how much, expect it to be somewhere $12-$15 usd. That's the price range for most pay to play mmorpgs.

I'd say 15 is a good guess. Most new games and many old cost that much.

acidleak · September 2006

no i think i do understand, one i have to pay for, the other i dont, with the same service rendered, not a hard choice.

Moirae · September 2006

lol. No, it's not the same services rendered. You don't understand and thats the problem.

With a monthly fee, you get updates constantly (new quests, etc), fixes to bugs dailey, and (except in the case of Blizzard) new expansions fairly often. You also get active GM's, and better customer service.

I'd rather pay for the game than not when you don't get those things with games that don't have a fee.

Khalathwyr · September 2006

Originally posted by acidleak
i have to say that paytoplay does not have advantages over f2p games. the easiest example i can think of is GW vs. WoW. GW i play irregularly once every 2 weeks or so. no development you say? no active content coming out? then why do i have to spend 5 min for a dl every 2 weeks? why is it that when i log on the character backgroud is different? why is it that new PvP maps are coming out? why is it that there is no server lag whatsoever?

compared to......

$15 down the drain every month.
laggy servers (in the case of WoW) and huge downtime every week
GMs that tell you most times that all is working as expected.
WoW = noobs concentrate, they still play the game, how much you pay doesnt make them go away, the game difficulty does.

so tell me again... is there a good sound reason for charging a monthly fee? no. its only extra money, which is obviously a good business model, but dont give me this crap that it improves the game, while others that dont have it dont improve their game.

You can't seriously compare a new PvP map to the content patches of other games. A map is just...well, a map. Big deal. Other games give you the "map" in the form of dungeon (same thing) and add multiple dungeons at a time. Add to this the actual quests that they put in and, providing you have a good quest dev team, the daily bug fixes and updates (and not to mention with Turbine, in the past, they have given free monthly content updates instead of boxing it in an expansion) as Moirae mentioned, yeah. The good sound reason is you should research the cost in developing a MMORPG today and then realize that you also have to pay for bandwidth (What's GW subscription base again?) and salaries of the folks making this happen. I mean, how would you like to go to work and not get paid?

That and , sheesh, it's $15(US). You blow more than that of crap stuff each month that you don't even keep or that provides only momentary amusement where as a MMOG can provide entertainment 30/31 days a month. Course, you did say you only log in every 2 weeks, so I guess GW would be enough "content" for you.

acidleak · September 2006

heck im not saying that i dont pay to play, after all, this is a site for MMORPGs, one of the only game types that charge monthly, im just saying that the need doesnt seem to be there. all other game types are successful w/o a monthly fee. so its an absolute garbage claim that ppl would b going to work w/o pay. do all the RTS FPS company employees go to sleep hungry in a little box on the side of a street?

the only difference I see is that they need to maintain servers. youre telling me that it costs $15(US) X 3000+ ppl to upkeep a server?

also, about the GW player base, if they had more ppl, more ppl would buy their product, therefore they would make the same proportion of money, how would that affect their ability to give service?

and for the idea that you get more content when you pay, the companies arent guarunteeing anyone that new free content will be released

wow - no upgrades made except blizzard fixing their own mistakes
coh/cov - only upgrade i ever remember was adding 10 lvls really early on in the game
EQ - even the smallest of upgrades seemed to be through one of 20000 expansions
EQ2 - same company, same idea, only in fewer expansions

what game do you play that adds multiple dungeons?

and about the cost... im the consumer, if they deem it neccessary to charge a monthly fee, thats up to them, they are a company and i dont know of one thats not in it for profit, heck i know if they had a way to keep players paying theyd charge twice what they do.

but it still goes to show that if i find a game that has the same service or better for free why would i ever deem it neccessary to pay? im not a name brand shopper, i look for quality for the cheapest i can get it.

Khalathwyr · September 2006

Originally posted by acidleak
heck im not saying that i dont pay to play, after all, this is a site for MMORPGs, one of the only game types that charge monthly, im just saying that the need doesnt seem to be there. all other game types are successful w/o a monthly fee. so its an absolute garbage claim that ppl would b going to work w/o pay. do all the RTS FPS company employees go to sleep hungry in a little box on the side of a street?

There isn't an RTS FPS company that has a track record that compares to Turbine's record with monthly content addition when you look at AC1.

the only difference I see is that they need to maintain servers. youre telling me that it costs $15(US) X 3000+ ppl to upkeep a server?

Among other things. You do realize the more bandwith used the increase in the dollars needed to pay for it. Even if you don't realize it, the ISPs that the game companies use do, and they charge the game companies for it.

also, about the GW player base, if they had more ppl, more ppl would buy their product, therefore they would make the same proportion of money, how would that affect their ability to give service?

Just came from Hastings where I saw the latest PC Gamer magazine. It answered my question with GW hitting 2 million customers. I don't know, how would it affect their ability to give service. That wasn't my question, I just wanted to know what their subscription base was. Does GW add new dungeons each month? Have they added any significant content prior to this expansion they are launching? If so, what?

and for the idea that you get more content when you pay, the companies arent guarunteeing anyone that new free content will be released
True. Speaking about Turbine, they haven't guaranteed new monthly content. They have stated that they will give such content on 2-3 month intervals and no, you don't have to pay for it. In addition to that, they will have expansions as normal.

wow - no upgrades made except blizzard fixing their own mistakes
coh/cov - only upgrade i ever remember was adding 10 lvls really early on in the game
EQ - even the smallest of upgrades seemed to be through one of 20000 expansions
EQ2 - same company, same idea, only in fewer expansions

I'm personally not a fan of WoW or CoH/CoV. WoW took the basics from other games out there and did them well. That's good for them. Didn't impress me personally. CoH/CoV...the idea of plying superheroes didn't appeal to me. The onlything I liked from those games was the side-kick idea. I say this having never played the game(s). As for EQ/EQ2...I'm one of those people that hates $OE with a passion. No, I don't go off on swearing tirades like some other people, but if $OE headquarters burned to the ground, I'd find a beer real quick and raise a toast.

what game do you play that adds multiple dungeons?

Please excuse my choice of words. Sometimes I equate quests to dungeons. AC1 (Turbine) added quests, and not your whimpy quick quests, each month, and sometimes put in full fledged dungeons. I'm sure it's still somewhere on their AC1 site, but they posted an article that outlined over 50 some odd months (I think) they only had 1-2 months where they did not introduce world effecting content. The story of Dereth (the world in AC) took an evolving step each month and their events allowed the players to have say in the world. In one event, on all servers but one the good side won and a statue was erected to show that. On the one server where the players helped the evil side win, there is no statue.

and about the cost... im the consumer, if they deem it neccessary to charge a monthly fee, thats up to them, they are a company and i dont know of one thats not in it for profit, heck i know if they had a way to keep players paying theyd charge twice what they do.

That's the nature of business. Just about any entertainment you want you pay for. I'm sure you've heard this before, but it's no different than going to the movies. Well, other than each time you go to the movies you have to pay and when you factor in the food/drink you buy it's around $15. With a MMOG, you $15 once an month and can go as many times as you want and stay as long as you want.

but it still goes to show that if i find a game that has the same service or better for free why would i ever deem it neccessary to pay? im not a name brand shopper, i look for quality for the cheapest i can get it.

Hey, that money in your pocket is yours, and believe me when I say I'm not telling you how to spend it or even trying to convince you how. The fact remains, though, that Turbine has a record of providing periodic content and have stated that they want to do so with LOTRO. I've not read or heard of any F2P MMOG, which arguably GW is the biggest F2P MMOG, releasing content on that level. Especially when it costs money to develope that content. More content updates=more things to do=constant entertainment for me.

acidleak · September 2006

and now the big question....... what does this have to do with the thread? hehehe
note: i usually dont go on about monthly fees.... started my comments after a server crash heh. times like that where you wonder..... why do i pay these ppl?

Khalathwyr · September 2006

Meh, sometimes I get going and can't shut up.

I've been fortunate. Haven't had an outage since I've gotten my Fios. *knocks on wood*

time4killing · September 2006

YAY

i have made another hot topic thnx to all of you who have contributed to this discussion

Cheers!

Senbonzakura · October 2006

Originally posted by DeletedAcct

No, it is not free. Yes, it should be pay-to-play because free-to-play ruins games. A monthly fee keeps a lot of the asshats out.

AMEN! ^^

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