Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gorukha It is massive when it breaks a 500, happy ? There's your threshhold. Actually it's very simple, consider it massive when there is CAPABILITY to hold hundreds of players. It's about the capability the game provides. GW provides less capability than many other online games. Hell fps games offer bigger online play.
So you are saying EQ2 is not an MMORPG? Since it can't hold hundreds.
I am afraid it actually isn't simple. If you apply these rules to Guild Wars then what you are saying is that until Guild Wars changes into a raid game it won't be an MMORPG. This is wrong.
The reason Guild Wars is not an MMORPG is the mechanism by which two different people enter tha same instance. Ie. unless you are in the same party you do not go into the same instance.
That is the only major thing that separates it. It is an issue of gatekeeping. EQ2 cant hold hundreds of players on a server ? RU high ? The point of an mmorpg is that besides isntanced zones, which have their own rules, the world as a whole is accessible by hundreds of players. The lines are obviously being blurred as games include more and more instanced content like the upcoming Brad McQuaid sci fi mmorpg. If a game is 90% instanced and it allows a limited numbers of players in each instance I can't call that an mmorpg sorry.
MMORPG to me = big world, lots of players on same world living together. If a game is all instance except for a chat area, then it's a multiplayer on drugs not mmo.
It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
Originally posted by Gorukha Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gorukha It is massive when it breaks a 500, happy ? There's your threshhold. Actually it's very simple, consider it massive when there is CAPABILITY to hold hundreds of players. It's about the capability the game provides. GW provides less capability than many other online games. Hell fps games offer bigger online play.
So you are saying EQ2 is not an MMORPG? Since it can't hold hundreds.
I am afraid it actually isn't simple. If you apply these rules to Guild Wars then what you are saying is that until Guild Wars changes into a raid game it won't be an MMORPG. This is wrong.
The reason Guild Wars is not an MMORPG is the mechanism by which two different people enter tha same instance. Ie. unless you are in the same party you do not go into the same instance.
That is the only major thing that separates it. It is an issue of gatekeeping. EQ2 cant hold hundreds of players on a server ? RU high ? The point of an mmorpg is that besides isntanced zones, which have their own rules, the world as a whole is accessible by hundreds of players. The lines are obviously being blurred as games include more and more instanced content like the upcoming Brad McQuaid sci fi mmorpg. If a game is 90% instanced and it allows a limited numbers of players in each instance I can't call that an mmorpg sorry.
MMORPG to me = big world, lots of players on same world living together. If a game is all instance except for a chat area, then it's a multiplayer on drugs not mmo. Everything in EQ2 is an instance you can never have more than 100 people in any instance. By your way of thnking Guild Wars is actually more massive because everyone is on the same "server". The only fundamental difference in mechanics between the two is that I can follow people around to other instances without being in their party.
When one leaves the city and goes into Antonica there can sometimes be as many as 3 different clones of Antonica. None of those clones can ever have more than about 100 people no matter what "server" concurrent numbers happen to be at that time.
If Guild wars bumped up its PvE to 100 man raids then EQ2 and GW would be similar in everything except that GW would have far more clones of a far greater spread of populations, because the cloning and access to the clones is based off of party memebership not overflow numbers.
100 people can be considered massive in my eyes. But Everquest 2 is a hard case, I'll give you that. also worth mentioning is that EQ2's world(s) are all hosted on one server, where in GW, the players are hosting the game
Originally posted by Gameloading 100 people can be considered massive in my eyes. But Everquest 2 is a hard case, I'll give you that. also worth mentioning is that EQ2's world(s) are all hosted on one server, where in GW, the players are hosting the game
But even if GW did have PvE instance with 100 people there would still be a fundamental difference. I can wander around Antonica and meet people(palyers) I never knew were there. I cannot do that in Guild Wars.
The fact is the towns of Guild Wars work very similar to EQ2. But in order to capitalize on the difference in hosting and a different idea of how to interact with the world Anet opted for a difference in Gatekeeping.
The gatekeeping allows the instances to be cloned off for individual need and cloned off to different resources. EQ2 instances are generic and must be administered in a generic way and only handle spillover.
It is certainly not that far beyond belief that a Guild Wars type systems could handle isntances of even 50 people which is enough for me to consider it massive(ish).
But the real fundamental difference is the gatekeeping itself. It is a necessary mechanic for GW to be able to achieve its hosting paradigm. But it is also the mechanic that make it fundamentally different than otehr MMOs. It has an obvious and large difference on what it means to be in the "world". When I go into an instance solo, I know I am alone.
In the end it is not about size. The sizes of GW instances are a consequence of the dynamics of human pyschology and grouping mechanisms. The PvP instances go up to 24 people (12v12) this is the exact same max raid instance size of an EQ2 instance as well. These are not really technical limitations. Because goign into an instance in GW is the same as goging into a dungeon you will probably never see sizes larger than 24, because most people just don't really like that.
This is why I call Guild War a Cooperative ORPG. Because when one goes out into the world it is always as a team. That is all that exists in that world at that time you and whoever you went with. That is the point of the "world" in the game. All of the Guild Wars world outside of the town is a dungeon crawl. This is quite obvious when you think about it. Because unlike most MMO world you have to fight your way through every outside zone rather than just avoiding nasty mobs (unless you havea nice running build). The zones are all designed as dungeon crawls with patrols and hidden spawns etc.
But in EQ2 you can tool around some instance with possiblly 100 other people you never explicitly agreed to be in the instance with.
The fundamental difference is the philosophy of what the world is for and how you may access it. The numbers difference is merely a consequence of this.
Edit: An ancillary but somewhat unrealated point is the question of why solo in an MMORPG. Many raid proponents tell people to go play Oblivion or Counterstrike. They think the Massive part of MMO means that raids must of coruse be the penultimate but they are missing the above point of the how worlds themselves work. The mechanics of what other players may or may not be around is actually very important.
Guild Wars itself is a very funky case because it is in a limbo between full on MMOs and gaems like Counterstrike/NWN. Because when you go into an instance it is quite similar to NWN, yet its towns are essentially MMO and provide probably one the most flexibale and massive trading and interaction environments due to its serverlessness. Guild Wars is effectively a bit of both and winds up being a bit of a hybrid. And it can wind up functioning a bit like both. But with obvious differences. It shares the mission oriented gameplay of more locally hosted things, but it shares a massive social interaction environment too.
Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading 100 people can be considered massive in my eyes. But Everquest 2 is a hard case, I'll give you that. also worth mentioning is that EQ2's world(s) are all hosted on one server, where in GW, the players are hosting the game
But even if GW did have PvE instance with 100 people there would still be a fundamental difference. I can wander around Antonica and meet people(palyers) I never knew were there. I cannot do that in Guild Wars. Actually thats good thing, because players gather in these towns instead running around looking for people or worse when they need to run across map to some party, so it's very easy to get party for quests, missions or just explore in GW from just random players. I hardly ever interract with players who just are passing by in other mmos I have played.
Originally posted by leipuri Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading 100 people can be considered massive in my eyes. But Everquest 2 is a hard case, I'll give you that. also worth mentioning is that EQ2's world(s) are all hosted on one server, where in GW, the players are hosting the game
But even if GW did have PvE instance with 100 people there would still be a fundamental difference. I can wander around Antonica and meet people(palyers) I never knew were there. I cannot do that in Guild Wars. Actually thats good thing, because players gather in these towns instead running around looking for people or worse when they need to run across map to some party, so it's very easy to get party for quests, missions or just explore in GW from just random players. I hardly ever interract with players who just are passing by in other mmos I have played.
It may be a solely good thing or it may be one of those things taht is both good or bad. However it is certainly an important difference.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by neoteo max in a town in guildwars i eard is 100 max in pve is 12 max in pvp is 24
Town doesn't say anything, because your not really playing. but 24 is far too low to consider it an MMO. Since towns are the trading hubs how can you say its not part of the game? I am not certain it is wise to spearate the combat/world exploration from other social aspects.
Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by neoteo max in a town in guildwars i eard is 100 max in pve is 12 max in pvp is 24
Town doesn't say anything, because your not really playing. but 24 is far too low to consider it an MMO. Since towns are the trading hubs how can you say its not part of the game? I am not certain it is wise to spearate the combat/world exploration from other social aspects. Because, unless you are using the town as a graphical chatroom, you will spend VERY little time in towns. its really nothing more then an impressive grouping spot. Trading won't take long in towns, as the game has zero economy. it would be silly to consider GW an MMORPG just because you spend a few minutes of your total gameplay time in towns that CAN hold up to a few hundred people.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by neoteo max in a town in guildwars i eard is 100 max in pve is 12 max in pvp is 24
Town doesn't say anything, because your not really playing. but 24 is far too low to consider it an MMO. Since towns are the trading hubs how can you say its not part of the game? I am not certain it is wise to spearate the combat/world exploration from other social aspects. Because, unless you are using the town as a graphical chatroom, you will spend VERY little time in towns. its really nothing more then an impressive grouping spot. Trading won't take long in towns, as the game has zero economy. it would be silly to consider GW an MMORPG just because you spend a few minutes of your total gameplay time in towns that CAN hold up to a few hundred people. I think you underestimate how much trading goes on.
Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by neoteo max in a town in guildwars i eard is 100 max in pve is 12 max in pvp is 24
Town doesn't say anything, because your not really playing. but 24 is far too low to consider it an MMO. Since towns are the trading hubs how can you say its not part of the game? I am not certain it is wise to spearate the combat/world exploration from other social aspects. Because, unless you are using the town as a graphical chatroom, you will spend VERY little time in towns. its really nothing more then an impressive grouping spot. Trading won't take long in towns, as the game has zero economy. it would be silly to consider GW an MMORPG just because you spend a few minutes of your total gameplay time in towns that CAN hold up to a few hundred people. I think you underestimate how much trading goes on.
he underestimate everything , his gw acount was the most waste of gw acount ever , i can say for sure , he is the number one guildwars noob.
he didnt pass presearing ascalon and now he think he can talk about the game.
Originally posted by neoteo Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by neoteomax in a town in guildwars i eard is 100 max in pve is 12 max in pvp is 24
Town doesn't say anything, because your not really playing. but 24 is far too low to consider it an MMO. Since towns are the trading hubs how can you say its not part of the game? I am not certain it is wise to spearate the combat/world exploration from other social aspects. Because, unless you are using the town as a graphical chatroom, you will spend VERY little time in towns. its really nothing more then an impressive grouping spot. Trading won't take long in towns, as the game has zero economy. it would be silly to consider GW an MMORPG just because you spend a few minutes of your total gameplay time in towns that CAN hold up to a few hundred people. I think you underestimate how much trading goes on.
he underestimate everything , his gw acount was the most waste of gw acount ever , i can say for sure , he is the number one guildwars noob.
he didnt pass presearing ascalon and now he think he can talk about the game.
and lets be honnest with each other, you and I both know the only reason you say I am, "the number one guildwars noob" is because I don't agree with your silly "GW is an MMORPG" statement. but facts are facts neoteo, no matter how much you want to change it. the DEVELOPERS of Guild Wars themself have stated that GW is NOT an MMORPG. fact.
Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by neoteo max in a town in guildwars i eard is 100 max in pve is 12 max in pvp is 24
Town doesn't say anything, because your not really playing. but 24 is far too low to consider it an MMO. Since towns are the trading hubs how can you say its not part of the game? I am not certain it is wise to spearate the combat/world exploration from other social aspects. Because, unless you are using the town as a graphical chatroom, you will spend VERY little time in towns. its really nothing more then an impressive grouping spot. Trading won't take long in towns, as the game has zero economy. it would be silly to consider GW an MMORPG just because you spend a few minutes of your total gameplay time in towns that CAN hold up to a few hundred people. I think you underestimate how much trading goes on. Hardly. Up to level 20, No trading is needed,And if you do want to trade, you can find a good deal in less then a minute. besides,. you can beat the game with the starter weapon if you want to. the only trading there is is at the cap level (lvl 20) to get your equipment.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by neoteo max in a town in guildwars i eard is 100 max in pve is 12 max in pvp is 24
Town doesn't say anything, because your not really playing. but 24 is far too low to consider it an MMO. Since towns are the trading hubs how can you say its not part of the game? I am not certain it is wise to spearate the combat/world exploration from other social aspects. Because, unless you are using the town as a graphical chatroom, you will spend VERY little time in towns. its really nothing more then an impressive grouping spot. Trading won't take long in towns, as the game has zero economy. it would be silly to consider GW an MMORPG just because you spend a few minutes of your total gameplay time in towns that CAN hold up to a few hundred people. I think you underestimate how much trading goes on. Hardly. Up to level 20, No trading is needed,And if you do want to trade, you can find a good deal in less then a minute. besides,. you can beat the game with the starter weapon if you want to. the only trading there is is at the cap level (lvl 20) to get your equipment. I do not persoanlly engage in much trading and yes you can do all the things you mention. But judging by all the stuff I see on channels and all the auctions on Guild Wars Guru and various other things, it does seem to be a fairly major activity of many people.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by neoteo Originally posted by gestalt11Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by neoteomax in a town in guildwars i eard is 100 max in pve is 12 max in pvp is 24
Town doesn't say anything, because your not really playing. but 24 is far too low to consider it an MMO. Since towns are the trading hubs how can you say its not part of the game? I am not certain it is wise to spearate the combat/world exploration from other social aspects. Because, unless you are using the town as a graphical chatroom, you will spend VERY little time in towns. its really nothing more then an impressive grouping spot. Trading won't take long in towns, as the game has zero economy. it would be silly to consider GW an MMORPG just because you spend a few minutes of your total gameplay time in towns that CAN hold up to a few hundred people. I think you underestimate how much trading goes on.
he underestimate everything , his gw acount was the most waste of gw acount ever , i can say for sure , he is the number one guildwars noob.
he didnt pass presearing ascalon and now he think he can talk about the game.
and lets be honnest with each other, you and I both know the only reason you say I am, "the number one guildwars noob" is because I don't agree with your silly "GW is an MMORPG" statement. but facts are facts neoteo, no matter how much you want to change it. the DEVELOPERS of Guild Wars themself have stated that GW is NOT an MMORPG. fact.
this is the reason you dont have a clue of whats going on in guildwars , your main argument is that anet said it.
they said it becose they dont need the label to be a good and popular game.
the truth is , its a game where millions of people can join and play , that is massive online gaming.
you just know what you read , you dont talk by experience
i say you are a noob , for that reason , closed minded that dont want to chance is position.
who cares if its a MMORPGFXTZK ... its massive and its online and its role playing
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by neoteo max in a town in guildwars i eard is 100 max in pve is 12 max in pvp is 24
Town doesn't say anything, because your not really playing. but 24 is far too low to consider it an MMO. Since towns are the trading hubs how can you say its not part of the game? I am not certain it is wise to spearate the combat/world exploration from other social aspects. Because, unless you are using the town as a graphical chatroom, you will spend VERY little time in towns. its really nothing more then an impressive grouping spot. Trading won't take long in towns, as the game has zero economy. it would be silly to consider GW an MMORPG just because you spend a few minutes of your total gameplay time in towns that CAN hold up to a few hundred people. I think you underestimate how much trading goes on. Hardly. Up to level 20, No trading is needed,And if you do want to trade, you can find a good deal in less then a minute. besides,. you can beat the game with the starter weapon if you want to. the only trading there is is at the cap level (lvl 20) to get your equipment.
OMG lol
Hardly. Up to level 20, No trading is needed,And if you do want to trade, you can find a good deal in less then a minute. besides
NOT TRUE - if you want a good deal , takes ages , people actualy would like to have a AH since day 1
you can beat the game with the starter weapon if you want to. the only trading there is is at the cap level (lvl 20) to get your equipment.
LOL , there is no beat the game , thats a newb term , the game doesnt end in hells percipice , or any other 50 k exp quest , like every good mmo should be , guildwars does not have a end.
Originally posted by neoteo Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by neoteo Originally posted by gestalt11Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by neoteomax in a town in guildwars i eard is 100 max in pve is 12 max in pvp is 24
Town doesn't say anything, because your not really playing. but 24 is far too low to consider it an MMO. Since towns are the trading hubs how can you say its not part of the game? I am not certain it is wise to spearate the combat/world exploration from other social aspects. Because, unless you are using the town as a graphical chatroom, you will spend VERY little time in towns. its really nothing more then an impressive grouping spot. Trading won't take long in towns, as the game has zero economy. it would be silly to consider GW an MMORPG just because you spend a few minutes of your total gameplay time in towns that CAN hold up to a few hundred people. I think you underestimate how much trading goes on.
he underestimate everything , his gw acount was the most waste of gw acount ever , i can say for sure , he is the number one guildwars noob.
he didnt pass presearing ascalon and now he think he can talk about the game.
and lets be honnest with each other, you and I both know the only reason you say I am, "the number one guildwars noob" is because I don't agree with your silly "GW is an MMORPG" statement. but facts are facts neoteo, no matter how much you want to change it. the DEVELOPERS of Guild Wars themself have stated that GW is NOT an MMORPG. fact.
this is the reason you dont have a clue of whats going on in guildwars , your main argument is that anet said it.
they said it becose they dont need the label to be a good and popular game.
the truth is , its a game where millions of people can join and play , that is massive online gaming.
you just know what you read , you dont talk by experience
i say you are a noob , for that reason , closed minded that dont want to chance is position.
who cares if its a MMORPGFXTZK ... its massive and its online and its role playing
Its not Massive, stop making things up. You can NOT play with a massive amount of people at the same time. it doesn't matter if you can play with people all over the world. as long as you can't play with a massive amount of people AT THE SAME TIME. it is NOT an MMORPG. By your standards, Counterstrike is an mmorpg, Diablo is an mmorpg, neverwinternights is an mmorpg, every shooter ever released is an mmorpg.
stop acting like a clueless fanboi. its not an MMORPG. FACT.
Originally posted by neoteo Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by neoteomax in a town in guildwars i eard is 100 max in pve is 12 max in pvp is 24
Town doesn't say anything, because your not really playing. but 24 is far too low to consider it an MMO. Since towns are the trading hubs how can you say its not part of the game? I am not certain it is wise to spearate the combat/world exploration from other social aspects. Because, unless you are using the town as a graphical chatroom, you will spend VERY little time in towns. its really nothing more then an impressive grouping spot. Trading won't take long in towns, as the game has zero economy. it would be silly to consider GW an MMORPG just because you spend a few minutes of your total gameplay time in towns that CAN hold up to a few hundred people. I think you underestimate how much trading goes on. Hardly. Up to level 20, No trading is needed,And if you do want to trade, you can find a good deal in less then a minute. besides,. you can beat the game with the starter weapon if you want to. the only trading there is is at the cap level (lvl 20) to get your equipment.
OMG lol
Hardly. Up to level 20, No trading is needed,And if you do want to trade, you can find a good deal in less then a minute. besides
NOT TRUE - if you want a good deal , takes ages , people actualy would like to have a AH since day 1
you can beat the game with the starter weapon if you want to. the only trading there is is at the cap level (lvl 20) to get your equipment.
LOL , there is no beat the game , thats a newb term , the game doesnt end in hells percipice , or any other 50 k exp quest , like every good mmo should be , guildwars does not have a end.
Actually there is an end. as soon as you went trough all the PVE missions and other PVE content, all thats left to do is PVP. most people consider that an end.
also, you don't need a "Good deal", since you can get trough the PVE content with close to any weapon.It took me over 2 minutes MAX to find a weapon in those 3 trades I made (3 trades in 180 hours of gametime, proves how sad the economy of GW is). you don't even need to find equipment untill your level 20, as you can just stick to collecters. you can buy a weapon if you want, but its not necisary. the game is too easy for that.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by neoteo Originally posted by GameloadingOriginally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by gestalt11 Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by neoteomax in a town in guildwars i eard is 100 max in pve is 12 max in pvp is 24
Town doesn't say anything, because your not really playing. but 24 is far too low to consider it an MMO. Since towns are the trading hubs how can you say its not part of the game? I am not certain it is wise to spearate the combat/world exploration from other social aspects. Because, unless you are using the town as a graphical chatroom, you will spend VERY little time in towns. its really nothing more then an impressive grouping spot. Trading won't take long in towns, as the game has zero economy. it would be silly to consider GW an MMORPG just because you spend a few minutes of your total gameplay time in towns that CAN hold up to a few hundred people. I think you underestimate how much trading goes on. Hardly. Up to level 20, No trading is needed,And if you do want to trade, you can find a good deal in less then a minute. besides,. you can beat the game with the starter weapon if you want to. the only trading there is is at the cap level (lvl 20) to get your equipment.
OMG lol
Hardly. Up to level 20, No trading is needed,And if you do want to trade, you can find a good deal in less then a minute. besides
NOT TRUE - if you want a good deal , takes ages , people actualy would like to have a AH since day 1
you can beat the game with the starter weapon if you want to. the only trading there is is at the cap level (lvl 20) to get your equipment.
LOL , there is no beat the game , thats a newb term , the game doesnt end in hells percipice , or any other 50 k exp quest , like every good mmo should be , guildwars does not have a end.
Actually there is an end. as soon as you went trough all the PVE missions and other PVE content, all thats left to do is PVP. most people consider that an end.
also, you don't need a "Good deal", since you can get trough the PVE content with close to any weapon.It took me over 2 minutes MAX to find a weapon in those 3 trades I made (3 trades in 180 hours of gametime, proves how sad the economy of GW is). you don't even need to find equipment untill your level 20, as you can just stick to collecters. you can buy a weapon if you want, but its not necisary. the game is too easy for that.
Comments
I am afraid it actually isn't simple. If you apply these rules to Guild Wars then what you are saying is that until Guild Wars changes into a raid game it won't be an MMORPG. This is wrong.
The reason Guild Wars is not an MMORPG is the mechanism by which two different people enter tha same instance. Ie. unless you are in the same party you do not go into the same instance.
That is the only major thing that separates it. It is an issue of gatekeeping.
EQ2 cant hold hundreds of players on a server ? RU high ? The point of an mmorpg is that besides isntanced zones, which have their own rules, the world as a whole is accessible by hundreds of players. The lines are obviously being blurred as games include more and more instanced content like the upcoming Brad McQuaid sci fi mmorpg. If a game is 90% instanced and it allows a limited numbers of players in each instance I can't call that an mmorpg sorry.
MMORPG to me = big world, lots of players on same world living together. If a game is all instance except for a chat area, then it's a multiplayer on drugs not mmo.
It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
I am afraid it actually isn't simple. If you apply these rules to Guild Wars then what you are saying is that until Guild Wars changes into a raid game it won't be an MMORPG. This is wrong.
The reason Guild Wars is not an MMORPG is the mechanism by which two different people enter tha same instance. Ie. unless you are in the same party you do not go into the same instance.
That is the only major thing that separates it. It is an issue of gatekeeping.
EQ2 cant hold hundreds of players on a server ? RU high ? The point of an mmorpg is that besides isntanced zones, which have their own rules, the world as a whole is accessible by hundreds of players. The lines are obviously being blurred as games include more and more instanced content like the upcoming Brad McQuaid sci fi mmorpg. If a game is 90% instanced and it allows a limited numbers of players in each instance I can't call that an mmorpg sorry.
MMORPG to me = big world, lots of players on same world living together. If a game is all instance except for a chat area, then it's a multiplayer on drugs not mmo.
Everything in EQ2 is an instance you can never have more than 100 people in any instance. By your way of thnking Guild Wars is actually more massive because everyone is on the same "server". The only fundamental difference in mechanics between the two is that I can follow people around to other instances without being in their party.
When one leaves the city and goes into Antonica there can sometimes be as many as 3 different clones of Antonica. None of those clones can ever have more than about 100 people no matter what "server" concurrent numbers happen to be at that time.
If Guild wars bumped up its PvE to 100 man raids then EQ2 and GW would be similar in everything except that GW would have far more clones of a far greater spread of populations, because the cloning and access to the clones is based off of party memebership not overflow numbers.
The fact is the towns of Guild Wars work very similar to EQ2. But in order to capitalize on the difference in hosting and a different idea of how to interact with the world Anet opted for a difference in Gatekeeping.
The gatekeeping allows the instances to be cloned off for individual need and cloned off to different resources. EQ2 instances are generic and must be administered in a generic way and only handle spillover.
It is certainly not that far beyond belief that a Guild Wars type systems could handle isntances of even 50 people which is enough for me to consider it massive(ish).
But the real fundamental difference is the gatekeeping itself. It is a necessary mechanic for GW to be able to achieve its hosting paradigm. But it is also the mechanic that make it fundamentally different than otehr MMOs. It has an obvious and large difference on what it means to be in the "world". When I go into an instance solo, I know I am alone.
In the end it is not about size. The sizes of GW instances are a consequence of the dynamics of human pyschology and grouping mechanisms. The PvP instances go up to 24 people (12v12) this is the exact same max raid instance size of an EQ2 instance as well. These are not really technical limitations. Because goign into an instance in GW is the same as goging into a dungeon you will probably never see sizes larger than 24, because most people just don't really like that.
This is why I call Guild War a Cooperative ORPG. Because when one goes out into the world it is always as a team. That is all that exists in that world at that time you and whoever you went with. That is the point of the "world" in the game. All of the Guild Wars world outside of the town is a dungeon crawl. This is quite obvious when you think about it. Because unlike most MMO world you have to fight your way through every outside zone rather than just avoiding nasty mobs (unless you havea nice running build). The zones are all designed as dungeon crawls with patrols and hidden spawns etc.
But in EQ2 you can tool around some instance with possiblly 100 other people you never explicitly agreed to be in the instance with.
The fundamental difference is the philosophy of what the world is for and how you may access it. The numbers difference is merely a consequence of this.
Edit:
An ancillary but somewhat unrealated point is the question of why solo in an MMORPG. Many raid proponents tell people to go play Oblivion or Counterstrike. They think the Massive part of MMO means that raids must of coruse be the penultimate but they are missing the above point of the how worlds themselves work. The mechanics of what other players may or may not be around is actually very important.
Guild Wars itself is a very funky case because it is in a limbo between full on MMOs and gaems like Counterstrike/NWN. Because when you go into an instance it is quite similar to NWN, yet its towns are essentially MMO and provide probably one the most flexibale and massive trading and interaction environments due to its serverlessness. Guild Wars is effectively a bit of both and winds up being a bit of a hybrid. And it can wind up functioning a bit like both. But with obvious differences. It shares the mission oriented gameplay of more locally hosted things, but it shares a massive social interaction environment too.
95.5% of your poll (at time of this post) says it all! GW!
Actually thats good thing, because players gather in these towns instead running around looking for people or worse when they need to run across map to some party, so it's very easy to get party for quests, missions or just explore in GW from just random players. I hardly ever interract with players who just are passing by in other mmos I have played.
max in a town in guildwars i eard is 100
max in pve is 12
max in pvp is 24
Guild - http://lightness.goodforum.net/
Blog - http://www.pierrecarlier.com/
Go check out Rappelz. It is really good and I'm really picky. http://rappelz.gpotato.com/
i~ku~ra
Actually thats good thing, because players gather in these towns instead running around looking for people or worse when they need to run across map to some party, so it's very easy to get party for quests, missions or just explore in GW from just random players. I hardly ever interract with players who just are passing by in other mmos I have played.
It may be a solely good thing or it may be one of those things taht is both good or bad. However it is certainly an important difference.
Since towns are the trading hubs how can you say its not part of the game? I am not certain it is wise to spearate the combat/world exploration from other social aspects.
Since towns are the trading hubs how can you say its not part of the game? I am not certain it is wise to spearate the combat/world exploration from other social aspects.
Because, unless you are using the town as a graphical chatroom, you will spend VERY little time in towns. its really nothing more then an impressive grouping spot. Trading won't take long in towns, as the game has zero economy. it would be silly to consider GW an MMORPG just because you spend a few minutes of your total gameplay time in towns that CAN hold up to a few hundred people.
Since towns are the trading hubs how can you say its not part of the game? I am not certain it is wise to spearate the combat/world exploration from other social aspects.
Because, unless you are using the town as a graphical chatroom, you will spend VERY little time in towns. its really nothing more then an impressive grouping spot. Trading won't take long in towns, as the game has zero economy. it would be silly to consider GW an MMORPG just because you spend a few minutes of your total gameplay time in towns that CAN hold up to a few hundred people.
I think you underestimate how much trading goes on.
Since towns are the trading hubs how can you say its not part of the game? I am not certain it is wise to spearate the combat/world exploration from other social aspects.
Because, unless you are using the town as a graphical chatroom, you will spend VERY little time in towns. its really nothing more then an impressive grouping spot. Trading won't take long in towns, as the game has zero economy. it would be silly to consider GW an MMORPG just because you spend a few minutes of your total gameplay time in towns that CAN hold up to a few hundred people.
I think you underestimate how much trading goes on.
he underestimate everything , his gw acount was the most waste of gw acount ever , i can say for sure , he is the number one guildwars noob.
he didnt pass presearing ascalon and now he think he can talk about the game.
btw , heros ascend is now 6 vs 6
map with 4 teams , 4 * 6 = 24
allience battles = 3*4 vs 3*4 = 24
elite mission = 12 vs mobs
Guild - http://lightness.goodforum.net/
Blog - http://www.pierrecarlier.com/
Since towns are the trading hubs how can you say its not part of the game? I am not certain it is wise to spearate the combat/world exploration from other social aspects.
Because, unless you are using the town as a graphical chatroom, you will spend VERY little time in towns. its really nothing more then an impressive grouping spot. Trading won't take long in towns, as the game has zero economy. it would be silly to consider GW an MMORPG just because you spend a few minutes of your total gameplay time in towns that CAN hold up to a few hundred people.
I think you underestimate how much trading goes on.
he underestimate everything , his gw acount was the most waste of gw acount ever , i can say for sure , he is the number one guildwars noob.
he didnt pass presearing ascalon and now he think he can talk about the game.
btw , heros ascend is now 6 vs 6
map with 4 teams , 4 * 6 = 24
allience battles = 3*4 vs 3*4 = 24
elite mission = 12 vs mobs
Here is my Xfire account,
http://www.xfire.com/profile/gameloading
go figure.
and lets be honnest with each other, you and I both know the only reason you say I am, "the number one guildwars noob" is because I don't agree with your silly "GW is an MMORPG" statement. but facts are facts neoteo, no matter how much you want to change it. the DEVELOPERS of Guild Wars themself have stated that GW is NOT an MMORPG. fact.
Since towns are the trading hubs how can you say its not part of the game? I am not certain it is wise to spearate the combat/world exploration from other social aspects.
Because, unless you are using the town as a graphical chatroom, you will spend VERY little time in towns. its really nothing more then an impressive grouping spot. Trading won't take long in towns, as the game has zero economy. it would be silly to consider GW an MMORPG just because you spend a few minutes of your total gameplay time in towns that CAN hold up to a few hundred people.
I think you underestimate how much trading goes on.
Hardly. Up to level 20, No trading is needed,And if you do want to trade, you can find a good deal in less then a minute. besides,. you can beat the game with the starter weapon if you want to. the only trading there is is at the cap level (lvl 20) to get your equipment.
Since towns are the trading hubs how can you say its not part of the game? I am not certain it is wise to spearate the combat/world exploration from other social aspects.
Because, unless you are using the town as a graphical chatroom, you will spend VERY little time in towns. its really nothing more then an impressive grouping spot. Trading won't take long in towns, as the game has zero economy. it would be silly to consider GW an MMORPG just because you spend a few minutes of your total gameplay time in towns that CAN hold up to a few hundred people.
I think you underestimate how much trading goes on.
Hardly. Up to level 20, No trading is needed,And if you do want to trade, you can find a good deal in less then a minute. besides,. you can beat the game with the starter weapon if you want to. the only trading there is is at the cap level (lvl 20) to get your equipment.
I do not persoanlly engage in much trading and yes you can do all the things you mention. But judging by all the stuff I see on channels and all the auctions on Guild Wars Guru and various other things, it does seem to be a fairly major activity of many people.
Since towns are the trading hubs how can you say its not part of the game? I am not certain it is wise to spearate the combat/world exploration from other social aspects.
Because, unless you are using the town as a graphical chatroom, you will spend VERY little time in towns. its really nothing more then an impressive grouping spot. Trading won't take long in towns, as the game has zero economy. it would be silly to consider GW an MMORPG just because you spend a few minutes of your total gameplay time in towns that CAN hold up to a few hundred people.
I think you underestimate how much trading goes on.
he underestimate everything , his gw acount was the most waste of gw acount ever , i can say for sure , he is the number one guildwars noob.
he didnt pass presearing ascalon and now he think he can talk about the game.
btw , heros ascend is now 6 vs 6
map with 4 teams , 4 * 6 = 24
allience battles = 3*4 vs 3*4 = 24
elite mission = 12 vs mobs
Here is my Xfire account,
http://www.xfire.com/profile/gameloading
go figure.
and lets be honnest with each other, you and I both know the only reason you say I am, "the number one guildwars noob" is because I don't agree with your silly "GW is an MMORPG" statement. but facts are facts neoteo, no matter how much you want to change it. the DEVELOPERS of Guild Wars themself have stated that GW is NOT an MMORPG. fact.
this is the reason you dont have a clue of whats going on in guildwars , your main argument is that anet said it.
they said it becose they dont need the label to be a good and popular game.
the truth is , its a game where millions of people can join and play , that is massive online gaming.
you just know what you read , you dont talk by experience
i say you are a noob , for that reason , closed minded that dont want to chance is position.
who cares if its a MMORPGFXTZK ... its massive and its online and its role playing
Guild - http://lightness.goodforum.net/
Blog - http://www.pierrecarlier.com/
Since towns are the trading hubs how can you say its not part of the game? I am not certain it is wise to spearate the combat/world exploration from other social aspects.
Because, unless you are using the town as a graphical chatroom, you will spend VERY little time in towns. its really nothing more then an impressive grouping spot. Trading won't take long in towns, as the game has zero economy. it would be silly to consider GW an MMORPG just because you spend a few minutes of your total gameplay time in towns that CAN hold up to a few hundred people.
I think you underestimate how much trading goes on.
Hardly. Up to level 20, No trading is needed,And if you do want to trade, you can find a good deal in less then a minute. besides,. you can beat the game with the starter weapon if you want to. the only trading there is is at the cap level (lvl 20) to get your equipment.
OMG lol
Hardly. Up to level 20, No trading is needed,And if you do want to trade, you can find a good deal in less then a minute. besides
NOT TRUE - if you want a good deal , takes ages , people actualy would like to have a AH since day 1
you can beat the game with the starter weapon if you want to. the only trading there is is at the cap level (lvl 20) to get your equipment.
LOL , there is no beat the game , thats a newb term , the game doesnt end in hells percipice , or any other 50 k exp quest , like every good mmo should be , guildwars does not have a end.
Guild - http://lightness.goodforum.net/
Blog - http://www.pierrecarlier.com/
Since towns are the trading hubs how can you say its not part of the game? I am not certain it is wise to spearate the combat/world exploration from other social aspects.
Because, unless you are using the town as a graphical chatroom, you will spend VERY little time in towns. its really nothing more then an impressive grouping spot. Trading won't take long in towns, as the game has zero economy. it would be silly to consider GW an MMORPG just because you spend a few minutes of your total gameplay time in towns that CAN hold up to a few hundred people.
I think you underestimate how much trading goes on.
he underestimate everything , his gw acount was the most waste of gw acount ever , i can say for sure , he is the number one guildwars noob.
he didnt pass presearing ascalon and now he think he can talk about the game.
btw , heros ascend is now 6 vs 6
map with 4 teams , 4 * 6 = 24
allience battles = 3*4 vs 3*4 = 24
elite mission = 12 vs mobs
Here is my Xfire account,
http://www.xfire.com/profile/gameloading
go figure.
and lets be honnest with each other, you and I both know the only reason you say I am, "the number one guildwars noob" is because I don't agree with your silly "GW is an MMORPG" statement. but facts are facts neoteo, no matter how much you want to change it. the DEVELOPERS of Guild Wars themself have stated that GW is NOT an MMORPG. fact.
this is the reason you dont have a clue of whats going on in guildwars , your main argument is that anet said it.
they said it becose they dont need the label to be a good and popular game.
the truth is , its a game where millions of people can join and play , that is massive online gaming.
you just know what you read , you dont talk by experience
i say you are a noob , for that reason , closed minded that dont want to chance is position.
who cares if its a MMORPGFXTZK ... its massive and its online and its role playing
Its not Massive, stop making things up. You can NOT play with a massive amount of people at the same time. it doesn't matter if you can play with people all over the world. as long as you can't play with a massive amount of people AT THE SAME TIME. it is NOT an MMORPG. By your standards, Counterstrike is an mmorpg, Diablo is an mmorpg, neverwinternights is an mmorpg, every shooter ever released is an mmorpg.
stop acting like a clueless fanboi. its not an MMORPG. FACT.
Since towns are the trading hubs how can you say its not part of the game? I am not certain it is wise to spearate the combat/world exploration from other social aspects.
Because, unless you are using the town as a graphical chatroom, you will spend VERY little time in towns. its really nothing more then an impressive grouping spot. Trading won't take long in towns, as the game has zero economy. it would be silly to consider GW an MMORPG just because you spend a few minutes of your total gameplay time in towns that CAN hold up to a few hundred people.
I think you underestimate how much trading goes on.
Hardly. Up to level 20, No trading is needed,And if you do want to trade, you can find a good deal in less then a minute. besides,. you can beat the game with the starter weapon if you want to. the only trading there is is at the cap level (lvl 20) to get your equipment.
OMG lol
Hardly. Up to level 20, No trading is needed,And if you do want to trade, you can find a good deal in less then a minute. besides
NOT TRUE - if you want a good deal , takes ages , people actualy would like to have a AH since day 1
you can beat the game with the starter weapon if you want to. the only trading there is is at the cap level (lvl 20) to get your equipment.
LOL , there is no beat the game , thats a newb term , the game doesnt end in hells percipice , or any other 50 k exp quest , like every good mmo should be , guildwars does not have a end.
Actually there is an end. as soon as you went trough all the PVE missions and other PVE content, all thats left to do is PVP. most people consider that an end.
also, you don't need a "Good deal", since you can get trough the PVE content with close to any weapon.It took me over 2 minutes MAX to find a weapon in those 3 trades I made (3 trades in 180 hours of gametime, proves how sad the economy of GW is). you don't even need to find equipment untill your level 20, as you can just stick to collecters. you can buy a weapon if you want, but its not necisary. the game is too easy for that.
Oh, how I love fanbois...
Since towns are the trading hubs how can you say its not part of the game? I am not certain it is wise to spearate the combat/world exploration from other social aspects.
Because, unless you are using the town as a graphical chatroom, you will spend VERY little time in towns. its really nothing more then an impressive grouping spot. Trading won't take long in towns, as the game has zero economy. it would be silly to consider GW an MMORPG just because you spend a few minutes of your total gameplay time in towns that CAN hold up to a few hundred people.
I think you underestimate how much trading goes on.
Hardly. Up to level 20, No trading is needed,And if you do want to trade, you can find a good deal in less then a minute. besides,. you can beat the game with the starter weapon if you want to. the only trading there is is at the cap level (lvl 20) to get your equipment.
OMG lol
Hardly. Up to level 20, No trading is needed,And if you do want to trade, you can find a good deal in less then a minute. besides
NOT TRUE - if you want a good deal , takes ages , people actualy would like to have a AH since day 1
you can beat the game with the starter weapon if you want to. the only trading there is is at the cap level (lvl 20) to get your equipment.
LOL , there is no beat the game , thats a newb term , the game doesnt end in hells percipice , or any other 50 k exp quest , like every good mmo should be , guildwars does not have a end.
Actually there is an end. as soon as you went trough all the PVE missions and other PVE content, all thats left to do is PVP. most people consider that an end.
also, you don't need a "Good deal", since you can get trough the PVE content with close to any weapon.It took me over 2 minutes MAX to find a weapon in those 3 trades I made (3 trades in 180 hours of gametime, proves how sad the economy of GW is). you don't even need to find equipment untill your level 20, as you can just stick to collecters. you can buy a weapon if you want, but its not necisary. the game is too easy for that.
Oh, how I love fanbois...
lol , you are hopeless
Guild - http://lightness.goodforum.net/
Blog - http://www.pierrecarlier.com/