Myself dont like what soe did to swg, but this is beginning to get silly, its a freaking game lol, get over it and enjoy life insted of all the negative things, myself droped the soe hate stuff,, i used alot of time to reach jedi, and bang game dead, it was enoying....... for a while... over it now
Great post about vanguard tho, cant wait to play it, and do RP
Hello all -- first thanks for the coverage MMORPG.COM! Was great to have you by and show you the game.
To everyone else, thanks for all of the comments and questions. Recently I and others posted a lot of Vanguard info in the Vanguard forums -- please check them out.
I also just recently updated a thread on our official sites where the first post has become sort of a master "I'm new to Vanguard and want to find out information about the game" post. It's got it all, and like I said, I just updated it to make it more readable and more comprehensive.
We've also been working on a general introduction to the game -- please give it a read and let us know what you think:
-----
Hello Everyone!
Been having fun in WoW or another MMOG, but looking for something new, something deeper?
Are you an old school MMOG player looking for a game that will wrap yesterdays magic into a next-gen package?
Might you be new to massively multiplayer gaming (or online interactive entertainment as its beginning to be called) and looking for the game that will be right for you?
If any of these descriptions sound like you, Id like to cordially invite you to check out the next big massively multiplayer game coming your way the first quarter of 2007
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
Many MMOG players may already know about Vanguard and are looking forward to launch, or the opportunity to play in beta. Many of these people, especially long time gamers, are already active in our community and avidly looking forward to the game. These folks already know what they want out of Vanguard, and they believe that we at Sigil will deliver.
But there are some people who dont realize that Vanguard may be the perfect game for them. Theyre the people who are enjoying one of the current MMOs, but are ready for something deeper and more challenging. Or theyre folks whove heard of Vanguard but are misinformed about the game due to some of the rumors floating around. If either one of those circumstances is the case, I want to take the time to introduce you to Vanguard, and provide some resources for accurate information. Weve made an effort to get the word out about Vanguard, whether through interacting with people on message boards, or releasing series of screenshots and in-game videos, or doing interviews for print and Web publications. Now Id like to invite you to check out this information. Of course we cant make a game thats all things to all players (and really, whod want to), but it might surprise you to learn that Vanguard could be the game for someone like you.
And neither do we want to make a game thats a copy or clone of a popular game thats already out there--players want choices, and meaningful ones at that. And now we want to help you make an informed choice about what massively multiplayer game youll be spending your time playing early next year, because how you spend your time is important, especially in a virtual world. Youre not just spending time, youre investing time, both in your characters and in the relationships you form in-game. Some people may not understand online interactive entertainment and still think of MMOGs as just games, but while those guys play catch-up, we know theyre really so much more: theyre online communities, and these people we game with are real whether they live across the street or in another country. And not only are they real, theyre our friends. These games, the good ones anyway, arent just games, theyre homes.
So no matter who you are, we want to reach out to you and pique your interest in Vanguard because we are confident it's going to change the face of massively multiplayer online gaming next year, and the year after that, and well, you get the picture--were in this for the long haul. Our aim, quite simply, is to offer an alternative to an online gaming genre that is dominated by a few very large and quite excellent games right now (Final Fantasy XI and World of Warcraft come to mind). Why? Because life is about choices, and thats especially true when it comes to entertainment.
And Vanguard itself is about choices, too. Its about freedom of choice. It contains content and quests and adventures for all sorts of people: casual players, core players, and even those who spend a lot of time in these games raiding in large groups. We're all about making a world that is inclusive, not exclusive. Vanguard offers a freedom that players have never before experienced--you have a wide variety of races and classes to choose from, unparalleled capability to customize your character, and multiple ways of advancing your character, be it through traditional adventuring, or an exciting system of harvesting and crafting, or a brand new spin on gameplay called diplomacy, where you use your wits and not your sword to decide the outcome of events and make your mark on the world.
And on top of all of this, the world itself is so immersive its mind-blowing. Telon, the world in which Vanguard takes place, awaits all sorts of people who want to be part of a living, breathing, virtual environment, in which you can own your own house, ride or sail a ship anywhere as far as you can see, and even one day fly through the clouds on the back of a dragon, a winged horse, or any number of mythical creatures to the destination of your choice. There are virtually no limitations in Vanguard--you get what you put into it and so much more. The world of Telon takes the massive in MMOG and cranks it up to eleven. But it's not just big for the sake of being big; it's full of variety and laid out in a seamless environment where if you can see an interesting location miles away in the distance--a dungeon or a castle, or really anything interesting at all--you can always get there. Exploration has been missing in some games as of late, but travel in Vanguard has meaning.
But we didnt stop there either; we expanded upon the traditional high fantasy we all love and included not just one continent with familiar Western European, Tolkien-esque and Arthurian settings, but also another continent that draws from the tales of the Arabian Nights, full of pyramids, hanging gardens, and hidden jungles filled with exotic intrigue...virtually the entirety of Persian, Egyptian, and other middle eastern mythology. And then we went nuts and didn't stop there either; theres a third continent, this time with an Oriental twist, which forms a vast archipelago of islands. Picture yourself as a thief or a ninja or a merchant or pirate, sailing from one isle to the next, discovering new lands and even lost empires swallowed whole long ago by the sea.
I've given you but a taste of whats in store for you the first quarter of 2007, but I promise you there's *so* much more...far, far too much to cover here. Id have to write thousands of pages of history and lore and background and settings. Id have to design detailed game mechanics and systems that build upon every bit of our experience making these games and then goes even farther into the next generation of online gaming. Ah, but wait! Our team of over 100 people have already done just that and built all of it into this game, and theyve been pouring their hearts and souls into it for over four years (not to mention those who worked on games like EverQuest, who have been dreaming about a virtual world like this for over a decade)! In fact, weve planned so much that youre not only going to have all of this to experience soon, but after the game launches we have both live and expansion teams ready to add new content to the game; content that has, to a great degree, already been planned out so we know what Vanguard will look like and offer not just in 2007, but for more than seven years to come.
So how do you find out more? The heck with design documents and quest scripts and all of the art and data that makes an MMOG tick thats what we work with in-house at Sigil. Instead, check out our web sites and other resources, with more and more information being revealed virtually every day. Head to www.joinvanguard.com and find out more about the game as well as www.vanguardsoh.com where there are movies, screenshots, a detailed FAQ to answer your many questions about the game, and a very active message board community with well over 100,000 members. Find out what opportunities there will be to get into beta at some point. Read what people are saying about the game. Check out the screenshots and the videos. And dont just read the boards, participate and ask us questions. Yeah, we developers are really there, with many of us using one screen to work on the game and another to interact with YOU to make sure were making the game YOU want to play.
So what are you waiting for?
-Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
Original Producer & Co-Designer, EverQuest
--
-------------------------------------------------------------- Brad McQuaid CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc. www.pantheonmmo.com --------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Aradune Its about freedom of choice-There are virtually no limitations in Vanguard- So what are you waiting for? Youre not just spending time, youre investing time, both in your characters and in the relationships you form in-game
-Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Original Producer & Co-Designer, EverQuest
I am still waiting for you or another staff member to answer my question regarding self sufficient soloing crafting.
You might want to explain your philosophy on investment of time to SOE as they seem to disregard that concept.
PS. I like your quote, it's similar in meaning to mine. How do you feel about gold selling and websites that promote it?
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it." Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc. Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes www.vanguardsoh
Wasn't the original EQ suppose to only be influenced by Verant, with SOE only being the financial support? What makes this setup any different? Have you people not learned your lessons yet with this whole business model? It has been proven with every MMO game out there that the financiers always end up having a say on how the game develops, sooner or later it happens to every single one of them.
I don't care how casual friendly he says the game can be, it is hardcore and its raid focused. All of the best rewards, yet again fall to the raiders and no-lifers. He tried to explain his reward system and couldn't even do that without stumbling on his own words utnil he had to finally admit that raiders and no-lifers would always get the best of everything. For him or his company to say there is something in this game for every play style is an insult. If they say this game would appeal to original EQ players, then that's all I need to know on how they treat their non-raiding player base.
I wish I could say the best of luck to them, but its hard to do so when there is the possibility that if they have a huge success, the whole genre willl go back to the model that only supports raiders and no-lifers and screw any other play style. Even WoW is adopting this kind of philosophy at their end game where its raid or die. I'm sick to death of this paradigm and I'm sick to death of developers that not only support it, but revel in its eliticism.
I will not be a happy gamer till the day they truly come out with a casual friendly game that actually rewards casual game play with the best rewards the game has to offer. A game that caters to the time limited over that of the no-lifers. These are games, where everyone has to pay the same subscription price and yet are not given equal representation in these games, its time for this unfair business model to change.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Originally posted by ShiloFields Thank you very much for asking the SOE question. I am one of those former SWG players that decided not to buy the game because of SOE's involvement. It was really sad actually, almost all of our guild was looking forward to reuniting in Vanguard, however, once the SOE/Sigil partnership was annouced, our interest in the game dissappeared over night. For me personally, Sigils assurances that SOE won't be making any design decisions, even if I believed it, simply isn't enough. By subscribing to Vanguard I would be paying SOE some of my subscription dollars. Because of SOE's conduct with regard SWG, I am not going to do business with them, even if that means not playing a game I would otherwise have loved. As for Sigils assurances, while I believe them that is the current argreement. However, that doesn't mean it will always be that way. Since getting burned by SOE in SWG, if there is any significant reason not to trust the developer, I am simply not going to take the risk of what happened in SWG (years worth of effort erased overnight) happening again. Even Sigils's in house lawyer concedded that wouldnt' rule out selling Vanguard to SOE in a few years. It really is unfortunate as I think I really would have enjoyed playing Vanguard. I guess it wasn't meant to be. I would wish you luck, but since sucess for Vanguard means sucess for SOE, I can't do that either.
I can certainly understand the SWG/SOE connection is a deal breaker to many folks. I myself only played SWG for a short while, so I don't have the same problem. But I was a bit bitter at SOE about what they did to EQ2, in which I invested a year and a half of my time.
However, the lure of Vanguard made me think long and hard about just how "ticked off" at SOE I really was. What I realized was is this: Life is too short to hold a grudge. What I want is to be able to play the most promising MMORPG on the horizon, and that game is Vanguard! By not "paying SOE some of my subscription dollars" I am only hurting myself, certainly not SOE. Not only that, the first time SOE messes with the design of Vanguard, then I will withdraw my $ and go elsewhere. But until that happens, I am going to be having a BLAST playing a great game.
So again, yes, I understand your anger at SOE. But I also feel bad for you, because you won't get to experience Vanguard:Saga of Heros!
Originally posted by Vrazule will not be a happy gamer till the day they truly come out with a casual friendly game that actually rewards casual game play with the best rewards the game has to offer. A game that caters to the time limited over that of the no-lifers. These are games, where everyone has to pay the same subscription price and yet are not given equal representation in these games, its time for this unfair business model to change.
Go look at Guildwars. It does not have deepness of EQ or Wow Or whichever game you see on market, but its advantage is that you can reach almost everything in with few friends. There are no raids, there are no time sink quests, there are no spawn campings...
This game is nice one, you do have your fun, advance pretty fast, and most of the missions and quests are done with cutscenes and nice story behind it.
Originally posted by Sahale So again, yes, I understand your anger at SOE. But I also feel bad for you, because you won't get to experience Vanguard:Saga of Heros!
I feel bad for me too. lol. I really would like to play. Even more so because its a hardcore game. The MMO market, including SWG, has gone way too casual.
But there isn't much point in having principles if you disregard them when they are inconvenient. I made the decision that I wouldn't do business with SOE or its parent company Sony for that matter following what NGE, until they admit what they did wrong and righted their wrong. They obviously haven't done that.
MMOs are about effort = reward mechanisms. If you don't trust the developer honor that investment, why invest the amount of time necessary to get the reward. And if you don't try to acheive things in a MMO like Vanguard, why play? With SOE involved, I don't trust Vanguard to honor my investmet of time in the long run.
I don't want an MMO to play MMOs for 4 months or 6 months even a year. I want a MMO to play indefinitely. Prior to the NGE, i fully expected to be playing it until they turned off the servers. Personally, I don't trust any game that SOE is involved with the honor in game acheivement for that long of a period of time. Heck, even post NGE, they have invalidated players that obtaining faction rank. They are starting all over with a new system. Say goodbye to that Colonel faction rank you earned. So you can't even make the argument that SOE has changed their ways following the NGE, they are still doing it. Why in the world should I think they won't do it in Vanguard?
So even, if I were will to set aside my comittment to not buy Sony products or services, I am not going to take the risk that a year or two years into Vanguard that SOE will push Sigil to change the game to make it more casual (or whatever segment of the market SOE covets at the time) friendly, at the expense of things I have acheived in game.
Remember the golden rule. Whoever has the gold makes the rules. I think it is extremely naive to believe that SOE will have no influence on Vanguard's ongoing design.
For a variety of possible reasons, every MMO you sign up to and invest your hard work into is a risk. It may change tomorrow. It may be ruined by players, the publisher, or infrastructure vendors. It may be sold or closed or ruined by legislation. There is a lot of risk in life. The involvement by SOE is a small part of the risks involved, IMHO.
You decide not to invest any more in MMOG. That's a valid possible choice in life. That's not my choice though.
You can choose to be bitter about being burned by SOE in the past. You can call it a statement of principal and it might well be. You can only choose to try a new guy with a pristine record (although that has even more risk, IMHO.)
Those of you who have never worked to build a game like this do know all the incredible details and tradeoffs necessary. They are extremely complex to design, build, operate, and collect revenue from. And the customer gets fussier and more discriminating and more heterogenous every year. Sometimes there are no perfect options and you have to take the best you can find. I'm not going to let that stop me from playing a great game.
It's like love. Somes you love and get burned but it was usually better than never having loved.
Guild Wars would have been perfect if it had only been a persistant world, that offered other things than just combat. Everything is instanced and the skill deck system is too limiting for my taste.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Originally posted by Vrazule ... Everything is instanced and the skill deck system is too limiting for my taste.
Yes thats true. But i prefer to play "too casual" MMOG than too "time sink tedious" MMOG. I do have RL life, and because of it i stopped playing EQ. Well i have 2 years of SWG behind me and i loved it... but since this "i play shooter" nge upgrade, i got urge to leave.
Anyway, back to Vanguard. There is valid point saying that SOE may not change. And yes, SOE is just Co-Publisher, but what if SOE is not happy with player numbers, what if Vanguard goes the way of other "time sink" and/or "not so good quality" MMOGs (anyone remember Dark & Light, Horizons, Asherons Call, etc. and ultimatelly SWG), and they push sigil to make (put here your favorite "not so broken" part of the game) upgrade of Vanguard.
I will look into it, but i know already i won't have that time to keep up with friends. I wish Vanguard everything best, and i wish them more than million subscriptions, but i think we will see history repeating. Why? All companies have just one thing they love. Customer? No, money. Let me list some of them: EA... Blizzard... Sigil... and (pick your favorite company), also SOE which is extreme example.
Ah, sorry about rant...
G.
EDIT: Maybe I'm wrong about all this, and maybe i'm wrong about "time sink" situation. But i think i'll have to wait till i get my hands on it, be it in beta or waitiing till it shows up next year.
Originally posted by Carneros Every MMO has risk. All of them.
That's the problem. They want to sell us a gamble, not a game.
...And the only thing that will make them sell us games again is to not buy their gambles.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Originally posted by Carneros Every MMO has risk. All of them. For a variety of possible reasons, every MMO you sign up to and invest your hard work into is a risk. It may change tomorrow. It may be ruined by players, the publisher, or infrastructure vendors. It may be sold or closed or ruined by legislation. There is a lot of risk in life. The involvement by SOE is a small part of the risks involved, IMHO. You decide not to invest any more in MMOG. That's a valid possible choice in life. That's not my choice though. You can choose to be bitter about being burned by SOE in the past. You can call it a statement of principal and it might well be. You can only choose to try a new guy with a pristine record (although that has even more risk, IMHO.) Those of you who have never worked to build a game like this do know all the incredible details and tradeoffs necessary. They are extremely complex to design, build, operate, and collect revenue from. And the customer gets fussier and more discriminating and more heterogenous every year. Sometimes there are no perfect options and you have to take the best you can find. I'm not going to let that stop me from playing a great game. It's like love. Somes you love and get burned but it was usually better than never having loved.
Good post. I guess I should clarify. I certainly understand there is risk in any MMO, if for no other reason than eventually, all MMOs will shut down the servers. That might happen sooner that I am ready for. That's inherent in the business. I can live with that. I can also live with the risks that minor changes might make one aspect of the game slightly more desireable than it was previously. What I am not willing to live with is the risk that the Developer will act abritary and capricously with regard to the fundametal effort=reward mecahnisms of the game, as SOE did with the NGE.
So if there is anything that suggests they might do that, either in past corporate behavior or statements they have made, its not worth the risk.
for those that will never ever play the game, here are a few plug ins to help out if this one happens to hit the street running:
1. It's not my account, it's my little brother Rufio's
2. soe isn't sony it's "son of everquest"
3. I said i'd never buy it, my girlfriend got if for me!
4. Add your own here
As I said before, if it's good lots gamers will play it, if it's very good most all gamers will play it. I swore off women when my girlfriend in high school dumped me, it lasted till the next really good one came along:). No need to tell me again you just won't play no matter what, but don't dig a hole too deep bro, I might enjoy pking you:)
Originally posted by Vallenar I agree with the above post. This game seems to be leaning towards the power gamer and not the causal gamer. I can already see the dedicated fans scooping up all the valuable real estate and selling it for huge amounts of cash. I hope I make it into the demo to check it out because it does sound cool. The diplomacy, flying mounts, ships, this game seems to have it all. I just hope I am proven wrong on the power game part.
My question to you is: Ever since WoW, why does every MMO that comes out have to cater to the casual gamer?
Maybe that's because till WoW, every single MMO has been catering to the hardcore market, not just in gameplay mechanics, but in the reward system and the quality of content. Raiders and no-lifers have always gotten the best of everything. Even WoW changes to hardcore at the endgame with absolutely nothing to offer the casual, solo type players.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
yes yes, we all know SoE sucks because they trashed SWG. Remember this, tho...SoE was/is very very good at one thing...delivery. Very little to no downtime is a major feat.
It kills me that the same people who complain about SWG getting dumbed down are ALREADY complaining that Vanguard MIGHT be "too much like work". Excuse me, but we're all sposed to be hating SoE for taking a deep, rich game and ripping out the complexity....you can't have it both ways.
Go to vanguardsoh.com and read the bios of those involved, you'll find to your amazement that Sigil has a few artists/devs who are former SoE people, who in fact worked on the SWG project. Why did they leave SoE? Because they HATE SoE for screwing over SWG!
Bottom line, SoE will only deliver, Sigil has a deathgrip on content, and they're VERY aware of how SoE can screw up content. They say if you lie down with dogs you get fleas, but in this case I'm confident Sigil has lots of flea spray...and a short leash for SoE.
Originally posted by Gamerholic yes yes, we all know SoE sucks because they trashed SWG. Remember this, tho...SoE was/is very very good at one thing...delivery. Very little to no downtime is a major feat. It kills me that the same people who complain about SWG getting dumbed down are ALREADY complaining that Vanguard MIGHT be "too much like work". Excuse me, but we're all sposed to be hating SoE for taking a deep, rich game and ripping out the complexity....you can't have it both ways. Go to vanguardsoh.com and read the bios of those involved, you'll find to your amazement that Sigil has a few artists/devs who are former SoE people, who in fact worked on the SWG project. Why did they leave SoE? Because they HATE SoE for screwing over SWG! Bottom line, SoE will only deliver, Sigil has a deathgrip on content, and they're VERY aware of how SoE can screw up content. They say if you lie down with dogs you get fleas, but in this case I'm confident Sigil has lots of flea spray...and a short leash for SoE. Nuff said, I'm buying it.
You're missing the point, at least for many of us. Not all of us are simply upset that SOE changed the game, leaving it at that. For most of us, it's about principle, and the fact that SOE has crossed far too many lines to ever justify giving them another dime, directly or indirectly. I'm sure you'll enjoy the game, and I feel pretty confident that Sigil will do a good job keeping SOE at arms length in terms of development. But the fact remains, for every dollar you spend on this game, somewhere between 10 and 20 cents (my blind guesstimate) will end up in SOE's pocket. If you can deal with that, that's obviously your prerogative. Me, I'm doing everything in my power to keep my money out of SOE's bank accounts.
SOE cheesed off the wrong market segment. The game they originally designed wasn't for the ADHD crowd. Most of us who loved pre-CU are mature adults with at least somewhat limited entertainment budgets, and we do not forget so easily when a company wrongs us. If the change had been the other way, from a "game for dummies" to something challenging and intelligent, their old customers would have probably forgotten all about it in six months. That's not what happened, and SOE will be paying for their decisions for a long time to come.
To be very very very honest here. your comments, all of you, are sooo long!
i get what you're trying to say, with SOE wronging you and all, but i haven't played swg or what it was .
though, i have more than enough braincontent to know what you're saying, this game looks very promising and i don't think all people at SOE are bad. Just think about the people who make coffee , or organize the paperwork
Although as an ex-SWG player I do understand some of the views here, I am sorry to see this topic degenerate into yet another SOE hate thread. Despite my anger regarding the NGE and other SOE actions, I believe Sigil's reasoning in making the move they made. Staying with Microsoft would have been a horrible choice and would have damaged the game far more than any SOE hatred will.
Anyway! I for one will be buying this game and judging it on its own merits. If somewhere down the line I don't like how things are going, I will move on. Like I did with SWG, and a few others. Thanks for the great article and I look forward to future commentaries regarding the staff's beta experience
Wow, alot of you people are so silly...."I'm not going to buy this game cause SoE is involved...etc etc.." do any of you REALLY think that your decision to not buy this product is going to have ANY impact on a multi-billion dollar company as Sony???? Give me a break, we all will be dead and gone before Sony goes down. Seriously our childrens children will still be playing Sony games StarTrek Style in 2100...and beyond.
As for the casual gamer whinners, screw you! there is enough casual gamer crap out there for you to play for ever. I want a HARD hard-core game to play for once and I hope this is it.
Originally posted by Aramodin Wow, alot of you people are so silly...."I'm not going to buy this game cause SoE is involved...etc etc.." do any of you REALLY think that your decision to not buy this product is going to have ANY impact on a multi-billion dollar company as Sony???? Give me a break, we all will be dead and gone before Sony goes down. Seriously our childrens children will still be playing Sony games StarTrek Style in 2100...and beyond. As for the casual gamer whinners, screw you! there is enough casual gamer crap out there for you to play for ever. I want a HARD hard-core game to play for once and I hope this is it.
The former SWG players have proven that when gamers collectively refuse to patronize a game, it does make a difference and SOE is paying for it across the board, not just with SWG. Most of the former SWG players are refusing to buy other SOE games and Sony products in general. Many gamers who never played a SOE game are avoiding them after reading about how shabbily the SWG players were treated. Anyone with common sense would not put themselves in a position to be screwed over like that.
I also want a HARD hard-core game to play, and I know Vanguard won't be it because it's a raiding centric game. It's a misconception to think raiding is hardcore when soloing can be much more challenging, relying on one's own skills and abilities rather than riding the tailcoats of others.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it." Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc. Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes www.vanguardsoh
Comments
11 accounts? Hmmmm, sound to me like a community manager for a hyppies center!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Myself dont like what soe did to swg, but this is beginning to get silly, its a freaking game lol, get over it and enjoy life insted of all the negative things, myself droped the soe hate stuff,, i used alot of time to reach jedi, and bang game dead, it was enoying....... for a while... over it now
Great post about vanguard tho, cant wait to play it, and do RP
Hello all -- first thanks for the coverage MMORPG.COM! Was great to have you by and show you the game.
To everyone else, thanks for all of the comments and questions. Recently I and others posted a lot of Vanguard info in the Vanguard forums -- please check them out.
I also just recently updated a thread on our official sites where the first post has become sort of a master "I'm new to Vanguard and want to find out information about the game" post. It's got it all, and like I said, I just updated it to make it more readable and more comprehensive.
Please check it out at http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71778
thanks!
We've also been working on a general introduction to the game -- please give it a read and let us know what you think:
-----
Hello Everyone!
If any of these descriptions sound like you, Id like to cordially invite you to check out the next big massively multiplayer game coming your way the first quarter of 2007
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
Many MMOG players may already know about Vanguard and are looking forward to launch, or the opportunity to play in beta. Many of these people, especially long time gamers, are already active in our community and avidly looking forward to the game. These folks already know what they want out of Vanguard, and they believe that we at Sigil will deliver.
But there are some people who dont realize that Vanguard may be the perfect game for them. Theyre the people who are enjoying one of the current MMOs, but are ready for something deeper and more challenging. Or theyre folks whove heard of Vanguard but are misinformed about the game due to some of the rumors floating around. If either one of those circumstances is the case, I want to take the time to introduce you to Vanguard, and provide some resources for accurate information. Weve made an effort to get the word out about Vanguard, whether through interacting with people on message boards, or releasing series of screenshots and in-game videos, or doing interviews for print and Web publications. Now Id like to invite you to check out this information. Of course we cant make a game thats all things to all players (and really, whod want to), but it might surprise you to learn that Vanguard could be the game for someone like you.
And neither do we want to make a game thats a copy or clone of a popular game thats already out there--players want choices, and meaningful ones at that. And now we want to help you make an informed choice about what massively multiplayer game youll be spending your time playing early next year, because how you spend your time is important, especially in a virtual world. Youre not just spending time, youre investing time, both in your characters and in the relationships you form in-game. Some people may not understand online interactive entertainment and still think of MMOGs as just games, but while those guys play catch-up, we know theyre really so much more: theyre online communities, and these people we game with are real whether they live across the street or in another country. And not only are they real, theyre our friends. These games, the good ones anyway, arent just games, theyre homes.
So no matter who you are, we want to reach out to you and pique your interest in Vanguard because we are confident it's going to change the face of massively multiplayer online gaming next year, and the year after that, and well, you get the picture--were in this for the long haul. Our aim, quite simply, is to offer an alternative to an online gaming genre that is dominated by a few very large and quite excellent games right now (Final Fantasy XI and World of Warcraft come to mind). Why? Because life is about choices, and thats especially true when it comes to entertainment.
And Vanguard itself is about choices, too. Its about freedom of choice. It contains content and quests and adventures for all sorts of people: casual players, core players, and even those who spend a lot of time in these games raiding in large groups. We're all about making a world that is inclusive, not exclusive. Vanguard offers a freedom that players have never before experienced--you have a wide variety of races and classes to choose from, unparalleled capability to customize your character, and multiple ways of advancing your character, be it through traditional adventuring, or an exciting system of harvesting and crafting, or a brand new spin on gameplay called diplomacy, where you use your wits and not your sword to decide the outcome of events and make your mark on the world.
And on top of all of this, the world itself is so immersive its mind-blowing. Telon, the world in which Vanguard takes place, awaits all sorts of people who want to be part of a living, breathing, virtual environment, in which you can own your own house, ride or sail a ship anywhere as far as you can see, and even one day fly through the clouds on the back of a dragon, a winged horse, or any number of mythical creatures to the destination of your choice. There are virtually no limitations in Vanguard--you get what you put into it and so much more. The world of Telon takes the massive in MMOG and cranks it up to eleven. But it's not just big for the sake of being big; it's full of variety and laid out in a seamless environment where if you can see an interesting location miles away in the distance--a dungeon or a castle, or really anything interesting at all--you can always get there. Exploration has been missing in some games as of late, but travel in Vanguard has meaning.
But we didnt stop there either; we expanded upon the traditional high fantasy we all love and included not just one continent with familiar Western European, Tolkien-esque and Arthurian settings, but also another continent that draws from the tales of the Arabian Nights, full of pyramids, hanging gardens, and hidden jungles filled with exotic intrigue...virtually the entirety of Persian, Egyptian, and other middle eastern mythology. And then we went nuts and didn't stop there either; theres a third continent, this time with an Oriental twist, which forms a vast archipelago of islands. Picture yourself as a thief or a ninja or a merchant or pirate, sailing from one isle to the next, discovering new lands and even lost empires swallowed whole long ago by the sea.
I've given you but a taste of whats in store for you the first quarter of 2007, but I promise you there's *so* much more...far, far too much to cover here. Id have to write thousands of pages of history and lore and background and settings. Id have to design detailed game mechanics and systems that build upon every bit of our experience making these games and then goes even farther into the next generation of online gaming. Ah, but wait! Our team of over 100 people have already done just that and built all of it into this game, and theyve been pouring their hearts and souls into it for over four years (not to mention those who worked on games like EverQuest, who have been dreaming about a virtual world like this for over a decade)! In fact, weve planned so much that youre not only going to have all of this to experience soon, but after the game launches we have both live and expansion teams ready to add new content to the game; content that has, to a great degree, already been planned out so we know what Vanguard will look like and offer not just in 2007, but for more than seven years to come.
So how do you find out more? The heck with design documents and quest scripts and all of the art and data that makes an MMOG tick thats what we work with in-house at Sigil. Instead, check out our web sites and other resources, with more and more information being revealed virtually every day. Head to www.joinvanguard.com and find out more about the game as well as www.vanguardsoh.com where there are movies, screenshots, a detailed FAQ to answer your many questions about the game, and a very active message board community with well over 100,000 members. Find out what opportunities there will be to get into beta at some point. Read what people are saying about the game. Check out the screenshots and the videos. And dont just read the boards, participate and ask us questions. Yeah, we developers are really there, with many of us using one screen to work on the game and another to interact with YOU to make sure were making the game YOU want to play.
So what are you waiting for?
-Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
Original Producer & Co-Designer, EverQuest
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Brad McQuaid
CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
www.pantheonmmo.com
--------------------------------------------------------------
I am still waiting for you or another staff member to answer my question regarding self sufficient soloing crafting.
http://mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/95513/page/17
You might want to explain your philosophy on investment of time to SOE as they seem to disregard that concept.
PS. I like your quote, it's similar in meaning to mine. How do you feel about gold selling and websites that promote it?
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
It is pathos we lack, and this lack of pathos makes the worlds we explore quite stale.
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/Antioche
Wasn't the original EQ suppose to only be influenced by Verant, with SOE only being the financial support? What makes this setup any different? Have you people not learned your lessons yet with this whole business model? It has been proven with every MMO game out there that the financiers always end up having a say on how the game develops, sooner or later it happens to every single one of them.
I don't care how casual friendly he says the game can be, it is hardcore and its raid focused. All of the best rewards, yet again fall to the raiders and no-lifers. He tried to explain his reward system and couldn't even do that without stumbling on his own words utnil he had to finally admit that raiders and no-lifers would always get the best of everything. For him or his company to say there is something in this game for every play style is an insult. If they say this game would appeal to original EQ players, then that's all I need to know on how they treat their non-raiding player base.
I wish I could say the best of luck to them, but its hard to do so when there is the possibility that if they have a huge success, the whole genre willl go back to the model that only supports raiders and no-lifers and screw any other play style. Even WoW is adopting this kind of philosophy at their end game where its raid or die. I'm sick to death of this paradigm and I'm sick to death of developers that not only support it, but revel in its eliticism.
I will not be a happy gamer till the day they truly come out with a casual friendly game that actually rewards casual game play with the best rewards the game has to offer. A game that caters to the time limited over that of the no-lifers. These are games, where everyone has to pay the same subscription price and yet are not given equal representation in these games, its time for this unfair business model to change.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
I can certainly understand the SWG/SOE connection is a deal breaker to many folks. I myself only played SWG for a short while, so I don't have the same problem. But I was a bit bitter at SOE about what they did to EQ2, in which I invested a year and a half of my time.
However, the lure of Vanguard made me think long and hard about just how "ticked off" at SOE I really was. What I realized was is this: Life is too short to hold a grudge. What I want is to be able to play the most promising MMORPG on the horizon, and that game is Vanguard! By not "paying SOE some of my subscription dollars" I am only hurting myself, certainly not SOE. Not only that, the first time SOE messes with the design of Vanguard, then I will withdraw my $ and go elsewhere. But until that happens, I am going to be having a BLAST playing a great game.
So again, yes, I understand your anger at SOE. But I also feel bad for you, because you won't get to experience Vanguard:Saga of Heros!
Go look at Guildwars. It does not have deepness of EQ or Wow Or whichever game you see on market, but its advantage is that you can reach almost everything in with few friends. There are no raids, there are no time sink quests, there are no spawn campings...
This game is nice one, you do have your fun, advance pretty fast, and most of the missions and quests are done with cutscenes and nice story behind it.
I really have fun with it
G.
I feel bad for me too. lol. I really would like to play. Even more so because its a hardcore game. The MMO market, including SWG, has gone way too casual.
But there isn't much point in having principles if you disregard them when they are inconvenient. I made the decision that I wouldn't do business with SOE or its parent company Sony for that matter following what NGE, until they admit what they did wrong and righted their wrong. They obviously haven't done that.
MMOs are about effort = reward mechanisms. If you don't trust the developer honor that investment, why invest the amount of time necessary to get the reward. And if you don't try to acheive things in a MMO like Vanguard, why play? With SOE involved, I don't trust Vanguard to honor my investmet of time in the long run.
I don't want an MMO to play MMOs for 4 months or 6 months even a year. I want a MMO to play indefinitely. Prior to the NGE, i fully expected to be playing it until they turned off the servers. Personally, I don't trust any game that SOE is involved with the honor in game acheivement for that long of a period of time. Heck, even post NGE, they have invalidated players that obtaining faction rank. They are starting all over with a new system. Say goodbye to that Colonel faction rank you earned. So you can't even make the argument that SOE has changed their ways following the NGE, they are still doing it. Why in the world should I think they won't do it in Vanguard?
So even, if I were will to set aside my comittment to not buy Sony products or services, I am not going to take the risk that a year or two years into Vanguard that SOE will push Sigil to change the game to make it more casual (or whatever segment of the market SOE covets at the time) friendly, at the expense of things I have acheived in game.
Remember the golden rule. Whoever has the gold makes the rules. I think it is extremely naive to believe that SOE will have no influence on Vanguard's ongoing design.
Every MMO has risk. All of them.
For a variety of possible reasons, every MMO you sign up to and invest your hard work into is a risk. It may change tomorrow. It may be ruined by players, the publisher, or infrastructure vendors. It may be sold or closed or ruined by legislation. There is a lot of risk in life. The involvement by SOE is a small part of the risks involved, IMHO.
You decide not to invest any more in MMOG. That's a valid possible choice in life. That's not my choice though.
You can choose to be bitter about being burned by SOE in the past. You can call it a statement of principal and it might well be. You can only choose to try a new guy with a pristine record (although that has even more risk, IMHO.)
Those of you who have never worked to build a game like this do know all the incredible details and tradeoffs necessary. They are extremely complex to design, build, operate, and collect revenue from. And the customer gets fussier and more discriminating and more heterogenous every year. Sometimes there are no perfect options and you have to take the best you can find. I'm not going to let that stop me from playing a great game.
It's like love. Somes you love and get burned but it was usually better than never having loved.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Yes thats true. But i prefer to play "too casual" MMOG than too "time sink tedious" MMOG. I do have RL life, and because of it i stopped playing EQ. Well i have 2 years of SWG behind me and i loved it... but since this "i play shooter" nge upgrade, i got urge to leave.
Anyway, back to Vanguard. There is valid point saying that SOE may not change. And yes, SOE is just Co-Publisher, but what if SOE is not happy with player numbers, what if Vanguard goes the way of other "time sink" and/or "not so good quality" MMOGs (anyone remember Dark & Light, Horizons, Asherons Call, etc. and ultimatelly SWG), and they push sigil to make (put here your favorite "not so broken" part of the game) upgrade of Vanguard.
I will look into it, but i know already i won't have that time to keep up with friends. I wish Vanguard everything best, and i wish them more than million subscriptions, but i think we will see history repeating. Why? All companies have just one thing they love. Customer? No, money. Let me list some of them: EA... Blizzard... Sigil... and (pick your favorite company), also SOE which is extreme example.
Ah, sorry about rant...
G.
EDIT: Maybe I'm wrong about all this, and maybe i'm wrong about "time sink" situation. But i think i'll have to wait till i get my hands on it, be it in beta or waitiing till it shows up next year.
That's the problem. They want to sell us a gamble, not a game.
...And the only thing that will make them sell us games again is to not buy their gambles.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Good post. I guess I should clarify. I certainly understand there is risk in any MMO, if for no other reason than eventually, all MMOs will shut down the servers. That might happen sooner that I am ready for. That's inherent in the business. I can live with that. I can also live with the risks that minor changes might make one aspect of the game slightly more desireable than it was previously. What I am not willing to live with is the risk that the Developer will act abritary and capricously with regard to the fundametal effort=reward mecahnisms of the game, as SOE did with the NGE.
So if there is anything that suggests they might do that, either in past corporate behavior or statements they have made, its not worth the risk.
1. It's not my account, it's my little brother Rufio's
2. soe isn't sony it's "son of everquest"
3. I said i'd never buy it, my girlfriend got if for me!
4. Add your own here
As I said before, if it's good lots gamers will play it, if it's very
good most all gamers will play it. I swore off women when my
girlfriend in high school dumped me, it lasted till the next really
good one came along:). No need to tell me again you just won't play no
matter what, but don't dig a hole too deep bro, I might enjoy pking
you:)
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
yes yes, we all know SoE sucks because they trashed SWG. Remember this, tho...SoE was/is very very good at one thing...delivery. Very little to no downtime is a major feat.
It kills me that the same people who complain about SWG getting dumbed down are ALREADY complaining that Vanguard MIGHT be "too much like work". Excuse me, but we're all sposed to be hating SoE for taking a deep, rich game and ripping out the complexity....you can't have it both ways.
Go to vanguardsoh.com and read the bios of those involved, you'll find to your amazement that Sigil has a few artists/devs who are former SoE people, who in fact worked on the SWG project. Why did they leave SoE? Because they HATE SoE for screwing over SWG!
Bottom line, SoE will only deliver, Sigil has a deathgrip on content, and they're VERY aware of how SoE can screw up content. They say if you lie down with dogs you get fleas, but in this case I'm confident Sigil has lots of flea spray...and a short leash for SoE.
Nuff said, I'm buying it.
SOE cheesed off the wrong market segment. The game they originally designed wasn't for the ADHD crowd. Most of us who loved pre-CU are mature adults with at least somewhat limited entertainment budgets, and we do not forget so easily when a company wrongs us. If the change had been the other way, from a "game for dummies" to something challenging and intelligent, their old customers would have probably forgotten all about it in six months. That's not what happened, and SOE will be paying for their decisions for a long time to come.
There's a sucker born every minute. - P.T. Barnum
To be very very very honest here. your comments, all of you, are sooo long!
i get what you're trying to say, with SOE wronging you and all, but i haven't played swg or what it was
.
though, i have more than enough braincontent to know what you're saying, this game looks very promising and i don't think all people at SOE are bad. Just think about the people who make coffee , or organize the paperwork
I think i will love this game!
Haaai
Although as an ex-SWG player I do understand some of the views here, I am sorry to see this topic degenerate into yet another SOE hate thread. Despite my anger regarding the NGE and other SOE actions, I believe Sigil's reasoning in making the move they made. Staying with Microsoft would have been a horrible choice and would have damaged the game far more than any SOE hatred will.
Anyway! I for one will be buying this game and judging it on its own merits. If somewhere down the line I don't like how things are going, I will move on. Like I did with SWG, and a few others. Thanks for the great article and I look forward to future commentaries regarding the staff's beta experience
As for the casual gamer whinners, screw you! there is enough casual gamer crap out there for you to play for ever. I want a HARD hard-core game to play for once and I hope this is it.
"I want Evercrack on Steroids"
The former SWG players have proven that when gamers collectively refuse to patronize a game, it does make a difference and SOE is paying for it across the board, not just with SWG. Most of the former SWG players are refusing to buy other SOE games and Sony products in general. Many gamers who never played a SOE game are avoiding them after reading about how shabbily the SWG players were treated. Anyone with common sense would not put themselves in a position to be screwed over like that.
I also want a HARD hard-core game to play, and I know Vanguard won't be it because it's a raiding centric game. It's a misconception to think raiding is hardcore when soloing can be much more challenging, relying on one's own skills and abilities rather than riding the tailcoats of others.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh