Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
I don't get it/What's the point?
goneglockin
Member UncommonPosts: 706
I honestly don't think we need anymore of these games where people just play to reach level max and get uber gear. If it doesn't offer gameplay principles and features built around and improved from pre-trammel UO I'm probably not interested. Pretty much every MMO game since EverQuest has been just like this.
Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise.
Comments
Um, last I checked the point of "these" games are to have fun, all the while adventuring, questing, exploring, crafting, socializing, etc. And most people play these games to do just that - have fun.
Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise.
What's insane is dumbing down the gameplay to prevent any disturbance to what is no longer a game but an overglorified chat room. I'm sorry but I firmly believe these early years of MMORPG have been entirely wrong- and it started when UO went Trammie; and was cemented with the release of EverQuest- and that it needs to change.
I think one of the most common posts I see in the pub is I'm bored/Need new MMO. Hell, I've been bored for 7 years. For me the question is not whether or not there's a new MMO out; but has the entire industry gotten it's head out of it's ass.
Wake me when they decide to make a game that offers fun gameplay over making e-friends.
Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise.
no i think that is exactly what a mmorpg is supposed to be....not a substitute for real life but defiantly a type of game for socializing and interacting with other people.
i understand what you are saying and if you want to experience real life socializing over playing a computer game, by all means go right ahead i totally understand that point.
personally, i have already done that when i was younger....i went to the bars, hung out with my friends, got myself in alot of trouble too.
now i like to play games as my outlet from reality instead of partying all the time, sure i still like to do other things in the real life that has nothing to do with gaming....but my main hobby is indeed mmorpg's.
also i never played UO, but is that game not social? i don't understand why you would play a mmog not to socialize with other people or at the very least play to interact with them.
the whole point to playing a game with so many people is to interact with them isn't it? and if you don't agree then what do you think is the point?
You more or less said it yourself- interaction is one thing; but socializing is another. The reason I don't like today's MMO's- most all of them- is because they put more emphasis on socializing than good gameplay. You will always need to interact with people; you'll need to do business- or you'll be attacked by a killer and have to defend yourself. (not in any of these new consensual PvP games that have been toned down to foster socializing though- remember) Hell, you could even make roleplayed friends and enemys; be sociable... But you do not need to be on teamspeak with these people every day shooting the shit.
The game becomes less of a casual environment where you can drop in, do your thing, and log off- and more of a commitment to other people in a never ending cycle to get everyone pixel crack.
I think the fact that so many people just chew these games up and spit them out once they level max and get all the "uber gear" is a testament to the quality of gameplay they offer.
Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise.
The point is, Vanguard adds nothing new to the grindfest ideology...
New would be:
- More interdependand classes (Vampires only playable at night or in sun-covered areas unless buffed, ghost beings that are powerful in astral travelling and magic but can be banned, scouts that actually ARE using terrain to keep stealthed, alchemists, cavalry and attack from mounts)
- More versatile landscapes (Indefined Dreamworld with altered physics, heath and meadow landscape, REAL mountain ranges with REAL snow and small trails, REAL cave systems that can bring you to oblivion or shortcut your way)
- More exterior impact on players (Rain without equipment gets you the cold, desert actually debuffs non-desert classes)
- Factions have REAL impact on players (travelling fees, KoS by guards of hostile factions)
- And finally... the FINAL initiative: STOP DEATH PENALTY AND TIMESINKS, if you cant get people excited with your ideas, dont force them to go through your torture fantasies.
God, I have millions of ideas that would make the difference, the point is, the industry doesnt WANT to make a difference, We had EQ, its been a success, just do the same thing with a fancy big world and nice polished grafics... yay, ppl gonna play it...
No, WoW didnt make anything especially innovative, but they did one thing, they kept it exciting, its not the "easy mode" that appeals to people, its the fact that you dont have to wait forever until you get rewarded for something...
Meridion
You more or less said it yourself- interaction is one thing; but socializing is another. The reason I don't like today's MMO's- most all of them- is because they put more emphasis on socializing than good gameplay. You will always need to interact with people; you'll need to do business- or you'll be attacked by a killer and have to defend yourself. (not in any of these new consensual PvP games that have been toned down to foster socializing though- remember) Hell, you could even make roleplayed friends and enemys; be sociable... But you do not need to be on teamspeak with these people every day shooting the shit.
The game becomes less of a casual environment where you can drop in, do your thing, and log off- and more of a commitment to other people in a never ending cycle to get everyone pixel crack.
I think the fact that so many people just chew these games up and spit them out once they level max and get all the "uber gear" is a testament to the quality of gameplay they offer.
so your okay with interacting with other people as long as it is killing them? LOL i know thats not exactly your point but that is just of it, it seems.
i don't see what the harm is in making friends in a mmorpg, even in a game where there is open pvp. there is strength in numbers, and the more allies you have in a full blown pvp game the better.
but don't get me wrong, i do see the points you are making. some people take these games way to seriously and don't take care of things they need to take care of in real life because they need to log in and help their online friends.
you just gatta be responsible and play the game you play in moderation and take care of what you need to take care of in real life. personally, i don't have alot of fun in games where the only interaction i get from other players is killing them.
that is just my opinion
You was being kinda interesting until you got to this point.
Every game that I have fun playing has a penalty for failiure, from D&D to EQ to Monopoly to football. I havent yet played a game I enjoy without a risk to 'losing'.
One persons (ie 8 year olds and casual gamers) 'totured fantasy' is another persons challange. Not everyone likes to be spoonfed porridge.
You know... it's people like you that are crapping all over games. Doing nothing all day except moaning about whats wrong with the current generation (how they don't reflect your own personal ideas etc) and how hard and 'torturous' they are. You are the reason that games are getting shorter, easier, and dumber. You actually think you are the salvation we are all waiting for, while in fact you are the very reason why we will never see any of the things you ask for in the rest of your post.
btw, games by definition are a timesink... get over it. Not like anyone playing these things is out doing charity work or saving lives.
Product development 101:
Seen one cowboy movie, you've seen them all, plot wise at least. They do tend to build on success though, each Clint Eastwood movie is better than the last IMO, but essentially the same. Ever notice how movies are made in gluts based on genere? Thats because its product development works on a 'copy the last successful recipie with a few improvements' model. This isnt because theyre stupid, its just due to the nature of their product and a bunch of other factors.
In other industries, companies work on creating their own market. This is achieved by taking more risks and identifying niches that can be grown and attracting untapped demographics. When a market place changes, then the industry may change its product development strategy.
The games industry seems to work like the movie industry, which in my opinion is silly. Movies have been selling around the world for many years, and making a different type of film isnt likely to open up new markets, so they appeal to the largest. In my opinion WOW has demonstrated that this is not the case for games, theres plenty of room for market growth. If just one up and comming mmorpg could do something different and succeed, it could spark a renaissance rather than the current forehanded development model.
right now i play WOW and of couse you are limited a bit by what you
class can do, ie you wont have a warrior healing or a mage tanking, but
i think that limiting the classes and race of games even more would
make the game that much more interesting and make it so that, if you
wanted to try something new, you had to go and start over, i kinda hate
the fact that in WOW, if your a NE for instance, you can still go into
the cold mountains of dun morogh and be warm and toasty when dancing
naked for a few extra silver. a debuff would make the game much
more interesting and ass to the skill you would need and the knowledge
of the areas
also, even though, as a druid, i love to stealth past people, it has
become to easy and i think i shoudl have to hide in the shadows and go
behind rocks and trees and bushed to avoid being seen
wow you really have no clue do you? you really think it will fail if it offers the "same ole same ole"? i wonder why every other game has been successful for doing that?
i wonder how blizzard struck gold with wow when providing the "same ole same ole"?
I'm curious to what "facts" you are referring to?
the fact is wow was made on mechanics stolen from other games, and yet it is one of the most popular mmorpg's in history.
pvp will not be the deciding factor with this game, didn't you learn from the thread you posted? its not just pvp that makes these games popular....there is so much more to it that that.
but go right ahead and insult me all day, clearly you have no real "facts" to back up your argument, just some BS theory about pvp that has already been shot down. have a great day!
Your right guy the problem is most people never played UO in its heyday, WOW was probably their first mmorpg and they thought thats how a mmorpg was supposed to be. There were no quests or missions in UO, no stupid corpse runs with a ghost to get ressed, yet there was always something to do.
In UO you made friends because you wanted to not because you were forced to group to complete some lame quest or go to an instanced dungeon. You had freedom to go and do whatever you wanted, that was replaced with a level progression where your forced to stay in an area until you level up. Its kinda like watching penguins jump in a hole in the ice, line up and do the same thing the penguin before you did.
Gear is 3/4s of your chars stats, since you can never lose or trade these items in the newer games your forced to do certain things, so now your back to forced groups/friends. There were items in UO, vanq weps and such but they were lootable so it was personal skill in combat that made the difference.
Housing in UO was great and house fighting rocked. Decorating a house was also incredible, by just arranging common items you could make some amazing designs. In most games these days there is no housing, if there is its probably instanced, you really lose the feeling of a virtual world, no point in decorating.
One of the most baffling dynamics is movement speed. Your character moves at a snails pace compared to UO. You would think as computers advanced so would movement speed but this is'nt the case.
Recently, after 5 years away, I went back to UO on a free server pre-trammel. I figured I'd show them what an old-school pvper could do. After so many years away playing the newer games my slug-like reaction time did'nt seem to impress anyone, I was promptly served up on a noobie platter, lol.
All I can say is join a free server, I'm on UO gamers hybrid, its pre-trammel and is the most popular of the free servers. It's pretty cool, I keep running into people who ask, are'nt you from atlantic server, then we talk about the good old days. It's kinda like a veterans parade, all the old timers are there.
I'm with ya brother, still waiting for a replacement to pick up where UO pre-trammel left off. Unfortunately all I see on the horizon are slow paced linear games where gear is your character and skill is best left at the door before you turn your computer on.
goneglockin has point,have read alot of info about Vanguard think that the game need to be skill based like UO,whit this level crap ,how can your char be "one of its kind" ?
It starts from the proposition that mmos have introduced a new style of gaming where people play a game for many months, and even years. For example, there are people who have been playing EQ for six years. Before mmos, the only games people played for that length of time - as a continuation of the same game, as opposed to repeating one - was pen and paper roleplaying games.
Within the market for games where players spend many hundreds of hours online, there is a subset of the market who feel strongly that their characters need to be vastly more powerful than other people's characters. Not only does that represent "winning" to them (and some people cannot accept the notion of an unwinnable game), they feel they have earned that distinction through their investment of time.
So, the attraction of Vanguard to many is that if you play it a lot, you can walk around as a virtual god among your gaming peers. Some people crave that kind of adoration or feel the game isn't any fun if there is no end game recognition of their accomplishments that sets them apart.
What Sigil is attempting to do is bring back a more draconian stratification system among the players. You will be keenly aware of your weakness versus another player's strength, or vice versa. When you see Brad refer to greater "depth", that is code speak for "don't worry, you can be 1eet while other people are noobs. No more casual players with purple items" Again, there is a subset of players who miss how radical that distinction used to be in the early days of mmo gaming versus more modern titles.
Two questions arise from this. One is, will the market sustain such a game in a competitive market where players have so many choices? Does a casual player really want to run around in ratty gear in Vanguard killing vermin, being lorded over by those who spend 10 hours a day playing, when they could have more fun and be better equipped in some other game where there is less of a bright line distinction between them and their peers? The second question is, how do you sustain the interest of people who need to be "the best" if you chase off the people they supposedly are better than? A lot of people who think they are going to be "the best" in Vanguard are going to find that in that world, they are the casual players (because the real casual players left or never played at all). Sure, they will tell you that's ok, but their whole mindset indicates it is far from ok, and they will seek their adoration and distinction whereever they can get it.
It's going to be fun to see how this plays out. *Grabs the popcorn and starts munching.*
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
UO got it's gameplay from MUD's, which got their gameplay from single-player rpgs, which got their gameplay from pen and paper RPG's...
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
You more or less said it yourself- interaction is one thing; but socializing is another. The reason I don't like today's MMO's- most all of them- is because they put more emphasis on socializing than good gameplay. You will always need to interact with people; you'll need to do business- or you'll be attacked by a killer and have to defend yourself. (not in any of these new consensual PvP games that have been toned down to foster socializing though- remember) Hell, you could even make roleplayed friends and enemys; be sociable... But you do not need to be on teamspeak with these people every day shooting the shit.
The game becomes less of a casual environment where you can drop in, do your thing, and log off- and more of a commitment to other people in a never ending cycle to get everyone pixel crack.
I think the fact that so many people just chew these games up and spit them out once they level max and get all the "uber gear" is a testament to the quality of gameplay they offer.
Seems to me that you need to go play a dwindling game like planetside, the game is dying out but hey, it sounds like just the type of game you would like.
The fact that you start off with 'WoW' speaks volumes to me...
- And finally... the FINAL initiative: STOP DEATH PENALTY AND TIMESINKS, if you cant get people excited with your ideas, dont force them to go through your torture fantasies.
No, WoW didnt make anything especially innovative, but they did one thing, they kept it exciting, its not the "easy mode" that appeals to people, its the fact that you dont have to wait forever until you get rewarded for something...
But nonetheless, WoW is indeed 'easy mode'.
The thing I find troubling, aside from the whinging about 'torturous' challenges and any penalties for failiure
, are the blanket statements made here. Who are you to say what 'people' found good or appealing about WoW? At best, you are entitled to say what YOU found good about the game, and thats about it. I know 3 people playing that game who are bored stupid by it, but play still because theres simply nothing else out there right now worth spit. One is dumping it to build a NWN2 server, another waiting for VG, the third loves his guild. None of the three cite easy/ fast rewards as a reason they still play. I only say this as an example btw... I wouldnt suggest 3 people represent a fair sample of the player base. My point is we just don't know.
If EZ mode/ instant gratification gaming is your thing then BC will keep you going there for a fair while yet I guess... I would rather play games that demand something off me.