To NDA or to not NDA?

Brahm · March 2004

I am aware that this topic has been discussed before and it always becomes somewhat heated, but I thought a poll might be interesting. So here goes....

Anofalye · March 2004

I dont believe in protecting copyright stuff with NDA.

Any serious competitor will have access to all information about the beta stage of the game if not even in the alpha!

- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''

TaskyZZ · March 2004

It's just propaganda. Even if you break the NDA, all they can do is kisk you out of Beta...

NDA, blah, blah, blah...

Anofalye · March 2004

Well,

Respecting NDA is something folks need to do, otherwise they wont be doing beta more. But NDA is mostly to prevent wrong info to the mass I think. The game in beta can have huge big changes, which mean, to many previews that are wrong can bring a lot of bad info on the game, this is why, they control info by allowing a few officials previews only, which they can talk the peoples to change wrong info when it change or release a new review/preview base on the new game and erase the old with wrong info.

NDA is a good thing in this jungle, but it have nothing to do with copyright.

NDA is to prevent the worst thing that can happen to a game, wrong publicity.

If folks dont respect NDA, there would be less beta and more alpha.

- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''

xDeadlinex · March 2004

IM pretty sure they can do more than just kick you out. Although some people dont think of a NDA as an acually contract because you dont acually sign it or anything and normally people dont even bother reading it seeing all they have to do it click the "I accept" button.

Achiever 80%
Socializer 46%
Killer 40%
Explorer 33%

TheThriller · March 2004

Originally posted by xDeadlinex
IM pretty sure they can do more than just kick you out. Although some people dont think of a NDA as an acually contract because you dont acually sign it or anything and normally people dont even bother reading it seeing all they have to do it click the "I accept" button.

Well not only do they kick you out but also the reason that alot of betas only allow people over the age 18 is so they can be tried as an adult. And as for the poll...its pretty much all of the above.

If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.
--Jack Handy

TaskyZZ · March 2004

Originally posted by TheThriller
Originally posted by xDeadlinex IM pretty sure they can do more than just kick you out. Although some people dont think of a NDA as an acually contract because you dont acually sign it or anything and normally people dont even bother reading it seeing all they have to do it click the "I accept" button. Well not only do they kick you out but also the reason that alot of betas only allow people over the age 18 is so they can be tried as an adult. And as for the poll...its pretty much all of the above.If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.
--Jack Handy

Tried as an adult?!?!

I can see it now...

Game Lawyer: "Your honor, the defendant went on www.gamesforums.com and posted screenshots of our game. And he posted information about our super uber, spin around and kill everybody skill in our game. For divulging this very top secret information, he owes us $50000 or he should be put in jail for one year."

Judge: "Real, national security stuff, huh?!?!. And what agreement did you have with him?"

Game Lawyer: "When he played the game, he clicked the 'I agree' button. Microsoft invented this totally unenforceable concept, so it must be good."

Judge: "Really? He pushed a button?? Thank god you didn't have him sign anything, then I might have to work. Case dismissed."

Omol · March 2004

Actually clicking a accept button is the same thing as signing your name. Only thing is since you cant normally sign your name on a computer generated contract like a NDA without printing it out and mailing it in, a accept button works just the same.

It is a faster way of getting contracts back instead of waiting for them to come by way of mail.

----------------------------
Omol da'Ox
The Blooded

bsherlock · March 2004

Thats true, as long as the terms and conditions of what you are agreeing too are clearly visible then clicking the button is as good as your e-signature, and enforcable as such.

They may not be able to claim thousands, but to be honest is it even worth a few hundred quid to disclose info? Not unless you get paid, in which case they would sue you and the people who paid you!

Muahahahahahahaha

TaskyZZ · March 2004

I am sorry, but you guys are going to have to show me ONE instance where clicking a button was enforced as signing a contract.

It just isn't. You can't prove I pressed it.

TheThriller · March 2004

Originally posted by TaskyZZ

I am sorry, but you guys are going to have to show me ONE instance where clicking a button was enforced as signing a contract.
It just isn't. You can't prove I pressed it.

Well before hand you fill out all your personal information and etc....so........................yeah.

If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.
--Jack Handy

bsherlock · March 2004

Originally posted by TaskyZZ

I am sorry, but you guys are going to have to show me ONE instance where clicking a button was enforced as signing a contract.
It just isn't. You can't prove I pressed it.

Cookies and IP addresses, plus you are logging in the game with your particular info which you only get once you have accepted to NDA.

I am not a lawyer and cant quote you the case of Microsoft vs Mr Smith or anything but they wouldnt stick things like this on almost all websites and games etc if it wasnt legally binding.

Muahahahahahahaha

TaskyZZ · March 2004

Sure they would...

Things like this are done all the time...

But, like I said this has never been upheold in court, and I think there are examples of it not being enforeabcle in court. I will search around a bit...

I could easily fill out a form with YOUR personal info and click an I accept button.

What if to cash one of your checks, all I had to do was click a button that says "Yes, it is me"...

The "I agree" button was concocted by Microsoft and has never been proven in court. And it probably never will. It may get proven to not be binding though, and I think it has. I will search...

TaskyZZ · March 2004

OK, here is what I have found... And I did not ignore stuff that disproved my theory...

http://slashdot.org/yro/01/07/07/161248.shtml

http://www.gcglaw.com/resources/tech/click.html

It seems that software licenses are sometimes being upheld, and sometimes not depending on the court. But what it really looks like is that they are being used to protect the manufacturer from the user. I could not find a single case where the manufacturer tried to use it as a weapon against a user. Only as a defense from a disgruntled user.

So, whether it would be upheld if a company was suing a user is hard to say.

I would really like to see how one of these cases did turn out. Especially in the case of an NDA.

It seems that there is no hard rule of which way it will go yet. I just purchased a house last year, and they made me personally sign like 20 forms. Do you think they would have had me click 20 "I agree" buttons if they thought it would be binding?!?! Maybe... But when large amounts of money are invovled, they want to be certain that their contract is binding.

hercules · March 2004

Truth be told its to suppose to prevent a wrong impression of the game been leaked as it is still been worked on.

But in reality all the mmorpgs I have beta tested are 90% as it would be at launch after phase 2.

So from phase 3 u are going to get almost exactly as you see now.

DAoC removed the NDA 6weeks to launch.It was pretty stable all the time I was in beta.

AO did not remove it till launch and we all know why.

Larsa · March 2004

Originally posted by hercules
Truth be told its to suppose to prevent a wrong impression of the game been leaked as it is still been worked on. ...

Aye, that's the main reason for NDAs, it has little to do with competition but much more with people who publish wrong information about a game in development. Here's an example: game company tells beta testers that the current user interface is a temporary one used for testing purposes. Spoiled beta-kid enters the game, sees a crappy user interface, makes a screenshot and posts the shot on a public board with the comment "HTE GAME SUCKS!!!! They cannot even program a inventory window, this is a PoS, man, that game sucks big time!!!!".

*grins*

Riotgirl · March 2004

It's academic when a company releases a beta version dressed up as 'Gold' - Emperor's New Clothes.

Personally, NDA is a good thing because adverse publicity is a surefire way for a game to be emerge still-born.

Regards,

Riotgirl

"she's like this cleavagey, slut-bomb walking around going 'oh, check me out. i'm wicked cool. i'm five by five'."

Grubar · March 2004

Personally, I would prefer the dev team to use select committed alpha testers to tear up, rebuild, and polish the game, and then use the beta testers for very minor tweaks and stress test, besides the obligatory marketing promotion, with no NDA...much like Blizzard has done with World of Warcraft.

Rattlebones · March 2004

Well, I would love to see a challenge of a SW license where the license essentially states, your 49.99$ was not to purchase the actualy game copy you have but to purchase a license to use the game at our discression. Those licensing agreements will not hold up in court. However, in this instance you are not paying to be in Beta. And by electronically (or physically as I've seen in some cases) signing you are agreeing to a contract to (more or less) not disclose anything specific about the game you are testing.

Many corporations have a similar contract with their employees which must be signed as a TOE. Anything you make, we own. Any secrets stay within company until announce. Any violations and you're gone and we still own everything you produced and if you use something close enough at another company we'll sue.

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