Solo to these guys means being able to kill a snake for crap experience and loot.
All the way from level 1 to whatever.
They never learn. People told the original EQ team solo sukked. EQ told them to piss off.
Vanguard offers nothing new, same old been thier done that.
Thier graphical world is nothing but a mediocre technical achievement. Pretty graphics amount to 5% of the gameplay but they probably devoted 90% of thier resources to it. People with the creativity of a snail always do.
I might give Vanguard a try if after 3-6 months the Solo option is really a viable gameplay experience.
I will give Vanguard a try if they get more subscribers then WoW has.
Otherwise its just the same old crap EQ/Verant/SOE/Brad/etc have been spewing forever.
Vanguard needs better fluff. Lore is so poor and bad writen imho.
Don't get me wrong I do care about PvP, Crafting, Diplomacy and all that stuff... But at the end of the day it's the good fluff that keeps me going. I want to learn more about world via questing, reading scripts and so on. But fluff needs to be fun to read - interesting. Just get good fantasy writer tbh
Every time I read your post, I die a little inside...
First it is too long. It should fit in one page. Second, you said nothing. How big is "big", how deep is "deep". Like main quest line takes over 50 hours, or we have X number of quests. Is end game raiding, pvp or quests? It's vague and it long. All it is full of promises, and promises don't mean jack. Give us facts, give us proof.
You desirve the rumors, the leaks, and the misinformation that are floating around. The internet is the great equalizer. Your product is what it is, don't try to spin it.
Amathe just curious, are you going to play Vanguard?
Not until a few years after launch. After Brad sells it (which he will), and after the market reaction has caused significant changes (which it will), then I might consider it. That is, unless SOE puts in the SOE exchange. Then I will never, ever touch it.
Recall that D&D Online harped on group play and pretty much forced everyone to group. They have less than 70,000 subscribers. Now you can see their ads on this site and in print touting "now with lots more solo play!" Turbine is BEGGING the soloers to come back after taking a big crap on them. The same thing happened in EQ2. For over a year after launch they were scrambling to put in more solo content and begging the soloers to come back. Their subscription numbers suck too. Whoever ends up owning Vanguard will regret dissing the soloers and casuals. Mark my words.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the EQ2 devs make a statement whiie EQ2 was in the prelaunch creation stage that soloers would be limited to like maybe an hour or two a day and then be forced to log off if they didn't group and that the days of players soloing all day and night for hours on end would be put a stop? Can you imagine the gall? Does anyone remember that?
Originally posted by anarchyart Originally posted by Mrbloodworth "And Vanguard itself is about choices, too. Its about freedom of choice."
Then why use a class based system?
So you can "choose" a class?
You mean a pre-determined play style.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Originally posted by olddaddy .....hmmm, stick with marketing using the scantily clad elven female with the big rack, tight ass, and the penis envy type sword. Not a good move to make the consumer think, only leads to product identification confusion. Also, vary the color of the game box, psycodelic lime green should stand out good on the Best Buy shelves. And increase the price, then offer a rebate...
HAY.....take that you super serious Vanguard fanbois....Check out the box art of the game on the Vanguard pre-order site. Nubile young pointy eared elf with a nice rack, wearing a tube top, firm thighs leading up to a tight ass....and a penis envy type sword at her side...gotta love where they grab ya! And the middle eastern wench in the belly dancer costume, check out the rack on her....marketing of a serious MMORPG, gotta love it...can I call it, or can I call it. If this were a Korean MMORPG, I'd say add the thigh high pantyhose along with the spiked heals too....
And Vanguard itself is about choices, too. Its about freedom of choice. It contains content and quests and adventures for all sorts of people: casual players, core players, and even those who spend a lot of time in these games raiding in large groups. We're all about making a world that is inclusive, not exclusive. Vanguard offers a freedom that players have never before experienced--you have a wide variety of races and classes to choose from, unparalleled capability to customize your character, and multiple ways of advancing your character,
So what are you waiting for?
1- Vanguard is exclusive in current form, not inclusive. Peoples who, for any reason, dismiss 1 aspect of the game, are utterly shafted in every other aspects. Vanguard is exclusive, in a way you have to do EVERY gameplays, no matter how much you dislike some, in order to be good in ANY gameplay.
2- The intro is too long. Keep it simple, then expand. I read it all, the average gamer won't. I am not sure that naming WoW in your intro is a good idea, on banners adds yes, but in your intro?
3- I am waiting for a non-raiding server...but if HJ is out before the non-raiding server, you can be sure I will not even consider visiting Telon...HJ is a deadline.
4- Explain to me, how Vanguard at release is deeper than EverQuest with 12 expansions (is it 12?)?
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
To be honest I heard about Vanguard from reading the boards in SWG over two years ago. I've been following the game since. After reading the information about the game on the Vanguard site I'm positive this game will be the one I've been looking for since SWG lost my interest.
Can't wait for the game to come out. Thanks for the post over here Brad.
1- Vanguard is exclusive in current form, not inclusive. Peoples who, for any reason, dismiss 1 aspect of the game, are utterly shafted in every other aspects. Vanguard is exclusive, in a way you have to do EVERY gameplays, no matter how much you dislike some, in order to be good in ANY gameplay. No you have to do that to be the BEST, not good. You can be good without being master of solo, group and raid play. 2- The intro is too long. Keep it simple, then expand. I read it all, the average gamer won't. I am not sure that naming WoW in your intro is a good idea, on banners adds yes, but in your intro? I agree, too long. Naming WoW is touching on something arguably millions of people are thinking. We want a game less fluffy. I am sorry if that offends anyone. 3- I am waiting for a non-raiding server...but if HJ is out before the non-raiding server, you can be sure I will not even consider visiting Telon...HJ is a deadline. There won't be a non-raiding server because that's crazy. 4- Explain to me, how Vanguard at release is deeper than EverQuest with 12 expansions (is it 12?)? That's just it, with your wealth of posts regarding this game, you have still yet to find out about the innovative play mechanics.
Sorry. I'm just not buying into the "play Vanguard if you are smarter" spin.
Me either. On the subject of depth, it can be various things to various people. To some it might be quests or lore, but to me it's about the end game. I know in WoW there are a ton of things to do in the endgame between pvp, working the economy, and raiding etc. Truth be told, I could do without raiding, but I like to make money and pvp in WoW and EQ2. I'd imagine I could work the economy in VSoH too, but the lack of an emphasis on pvp leaves me wondering what their idea of an on going end game would be. An on going end game is more specifically what I'd consider depth though. Anyone care to clear up what that would be in VSoH? Kinda seems like it would be just hanging around... Not that that's bad, just not my thing.
I'll play a beta or a Demo but i'm not going to put any money into another mmorpg until i've tried it for free first. I have a feeling it'll be pretty similar to everything else out there.
Features that would get me excited are:
- Player cities/housing - Total 3d seemless world - Good player economy/crafting - Everything crafted and no player loots like other games. - No levels - mix and match professions
Infact everything SWG was done right.... which this game isnt
Originally posted by Akunai Originally posted by Amathe Sorry. I'm just not buying into the "play Vanguard if you are smarter" spin.
Me either. On the subject of depth, it can be various things to various people. To some it might be quests or lore, but to me it's about the end game. I know in WoW there are a ton of things to do in the endgame between pvp, working the economy, and raiding etc. Truth be told, I could do without raiding, but I like to make money and pvp in WoW and EQ2. I'd imagine I could work the economy in VSoH too, but the lack of an emphasis on pvp leaves me wondering what their idea of an on going end game would be. An on going end game is more specifically what I'd consider depth though. Anyone care to clear up what that would be in VSoH? Kinda seems like it would be just hanging around... Not that that's bad, just not my thing.
from what i have read it is going to take a while to run out of things to do and reach end game. there will be three different spheres to advance your character and hopefully by the time most people run out of things to do to advance their character more content will be released.
i do understand what you mean about pvp, but to be honest if you are happy with wow's pvp end game you will be happy with anything LOL.
but beyond that i don't think alot of information has been released about endgame pvp or pve, hopefully the pvp gives good rewards/skills/xp/loot and there is alot of small group content and quests to do.
Originally posted by anarchyart Originally posted by Mrbloodworth Originally posted by anarchyart Originally posted by Mrbloodworth "And Vanguard itself is about choices, too. Its about freedom of choice."
Then why use a class based system?
So you can "choose" a class?
You mean a pre-determined play style.
No, I actually mean a class. You know, cleric, paladin, warrior; that sort of thing. Classes = pre-determined play style.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
1- Vanguard is exclusive in current form, not inclusive. Peoples who, for any reason, dismiss 1 aspect of the game, are utterly shafted in every other aspects. Vanguard is exclusive, in a way you have to do EVERY gameplays, no matter how much you dislike some, in order to be good in ANY gameplay. No you have to do that to be the BEST, not good. You can be good without being master of solo, group and raid play. Players are elitists, no matter what you build. So groupers will be left out of the good groups because they don't raid. Thereby, Vanguard is exclusive, groupers will be left out of the best groups first, then left out of all good groups, and in a few expansion left out of basics groups. Groupers won't be able to progress all the way to the end of grouping, they will hit a wall, the less gameplays they play, the sooner that wall. Raiding is a key wall. 2- The intro is too long. Keep it simple, then expand. I read it all, the average gamer won't. I am not sure that naming WoW in your intro is a good idea, on banners adds yes, but in your intro? I agree, too long. Naming WoW is touching on something arguably millions of people are thinking. We want a game less fluffy. I am sorry if that offends anyone. When you address a competitor directly in your intro, it is bad. On advertisements it is good, but not in your intro. Just trying to help here, you don't have to defend everything they do. 3- I am waiting for a non-raiding server...but if HJ is out before the non-raiding server, you can be sure I will not even consider visiting Telon...HJ is a deadline. There won't be a non-raiding server because that's crazy. Their lost, honestly. 4- Explain to me, how Vanguard at release is deeper than EverQuest with 12 expansions (is it 12?)? That's just it, with your wealth of posts regarding this game, you have still yet to find out about the innovative play mechanics. Deeper doesn't mean innovative, it mean MORE...I don't see how they can compete, at release, with what they build over a decade with more staff and more peoples working all the time. Saying they are deeper than EQ+12 expansions is such a blatant lie that they lose all credibility. EQ is massive, each dungeon has it original twist, original love...Crushbone, Najena, Karnor, Sebilis, UK, EW, Acrylia, Fungi, East Wall, Tactics...and the list is merely beginning, this is about 5% of what EQ is...and it already challenge most new MMOs...deeper than a full scope EQ? LOL. Not to mention, I see nothing that innovative in Vanguard, yet innovative is not what I was asking, they say DEEPER...I don't see how it qualify as deeper. But if you want to bring the innovative part, go ahead and tell me what is innovative from a PLAYER point of view, don't care how the coding work.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
1- Vanguard is exclusive in current form, not inclusive. Peoples who, for any reason, dismiss 1 aspect of the game, are utterly shafted in every other aspects. Vanguard is exclusive, in a way you have to do EVERY gameplays, no matter how much you dislike some, in order to be good in ANY gameplay. No you have to do that to be the BEST, not good. You can be good without being master of solo, group and raid play. Players are elitists, no matter what you build. So groupers will be left out of the good groups because they don't raid. Thereby, Vanguard is exclusive, groupers will be left out of the best groups first, then left out of all good groups, and in a few expansion left out of basics groups. Groupers won't be able to progress all the way to the end of grouping, they will hit a wall, the less gameplays they play, the sooner that wall. Raiding is a key wall. Not all players are elitists. Groupers will NOT be left out of the good groups if they don't raid, you're on crack. Groupers won't be able to progress all the way to the end of grouping? You really are on something. 2- The intro is too long. Keep it simple, then expand. I read it all, the average gamer won't. I am not sure that naming WoW in your intro is a good idea, on banners adds yes, but in your intro? I agree, too long. Naming WoW is touching on something arguably millions of people are thinking. We want a game less fluffy. I am sorry if that offends anyone. When you address a competitor directly in your intro, it is bad. On advertisements it is good, but not in your intro. Just trying to help here, you don't have to defend everything they do. I'm just stating that it strikes a chord with me, and likely will with millions of other ex-WoW players. 3- I am waiting for a non-raiding server...but if HJ is out before the non-raiding server, you can be sure I will not even consider visiting Telon...HJ is a deadline. There won't be a non-raiding server because that's crazy. Their lost, honestly. Can't agree. 4- Explain to me, how Vanguard at release is deeper than EverQuest with 12 expansions (is it 12?)? That's just it, with your wealth of posts regarding this game, you have still yet to find out about the innovative play mechanics. Deeper doesn't mean innovative, it mean MORE...I don't see how they can compete, at release, with what they build over a decade with more staff and more peoples working all the time. Saying they are deeper than EQ+12 expansions is such a blatant lie that they lose all credibility. EQ is massive, each dungeon has it original twist, original love...Crushbone, Najena, Karnor, Sebilis, UK, EW, Acrylia, Fungi, East Wall, Tactics...and the list is merely beginning, this is about 5% of what EQ is...and it already challenge most new MMOs...deeper than a full scope EQ? LOL. You don't know enough about Vanguard's play mechanics to say whether it is deeper than EQ1 or not, you just don't. You have no idea whether Crushbone is a deeper dungeon than what Vanguard will have to offer. You're more in the dark than me because you haven't even looked into the friggin' game! Not to mention, I see nothing that innovative in Vanguard, yet innovative is not what I was asking, they say DEEPER...I don't see how it qualify as deeper. But if you want to bring the innovative part, go ahead and tell me what is innovative from a PLAYER point of view, don't care how the coding work. You see nothing innovative in Vanguard because YOU HAVEN'T READ ABOUT IT! Innovation makes things deeper, just google the word pls kk thx. Here's a slice of innovative for you, the rest you can look up yourself. Let's say you're playing a Ranger. You can choose how far back you pull the bow for more power or speed, depending on your play style. That is just one tiny tidbit of one aspect of being a Ranger, and all the classes have great innovations like that. And then there's the stances. Look into it, hmmmkay?
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth Classes = pre-determined play style.
Nope, you can play any class many different ways. I've met bards who tank, clerics who are dps, paladin as main healer, beastlords who tank, mages as crowd control. Very narrow minded to think there aren't multiple things any class can do.
Originally posted by anarchyart Originally posted by Mrbloodworth Classes = pre-determined play style.
Nope, you can play any class many different ways. I've met bards who tank, clerics who are dps, paladin as main healer, beastlords who tank, mages as crowd control. Very narrow minded to think there aren't multiple things any class can do.
You do realize that the reason that classes exist is that the developers need that predetermined abilities and play style to help them balance everything.
Otherwise, they would use a skill based system, that is much harder to account for all the possible abilities and play styles or group roles.
This is the sole reason that classes exist, that and the ability to define the role of each class in a group of people.
There are a few Fantasy classes that are grey zone variations of the core Tank, CC, Heal, BUFF, and DOT roles in a group, those are what you are sighting.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Brad dont you know you are in flaming troll infested waters now
Anyway to sum up what i think of Vanguard and MMO landscape right now.
Curent state of MMOs is so bad that you need a frigin singleplayer game like NWN2 or Oblivion to come in and save the day. And no , it is not going to change with WAR (read WoW) or Conan either.
The only game that didnt decided to reinvent the wheel (and probably fail at that - with all do respect to AoC) But instead decided to put back MMO into the MMO -
Vanguard saga of Heroes
And i will play it , because with all the warcrafts and co - i didnt get to play a real MMO in years !
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Comments
Solo to these guys means being able to kill a snake for crap experience and loot.
All the way from level 1 to whatever.
They never learn. People told the original EQ team solo sukked. EQ told them to piss off.
Vanguard offers nothing new, same old been thier done that.
Thier graphical world is nothing but a mediocre technical achievement. Pretty graphics amount to 5% of the gameplay but they probably devoted 90% of thier resources to it. People with the creativity of a snail always do.
I might give Vanguard a try if after 3-6 months the Solo option is really a viable gameplay experience.
I will give Vanguard a try if they get more subscribers then WoW has.
Otherwise its just the same old crap EQ/Verant/SOE/Brad/etc have been spewing forever.
Vanguard needs better fluff. Lore is so poor and bad writen imho.
Don't get me wrong I do care about PvP, Crafting, Diplomacy and all that stuff... But at the end of the day it's the good fluff that keeps me going. I want to learn more about world via questing, reading scripts and so on. But fluff needs to be fun to read - interesting. Just get good fantasy writer tbh
You desirve the rumors, the leaks, and the misinformation that are floating around. The internet is the great equalizer. Your product is what it is, don't try to spin it.
Thank you for writting what you did.
D
Spiritglow
You mean a pre-determined play style.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
You mean a pre-determined play style.
No, I actually mean a class. You know, cleric, paladin, warrior; that sort of thing.
1- Vanguard is exclusive in current form, not inclusive. Peoples who, for any reason, dismiss 1 aspect of the game, are utterly shafted in every other aspects. Vanguard is exclusive, in a way you have to do EVERY gameplays, no matter how much you dislike some, in order to be good in ANY gameplay.
2- The intro is too long. Keep it simple, then expand. I read it all, the average gamer won't. I am not sure that naming WoW in your intro is a good idea, on banners adds yes, but in your intro?
3- I am waiting for a non-raiding server...but if HJ is out before the non-raiding server, you can be sure I will not even consider visiting Telon...HJ is a deadline.
4- Explain to me, how Vanguard at release is deeper than EverQuest with 12 expansions (is it 12?)?
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
To be honest I heard about Vanguard from reading the boards in SWG over two years ago. I've been following the game since. After reading the information about the game on the Vanguard site I'm positive this game will be the one I've been looking for since SWG lost my interest.
Can't wait for the game to come out. Thanks for the post over here Brad.
I'll play a beta or a Demo but i'm not going to put any money into another mmorpg until i've tried it for free first. I have a feeling it'll be pretty similar to everything else out there.
Features that would get me excited are:
- Player cities/housing
- Total 3d seemless world
- Good player economy/crafting
- Everything crafted and no player loots like other games.
- No levels
- mix and match professions
Infact everything SWG was done right.... which this game isnt
---------------------------------------------
Don't click here...no2
from what i have read it is going to take a while to run out of things to do and reach end game. there will be three different spheres to advance your character and hopefully by the time most people run out of things to do to advance their character more content will be released.
i do understand what you mean about pvp, but to be honest if you are happy with wow's pvp end game you will be happy with anything LOL.
but beyond that i don't think alot of information has been released about endgame pvp or pve, hopefully the pvp gives good rewards/skills/xp/loot and there is alot of small group content and quests to do.
You mean a pre-determined play style.
No, I actually mean a class. You know, cleric, paladin, warrior; that sort of thing.
Classes = pre-determined play style.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
You do realize that the reason that classes exist is that the developers need that predetermined abilities and play style to help them balance everything.
Otherwise, they would use a skill based system, that is much harder to account for all the possible abilities and play styles or group roles.
This is the sole reason that classes exist, that and the ability to define the role of each class in a group of people.
There are a few Fantasy classes that are grey zone variations of the core Tank, CC, Heal, BUFF, and DOT roles in a group, those are what you are sighting.
They are still predetermined play styles and roles.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Brad coming down and posting on this forums
Brad dont you know you are in flaming troll infested waters now
Anyway to sum up what i think of Vanguard and MMO landscape right now.
Curent state of MMOs is so bad that you need a frigin singleplayer game like NWN2 or Oblivion to come in and save the day. And no , it is not going to change with WAR (read WoW) or Conan either.
The only game that didnt decided to reinvent the wheel (and probably fail at that - with all do respect to AoC)
But instead decided to put back MMO into the MMO -
Vanguard saga of Heroes
And i will play it , because with all the warcrafts and co - i didnt get to play a real MMO in years !
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Starwars Galaxies, An Empier Diveded, That's what it says on my box anyway.