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Pre-CU vs Loot Based MMO's
kain-iii
Member Posts: 146
What I liked about SWG Pre-Cu is that the game was about socialization and adventuring and not about loot. Almost every item in the game was craftable. This created a interdendance amoung proffessions. Also because everything was craftable elite equipment was not difficult to aquire. This then allowed you to focus on the game. Adventuring, exlporing, competing. At the end of your gaming session you had the socialization and adventuring etc as your reward.
Not having a loot based MMO encouraged socialization and interdepedance. You did not have to kill loot repeat, to aquire the best stuff in the game to compete.
Many MMO's out there make you loot constantly to keep you playing the game. Every week newer and better equipment is added to the game. If you want the best stuff to be able to compete u have to keep playing.
I don't know how people find that rewarding. If is so simple minded.
At the end of their gaming session (kill, loot repeat for hrs on end) their attitude is look at me. I have all the best stuff and then go on to make fun of people that do not have elite stuff and refer to them as noobs. What a simple minded mentality.
SWG Pre-CU
-Easy to aquire elite items and compete as everything was craftable.
-Decay on use of items maintained a interdepence and socialization amoung proffessions.
-End of gaming experience - adventuring, socialization, acomplisments.
Loot Based MMO's
-Extremely Difficult to aquire elite items allowing you to compete.
-To maintain socialization (Spaming Ubber Such and such loot for sale. Best prices here) better equipment is continuously added to the loot table.
-End of gaming experience - Look at me I got such and such equipment.
Not having a loot based MMO encouraged socialization and interdepedance. You did not have to kill loot repeat, to aquire the best stuff in the game to compete.
Many MMO's out there make you loot constantly to keep you playing the game. Every week newer and better equipment is added to the game. If you want the best stuff to be able to compete u have to keep playing.
I don't know how people find that rewarding. If is so simple minded.
At the end of their gaming session (kill, loot repeat for hrs on end) their attitude is look at me. I have all the best stuff and then go on to make fun of people that do not have elite stuff and refer to them as noobs. What a simple minded mentality.
SWG Pre-CU
-Easy to aquire elite items and compete as everything was craftable.
-Decay on use of items maintained a interdepence and socialization amoung proffessions.
-End of gaming experience - adventuring, socialization, acomplisments.
Loot Based MMO's
-Extremely Difficult to aquire elite items allowing you to compete.
-To maintain socialization (Spaming Ubber Such and such loot for sale. Best prices here) better equipment is continuously added to the loot table.
-End of gaming experience - Look at me I got such and such equipment.
Comments
Actually, I'd say Pre-CU was somewhat loot based as well, but rather it was the components that you looted. You then took those components to the specific crafter who used them to make the uber item. You might not of had to do any killing-loot-repeat to get that uber weapon, but someone probably did to get the component to make it.
There were also the mind DoT weapons that people spent much time trying to loot.
There was a few hard to get items but in general most of the components needed for equipment was more of gathering resources then looting.
Voritor Scales etc. I wouldn't really call that looting. It is easy to get, kill some voritors. You were not really killing over and over waiting and hoping for a .0001% drop.
Also with the multiproffessions such as Bio Engineer, Chef, Doc, AmourSmith etc. The need for materials was there which in turn gave a purpose to the ranger/scout proffession. Those that liked to hunt and gather resources as both a means of income and entertainment.
The very few Pre-CU rare items such as pearl's CA's and AA's. The CA's and AA's did help but you could play without them. Keeping a few items hard to get can be fun. But definitly not heavy loot dependant that is forsure. My gaming experience did not included look at me I got such and such equipment but rather the socialization and what I had accomplished. The further away from a loot based game the better.
Other than that rarer not impossible loot items such as for paintings, etc. Decorations makes a item special and unique to the owner rather then I am better then you.
Obraik, while there were a number of folks who had to have the NS DoT lances and while there were some parts or schematics that needed to be looted to complete a number of the craftable items, it was NOT the same thing as the loot-based system we have been relegated to, and you know it.
You didn't have to get and do those things to become competitive or even have fun. Now these things are a prerequisite to being able to become competetive and an obstacle you have to overcome to get to where you can have fun again. You should know better, man. You're a vet.
_______________________
Kote lo'shebs'ul narit
But it still boggles my mind that Helios and his team have abandoned the core design element of crafted weapons being the best in the game, always. Introducing more and more 'must-have' looted items instead of 'must-have' schematics or components just speaks of an entirely different game philosophy than pre-NGE. And while it's fine to have such a radically different philosophy for a game you're creating from scratch, it's proved to be a disaster to change horses so significantly in mid-stream with a deployed game that should be WAY past these kind of design zig-zags.
I liked my city's crafters ... I wanted to do business with them ... I wanted to harvest the rare metals they needed and sell it to them (or give it to them if it was grind-quality they needed to level up). Taking away the primacy of crafted gear took away an important sub-game that too many customers enjoyed to dump it. So they dumped SWG.
SWG's unofficial theme song: "Get back ... get back ... get back to where you once belonged ... get back Smed-o!"
You didn't have to get and do those things to become competitive or even have fun. Now these things are a prerequisite to being able to become competetive and an obstacle you have to overcome to get to where you can have fun again. You should know better, man. You're a vet.
QFE
Looking at the list of NGE baubles and loot from the ebay account on bria the other day made me want to vomit, all the WOW-sy titles nothing more "star-warzy" and "iconic" than direct rip offs of fantasy hack and slash games, huh? Uncle Owen is rolling in his grave and good ole Nancy still has too much reading to do. Can we start putting some strong ADD meds in the water at SOE Austin to get these Ferrets On Crack under control?
There's free love on the Freelove Freeway.
You didn't have to get and do those things to become competitive or even have fun. Now these things are a prerequisite to being able to become competetive and an obstacle you have to overcome to get to where you can have fun again. You should know better, man. You're a vet.
I didn't say it was the same as it is now, I said it was somewhat
To get the highend weapons you generally needed looted components, such as Krayt tissues, Gorax shards, etc. You didn't have to get them, you could settle for weapons without them if you didn't want the highend, and you can do the same today.
To get the highend weapons you generally needed looted components, such as Krayt tissues, Gorax shards, etc. You didn't have to get them, you could settle for weapons without them if you didn't want the highend, and you can do the same today .
/blink
/pause 0.5
/shrug
I didn't say it was the same as it is now, I said it was somewhat
To get the highend weapons you generally needed looted components, such as Krayt tissues, Gorax shards, etc. You didn't have to get them, you could settle for weapons without them if you didn't want the highend, and you can do the same today.
I didn't need any of those things ... I just needed to know the location of a weaponsmith who'd gone out and got them, and some cash in my account. Before the rise of the non-transferable/saleable item in the game, this was where you got all the best stuff.
I didn't have to like looting at all to get the best stuff, I just had to do something that raised cash. The people who enjoyed the farming/looting took care of it for me.
I didn't say it was the same as it is now, I said it was somewhat
To get the highend weapons you generally needed looted components, such as Krayt tissues, Gorax shards, etc. You didn't have to get them, you could settle for weapons without them if you didn't want the highend, and you can do the same today.
I didn't need any of those things ... I just needed to know the location of a weaponsmith who'd gone out and got them, and some cash in my account. Before the rise of the non-transferable/saleable item in the game, this was where you got all the best stuff.
I didn't have to like looting at all to get the best stuff, I just had to do something that raised cash. The people who enjoyed the farming/looting took care of it for me.
Someone still had to loot it though so the Weaponsmith could use it
- Yea, it's a Fortifying Double-bladed Lightsaber of Stamina. With +9 against ogres.
How... uncivilized.
No-trade was invented to introduce single-player into MMOs. When looking at the big picture, soulbound items are player specific, and as such aren't part of the game. This allows for clear separation of quest content from economy.
In SWG, such concept was doomed to fail from the start, due to lack of secondary economy. WoW introduces secondary economy through potions, resources, and similar. Since that concept didn't exist in SWG, merely introducing no-trade items caused a rift in tradable items, with, well, economic collapse.
SWG used different paradigm for trade. It was based around volume, rather than restrictions. Due to decay, the resource -> item chain worked. Since resource acquisition was mostly time-based (mixing and matching skills allowed anyone to obtain anything) the supply and demand were controlled.
WoW, and most other games, use class-restrictions. A herbalist cannot be a miner, an alchemist cannot be a blacksmith, etc. That is the other way of facilitating trade.
But ultimately, those two concepts are orthogonal. Pick one, stick with one. SWG model doesn't support no-trade items. Jedi robes and lightsabers being completely no-trade were an issue for that very reason. ADK the death sentence. No trade the funeral pyre.
I didn't say it was the same as it is now, I said it was somewhat
To get the highend weapons you generally needed looted components, such as Krayt tissues, Gorax shards, etc. You didn't have to get them, you could settle for weapons without them if you didn't want the highend, and you can do the same today.
I didn't need any of those things ... I just needed to know the location of a weaponsmith who'd gone out and got them, and some cash in my account. Before the rise of the non-transferable/saleable item in the game, this was where you got all the best stuff.
I didn't have to like looting at all to get the best stuff, I just had to do something that raised cash. The people who enjoyed the farming/looting took care of it for me.
QFE
I was usually too busy ingame to go looting for components, I preferred to do my doc thing most of the time so when I felt like I needed something I'd go to a shop or the trade forums.
Noobs used to be able to grind and harvest avian/herb or whatever and it would earn millions for some nice pvp/pve gear by the time they completed their template
It was so simple it was beautiful
well there was loot like schematics motors barrels shards layers ect, Not many complete things thou and all depended on crafting and slice.
I would of perferred all weapons be craftable only with more lootable components like sound it makes and color of blast blot. Any successful player should have a personal crafter for your most important stuff cut em crasy deals by giving loot the can use.
Id give stuff from 200k to 3mill by truck loads ie my armorsmith I gave 300 ns health bonus(was layers I was saving to make my armor with). thats like 300 mill right there lol but if I needed him he was always there and I was always first.
To me it was wheeling and dealing and becoming a hero from a total noob who was like WTF is grinding or UBER no thanks to clone troopers and looted crap ....rather have my stuff personalized
There's free love on the Freelove Freeway.
I didn't say it was the same as it is now, I said it was somewhat
To get the highend weapons you generally needed looted components, such as Krayt tissues, Gorax shards, etc. You didn't have to get them, you could settle for weapons without them if you didn't want the highend, and you can do the same today.
I didn't need any of those things ... I just needed to know the location of a weaponsmith who'd gone out and got them, and some cash in my account. Before the rise of the non-transferable/saleable item in the game, this was where you got all the best stuff.
I didn't have to like looting at all to get the best stuff, I just had to do something that raised cash. The people who enjoyed the farming/looting took care of it for me.
Someone still had to loot it though so the Weaponsmith could use it
Now you're splitting hairs, man.
What K and I are saying is that to have the best, we didn't HAVE to deal with the camping or whatever. We simply had to track down an excellant smith and BUY it. Sometimes I think you willfully misinterpret and sidestep stuff. And I'm sorry, but I can't just trot my butt to a vender and buy a Restuss weapon. There's a whole shebsload of stuff, all of it top of the line, that is notrade, nodrop with layers of "just for you" piled so deep that it's kriffing ridiculous. There's no good reason for it, and if you say "anti-camp" I'll smack you since you have to camp to get most of it and the rest is just past silly.
Can you explain to me why all factional armor has to be biolinked and why that's such a di'kutla great idea?
I get that you love your game, man, I really do. You don't need to hammer that any more. I think we all get that. But even you have to admit that there's a lot of pointless stupid going into how they're making it. And no, it won't make your love any less true for being honest.
_______________________
Kote lo'shebs'ul narit
At least when Clinton lied nobody Died.
**BTW, each time you make a comment like this, you lose credibility**
At least when Clinton lied nobody Died.
**BTW, each time you make a comment like this, you lose credibility**
With whom? About the only thing to compare Obriak's contortions to are either the Iraq Information Minister, or James Carville.
At least when Clinton lied nobody Died.
**BTW, each time you make a comment like this, you lose credibility**
With whom? About the only thing to compare Obriak's contortions to are either the Iraq Information Minister, or James Carville.
The people that don't believe Fox News verbatim, the people that disagree with the current regime, the people that are able to think for themselves and look beyond the superficial bullcrap that passes for news in the mainstream media.
Fine use the Iraqi Info Minister as an analogy, but lay off Clinton.
Clinton DID not lie, to get support to invade a country on evidence that NEVER existed, Clinton did not send our Brothers, sisters, Cousins, and parents to fight in a war for OIL, if you believe anything but the concept of war for OIL in Iraq you are even more niave than the other Bush supporters.
Who is going to benefit from this? It sure as hell isn't going to be the Iraqi people, it is going to be the US corporations who didn't even have to bid for their contracts in the "reconstruction (i.e: RAPE)" of Iraq.
***I apologize for my rant, this is NOT the place for political comments or debate, this is a place for SWG convos further posts will not be in this vein. ***
/tar jerk
/macro forcewhap
CUT IT OUT!
I have my own political views and just like my religious leanings, I KEEP IT TO MYSELF as should you.
K'UUR, DI'KUT!
_______________________
Kote lo'shebs'ul narit
TO SELL THE EXPANSIONS
If someone could loot the best weapons and sell them on a vendor, less people would buy the expansions.
Of course, WoW does it to help guide players to specific content and PVP. SWG was all about the greed.
P.S. A current Bush supporter and an nge supporter have too many parallels they deserve their own thread.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
On SWG u could buy every thing, for some items to be ubber u need some rare part ok u have time to get it, u can go when u what whit just about 5 friend or more if u like, i still remenber when i was mastering Ranger, my guild was going hunt the big dragons =P, puting my best camp and after 1 hour there was about 20 to 30 ppl in the camp talking and whaiting for their turn to hunt an big one.
On WoW i see ppl quiting the guild because we dind get his gloves tier 2 ...
Loot Based MMO's if u what to be all Epic, do have all the latest items u must spend at least 8 hour's a day. Some times i have spend about 30 hour's strait playing WoW, just get up to go do WC and get some food ...
P.S. Sorry about my english
I didn't say it was the same as it is now, I said it was somewhat
To get the highend weapons you generally needed looted components, such as Krayt tissues, Gorax shards, etc. You didn't have to get them, you could settle for weapons without them if you didn't want the highend, and you can do the same today.
I didn't need any of those things ... I just needed to know the location of a weaponsmith who'd gone out and got them, and some cash in my account. Before the rise of the non-transferable/saleable item in the game, this was where you got all the best stuff.
I didn't have to like looting at all to get the best stuff, I just had to do something that raised cash. The people who enjoyed the farming/looting took care of it for me.
Someone still had to loot it though so the Weaponsmith could use it
Now you're splitting hairs, man.
What K and I are saying is that to have the best, we didn't HAVE to deal with the camping or whatever. We simply had to track down an excellant smith and BUY it. Sometimes I think you willfully misinterpret and sidestep stuff. And I'm sorry, but I can't just trot my butt to a vender and buy a Restuss weapon. There's a whole shebsload of stuff, all of it top of the line, that is notrade, nodrop with layers of "just for you" piled so deep that it's kriffing ridiculous. There's no good reason for it, and if you say "anti-camp" I'll smack you since you have to camp to get most of it and the rest is just past silly.
Can you explain to me why all factional armor has to be biolinked and why that's such a di'kutla great idea?
I get that you love your game, man, I really do. You don't need to hammer that any more. I think we all get that. But even you have to admit that there's a lot of pointless stupid going into how they're making it. And no, it won't make your love any less true for being honest.
How is it splitting hairs? It's really the same thing.
Yes the Restuss weapons and armour are no trade but the commendations are not. You can go to a vendor, buy a stack of commendations from someone and buy the weapon or armour without ever having to do a mission in Restuss. None of the Mustafar weapons are no trade and you don't need to have the expansion to use them. Again, one could go to a vendor and buy one without ever stepping foot on Mustafar and killing a mob there. The only things from Mustafar that are no trade are the Old Republic hilts and a few buff items (that admitedly really shouldn't be no trade since they're not that great). If you want that 4 stated peice of Jewlery, you don't need to go out and loot it, you could quite easily go buy it from someone that already did it.
As for Bio-link, I was under the impression that that was to help out crafters in some way. The only way you can get a new suit of faction armour is through an armoursmith (or a reseller who didn't bio them).
Just interpret that as "you win" and move on.