I do have to say though, every time I read about this game, the more and more I realize that it holds absolutely no interest for me and I would consider myself a huge Tolkien fan. Oh well, what can you do.
Can I blame them for taking a WoW approach to the game? Absolutely not, they want to appeal to a wide spectrum of players and I get that but what I've read, seen and heard, this game is absolutely not for me.
It seemed that no matter what I was doing, the monsters around me were always in my general level range. "That's just good game design," Jeff Anderson told me.
So they pushed the easy button for a player. No probs, don't worry, mommy won't let you have a problem and won't let you die.
Sounds pretty boring. Excitement from being attacked by a killer monster (for your level) and dieing, escaping or even managing to kill it (with or without group) is more valuable to me. And what's wrong with mixing monsters and therefore players of different levels? Be careful, smart or form a group or ask higher level to help you. And learn something from higher level ppl in the process and watch their uber-weapons and spells. All that sounds way less boring to me than "my general level range".
Originally posted by velebnicek It seemed that no matter what I was doing, the monsters around me were always in my general level range. "That's just good game design," Jeff Anderson told me. So they pushed the easy button for a player. No probs, don't worry, mommy won't let you have a problem and won't let you die. Sounds pretty boring. Excitement from being attacked by a killer monster (for your level) and dieing, escaping or even managing to kill it (with or without group) is more valuable to me. And what's wrong with mixing monsters and therefore players of different levels? Be careful, smart or form a group or ask higher level to help you. And learn something from higher level ppl in the process and watch their uber-weapons and spells. All that sounds way less boring to me than "my general level range".
I agree.
This reeks of safety net game play to me. I keep referring back to early EQ1 because that has been my favorite up until now. Zones in early EQ1 were more of a mixed bag, some easier mobs mixed in with more dangerous ones and sometimes that rare random spawn that would ravage everything in sight. That was exciting and kept me on my toes.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it." Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc. Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes www.vanguardsoh
Excellent job Dana!! And I am glad they sent someone who wasn't that hopeful about the game to review it and I'm happy with what you thought of it. When I saw the screenshots a month ago- I said." Ooohhhhhhhhhh- I wanna live there" cus the world was just so enchanting looking.
And Naazir- I am so glad you get it!! Not many people do get it and disparage DDO and don't understand that Turbine INTENDED that game to appeal to a select audience. I don't think they made the game so it would appeal to the "masses" and I also respect them for making a Niche game.
Originally posted by Naazir MAN people can be hard on a game they've only seen screenshots of.
Turbine has good ideas and follows through with them. DDO was never meant to be an MMO and they stuck to that. It never got HUGE because of that but the fans of it love it for what it is, not what everyone else wanted it to be. I respect and admire that in a game company.
I can trust Turbine do make this game what they originally intended it to be:
Nice review, but I'm curious what the death penalty/mechanic for the game is?
Turbine lost me when they struck out with D&D Online. I'm VERY skeptical about LOTRO now. I don't like hand-holding ala WoW style, which sounds like that is what LOTRO is all about.
Surprisingly, the negative reaction here to the review by Dana makes me want to play LOTRO even more!! I'm serious. The emotional, irrational rage some of you have intrigues me to the point of unbridled curiousity.
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Originally posted by velebnicek It seemed that no matter what I was doing, the monsters around me were always in my general level range. "That's just good game design," Jeff Anderson told me. So they pushed the easy button for a player. No probs, don't worry, mommy won't let you have a problem and won't let you die. Sounds pretty boring. Excitement from being attacked by a killer monster (for your level) and dieing, escaping or even managing to kill it (with or without group) is more valuable to me. And what's wrong with mixing monsters and therefore players of different levels? Be careful, smart or form a group or ask higher level to help you. And learn something from higher level ppl in the process and watch their uber-weapons and spells. All that sounds way less boring to me than "my general level range".
Sounds rather like a WoW clone overall, it will probably do decent business on the strength of the IP and the WoW emulation, but it's boring to see another title that sounds as if it holds your hands the whole way and isn't much focused on risks or challenges. Then again the first few levels are rarely that challenging in anything.
Rather than yet more, 'choose which linear quest/class line from the set you wish to pursue' MMO's where are the inheritors to UO, a proper sandbox where you built your own story and place in the world, with the freedom to change direction and go somewhere else or become something different.
Just squint a bit so the graphics look less crappy and you're set.
Seriously people, after LOTRO, Turbine is going to be the new punchline for MMOG developer cracks - SoE will be so happy. I'm not sure why they spend all the money to obtain high-end IP to build games around, but you'd think they could bother make something with that IP that doesnt suck a golf ball through a garden hose.
Originally posted by Calandryll_T If you all liked what you read in that article, I'd highly recommend signing up for the Beta if you haven't already. We're going to be inviting a bunch of people over the coming weeks and months and it's a great opportunity to play the game and form your own opinions. http://www.lotro.com/betasignup
I signed up for beta a while back and I hope to get in and test it out. I agree with what Starman999 posted, try the game yourself to decide whether you like it or not. I have seen plenty of movies and played several games that I thought were great but they had a terrible rating by others.
Originally posted by Gorukha I dont see how the game is like WoW at all.
Icons above the questgivers heads? WoW is the only game I know of that has released this dummydown practice. It's completely unrealistic.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it." Brad McQuaid Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc. Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes www.vanguardsoh
Same old mass market mmo... I have been looking forward to Lotro for so long... bloody Quest Grinding again! I'm sick of static Worlds with mobs nicely mapped out with weak AI
Where is that virtual World we all dream about?
No innovation here, just the same old dry template with Tolken characters and landscape
But I very worried about the lack of characterisation.
I want Lotro to be not just a petty/fun MMORG I want it to be a world where I am immersed in the storyline and the world.
I want to create unique characters that are persistent in Middle earth for a long time. I want to play my part in the fight for good against the "gathering of the dark" integrated in the storyline but with other PPL as well as solo play.
So important for me are the ability of customise the appearance of my avarter. Also I want to live in Middle earth and will need a guildhall to meet up in and some real estate (perhaps to craft a dwelling) where I can keep items and memories.
I am worried that Turbine might be tempted to position Lotor in a solo direction in the thinking that they have group play covered in DDO. This sort of thinking seems weak to me. Cant see how a game charging a montly fee but that feels like a good offline game can have a long life. and dont believe MMOs are a mature enough to have this type of market segmention.
Maybe this stuff wont be aroung at launch and I'll try it because I am a Lotr fans. I just hope Turbine has a develope plan for lotro that is going keep me playing for years.
Makes me happy that the game is clearly improving. Good review, i hope the turbineteam has some time left to make thinks even better, maybe change that character creation a bit. Cause character is very important, its what you play with entire time. Good beta review. I've also seen a video beta review 12 minutes from a magazine so no internet nda law breakers. I'am happy you found that combat is not to slow i hope that it wont be to slow for me. INdeed the miss of emotion when battling could be why the battles arent that impressive. But overall promising. Hope they keep progressing.
Sturmrade, you seem to be posting quite a lot of responses to a game that you aren't even going to try. And I am infering that you think EQ was the greatest thing since sliced bread. You position against this game is wobley at best.
I enjoyed the review and having not yet gotten into the beta, it makes me want to play it that much more. Sounds like they reverted to the tried and true potatoe head format of character creation. This aspect will hopefully be overlooked by an abundance of equipment models. And as you said there is no reinventing of the wheel. What people must remember is, yes they want to make a truly great game, however, you'd be acting naive to say money was not a motivation. Over half the people playing an MMO are playing World of Warcraft. So to try and immitate the simplicity of WoW is only natural, you cannot fault them for that. The tricky part is adding innovations without making things complex. Is it complexity what I want? Damn straight. I'd love to see more difficutly. But bottom line, the average player doesn't want complexity or difficulty.
I hope they pull in a fresh batch of MMO players into a pretty stagnant player base.
Originally posted by Cerion Surprisingly, the negative reaction here to the review by Dana makes me want to play LOTRO even more!! I'm serious. The emotional, irrational rage some of you have intrigues me to the point of unbridled curiousity.
Play a Turbine game, your curiosity will evaporate (except AC1, that one was OK, a fluke it seems as time passes)
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
I am one of the biggest sceptics in MMO's, just look at my history in postings. But after reading this preview, I am seriously thinking about trying out this title. While a huge fan of Tolkens works, I was a first like the previewer , I wasn't impressed by anything that Turbine was saying about this coming MMO title. However after reading this preview, the key part that gets me is "I really felt immersion" that says it all. If you can play a title and get lost in the hours played then to look up and say "holy crap, it's been 5 hours" then you know you got a title with allot of playability in it.
I was sceptical for sure, but now, I think I will give this title a shot when it comes out.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Better that it follow the footsteps of World of Warcraft than that of EverQuest. EQ was all about work with very little that was fun. Its mechanics fostered addiction with meaningless time sinks and well manicured deterrents with its whole flagging system, key system and raid centric gameplay. While WoW ends up being raid centric in the end, up till 55, it was a very fun game, despite all of the hand holding / petting zoo quests and zones.
I will definitely give this game a try, but only if they reward all play styles equally. If I'm forced to raid in order to get the best gear, then they can take a flying leap off a very tall mountain. If group instances take more than 2 hour chunks of time to finish, then they can take another flying leap off a very tall building. If solo content is nothing more than a time filler till you can get a group or raid, then they can burn in hell for all eternity and they won't get a single dime from me : )
In other words, I have a lot of expectations that have to be met before I'll fund another MMO company. I am not at all happy with current MMO paradigms, the sheer eliticism and caste like systems they foster are not appealing.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
great game but pointless preview...Dana...you waffle on saying nothing about the game except that it is like every other fantasy mmo you have played - In other words only EQ?
I wanted to know about how the combat works. Is it as good as DDO (which I rate the best combat system available for a fantasy mmo)?
What made the game true to the Tolkien books? Is there the poetic history imbued through npc lore and intereaction?
What about weapon and armour and magic items? What is the core game mechanic in relation to this? Is it simply ripped off from WoW?
I am sure this game will be fantastic - just wish the previews could be too.
Comments
Luckily you dont seem like a person who has anything sensible to say, you wont be missed.
It was the truth. Is the truth not sensible?
Tough crowd indeed.
Luckily you dont seem like a person who has anything sensible to say, you wont be missed.
It was the truth. Is the truth not sensible?
Tough crowd indeed.
I would rather say it was his oppinion, and his oppinion dont seem to have much to do with my oppinion.
Great preview Dana, thanks for bringing it to us.
I do have to say though, every time I read about this game, the more and more I realize that it holds absolutely no interest for me and I would consider myself a huge Tolkien fan. Oh well, what can you do.
Can I blame them for taking a WoW approach to the game? Absolutely not, they want to appeal to a wide spectrum of players and I get that but what I've read, seen and heard, this game is absolutely not for me.
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It seemed that no matter what I was doing, the monsters around me were always in my general level range. "That's just good game design," Jeff Anderson told me.
So they pushed the easy button for a player. No probs, don't worry, mommy won't let you have a problem and won't let you die.
Sounds pretty boring. Excitement from being attacked by a killer monster (for your level) and dieing, escaping or even managing to kill it (with or without group) is more valuable to me. And what's wrong with mixing monsters and therefore players of different levels? Be careful, smart or form a group or ask higher level to help you. And learn something from higher level ppl in the process and watch their uber-weapons and spells. All that sounds way less boring to me than "my general level range".
I agree.
This reeks of safety net game play to me. I keep referring back to early EQ1 because that has been my favorite up until now. Zones in early EQ1 were more of a mixed bag, some easier mobs mixed in with more dangerous ones and sometimes that rare random spawn that would ravage everything in sight. That was exciting and kept me on my toes.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
Nice review, but I'm curious what the death penalty/mechanic for the game is?
Turbine lost me when they struck out with D&D Online. I'm VERY skeptical about LOTRO now. I don't like hand-holding ala WoW style, which sounds like that is what LOTRO is all about.
Surprisingly, the negative reaction here to the review by Dana makes me want to play LOTRO even more!! I'm serious. The emotional, irrational rage some of you have intrigues me to the point of unbridled curiousity.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
Rather than yet more, 'choose which linear quest/class line from the set you wish to pursue' MMO's where are the inheritors to UO, a proper sandbox where you built your own story and place in the world, with the freedom to change direction and go somewhere else or become something different.
Just squint a bit so the graphics look less crappy and you're set.
Seriously people, after LOTRO, Turbine is going to be the new punchline for MMOG developer cracks - SoE will be so happy. I'm not sure why they spend all the money to obtain high-end IP to build games around, but you'd think they could bother make something with that IP that doesnt suck a golf ball through a garden hose.
It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
Well, that and the large number of quests, anything that lessens the need to grind can't be a bad thing.
Sorry but looks just like WoW to me just without pvp.
"We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
www.vanguardsoh
Same old mass market mmo... I have been looking forward to Lotro for so long... bloody Quest Grinding again! I'm sick of static Worlds with mobs nicely mapped out with weak AI
Where is that virtual World we all dream about?
No innovation here, just the same old dry template with Tolken characters and landscape
What a dissapointment!
Good review.
But I very worried about the lack of characterisation.
I want Lotro to be not just a petty/fun MMORG I want it to be a world where I am immersed in the storyline and the world.
I want to create unique characters that are persistent in Middle earth for a long time. I want to play my part in the fight for good against the "gathering of the dark" integrated in the storyline but with other PPL as well as solo play.
So important for me are the ability of customise the appearance of my avarter. Also I want to live in Middle earth and will need a guildhall to meet up in and some real estate (perhaps to craft a dwelling) where I can keep items and memories.
I am worried that Turbine might be tempted to position Lotor in a solo direction in the thinking that they have group play covered in DDO. This sort of thinking seems weak to me. Cant see how a game charging a montly fee but that feels like a good offline game can have a long life. and dont believe MMOs are a mature enough to have this type of market segmention.
Maybe this stuff wont be aroung at launch and I'll try it because I am a Lotr fans. I just hope Turbine has a develope plan for lotro that is going keep me playing for years.
Sturmrade, you seem to be posting quite a lot of responses to a game that you aren't even going to try. And I am infering that you think EQ was the greatest thing since sliced bread. You position against this game is wobley at best.
I enjoyed the review and having not yet gotten into the beta, it makes me want to play it that much more. Sounds like they reverted to the tried and true potatoe head format of character creation. This aspect will hopefully be overlooked by an abundance of equipment models. And as you said there is no reinventing of the wheel. What people must remember is, yes they want to make a truly great game, however, you'd be acting naive to say money was not a motivation. Over half the people playing an MMO are playing World of Warcraft. So to try and immitate the simplicity of WoW is only natural, you cannot fault them for that. The tricky part is adding innovations without making things complex. Is it complexity what I want? Damn straight. I'd love to see more difficutly. But bottom line, the average player doesn't want complexity or difficulty.
I hope they pull in a fresh batch of MMO players into a pretty stagnant player base.
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
I was sceptical for sure, but now, I think I will give this title a shot when it comes out.
"The monster created isn't by the company that makes the game, it's by the fans that make it something it never was"
Better that it follow the footsteps of World of Warcraft than that of EverQuest. EQ was all about work with very little that was fun. Its mechanics fostered addiction with meaningless time sinks and well manicured deterrents with its whole flagging system, key system and raid centric gameplay. While WoW ends up being raid centric in the end, up till 55, it was a very fun game, despite all of the hand holding / petting zoo quests and zones.
I will definitely give this game a try, but only if they reward all play styles equally. If I'm forced to raid in order to get the best gear, then they can take a flying leap off a very tall mountain. If group instances take more than 2 hour chunks of time to finish, then they can take another flying leap off a very tall building. If solo content is nothing more than a time filler till you can get a group or raid, then they can burn in hell for all eternity and they won't get a single dime from me : )
In other words, I have a lot of expectations that have to be met before I'll fund another MMO company. I am not at all happy with current MMO paradigms, the sheer eliticism and caste like systems they foster are not appealing.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
great game but pointless preview...Dana...you waffle on saying nothing about the game except that it is like every other fantasy mmo you have played - In other words only EQ?
I wanted to know about how the combat works. Is it as good as DDO (which I rate the best combat system available for a fantasy mmo)?
What made the game true to the Tolkien books? Is there the poetic history imbued through npc lore and intereaction?
What about weapon and armour and magic items? What is the core game mechanic in relation to this? Is it simply ripped off from WoW?
I am sure this game will be fantastic - just wish the previews could be too.