Originally posted by SnaKey Originally posted by korvass Also entirely untrue. One thing you're forgetting in your blind, and quite idiotic hatred: without a flourishing PvE market, MMOs would have never survived. You think companies can become successful with FFA PvP alone?
EVE has been quite successful.
Carebears are essential in FFA PVP Games, but really to create a good market for the carebear crafters you need a constant flow of items through the system. Where as in games that don't support PVP Item Drop, you never lose your stuff. Never! So, then you get games like WoW where crafting is essentially completely and utterly useless. Nothing but a time and money sink.
Where as EVE, crafting is the core of the game. Without the FFA PVP, there would be no crafters. Those crafters keep everyone in supply while they go out and fight their battles against whoever they see as the enemy at the time. Undoubtably, EVE has the best economy of any MMO to date, as it should it was designed around the economy.
Let me rephrase then. Do people think that the MMO market as a whole would have survived and flourished, and become the beast it has today, on FFA PvP alone?
I can see Darkfall now with the new age of gamers...
"hi wil u b my frined and kil nub who is a haxor and let mi get his loot" then "haha u nub, i lied and im not ur frined i just said that so i could pwn u and steal stuffs"
Yea, I think I'll pass. FFA PVP is dead and needs to stay dead, sadly.
As for the whole 'adrenaline rush' thing... If you get them from playing games, you really need to go outside more.
Originally posted by M1sf1t Of course you compeletly ignored EQ2 which has the best crafting system for traditional PVE games right now in which you can make and sell items people want.
Oh, it may. I haven't played it. But I can garuntee the economy isn't nearly as good as it would be if you had a 50% of dropping 1 item that you're wearing when you die.
My post was geared towards the economics of it all. Which really, is why I play games more than any other reason. If you look down at my XFire sig and write my username backwards you will see.
I agree with Snakey... Items would be more valuable if you lost a piece of your armor permanently each time you died... however this does tend to make people angry.... Its not too bad if you die once or maybe even twice... but say you die ten times in a row or you keep getting ganked on a PVP server... That might make you want to play a different server or MMORPG game and eventually that would destroy that server or game except for the few higher level characters. I've noticed a lot of this in the games I've played and Im currently looking for a new one to try... Please let me know if you have any suggestions....
Originally posted by jado818 I agree with Snakey... Items would be more valuable if you lost a piece of your armor permanently each time you died... however this does tend to make people angry.... Its not too bad if you die once or maybe even twice... but say you die ten times in a row or you keep getting ganked on a PVP server... That might make you want to play a different server or MMORPG game and eventually that would destroy that server or game except for the few higher level characters. I've noticed a lot of this in the games I've played and Im currently looking for a new one to try... Please let me know if you have any suggestions.... Jack
Hmm... you just gave me a good idea.
I've played games where you can be put in jail if you PK in the wrong place which is dumb, but what if they made it where if you PK the same person more than once you're put in jail for 6hrs... no matter what.
That would get rid of alot of the players who make FFA PVP games bad for everyone. Dont' get me wrong, I love FFA PVP. But those players ruin it for everyone.
I'll PK your ass, but I'm not going to do it over and over and over and just camp the spot where you were hunting. That's just stupid.
I do it for the challenge.
The last game I was a PKer in (besides EVE) was a level based game. You were an even match with anyone 1 or 2 lvls of you, since lvls were a representation of your skills. I was PKing ppl with 5+ lvls on me everytime. How did I do it? I played smartly and camped a well known hunting ground alot of different players went to, where nbody would have any reason to stock up on antidotes. I would triple poison my axe and comense the slaughter. Of course you know it got to the point where ppl learned of my actions and carried lots of antidotes then PWND me till I lost everything I had. I went broke.
But you know what? It was a fucking blast for both me and them. We were all laughing and having a good time, because it's a game. It's meant to be fun. There was no animosity, it was just straight out fun.
That sounds like an extremely reasonable solution to the PVP problems I've faced in the past.... are there any games that use this type of PVP game play???
Im big fan of darkfall but how OP put it i do not agree with most he writes its to egocentric think that only a game like darkfall have it all and all who dont play it are in a loss lol thats stupid:P
OP are one of those kids who make darkfall look bad:(
Darkfall will be a hardcore pvp game yes with total freedom but not all will pk or gank every person they see darkfall have so much more then pk like idiots only those dumb kids 12years old do that:P
There will be crafters rp pk anti pve all is posible in darkfall.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
People like the topic starter, who plays FFA PVP games and brag about how 'tough' and 'brave' people are who play FFA PVP games, are, in real-life, mostly the complete reverse of the character they're playing in the game.
So, its actually quite sad, I really feel sorry for Luzario..
There's one thing I've found over the years in discussions with hardcore FFA PvP types: they don't understand that they will never be able to convince, coaxe or wheedle the non-hardcore PvP types to join in their "fun". It's a mindset issue.
There's been a lot of talk in this thread about EVE. I played EVE for a long time. There are a lot of hardcore PvPers in EVE, but the reality is that even in a game like EVE most of the players (indeed the vast majority of the players) prefer to play in "safe" space, as a cursory view of the in-game map easily reveals. CCP has tried every trick in the book to get these people into the FFA PvP zones, including altering risk/reward, placement of resources, introduction of new mechanics and ships and so forth that only have use in FFA zones and the like ... but have only had limited success in coaxing the so-called "carebears" into the FFA zone.
The reality is that the vast, vast, vast majority of gamers are way too risk averse to buy into FFA PvP. Even in FFA PvP games, like EVE, players will go to great ends to mitigate their risks either by avoiding the FFA areas entirely or by arming themselves to the hilt with escape mechanisms like instant bookmarks, instant safespots, WCS (which is the mechanic to avoid the EVE equivalent of a "root" spell) and the like. EVE is supposed to be about FFA PvP, but in reality it's a game of extreme risk management and confict avoidance techniques. When the hardcore PvPers themselves started using tactics like these openly (like Burn Eden using multi-WCS setups to avoid fights that were not of their choosing), I just had to laugh about how "hardcore" they consider themselves.
As I've said elsewhere, all hardcore PvP (ie, PvP where there are real consequences to losing) does is encourage risk-averse playstyles among most players. It's simply a fact.
Originally posted by Luzario If you're a carebear I just want to inform you that you will never ever experience the following great things that FFA PVP with item looting brings.
- You'll never ever experience what it is like to truly help other players.
- You'll never ever be "Good" or "Evil". You'll be nuetral which means you'll never get involved with any great struggle bigger than yourself. You're either "Good" fighting against "Evil", "Evil fighting against good" or just a frickin carebear who is too cowardly to risk anything.
- You'll never know what its like to have awesome friends in a mmorpg. Do you think friendships are stronger in an environment with FFA PVP or carebear pvp? Think about it.
- You'll never ever experience what it's like to avenge your best friends death and return his loot that he lost in PVP. You'll never ever experience what its like to defeat a Player Killer and return stolen loot back to the victim the PK killed.
- You'll never ever experience what its like to be ambushed at random by enemy pk's or to setup an ambush against unsuspecting enemies and taking all the loot that they have.
- You'll never ever feel the "adrenaline rush" that is associated with FFA PVP knowing if you die you will drop all the items on your body.
- You'll never get to truly experience what its like to actually "win" and actually "lose".
- You'll never ever get to experience how awesome it is to kill a PK who has been on a killing spree and low & behold he has so much loot on him you don't know what to do with.
- You'll never ever get to experience what its like to walk into town and people come up to you saying "Wow you're that one guy who kills all the pk's and helps other players"..
- You'll never get to experience a true community where players mold the game and not a stupid NPC quest.
- You'll never ever get to experience a mmorpg where player crafting is of the utmost importance.
In conclusion....
Keep playing your carebear games and you will never ever experience any of the above things.
Here is a quote you should think about..
"How do you know if someone is truly your friend if they haven't even had the chance to betray you?.. FFA PVP FTW".....
Think... Use your brain....
Visit www.darkfallonline.com ... Time to step up and become a man....
LuzArius
Well no shit sherlock. How would a stuffed toy line enjoy that stuff? They are inamate objects. They don't move, they don't think.
I only have one word for the opener... virgin. 50 bucks said the only time you've ever been touched was by yourself.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
I think I'll "step up and be a man" by calling out your insults in the simplest and most obvious way possible. If I were a PVE type, I'd think you are a rude little asshole. There is no way I'd want to play a round of checkers with you, let alone spend months in an MMORPG with you. Most of all I wouldn't want to stand around in some game where sticking you on the ignore list wouldn't be enough to keep your ashattery from bothering me.
Therefore, I won't play Darkfall. Anything else would be an act of sheer insanity. Problem solved for me. Exactly what I'd do if I were in a PVP game, try to get away. I've got so many choices now, I can get away completely.
People like you have the bestest ways of promoting what they like. Tell people they are inferrior and they will throw themselve to your feet and follow your advice. It isn't like any of those people are going to get defensive or conclude that their original opinions about the denizens of PVP games were right after all.
So very clever.
These threads are so freaking pathetic. I don't know what the hell you think you're going to accomplish other than making several people snort in derision before going back to their carebear games. That there are people that don't enjoy perpetual tension, severe item loss, or causing other people to suffer severe item loss doesn't even enter your consciousness does it? That's why they're not playing PVP games like Shadowbane or EVE already. Turning up and making the same post as a lord knows how many before you is about as convincing as spitting on my shoes before trying to sell me a game.
Does a scene like this play out when you type this up? Carebear#1: Why, look at this #2! This fellow is insulting us and everything we like! Carebear#2: What?! Let me see that! Hmm... Well, I guess we should do what he says now. Carebear#1: I will call all of our Carebear friends and ensure we all embrace his ways.
Personally I think it'd go more like: Carebear#1: Why, look at this #2! This fellow is insulting us and everything we like! Carebear#2: PAH Insolence! Gather our forces, we shall go on an 8-hour raid for epics in World of Warcraft before we renew our subscriptions and pre-order Burning Crusade. Ensuring that the mighty Blizzard becomes even richer and more powerful so that it may usher in an age where all he hates will dominate the landscape. His world will be an endless vista... of despair and torment! Carebear#1: Bwahahaha! Hail Satan! Hail Satan! Carebear#2: Bwahahaha! Hail Satan! Hail Satan!
I happen to like pvp also and even played that disaster of a game Shadowbane and hop on Guild Wars everyonce inawhile. I was in early beta for Neocron and loved throwing down in the Industrial areas or the wastelands. My favorite part of DAoC was the pvp part. The best time was when I had my merc standing on the first landing from the top of the main tower of the center bg castle. The rush of holding off all those middies while clerics healing me out of sight of the invaders. The battle was epic and when I finally went down, I was surrounded by corpses of middies.
Yes I enjoy a good pvp time but I can not understand why so many of my fellow pvpers feel like they have to attack the "carebears."(I think this term screwed up) You need to stop giving a damn about the people who don't want to play pvp. Personally I don't want everybody getting into the pvp part because then it gets too crowded and ruins the play. Also, yes some don't play because they are afraid to get ganked but I know for a fact the most just don't want to play pvp.
Why don't people undestand that just because they like something doesn't mean everybody will. I love heavy metal music. My girlfriend doesn't. I don't slam her for it or try to force her to listen to it. She likes Shakira and Aguilera(sp?) and I don't but she doesn't label me with a derogatory name and try to force me to listen to it. This pvp vs. pve playing style is the same thing.
Just leave them alone because I'm getting tired of this freaking old arguement.
Originally posted by Otlano Something I don't understand here.....I happen to like pvp also and even played that disaster of a game Shadowbane and hop on Guild Wars everyonce inawhile. I was in early beta for Neocron and loved throwing down in the Industrial areas or the wastelands. My favorite part of DAoC was the pvp part. The best time was when I had my merc standing on the first landing from the top of the main tower of the center bg castle. The rush of holding off all those middies while clerics healing me out of sight of the invaders. The battle was epic and when I finally went down, I was surrounded by corpses of middies.Yes I enjoy a good pvp time but I can not understand why so many of my fellow pvpers feel like they have to attack the "carebears."(I think this term screwed up) You need to stop giving a damn about the people who don't want to play pvp. Personally I don't want everybody getting into the pvp part because then it gets too crowded and ruins the play. Also, yes some don't play because they are afraid to get ganked but I know for a fact the most just don't want to play pvp.Why don't people undestand that just because they like something doesn't mean everybody will. I love heavy metal music. My girlfriend doesn't. I don't slam her for it or try to force her to listen to it. She likes Shakira and Aguilera(sp?) and I don't but she doesn't label me with a derogatory name and try to force me to listen to it. This pvp vs. pve playing style is the same thing.Just leave them alone because I'm getting tired of this freaking old arguement.
Honestly I think the reason why they don't is that they want more people to kill.
Iin my opinion you refer more to PVP combat in online Games than Role playing.
And actually i think that you refer to a game that does not exists yet since Darkfall is not released and games in Beta are far more different when they are released and face the massive world interactions between players, especially PVP ones.
Carebears did not came out of nowhere just because they could not play men's Online Games as you imply. There have been tremendous problems in full PVP (chaotic PVP to some people) games.
The Carebear Concept was created because of the imbalance in Full PVP games since there have not been mechanisms to differentiate a true PVP warrior from a player killer - exploiter which actually never suffered from community penalties like in real life.
Many people that have played and got killed many times from the "noble" warriors you refer, have different opinion about fun since there are many ways to evolute a character in MMOs than fighting and killing someone that just wants to do a quest, or someone that simply has lower level than you.
Player killing was the actual problem. It is not actually a matter of skills to survive against others but mostly an advantage you have because you are high leveled, outnumbered, or because your lag is a few hundred times better than others that try to figure why you move so fast and you never seem to get hurt from their blows.
Practical problems like these created, instance games and non PVP environments in which more people can enjoy an online game without having to be a few miles away from the server and wait for someone to lose some Hit points and after attack him in large groups.
Ultima Online back in 1997 had tried to implement all the things you mention in your post but failed totally. Everyone in Ultima after a time realised that easy loot was someone else's loot so:
1. Groups of Pk's were waiting outside of dungeons or they were hiding until their victims HP were low.
2. Imbalance of skills led to 2 main types of PVP players. Mages and archers. No room for melee combat and other proffesions.
3. Attackers had the great advantage of the first strike which due to imbalance was the most crucial.
4. Everyone was creating many types of characters, some for combat and some for crafting and this led to economy imbalance since everyone was selling and nobody was buying.
5. Many exploits had been used which even the best efforts of UO team could not eliminate, just warnings to exploiters and nothing more.
6. World evolution stopped, war and chaos worked exactly as in real life.
7. It was no fun anymore, many people that liked crafting and non combat professions stopped and there have been only 2 types of players. Agressors and defenders.
After many customers left (Carebears for us annoyed people for others) UO changed completely it's concept, and now it gives abilities to people like item insurance and things that make it more a Carebear Game than the virtual world was trying to be many years ago.
If you thing that Darkfall has faced and solved these and many other problems of released games then i will give it a go but please don't rush in your conclusions about Carebearing and man talk since there has not been a gaming company that has ignored customer suggestions (demands), so don't be surprised if darkfall after is released transforms into a carebear game like every one around.
I am fond of chaotic PVP and Sandbox games too but i am not the kind that has transformed my pleasure for PVP to other people's annoyance and anger.
LOL at all the people arguing over such a silly thread. The OP needs to get over his Little Man Syndrome and realize that a game matching his description hasn't existed in a long time (and by some arguments, never existed to begin with). If Darkfall does manage to finally get released, it will certainly not be what the OP seems to have imagined.
I feel pity for all those who feel it's necessary to play FFA PvP to prove how "manly" they are.
Originally posted by SnaKey Oh that's what you're talking about? So in other words you never read the OP's OP then? Of course you're not going to get it back the next day. You would have to be an idiot to even think that, but you can get it back when you go to guild chat and get all your buddies to go out there and get him while he's still out there.
So, it's an event that can only happen if you happen to be playing when your buddy gets attacked and drop whatever else you were doing and the guy doesn't just logoff or leave when a bunch of you come into the area? The OP presented it like it was a routine part of gameplay, when instead it's something that you might manage once in a great while and that only if the ganker doesn't make good use of the tools availible to him (like a hauler/mule alt to store loot in that can hide behind a logout).
Or you could extract revenge the next day and take some of his shit. Because what he's carrying is probably going to be better than what you're buddy lost, since he's already sold what you're buddy lost, and everything he's gotten from everyone else.
No, he'll be wearing something pretty much disposeable, since that's what they do in this kind of game. For all of the babble about risk vs reward, FFA PVP is generally about risking little for larger rewards.
Like I said, a brick wall. Because you really truely believe you know what you're talking about when in reality you're not even close on any the arguments you have presented. .
Funny how you haven't actually shown that I'm not even close, just yelled about it. You're definately a typical FFA PVP 'advocate', a shining example of why people want nothing to do with your games; for all of your ranting, you haven't actually shown that anything I've said was wrong, you've just picked one part and raved about it for a while hoping I'll get scared off. It's doubly funny since you made such a big deal about alignment in your first gripe and now don't even mention it after I nailed head-on exactly how little such an alignment system would mean.
I'm not trying to generalize but as soon as someone realizes they are not 100% safe and might lose an item if they die they tend to uninstall the game.
Carebear or not people think paying a monthly fee grants them some kind of reward no matter how the game was coded.
People want to "hit-teh-buttons" and get something in return.
They want to jump into the game and have everything handed to them.
A lot of people can't stomach the 100% PVP games because the first thing they want to do when they log in is start doing fedex or "smash-teh-keys' hunting quests.
Its not so much the players, its the weak developers that give in to player demands thinking all the players want those changes. Once developers start changing a game to fit someones personal playstyle they are going to run into some problems.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
PVP games are competitive sports. There is a winner and a loser, and an incentive to be one and not the other.
PVE games are everyone's a winner sports. Nobody is actually a winner, but nobody is a loser either. You've made talent irrelevant in favor of just showing up.
I know which I prefer to play. Although I think a sports analogy is probably a mistake on a board with so many MMOG-addicted children.
PVP games are to Big Macs as PVE games are to Happy Meals.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
Originally posted by Briansho I'm not trying to generalize but as soon as someone realizes they are not 100% safe and might lose an item if they die they tend to uninstall the game.
Carebear or not people think paying a monthly fee grants them some kind of reward no matter how the game was coded.
People want to "hit-teh-buttons" and get something in return.
They want to jump into the game and have everything handed to them.
A lot of people can't stomach the 100% PVP games because the first thing they want to do when they log in is start doing fedex or "smash-teh-keys' hunting quests.
Its not so much the players, its the weak developers that give in to player demands thinking all the players want those changes. Once developers start changing a game to fit someones personal playstyle they are going to run into some problems.
Or maybe the majority of us don't want to be ganked by a bunch of fat over/underaged pale losers that only get to feel dominate when they unite with other losers like them selves and go around ganking other people online.
I have no problem with the full PVP or even Permadeath (watches all the so called 'hardcore PVPers' back up) I do have a problem with people online that suddenly catch courage when they have 20 other guild mates holding their hand.
------------------------------ You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
Comments
EVE has been quite successful.
Carebears are essential in FFA PVP Games, but really to create a good market for the carebear crafters you need a constant flow of items through the system. Where as in games that don't support PVP Item Drop, you never lose your stuff. Never! So, then you get games like WoW where crafting is essentially completely and utterly useless. Nothing but a time and money sink.
Where as EVE, crafting is the core of the game. Without the FFA PVP, there would be no crafters. Those crafters keep everyone in supply while they go out and fight their battles against whoever they see as the enemy at the time. Undoubtably, EVE has the best economy of any MMO to date, as it should it was designed around the economy.
Let me rephrase then. Do people think that the MMO market as a whole would have survived and flourished, and become the beast it has today, on FFA PvP alone?
I can see Darkfall now with the new age of gamers...
"hi
wil u b my frined and kil nub who is a haxor and let mi get his loot"
then "haha u nub, i lied and im not ur frined i just said that so i
could pwn u and steal stuffs"
Yea, I think I'll pass. FFA PVP is dead and needs to stay dead, sadly.
As for the whole 'adrenaline rush' thing... If you get them from playing games, you really need to go outside more.
Oh, it may. I haven't played it. But I can garuntee the economy isn't nearly as good as it would be if you had a 50% of dropping 1 item that you're wearing when you die.
My post was geared towards the economics of it all. Which really, is why I play games more than any other reason. If you look down at my XFire sig and write my username backwards you will see.
A Work in Progress.
Add Me
I agree with Snakey... Items would be more valuable if you lost a piece of your armor permanently each time you died... however this does tend to make people angry.... Its not too bad if you die once or maybe even twice... but say you die ten times in a row or you keep getting ganked on a PVP server... That might make you want to play a different server or MMORPG game and eventually that would destroy that server or game except for the few higher level characters. I've noticed a lot of this in the games I've played and Im currently looking for a new one to try... Please let me know if you have any suggestions....
Jack
Hmm... you just gave me a good idea.
I've played games where you can be put in jail if you PK in the wrong place which is dumb, but what if they made it where if you PK the same person more than once you're put in jail for 6hrs... no matter what.
That would get rid of alot of the players who make FFA PVP games bad for everyone. Dont' get me wrong, I love FFA PVP. But those players ruin it for everyone.
I'll PK your ass, but I'm not going to do it over and over and over and just camp the spot where you were hunting. That's just stupid.
I do it for the challenge.
The last game I was a PKer in (besides EVE) was a level based game. You were an even match with anyone 1 or 2 lvls of you, since lvls were a representation of your skills. I was PKing ppl with 5+ lvls on me everytime. How did I do it? I played smartly and camped a well known hunting ground alot of different players went to, where nbody would have any reason to stock up on antidotes. I would triple poison my axe and comense the slaughter.
Of course you know it got to the point where ppl learned of my actions and carried lots of antidotes then PWND me till I lost everything I had. I went broke.
But you know what? It was a fucking blast for both me and them. We were all laughing and having a good time, because it's a game. It's meant to be fun. There was no animosity, it was just straight out fun.
A Work in Progress.
Add Me
Im big fan of darkfall but how OP put it i do not agree with most he writes its to egocentric think that only a game like darkfall have it all and all who dont play it are in a loss lol thats stupid:P
OP are one of those kids who make darkfall look bad:(
Darkfall will be a hardcore pvp game yes with total freedom but not all will pk or gank every person they see darkfall have so much more then pk like idiots only those dumb kids 12years old do that:P
There will be crafters rp pk anti pve all is posible in darkfall.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
So, its actually quite sad, I really feel sorry for Luzario..
*Plays a tune on the world's smallest violin*
There's one thing I've found over the years in discussions with hardcore FFA PvP types: they don't understand that they will never be able to convince, coaxe or wheedle the non-hardcore PvP types to join in their "fun". It's a mindset issue.
There's been a lot of talk in this thread about EVE. I played EVE for a long time. There are a lot of hardcore PvPers in EVE, but the reality is that even in a game like EVE most of the players (indeed the vast majority of the players) prefer to play in "safe" space, as a cursory view of the in-game map easily reveals. CCP has tried every trick in the book to get these people into the FFA PvP zones, including altering risk/reward, placement of resources, introduction of new mechanics and ships and so forth that only have use in FFA zones and the like ... but have only had limited success in coaxing the so-called "carebears" into the FFA zone.
The reality is that the vast, vast, vast majority of gamers are way too risk averse to buy into FFA PvP. Even in FFA PvP games, like EVE, players will go to great ends to mitigate their risks either by avoiding the FFA areas entirely or by arming themselves to the hilt with escape mechanisms like instant bookmarks, instant safespots, WCS (which is the mechanic to avoid the EVE equivalent of a "root" spell) and the like. EVE is supposed to be about FFA PvP, but in reality it's a game of extreme risk management and confict avoidance techniques. When the hardcore PvPers themselves started using tactics like these openly (like Burn Eden using multi-WCS setups to avoid fights that were not of their choosing), I just had to laugh about how "hardcore" they consider themselves.
As I've said elsewhere, all hardcore PvP (ie, PvP where there are real consequences to losing) does is encourage risk-averse playstyles among most players. It's simply a fact.
I only have one word for the opener... virgin. 50 bucks said the only time you've ever been touched was by yourself.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
I think I'll "step up and be a man" by calling out your insults in the simplest and most obvious way possible. If I were a PVE type, I'd think you are a rude little asshole. There is no way I'd want to play a round of checkers with you, let alone spend months in an MMORPG with you. Most of all I wouldn't want to stand around in some game where sticking you on the ignore list wouldn't be enough to keep your ashattery from bothering me.
Therefore, I won't play Darkfall. Anything else would be an act of sheer insanity. Problem solved for me. Exactly what I'd do if I were in a PVP game, try to get away. I've got so many choices now, I can get away completely.
People like you have the bestest ways of promoting what they like. Tell people they are inferrior and they will throw themselve to your feet and follow your advice. It isn't like any of those people are going to get defensive or conclude that their original opinions about the denizens of PVP games were right after all.
So very clever.
These threads are so freaking pathetic. I don't know what the hell you think you're going to accomplish other than making several people snort in derision before going back to their carebear games. That there are people that don't enjoy perpetual tension, severe item loss, or causing other people to suffer severe item loss doesn't even enter your consciousness does it? That's why they're not playing PVP games like Shadowbane or EVE already. Turning up and making the same post as a lord knows how many before you is about as convincing as spitting on my shoes before trying to sell me a game.
Does a scene like this play out when you type this up?
Carebear#1: Why, look at this #2! This fellow is insulting us and everything we like!
Carebear#2: What?! Let me see that! Hmm... Well, I guess we should do what he says now.
Carebear#1: I will call all of our Carebear friends and ensure we all embrace his ways.
Personally I think it'd go more like:
Carebear#1: Why, look at this #2! This fellow is insulting us and everything we like!
Carebear#2: PAH Insolence! Gather our forces, we shall go on an 8-hour raid for epics in World of Warcraft before we renew our subscriptions and pre-order Burning Crusade. Ensuring that the mighty Blizzard becomes even richer and more powerful so that it may usher in an age where all he hates will dominate the landscape. His world will be an endless vista... of despair and torment!
Carebear#1: Bwahahaha! Hail Satan! Hail Satan!
Carebear#2: Bwahahaha! Hail Satan! Hail Satan!
Something I don't understand here.....
I happen to like pvp also and even played that disaster of a game Shadowbane and hop on Guild Wars everyonce inawhile. I was in early beta for Neocron and loved throwing down in the Industrial areas or the wastelands. My favorite part of DAoC was the pvp part. The best time was when I had my merc standing on the first landing from the top of the main tower of the center bg castle. The rush of holding off all those middies while clerics healing me out of sight of the invaders. The battle was epic and when I finally went down, I was surrounded by corpses of middies.
Yes I enjoy a good pvp time but I can not understand why so many of my fellow pvpers feel like they have to attack the "carebears."(I think this term screwed up) You need to stop giving a damn about the people who don't want to play pvp. Personally I don't want everybody getting into the pvp part because then it gets too crowded and ruins the play. Also, yes some don't play because they are afraid to get ganked but I know for a fact the most just don't want to play pvp.
Why don't people undestand that just because they like something doesn't mean everybody will. I love heavy metal music. My girlfriend doesn't. I don't slam her for it or try to force her to listen to it. She likes Shakira and Aguilera(sp?) and I don't but she doesn't label me with a derogatory name and try to force me to listen to it. This pvp vs. pve playing style is the same thing.
Just leave them alone because I'm getting tired of this freaking old arguement.
- I'll never experience a need to give a damn about what anyone else thinks about how I like to play games.
Iin my opinion you refer more to PVP combat in online Games than Role playing.
And actually i think that you refer to a game that does not exists yet since Darkfall is not released and games in Beta are far more different when they are released and face the massive world interactions between players, especially PVP ones.
Carebears did not came out of nowhere just because they could not play men's Online Games as you imply. There have been tremendous problems in full PVP (chaotic PVP to some people) games.
The Carebear Concept was created because of the imbalance in Full PVP games since there have not been mechanisms to differentiate a true PVP warrior from a player killer - exploiter which actually never suffered from community penalties like in real life.
Many people that have played and got killed many times from the "noble" warriors you refer, have different opinion about fun since there are many ways to evolute a character in MMOs than fighting and killing someone that just wants to do a quest, or someone that simply has lower level than you.
Player killing was the actual problem. It is not actually a matter of skills to survive against others but mostly an advantage you have because you are high leveled, outnumbered, or because your lag is a few hundred times better than others that try to figure why you move so fast and you never seem to get hurt from their blows.
Practical problems like these created, instance games and non PVP environments in which more people can enjoy an online game without having to be a few miles away from the server and wait for someone to lose some Hit points and after attack him in large groups.
Ultima Online back in 1997 had tried to implement all the things you mention in your post but failed totally. Everyone in Ultima after a time realised that easy loot was someone else's loot so:
1. Groups of Pk's were waiting outside of dungeons or they were hiding until their victims HP were low.
2. Imbalance of skills led to 2 main types of PVP players. Mages and archers. No room for melee combat and other proffesions.
3. Attackers had the great advantage of the first strike which due to imbalance was the most crucial.
4. Everyone was creating many types of characters, some for combat and some for crafting and this led to economy imbalance since everyone was selling and nobody was buying.
5. Many exploits had been used which even the best efforts of UO team could not eliminate, just warnings to exploiters and nothing more.
6. World evolution stopped, war and chaos worked exactly as in real life.
7. It was no fun anymore, many people that liked crafting and non combat professions stopped and there have been only 2 types of players. Agressors and defenders.
After many customers left (Carebears for us annoyed people for others) UO changed completely it's concept, and now it gives abilities to people like item insurance and things that make it more a Carebear Game than the virtual world was trying to be many years ago.
If you thing that Darkfall has faced and solved these and many other problems of released games then i will give it a go but please don't rush in your conclusions about Carebearing and man talk since there has not been a gaming company that has ignored customer suggestions (demands), so don't be surprised if darkfall after is released transforms into a carebear game like every one around.
I am fond of chaotic PVP and Sandbox games too but i am not the kind that has transformed my pleasure for PVP to other people's annoyance and anger.
LOL at all the people arguing over such a silly thread. The OP needs to get over his Little Man Syndrome and realize that a game matching his description hasn't existed in a long time (and by some arguments, never existed to begin with). If Darkfall does manage to finally get released, it will certainly not be what the OP seems to have imagined.
I feel pity for all those who feel it's necessary to play FFA PvP to prove how "manly" they are.
So, it's an event that can only happen if you happen to be playing when your buddy gets attacked and drop whatever else you were doing and the guy doesn't just logoff or leave when a bunch of you come into the area? The OP presented it like it was a routine part of gameplay, when instead it's something that you might manage once in a great while and that only if the ganker doesn't make good use of the tools availible to him (like a hauler/mule alt to store loot in that can hide behind a logout).
No, he'll be wearing something pretty much disposeable, since that's what they do in this kind of game. For all of the babble about risk vs reward, FFA PVP is generally about risking little for larger rewards.
Funny how you haven't actually shown that I'm not even close, just yelled about it. You're definately a typical FFA PVP 'advocate', a shining example of why people want nothing to do with your games; for all of your ranting, you haven't actually shown that anything I've said was wrong, you've just picked one part and raved about it for a while hoping I'll get scared off. It's doubly funny since you made such a big deal about alignment in your first gripe and now don't even mention it after I nailed head-on exactly how little such an alignment system would mean.
Carebear or not people think paying a monthly fee grants them some kind of reward no matter how the game was coded.
People want to "hit-teh-buttons" and get something in return.
They want to jump into the game and have everything handed to them.
A lot of people can't stomach the 100% PVP games because the first thing they want to do when they log in is start doing fedex or "smash-teh-keys' hunting quests.
Its not so much the players, its the weak developers that give in to player demands thinking all the players want those changes. Once developers start changing a game to fit someones personal playstyle they are going to run into some problems.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
PVE games are everyone's a winner sports. Nobody is actually a winner, but nobody is a loser either. You've made talent irrelevant in favor of just showing up.
I know which I prefer to play. Although I think a sports analogy is probably a mistake on a board with so many MMOG-addicted children.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
I have no problem with the full PVP or even Permadeath (watches all the so called 'hardcore PVPers' back up) I do have a problem with people online that suddenly catch courage when they have 20 other guild mates holding their hand.
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You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith