Veteran MMOGer coming back (maybe) - Any games with the following?

Thinman · November 2006

Hey all,

I'm most likely going to get back into MMOGs again for the long cold winter.. I've been outside the loop for a bit. I'm wondering if there are any games out with some of if not all of the following features.

I can't stress enough that I'm looking for a game that is in beta testing or has come out in the last few months.

The features that I'm looking for are:

PvP; Real consenquences for death.. something along the lines of Eve Online.
There is an actual end to the game at various intervals - There are real winners and losers at the end of each interval. Maybe 3 month rounds, maybe 1 month. If not this feature, then:
A game world that actually changes and is effected by the players. The only example that I can think of is Eve. Any others?
Based on player skill. (I know, this is probably a pipe dream.)

I know some people will reflexively say "play eve online".. I would, but I want a game that's just starting so I don't feel like a very small fish in the game world. I want to get into a game that's just about to release (or even that won't release for 6 months, and get in the beta), so that the playing field is even when I get into it.

I've thought about DAOC again - Is Mythic still making some classes overpowered and doing nothing to balance the realms on individual servers?

I don't care whether the game is a blockbuster or an indie game or anything. As long as it is quality.

I'm looking into Armada Online - seems interesting, but I don't know much about how persistent the world is or really much at all about it - the website is rather vague.

Anyone have any other recommendations? Forget MMOGs entirely? Or is there something worthwhile out there to play right now?

Thanks for any help.

brian72282 · November 2006

Dark Solstice- www.solsticeserver.com

Thinman · November 2006

Originally posted by brian72282
Dark Solstice- www.solsticeserver.com

Well this is pretty cool.. It does look good. I went to sign up for beta seeing that they're sending out invitations on the 15th - I'm already signed up. Maybe I'll get in.

3 days away - something to look forward to/hope for.

shae · November 2006

Hiya Thin, welcome back.

Unfortunately there isn't alot of competition based MMOs out, which seems along the lines your looking for, where one side wins something of value over a period of time. Right there that discounts alot of the big ones like SWG, FFXI, MxO, WoW, EQ2, SoR, RF, DDO, CoX and so on.

Depending on how you feel abut the style, you may want to look into L2. There is ALOT of competetive PVP, there's castle sieging where clan war against other clans for control of key castles around Aden, theres also something called the Seven Signs which are bascially two religions fighting it out for power, depending on who wins (doing various quests and pvp actions) the members of that religion gets benefits/buffs/stuff.

PVP in L2 actually relies quite a bit on skill, although not exclusively of course as there exists a line that skill just simply will not beat. For example, a lvl 60 mage could probably compete with a lvl 70 mage if they had comparable armor/weapons and the fight would be won by skill BUT if that mage has top A everything (weapons/armor/jewly) then the poor lvl 60 is pretty much done in for.

Sadly there's also some negatives that come along with the game, it can be a beast in terms of grinding as it's not a hand holding game and the quests are not particularly engaging, it's also very Coin driven (adena in game) so your ALWAYS saving up for something and finally the bots can sometimes really spoil the immersiveness of the environment. The community is fair but can be tough to get into although I suggest popping onto the forums and usually you'll get a /whisper the next time you log in offering all sorts of help.

In any case, it might be worth looking into for you. Best of luck on yor return.

Thinman · November 2006

Originally posted by shae

Hiya Thin, welcome back.
Unfortunately there isn't alot of competition based MMOs out, which seems along the lines your looking for, where one side wins something of value over a period of time. Right there that discounts alot of the big ones like SWG, FFXI, MxO, WoW, EQ2, SoR, RF, DDO, CoX and so on.
Depending on how you feel abut the style, you may want to look into L2. There is ALOT of competetive PVP, there's castle sieging where clan war against other clans for control of key castles around Aden, theres also something called the Seven Signs which are bascially two religions fighting it out for power, depending on who wins (doing various quests and pvp actions) the members of that religion gets benefits/buffs/stuff.
PVP in L2 actually relies quite a bit on skill, although not exclusively of course as there exists a line that skill just simply will not beat. For example, a lvl 60 mage could probably compete with a lvl 70 mage if they had comparable armor/weapons and the fight would be won by skill BUT if that mage has top A everything (weapons/armor/jewly) then the poor lvl 60 is pretty much done in for.
Sadly there's also some negatives that come along with the game, it can be a beast in terms of grinding as it's not a hand holding game and the quests are not particularly engaging, it's also very Coin driven (adena in game) so your ALWAYS saving up for something and finally the bots can sometimes really spoil the immersiveness of the environment. The community is fair but can be tough to get into although I suggest popping onto the forums and usually you'll get a /whisper the next time you log in offering all sorts of help.
In any case, it might be worth looking into for you. Best of luck on yor return.

Hey shae,

I suppose some level of competition is something that I'm looking for. I'm looking for something more than that, though. Let me explain..

I've recently gotten back into gaming in general, more than just MMOGs, once again.

It is painfully obvious to me that I can't find enjoyment anymore in the "standard fare" that is out there right now, meaning 95% of the big-name games that are released... basically any game that would be found on store shelves, pretty much.

I'm sure we're all aware at this point of the stifling effect that has overtaken the gaming industry, in the last 5-10 years.

The fact that a game is considered innovative, simply by having a small feature change over a previous game (as an example, in the RTS genre, very small changes between games, and yet they're considered "groundbreaking"), clearly shows that the industry is in danger of grinding to a creative halt.

However, I've been searching around the net, and apparently there is still hope - in indie developers. I've done a bit of digging, and found sites like:

http://www.gametunnel.com/

http://www.experimentalgameplay.com/

http://www.igf.com/02finalists.html

These sites are focused around indie gaming in general.. a lot of people don't know it at this point, but indie games are about to go pretty mainstream.

So, what's the big deal about indie games? They aren't constrained by the big publishers telling them what to make, so it is here, in indie gaming, where the real innovations, and new types of games, and new types of gameplay, are being formed.

RTS's that aren't anything like previous RTS's.. games where you run pubs, where you run a space station, where you mow lawns as a teenager.. games where you are in mexico fighting in your car for vigilante justice. These are all games that are out there, and they're very, very well done, and they're way more fun than all the tired, rehashed, redone, copied, cloned, boring, stale, monotonous trash that's been made by the big publishers as of late.

The thing of it is, these games are made by people who say "screw the money, I'm going to make something that I really care about".. they have a creative vision, and they channel that into a truly fun game. It's like enthusiasm - it's contagious. If a person loves making the game, the player is going to love playing it.

If a person doesn't like their job and only is there to make a big paycheck, the game will have no passion to it, and will not be enjoyable to play.

So what I'm saying is, I'm wondering if there's any MMOGs out there, that are absolutely nothing like previous MMOGs. Eve Online is a perfect example of this, but it's been around too long for what I'm looking for.

I do want a competitive MMOG, but none of the major, most well-known games that have come out recently would fit what I'm looking for. Eve fits it, DAOC fit it, though it was poorly managed.

I'm wondering if there are any others.

Fozzie_Bear · November 2006

it sounds like you want to play eve, so go play it and stop crying about it being an older game..

Thinman · November 2006

Originally posted by Fozzie_Bear
it sounds like you want to play eve, so go play it and stop crying about it being an older game..

If I wanted to play Eve, I would say that I wanted to play Eve. Thanks for the advice, but I'm not interested.

With that out of the way.... the question still is out there. Dark Solstice seems quite good.. I'm looking into Armada Online as well. If anyone has a game that they know about, throw it out there.

complexiator · November 2006

Ok, since you are looking for somthing that is still in development I can recomend www.fomportal.com. It has the features you required. Slow development has kept the population low since you need to p2p. But I'm confident that when the developers finish up the things they are working on the population will rise to an apropriate level.

Fogel · November 2006

I say forget MMO's in general. This is a tired genre that has been surviving off copying a tired formula for too long with a severe lack of any real innovation. Much of what you are looking for could help to inject interesting innovation into the genre, but as long as people by the millions are paying to play the tired formula don't expect it to change.

I think you would have a lot of fun playing an online shooter.

LHOO · November 2006

i would like to say Ryzom Ring. I love it so much, the mature community is the reason.

exanimo · November 2006

dont play guildwars

first its not a mmo

second you will hate it , no grind , ultra balanced pvp , fast paced like fps games ... its insane

busdriver · November 2006

Originally posted by Thinman

Hey shae,

I suppose some level of competition is something that I'm looking for. I'm looking for something more than that, though. Let me explain..

I've recently gotten back into gaming in general, more than just MMOGs, once again.

It is painfully obvious to me that I can't find enjoyment anymore in the "standard fare" that is out there right now, meaning 95% of the big-name games that are released... basically any game that would be found on store shelves, pretty much.

I'm sure we're all aware at this point of the stifling effect that has overtaken the gaming industry, in the last 5-10 years.

The fact that a game is considered innovative, simply by having a small feature change over a previous game (as an example, in the RTS genre, very small changes between games, and yet they're considered "groundbreaking"), clearly shows that the industry is in danger of grinding to a creative halt.

However, I've been searching around the net, and apparently there is still hope - in indie developers. I've done a bit of digging, and found sites like:

http://www.gametunnel.com/

http://www.experimentalgameplay.com/

http://www.igf.com/02finalists.html

These sites are focused around indie gaming in general.. a lot of people don't know it at this point, but indie games are about to go pretty mainstream.

So, what's the big deal about indie games? They aren't constrained by the big publishers telling them what to make, so it is here, in indie gaming, where the real innovations, and new types of games, and new types of gameplay, are being formed.

RTS's that aren't anything like previous RTS's.. games where you run pubs, where you run a space station, where you mow lawns as a teenager.. games where you are in mexico fighting in your car for vigilante justice. These are all games that are out there, and they're very, very well done, and they're way more fun than all the tired, rehashed, redone, copied, cloned, boring, stale, monotonous trash that's been made by the big publishers as of late.

The thing of it is, these games are made by people who say "screw the money, I'm going to make something that I really care about".. they have a creative vision, and they channel that into a truly fun game. It's like enthusiasm - it's contagious. If a person loves making the game, the player is going to love playing it.

If a person doesn't like their job and only is there to make a big paycheck, the game will have no passion to it, and will not be enjoyable to play.

So what I'm saying is, I'm wondering if there's any MMOGs out there, that are absolutely nothing like previous MMOGs. Eve Online is a perfect example of this, but it's been around too long for what I'm looking for.

I do want a competitive MMOG, but none of the major, most well-known games that have come out recently would fit what I'm looking for. Eve fits it, DAOC fit it, though it was poorly managed.

I'm wondering if there are any others.

No, there aren't any games like that, so stop wasting your time. How do I know? Becasue I have been looking for the very same thing. Trust me, there are none.

You can put your faith to some games in development, but there is always the chance of getting disapointed. If you willing to take the risk, then look into Darkfall because I think it's EXACTLY what you're looking for.

Thinman · November 2006

No, there aren't any games like that, so stop wasting your time. How do I know? Becasue I have been looking for the very same thing. Trust me, there are none.

You can put your faith to some games in development, but there is always the chance of getting disapointed. If you willing to take the risk, then look into Darkfall because I think it's EXACTLY what you're looking for.

Thanks busdriver. Maybe that's all that I needed to hear.

I'm getting a new compter soon which is roughly 1003.5% faster than my old one.. so I can play all of the 3D action games that I wasn't able to play before. There are literally 20+, very highly praised games that I haven't played yet, from the last 5 years.

I always loved FPS's, but starting with the first Max Payne in 2001 (yes, pathetic, I know), my computer couldn't handle them.

I played BF1942 w/ my subpar crappy system, and still often was at the top or in the top 3-5 of the rankings in each game.

Maybe it's time to mindlessly shoot people for awhile. Sounds like fun.

paulscott · November 2006

rounds???

do you want a tick based strat game?

Aelfinn · November 2006

AoC fits most of the reqs

ongoing storyline heavily affected by the players, the world changes with it

Skill based combat, your pipe dream is a reality

There are real consequenses in PvP, although not as "hardcore" as EVE, its mostly in the form of the looting of "blood money" which is used to buy PvP specific gear.

Thinman · November 2006

Originally posted by Aelfinn

AoC fits most of the reqs
ongoing storyline heavily affected by the players, the world changes with it
Skill based combat, your pipe dream is a reality
There are real consequenses in PvP, although not as "hardcore" as EVE, its mostly in the form of the looting of "blood money" which is used to buy PvP specific gear.

Age of Conquests?

Thinman · November 2006

Originally posted by paulscott
rounds???

do you want a tick based strat game?

What I imagine is a game where, say the playerbase starts on one side of a large map, and they must battle and puzzle their way over to say a castle on the other side of the map; along the way are keeps, dungeons, and lands that they must explore, conquer, and solve their way through to get to the castle.

They win by conquering the castle in some way. Maybe they have a time limit, maybe they have to do it without suffering a certain amount of casualties along the way. But once the "round" is over, the playerbase has either won or lost. These rounds would last a month, or three, or some other long period.

Another round is begun after that. Perhaps they found a portal in the castle, which takes them to a new land with more true content and gaming to explore.

What's scary, is that this type of game would appeal to a massive part of the playerbase, it would be lauded as the ultiimate in MMOGing if made right, but ABSOLUTELY NO ONE has the balls to deviate this much from the formulaic crap that's out there.

Yet, a person can dream this idea up, and it's clear to see that it would be compelling, and fun to play. The problem, is that the people who fund the developers are cowards, afraid to take a chance, afraid to gamble a bit, and ultimately are swimming in the mediocrity that they've spawned across the artform that is gaming.

Rayx0r · November 2006

you like strategy based games it seems. large orginized seiges or battles.

As someone else said, Age of Conan clicky!!

Thinman · November 2006

hmmm... Age of Conan does look cool. Someone also emailed me and recommended Guild Wars. I tried GW back when I had a crappy computer and it was too choppy to play.. but both of these do sound good.

Alright, maybe all is not darkness and despair in the world of MMOGs. Damn, this whole winter being on the way thing puts me in a funk every year. What is there to do when it's cold and dreary outside, besides game?

Anyway, thanks for the help, I will check out GW and AoC. Dark Solstice and this game called Armada Online look interesting too.

Aelfinn · November 2006

Originally posted by Thinman

hmmm... Age of Conan does look cool. Someone also emailed me and recommended Guild Wars. I tried GW back when I had a crappy computer and it was too choppy to play.. but both of these do sound good.
Alright, maybe all is not darkness and despair in the world of MMOGs. Damn, this whole winter being on the way thing puts me in a funk every year. What is there to do when it's cold and dreary outside, besides game?

Anyway, thanks for the help, I will check out GW and AoC. Dark Solstice and this game called Armada Online look interesting too.

For Age of Conan, I suggest starting at either the main faqpage HERE, or for the extra quick lookover, the newb thread I wrote HERE

exanimo · November 2006

Originally posted by Thinman
hmmm... Age of Conan does look cool. Someone also emailed me and recommended Guild Wars. I tried GW back when I had a crappy computer and it was too choppy to play.. but both of these do sound good.
Alright, maybe all is not darkness and despair in the world of MMOGs. Damn, this whole winter being on the way thing puts me in a funk every year. What is there to do when it's cold and dreary outside, besides game?

Anyway, thanks for the help, I will check out GW and AoC. Dark Solstice and this game called Armada Online look interesting too.

if you have a new computer and you are out of games for 5 years , fasten your seat belt and go for guildwars.
its the only game with anything diferent from all the other same old crapy games in the market.
if you want a new experience , online , good grafics , guildwars.
also its important you know , the game as changed a lot since release , it keeps upggrading , even the grafics engine is new already. ig you still have a profecies acount , take a look and grad your jaw.

Thinman · November 2006

Originally posted by Aelfinn

Originally posted by Thinman

hmmm... Age of Conan does look cool. Someone also emailed me and recommended Guild Wars. I tried GW back when I had a crappy computer and it was too choppy to play.. but both of these do sound good.
Alright, maybe all is not darkness and despair in the world of MMOGs. Damn, this whole winter being on the way thing puts me in a funk every year. What is there to do when it's cold and dreary outside, besides game?

Anyway, thanks for the help, I will check out GW and AoC. Dark Solstice and this game called Armada Online look interesting too.

For Age of Conan, I suggest starting at either the main faqpage HERE, or for the extra quick lookover, the newb thread I wrote HERE

Definitely seems pretty innovative.. and Funcom being at the helm is probably a good thing I think. AO was definitely something pretty new when it came out. They're similar to Mythic in some ways I think.

Of course, I've been out of the loop for awhile, so what do I know.. hehe

Thinman · November 2006

Originally posted by neoteo

if you have a new computer and you are out of games for 5 years , fasten your seat belt and go for guildwars.
its the only game with anything diferent from all the other same old crapy games in the market.
if you want a new experience , online , good grafics , guildwars.
also its important you know , the game as changed a lot since release , it keeps upggrading , even the grafics engine is new already. ig you still have a profecies acount , take a look and grad your jaw.

It's only been 8 or so months since I was gaming last.. but I had a really, really, really crappy computer from 2001 on. So I couldn't play a lot of new games. I've got some catching up to do in the action games department.

The good thing is, I can buy games that were considered the best of the best in 2003 for $5 now..

Definitely looking forward to Guild Wars atm.

Wolfjunkie · November 2006

You want to play World War II Online, an MMOFPS.

Koddo · November 2006

I would suggest Fury. It's still in development, and seemingly far off (release is sometime in 2k7 for now, but can change of course). It's a competitive online rpg/fps type of game. From what i've read it seems to be skill based, no class restrictions as well. There will be no AI controlled enemies, all player controlled. I'm looking forward to it. I don't think it has all of your requirements, but i felt that you might be interested in the game as well. And if pvp is what your really looking for, then try out shadowbane. Old game i know, but the pvp seems like it's the best around. Multitude of race/classes to choose from. Plus it's F2P now. Again, not really your requirements, but you might have fun with it.

Mcgreag · November 2006

Sounds a bit like how Pirates of the Burning Sea will be. PvP, game area which is reset when one sides take it all. Player skill based. Not sure about losses for death.

Should be released q2/q3 2007.

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Veteran MMOGer coming back (maybe) - Any games with the following?

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