Mesmer/Monk - Good combo?

Thinman · November 2006

Hey all,

I'm thinking about getting into MMOGs again after about 8 months away from gaming.. I have quite a few years under my belt playing MMOGs, starting with DAOC, and from there playing basically everything else that has come around, until about 1 year ago when I played eve for 5 months.

I'd like to try Guild Wars; I want to get into the PvP aspects of the game. I was thinking that I'd like to play a character who is able to control the enemy's ability to function in the battlefield, while also being able to help out allies who need it.

I don't want to be a healer.. let me make that clear.. I want to be able to hinder the enemy to maximum effect, while also benefiting my allies with non-healing spells.

I was thinking that I could go mesmer primary, monk secondary, with my monk "points" or whatever they'd be called spent in the protection/buffing abilities.

Keep in mind that I have no idea really about the game mechanics at this point; I've played a sorcerer in DAOC and enjoyed it immensely, and want to experience something like that in Guild Wars.

Some questions:

Is this a common build? Is it one that a lot of people are willing to play?

Any suggestions/thoughts?

Thanks for any help.

VGJustice · November 2006

There used to be a common Mesmer/Monk combo called a Resmer. The idea here was to have a character that could cast the VERY long cast time resurrection spells quickly (half the cast time).

Anyway, for your build, it's not overly common but it does exsist. The Mesmer is by far the most difficult class to play, and the way you seem to want to play (battlefield control) is one of the single best things you can do as a Mesmer. Early on, you'll find some self healing skills from the Monk line useful, but later on you will most likely only use Mesmer skills. There are some options, like the Protection Prayers line of Monk skills. You could, in theory, use some of those skills to aid the party, but you will most likely not be needed for that or you will not be wanted to do that. Don't be discouraged, however, as there will be times when having those extra protections can help a group greatly. At the very least, you will have access to Resurrection spells rather than the single use Resurrection Signet.

If you feel up to the challenge, then I highly recommend the game in general. And a well played Mesmer is an asset to any team, PvE or PvP. Specifically for their Dominating presance.

exanimo · November 2006

mmm

ill try to explain how this pvp thing goes in guildwars

there are some famous skill builds , for profession combos , and people give it names , sometimes the name of the skill build is the elite skill used , but not always.
the possible combos and builds are near endless , but the famous builds are limited and are always changing.

if for any reason people find a really good build that makes the pvp boring becose everyone is using it , anet makes us a favor and nerfes a few skills ( adjust ) so people have to start experimenting again and try to find a good build.

if you are looking for a godly build , forget it , there is no such thing.

all professions have defence and atack skills. and all kinds of variations of those.

my advice is before you jump into pvp , watch observer mode , read some builds in web pages ..

if you gw acount is old , you have heros ascend already unlocked , go there and study what people are saying , ask them what those letters mean , what skills that build takes , dont be afraid of being ignored , keep trying.
its the only way.

you may have the best skill build possible , but people will not care about it , they will ask for the popular builds.

normaly this popular builds come from the top guilds , people see in abserver mode and " steal " the skill build from the pros.

it sounds like a really hard quest to reach the elite pvp comunity , its not that hard if you really want to.

the most important IMO is to learn what people are using , and why.

make and delete pvp chars , get used to that , experiment diferent runes , diferent atributes setings , diferent prof combos.

install teamspeak and ventrilo , if you can find out a good popular skill build and if you have ts and vent rdy to go , its not hard to fit in a good group , even if its your first time playing that build , i have done it many times , and no one called a noob , and i was a noob in that build.

now for the mesmer monk combo , i dont remember the mesmer builds i have played if they use monk as a seconnd , but sounds like a good combo to me.

mesmers builds that i know : migrane , energy drain , degen ..

basacly are builds that : burn your energy , or , burn your health , mesmers are powerfull in a way most people dont notice.

there is a lot of reading you can do about what each atribute for each character means and does ..

ok i could be here typing forever

give me a wisper in game ...

neoteo ex animo

Thinman · November 2006

I should probably add that I do want to get into a very good pvp guild.. I will have teamspeak and vent and so forth.

Of course, I've never played the game before, the first thing is probably to just pvp a bit w/ a semi-serious pvp guild.

I may end up not liking the game.. but I'm sure that which guild you're in effects that greatly.

It sounds like it's pretty easy to get a character together? To get the skills together and everything?

Also, I will probably be among the people trying to design new builds, rather than just using some flavor of the month build.. I would hope to be in a guild that could see beyond the FotM's and see the reason that a build is good. Follow the crowd and you'll simply be in the crowd, I'm thinking.

I probably will try a mesmer to start off with, and add another class on to it. Who knows though, once I play I'm sure things will be different.

exanimo · November 2006

if you are new to the game , its almost impossible to get in a good pvp guild
good pvp guild are elitists , they require you to have at least rank 3
rank 3 you get when you win 180 matches in the hall of heros
to get to the hall of heros you must win a few matches in random arenas , and then win a few matches in team arenas , only then you will be in heros ascent ( hall of heros )

also if you want to start right away doing pvp , you will lack a lot of skills and items

you can make a pvp char only with pre made builds , you can try them in random arenas , and use the baltazar faction to unlock more stuff in the priest.

imo , its best to start a pve char and unlock skills via Pve , and then make pvp chars with the unlocked skills you have. and then you can start unlocking skills via pvp with the balt faction.

there are lots of people recruiting , endless guilds . if you are looking for a good pvp guild that does gvg and heros ascent , i wish you good luck , its almost impossible , good pvp guilds are made with people that know each other for a while.

the same reason pvp in guildwars is complex and hard , it supose to be the end game , when you have learned how to setup chars , how to combine skills with weapons , runes , atributes , armors , etc ... when you have learned to play in groups , position in battle , call targets , folow targets , when you have learned that profession combo and skill seting task ...

there is a lot to learn , the pve story is the perfect tutorial ...

but there is a open door to jump right in pvp , i think its the hard way to do it tho.

you are free to try it , but i think it will be frustating , you will lose a lot , and you might lissen to the word " noob " a lot of times

most important is , dont think its a easy task to reach the good pvp side of guildwars , its not.

" good " for me means , those voice chat groups , reaching the hall , last match of hall of heros , where you feel like , wow im here !!!

its easy to have fun , it takes about 30 seconds to be playing in random arenas

now to be in that good pvp guild you are looking for , i would say , at least 300 hours of experience and hard study before you get there.

dreamer05 · November 2006

Thats actually a very common and very useful build. You can use your fast cast to cast healing spells much faster so some healers choose to go this way. Although if you are wanting to be mostly mesmer in the end you usually end up not even using your secondary except for special build ocations. But let me tell you from experience, mesmers are a good time and very underestimated.

VGJustice · November 2006

Not all of the PvP guilds are elitest, just the vast majority. If you wanna get into a PvP guild, I'd put up a request at one of the main fansites (GuildWarsGuru and GuildWarsOnline are both good for this and are linked to directly from the GW main site).

But, the main thing to do here is just play the build, either in PvP or PvE. Learn how it works, what works for you, why things work, when to use skills or skill combos, and how to make skill selections. The only real way to do this is to actually play the game, although a good guild can help you along that path as well.

Even if you can't get into a PvP guild, look around for an active PvE guild. They can help you along as well, and maybe some of them like to PvP as well. That should give you a more well rounded look at the game and your character which will give you the best view on what skills can do what and when to use them.

As for skill selection, it's pretty much drag 'n drop. There's no possible way to permanently screw yourself (like in WoW, you could really mess yourself up by putting points into the wrong tree until you get 5g). Just play with it. Heck, I make joke builds now just to see how they work (Dagger Monk? gogogo)

Just remember to have as much fun as physically possible. It is a game after all.

exanimo · November 2006

that reminds me when i made my assassin , i didnt have any good daggers , i made him assassin/warrior , so i was using a old green hammer i had in storage for ages. many people in my pve runs laugh about it , but i was having a lot of fun , hammering with my sin . sure it was ridiculus , but it was dealing good dmg.
now im playing full daggers skills , and wow , yes its a lot faster and deadly.
this to agre with VGjustice , the main objective is to have fun experimenting skills and weapons .
if you char can andle the weapon requirements , dont be afraid to try it , even if its you secondary profession.
you see a lot of that in pvp , mesmer with swords , monks with swords .. all kinds of bizare setings.
people may laugh at you , but when it works , its a huge lesson to the casual linear weapon atrib seting player.

Zerand · November 2006

I have played a mesmer a long time now, and I can tell you that if you want to be an effective mesmer, there really is no room for monk spells. From time to time I try to think of other skills that would supplement my build, but can never think of one. The main reason for this is, that all your attribute points will propably be used for enhancing mesmer attributes. The other being that there are so many interesting mesmer skills. In GvG this might not be the case however as I have not played it.

In the beginning of PvE as said before it might be ok to use some other spells. But when the groups get bigger, there are prot and heal monks doing the same you might try. And they are going to do it more succesfully as they have Divine Favor attribute that you don't have.

Playing a mesmer might be really troublesome at first. Their armor is really weak and you might find yourself dead from time to time. In the end however, it is really fun. After trying few other professions, I created a new mesmer when I bought Nightfall. I just didn't feel comfortable with other classes.

And as last warning: You might feel like a noob even after playing hundreds of hours. At least I do. But it still feels so rewarding when you can deny the casters from energy or casting spells

It must be one of the most irritating things monk can experience.

Thinman · November 2006

Thanks for all of the advice, everyone.

Maybe I should ask the question a bit differently.. What are Mesmers' main roles? Is it anything like a sorcerer, in DAOC? Casting spells that hinder the enemy, maybe stunning them, or teleporting them away from the battle?

I want to play the profession that is best at that sort of thing.. disrupting the enemy's ability to fight, not through damage spells or stuff like that, but through maybe debuffing or spells that mess up their tactical dispositions.

Also, are there any secondary professions that anyone would recommend for a mesmer, if a mesmer is the profession that I'm looking for (the profession that I'm hoping is even in the game)?

Zerand · November 2006

Originally posted by Thinman
Thanks for all of the advice, everyone. Maybe I should ask the question a bit differently.. What are Mesmers' main roles? Is it anything like a sorcerer, in DAOC? Casting spells that hinder the enemy, maybe stunning them, or teleporting them away from the battle? I want to play the profession that is best at that sort of thing.. disrupting the enemy's ability to fight, not through damage spells or stuff like that, but through maybe debuffing or spells that mess up their tactical dispositions. Also, are there any secondary professions that anyone would recommend for a mesmer, if a mesmer is the profession that I'm looking for (the profession that I'm hoping is even in the game)?

You just described what mesmer is. Hindering the enemy is what it does. It uses lots of debuffs(called hex spells in Guild Wars) that are more than annoying. A good mesmer can shut down an enemy so badly that he can't do a thing. And if he does, he can say good bye to his health/energy(in other games mana). Leaving a mesmer out of a GvG battle is foolishness. I know you will love playing a mesmer.

Thinman · November 2006

Originally posted by Zerand

Originally posted by Thinman

Thanks for all of the advice, everyone.

Maybe I should ask the question a bit differently.. What are Mesmers' main roles? Is it anything like a sorcerer, in DAOC? Casting spells that hinder the enemy, maybe stunning them, or teleporting them away from the battle?
I want to play the profession that is best at that sort of thing.. disrupting the enemy's ability to fight, not through damage spells or stuff like that, but through maybe debuffing or spells that mess up their tactical dispositions.

Also, are there any secondary professions that anyone would recommend for a mesmer, if a mesmer is the profession that I'm looking for (the profession that I'm hoping is even in the game)?

You just described what mesmer is. Hindering the enemy is what it does. It uses lots of debuffs(called hex spells in Guild Wars) that are more than annoying. A good mesmer can shut down an enemy so badly that he can't do a thing. And if he does, he can say good bye to his health/energy(in other games mana). Leaving a mesmer out of a GvG battle is foolishness. I know you will love playing a mesmer.

Shit man, that's music to my ears. Thanks!

Akaraxle · November 2006

Originally posted by Thinman

Thanks for all of the advice, everyone.

Maybe I should ask the question a bit differently.. What are Mesmers' main roles? Is it anything like a sorcerer, in DAOC? Casting spells that hinder the enemy, maybe stunning them, or teleporting them away from the battle?
I want to play the profession that is best at that sort of thing.. disrupting the enemy's ability to fight, not through damage spells or stuff like that, but through maybe debuffing or spells that mess up their tactical dispositions.

Also, are there any secondary professions that anyone would recommend for a mesmer, if a mesmer is the profession that I'm looking for (the profession that I'm hoping is even in the game)?

Good way to put the question: then the Mesmer is exactly what you want. Mesmers are the masters of disruption and illusion, the anti-everything by definition, and they do most of their fearsome actions indirectly. When you see a Mesmer approaching your casting range, you know something bad is bound to happen to you.

Mesmers can double your casting time, make you take damage each time you attack, make you take damage each time you cast a spell, interrupt your skills, burn your energy, inflict health degeneration, disable your skills, strip your enchantments, snare you... there are so many great skills from a Mesmer to choose from that most players often have trouble choosing the canonic 8.

All the secondary classes can fit a Mesmer well, but the most noticeable are three:
- Mesmer/Monk: a very good choice for Mesmers that intend to use only Mesmer skills, but want to bring some support for their fellow teammates. The Fast Casting attribute sensibly cuts down the long cast times for Monk resurrection spells, allowing them to bring people up quickly as they fall in battle without wasting the valuable, single-use Resurrection Signet (a skill common to all classes). They can also bring some self healing like Healing Breeze, or a quickened Remove Hex for hex removal.
- Mesmer/Necromancer: if you REALLY hate your enemies, you can combine the disruptive force of the Mesmer with the other major force of debuffing in Guild Wars, the Necromancer. Its potent but long casting Curses, while they won't be as powerful as they might be on a Necromancer primary, will be sped up by your Fast Casting and will act as nice cover hexes for your Mesmer skills. You'll also be able to support your allies to some extent, by exploiting corpses to make regeneration wells or sacrificing a bit of your own health to give your Monks energy.
- Mesmer/Elementalist: there are two common and completely different paths to the Me/E. The first involves making use of the Elementalist energy management skills, namely Glyph of Lesser Energy and Glyph of Energy, to reduce the cost of the most pricey Mesmer spells and save your energy a little more. The second path is that of the destructive fast cast nuker, a build that uses destructive Elementalist spells, but with their cast time narrowed by your Fast Casting attribute.

If you have Factions, you might find the Deadly Arts of the Assassin interesting for your cause. The Warrior secondary is used in a special build that makes use of the enchantment Illusionary Weaponry to attack with a melee weapon and do unconditional, armor ignoring damage.
Whatever you choose, remember that Guild Wars is all about finding the combination of skills that suits you the most, and you find the most effective. Don't be tempted by cookie-cutter builds (at least not while you're still a newb): experiment, listen to advice, and have fun learning.

Thinman · November 2006

Thank you Akaraxle.. very good advice there.. I'm not sure at this point what I'd go with yet..

I just got Nightfall from the store... I might experiment a bit with a mesmer/dervish or mesmer/paragon.

I think initially it might be wise for me to start off with a mesmer/monk, or mesmer/necro. The mesmer/elementalist nuker sounds interesting, but I liked having a strong effect on the tides of battles more than just being able to do a lot of damage, in DAOC.

It seems like a mesmer/paragon may be pretty powerful.. I'm not sure if there'd be a way to mix the 2 roles well, though.

I may start off with a mesmer/necro.

Akaraxle · November 2006

Originally posted by Thinman
Thank you Akaraxle.. very good advice there.. I'm not sure at this point what I'd go with yet..

I just got Nightfall from the store... I might experiment a bit with a mesmer/dervish or mesmer/paragon.

I think initially it might be wise for me to start off with a mesmer/monk, or mesmer/necro. The mesmer/elementalist nuker sounds interesting, but I liked having a strong effect on the tides of battles more than just being able to do a lot of damage, in DAOC.

It seems like a mesmer/paragon may be pretty powerful.. I'm not sure if there'd be a way to mix the 2 roles well, though.
I may start off with a mesmer/necro.

I'll let you know that if at some point you don't feel content with your choice, you can change secondary profession fairly easily pretty soon in the Nightfall campaign, or by just traveling by boat to the Temple of Balthazar. Find the profession changer, pay him 500 gold to "unlock" a class and from that point on you can switch between your original secondary and the ones you've "unlocked" for free (though you will have to buy the skills) by using your K menu. I'd give you advice on Me/D or Me/P, but I haven't really digged into those two classes yet, except for the skills most commonly used in Guild vs Guild battles.

You might find the Mesmer a bit mild in the PvE environment, because its subtleness is a bit wasted on the low monster intelligence, and also a bit difficult to use effectively. Try to play around with certain monster types, i.e. casters, enjoy screwing them over and think about how you'll do it on real people pretty soon. ::::09::

Thinman · November 2006

Originally posted by Akaraxle

Originally posted by Thinman
Thank you Akaraxle.. very good advice there.. I'm not sure at this point what I'd go with yet..

I just got Nightfall from the store... I might experiment a bit with a mesmer/dervish or mesmer/paragon.

I think initially it might be wise for me to start off with a mesmer/monk, or mesmer/necro. The mesmer/elementalist nuker sounds interesting, but I liked having a strong effect on the tides of battles more than just being able to do a lot of damage, in DAOC.

It seems like a mesmer/paragon may be pretty powerful.. I'm not sure if there'd be a way to mix the 2 roles well, though.
I may start off with a mesmer/necro.

I'll let you know that if at some point you don't feel content with your choice, you can change secondary profession fairly easily pretty soon in the Nightfall campaign, or by just traveling by boat to the Temple of Balthazar. Find the profession changer, pay him 500 gold to "unlock" a class and from that point on you can switch between your original secondary and the ones you've "unlocked" for free (though you will have to buy the skills) by using your K menu. I'd give you advice on Me/D or Me/P, but I haven't really digged into those two classes yet, except for the skills most commonly used in Guild vs Guild battles.

You might find the Mesmer a bit mild in the PvE environment, because its subtleness is a bit wasted on the low monster intelligence, and also a bit difficult to use effectively. Try to play around with certain monster types, i.e. casters, enjoy screwing them over and think about how you'll do it on real people pretty soon. ::::09::

hehe.. cool sounds good. I suppose that since you can switch to any secondary after the first that you start off with, I'll go either mesmer/necro or mesmer/paragon.

Of course, I would be able to do it a lot sooner if the computer that I'm now stuck using didn't have %*&$ing Norton Internet Security on it. I may be able to get it to install, but man, what a terrible program.

Anyway, thanks for all of the advice.. I think I've got a good idea now of how to proceed with character generation.

Zerand · November 2006

Akaraxle you are making very good points. I myself am going with the Me/E. Glyph of lesser energy is great because it doesn't have attribute and for that reason you can spend all your points on mesmer attributes.

Forgot to tell you that mesmers have only one healing spell. And what makes it really irritating, is the fact that it is in a different attribute (Inspiration magic) than the spells used normally. It is energy wise ok, but it does have an irritating cool down. Normally there are monks backing you, and you don't need to heal yourself, but when in a pinch it wouldn't hurt to have a monk as a secondary. The choice is yours however.

EDIT: What akaraxle said about AI intelligence. They won't stop attacking when using empathy and they won't stop casting spells when you use backfire, so they are actually really efficient. You just need to choose your skills differently.

Unknown · November 2006

Originally posted by Thinman
Thanks for all of the advice, everyone. Maybe I should ask the question a bit differently.. What are Mesmers' main roles? Is it anything like a sorcerer, in DAOC? Casting spells that hinder the enemy, maybe stunning them, or teleporting them away from the battle? I want to play the profession that is best at that sort of thing.. disrupting the enemy's ability to fight, not through damage spells or stuff like that, but through maybe debuffing or spells that mess up their tactical dispositions. Also, are there any secondary professions that anyone would recommend for a mesmer, if a mesmer is the profession that I'm looking for (the profession that I'm hoping is even in the game)?

In a nutshell Memers area gigantic pain in the ass.

They make you kill yourself casting you own spells. Or they steal all you energy. Or they just stop all your castings. Or they take all your buffs a way. Or they degen you to death. Or they slow you down with snares.

They also have sidelines of energy management and spell stealing/duplication. Arcane echo lets dupe some other spell you have. Things like inspired Hex let you steal an enemies hex and use it yoruself even if you aren't that class.

They are about stopping people from doing stuff. Either directly or indirectly. But also have a theme of mental powers/illusion.

gkscotty · November 2006

Mesmers exist to make all the other classes hate mesmers. If you're in PvP and someone yells in local chat "%$&% MESMER!" you are doing your job.

A lot of mesmers see it their role to lay stress on targets in PvP and play a psychologial war, as well as preventing the enemy from doing... well... anything!

Expect to find a lot of conditional but very powerful spells, in addition to direct damage and degen. They're a class that really benefits from a good knowledge of the other classes, as they are largely the counter-class. For this reason they are seen as difficult to have as a first character. But don't let that put you off.

Also, they get the best clothes.

Unknown · November 2006

Keep in mind they are not the ONLY counter class. Rangers make very good interrupters although they lack the other things mesmers have and have to deal with the bow fire rate.

A Ranger has some nice interrupts in that they are usually somewhat less conditional than a Mesmer's interrupts. Some Mesmer interrupts are very spell focused and some are skill focused. Whereas most ranger interrupts interrupt both but apply a special effect based on whether it was a skill or spell.

Rangers are also highly annoying but in a different way. There is some overlap. Both classes can be extremely frustrating in their own way. Mesmers are more shutdown and Ranger is more harassment. But either one can do either of those roles at least decently. And of course many people play Ranger/mesmer in pvp even with the distortion change.

Sephis · November 2006

Mesmers can also count anything If you play it correctly or you got the correct skills on. Anti-melee or Anti-magic, doesn't matter.

while Mesmers are hated in PvE (and most people think they useless, what world do they live in?!), mesmers shines in PvP (just like the Assassin) as mostly E-drainers, Rezmers, Fast Cast Spiker, Black-out Mesmer etc.

Anyway since I really can't explain the Mesmers into a depth like the Legendary Nobleman Azure and MogRuith can (And i Mean, these guys are simply Awesome, Mesmer Forever simply) my Suggestion would be to seek the Mesmer forum at GWonline.net, And ask the real Mesmers (unlike me, who is a Assassin)

Anyway, Massage me if you want some Training of what I can offer ( I played Mesmer in a rank <200 guild once)

In-game Name: Sephis Shadowfang

VGJustice · November 2006

Mesmers and Rangers are by and far the most versatile classes in the game. They can fill the most roles of any other class, and can do things that no other class could dream of.

On another note, Me/P could work. A bit of Fast Casting, a good helping of Domination, then a Paragon attribute and you should be just fine. Paragons have plenty of ways to buff the party, or even cause havoc to the whole enemy party. With a little work, I'll bet that'd be a great combo.

8hammer8 · November 2006

Originally posted by gkscotty
Mesmers exist to make all the other classes hate mesmers. If you're in PvP and someone yells in local chat "%$&% MESMER!" you are doing your job. A lot of mesmers see it their role to lay stress on targets in PvP and play a psychologial war, as well as preventing the enemy from doing... well... anything!

Expect to find a lot of conditional but very powerful spells, in addition to direct damage and degen. They're a class that really benefits from a good knowledge of the other classes, as they are largely the counter-class. For this reason they are seen as difficult to have as a first character. But don't let that put you off.

Also, they get the best clothes.

I started playing a mesmer after getting my kicks as a interupting ranger. I can not tell you how much fun I have with the Mesmer. The is no better feeling than getting yelled at by the other teams casters, I have even had casters do an AFK in the middle of PvP. I always found myself going with a complete "ShutDown" caster btw I think "Migraine" is the greatest skill to carry for that build. A lot of what a Mes does involves timing and I think that is what takes a bit to learn. And during matches you will notice that opposing casters usually have a spell order they try to do everything and interupting that is a blast.

Ahhh. I just love using the Mes.

Also, they make get the best clothes, but the dances are horrible...freaking Lord of the Dance, are you kidding me.

Akaraxle · November 2006

Originally posted by 8hammer8

Also, they make get the best clothes, but the dances are horrible...freaking Lord of the Dance, are you kidding me.

Nothing beats the Male Elementalist dance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlniNrTFwj8 <- ::::01::

Unknown · November 2006

Originally posted by Akaraxle
Originally posted by 8hammer8

Also, they make get the best clothes, but the dances are horrible...freaking Lord of the Dance, are you kidding me.

Nothing beats the Male Elementalist dance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlniNrTFwj8 <- ::::01::

The Elaine Bennis from Seinfeld part of that dance always cracks me up.

8hammer8 · November 2006

Originally posted by gestalt11

Originally posted by Akaraxle

Originally posted by 8hammer8

Also, they make get the best clothes, but the dances are horrible...freaking Lord of the Dance, are you kidding me.

Nothing beats the Male Elementalist dance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlniNrTFwj8 <- ::::01::

The Elaine Bennis from Seinfeld part of that dance always cracks me up.

**Wave White Flag**

I concede...that dance may be the best of the worst ...I just saying. Hell, even a waltz would have been better, or at least more appropriate

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