2 moons = childrens game?

Antipathy · November 2006

After my recent musings about the business model for 2 moons, I decided to test my theories by looking at what sort of people are into the game.

I looked at the thread "OH HAIL!" and checked the age of each of the seven posters. Handily they had all filled their age in, and the results made me smile.

The oldest poster was 21. One poster was as young as 13, and another was 15.

As I thought - kids and students. Not very promising for an adult only game surported entirely by advertising.

2 Moons = DOA.

mobiusace · November 2006

The mature part means, that kids need to either lie about there age and thus KNOWING its above their age. or get parental guidance email or what ever its called.

it doesnt mean its MOST DEFINITLY NOT ALLOWED means theres violance, bad languageand blood. they have been warned more then once to be exactly im getting pretty sick of this MOST VIOLLENT GAME EVER MADE, proove first, talk later. mmK? made things clear? prolly not but anywhoo. best of luck and not to worry they wont get traumas from it or somthing

Antipathy · November 2006

Originally posted by mobiusace
The mature
part means, that kids need to either lie about there age and thus
KNOWING its above their age. or get parental guidance email or what
ever its called.

it doesnt mean its MOST DEFINITLY NOT ALLOWED
means theres violance, bad languageand blood. they have been warned
more then once to be exactly im getting pretty sick of this MOST
VIOLLENT GAME EVER MADE, proove first, talk later. mmK? made things
clear? prolly not but anywhoo. best of luck and not to worry they wont
get traumas from it or somthing

mobi - is your
post based on facts or supposition? My comments are merely based on
interviews at sites such as this. Dave Perry himself described the
nature of the content and the advertising model. The stuff you mention
"MOST VIOLENT GAME EVER" etc. isn't in my post. Can you please reply to
what's written rather than your own paranoia?

Most of the interviews I've read mention adult content. If the company
then allows a load of kids to sign up then they are pretty much asking
to be sued in US courts - "This filthy game exposed my son to all sorts
of violent and hateful imagery. It gives him nightmares at night and
I've had to arrange for regular trips to a psychologist. He may never
recover from exposure to such graphic violence at such a young age."
Maybe the case will be complete rubbish, but acclaim will find it
pretty hard to defend itself based upon the supposition "We designed a
game for adults and then allowed a load of kids to play".

And any sort of self certifying or parental guidance email is a joke.
The only proof of age that remotely works over the internet is a credit
card. But 2 moons isn't asking for them.

Antipathy · November 2006

Also how's the advertising thing going to work?

I can almost imagine Dave Perry meeting an advertising exec. Trying to explain what audience he has.

Well we only allow adults so adult advertising is fine. But half the
players are kids, so you can advertise kids stuff too. Oh - and only
20% of the players are in north america. Another 30% in western europe.
And 30% in eastern europe. And 20% is scattered all over. Apparently
we're quite big in the Phillipines. And economically speaking - none of
our players have much money to buy your stuff.

Yeah right. They're really going to get alot of money out of
advertisers like that. The internet is full of advertising hoardings. 2
moons will be lucky to persuade advertisers to pay enough money to keep
the game running - let alone enough to cover expanding it or - dare I
say it - making a profit.

mobiusace · November 2006

To be honest i get your point. but, i also get my own point, and i know im not the best guy at english sinds im not english myself. but i try my best so here gose.

They can ask for Credit card numbers but most people in my country dont have one, my own family only has one ourselves and we hardly use it in this country (holland) we have PIN pass so we dont need a credit card really that often. so there goes 5% of that 20% in europe, their just trying to make gamers happy gamers, by bringing a good online game. even though i still thing its retarded to make a really "adult" game that word brings thoughts in my head that i dont need to see in a video game thanks :P but still. the parental guidance is the only way they can avoid bieng sued for really that much, if a kid has a decent amount of knowledge and uses it he can see the M for mature sign bieng displayed thousands of times.(if it doesnt i hardly think it can play a game of this size)
STILL!!! i think i can really agree with you, parents that are close to this industry should be aware of this, and if i had kids id be worried sick. I geuss the only thing you could do is make sure your own kid(s) dont have to go trough that expirience ever again. So i think its good that you bring this topic to the light of the people.

But to my opinion, theres more then enough warnings on the interviews that state exactly "its an adult game" as you said. if a kid of twelve or nine years old reads that 2 things can happen
1. he gets curious and explores deeper.
2. he uses common sence and stops right there.

they are practicly free from all sues, because and listen up.
theres this thing called a user agreement, if you agree to that you actualy read ALL of it, in that user agreement i am positive that there will be a statement that it can lead to long after effects if you are underaged for a Mature game.
if you do NOT agree to a user agreement you cannot install it thus not play it. (then theres a fact that at a friends place etc etc) but THAT makes gameing companys practicly invinsible to these kinds of cases so i wouldnt worry if i was Acclaim myself. I hope this clears some parts up but, cant help it if twelve year olds go play it, they do it out of their own will, its the parents job to protect them from these kinds of stuff on the internet. you might want to install a blocker for websites like this as a parent, or have computers in a room where alot of people come so they can see what the other is doing and check up on each other. there ya have it My very own opinion. i think il try this game though, and il keep watch for people i think wont be able to handle the stuff it has to offer maybe i can spare a life or two from psychiatrists (did i spell that right?)

Antipathy · November 2006

My problem is not with their content. I haven't seen their content so I
can't really comment. My problem is with their business plan. I think
it sucks.

Btw - in most countries children can't enter into a legally binding
agreement. Hence trying to control access with a user agreement would
have no legal merit whatsoever.

mobiusace · November 2006

If thats the case WHO CAAAAARES about their bussniss plan, maybe it fails, their bad. maybe it rocks, their win.

Antipathy · November 2006

Originally posted by mobiusace
If thats the case WHO CAAAAARES about their bussniss plan, maybe it fails, their bad. maybe it rocks, their win.

If the business plan fails then the game fails.

pintto · November 2006

the gameplay not the business plan will make or break the game. If the game play is really good and something different more serious gamers will try it out regardless of how they want to market it. They may even change it look at all the harressment archlord got about their busniess model and they changed it before release. Game still never got really off the ground due to major GAMEPLAY changes that also happened late in the game but then again it really wasnt offering tons over other mmos now.

Antipathy · November 2006

Originally posted by pintto
the gameplay not the business plan will make or break the game. If the game play is really good and something different more serious gamers will try it out regardless of how they want to market it. They may even change it look at all the harressment archlord got about their busniess model and they changed it before release. Game still never got really off the ground due to major GAMEPLAY changes that also happened late in the game but then again it really wasnt offering tons over other mmos now.

It's true that if the gameplay is good then the company has a chance. If both are poor then they are certainly lost.

Even so, when most games launch they only have a very limited amount of time to turn a profit before the company goes bust or heads start rolling.

They will have to come up with a new business plan very quickly, and find one that doesn't drive away any customers they have managed to attract. Not a good start, given how perilous launching an MMO is in the first place.

DeserttFoxx · November 2006

Originally posted by Antipathy

Originally posted by pintto
the gameplay not the business plan will make or break the game. If the game play is really good and something different more serious gamers will try it out regardless of how they want to market it. They may even change it look at all the harressment archlord got about their busniess model and they changed it before release. Game still never got really off the ground due to major GAMEPLAY changes that also happened late in the game but then again it really wasnt offering tons over other mmos now.

It's true that if the gameplay is good then the company has a chance. If both are poor then they are certainly lost.

Even so, when most games launch they only have a very limited amount of time to turn a profit before the company goes bust or heads start rolling.

They will have to come up with a new business plan very quickly, and find one that doesn't drive away any customers they have managed to attract. Not a good start, given how perilous launching an MMO is in the first place.

What makes you think the business plan and gameplay are poor? Or that they have a limited amount of time to turn a profit?

What is the point of this thread, game isnt even in beta yet we are discussing why the game has already failed?

Why does the global age limit of the game really matter, personally i dont care how old the people are around me when i play. I usually move with my guild/clan anyway. Ive met immmature 40 year old gamers along side immature 15 yearolds. Maturity has no age limit, dont know why age keeps comming into play it doesnt matter, if you log onto a game and someone irritates you, its not because of their age, its because that person is a natural moron and would likely annoy you whether he/she was 15 or 35.

This thread is pointless.. lets talk about the game failing, driving away customers after the game goes into at least phase 1 closed beta.

I simply dont understand the logic in bashing a free game, but i guesss whatever passes the time. Personally when i see a free game sucks, i dont bash it, i just dont play it. Sometimes i dont even uninstall them, they dont cost me anything to keep them, nor play them.

hallon · November 2006

@Antipathy! Why can't you just wait and see how its going to turn out? you say that the game will have "kids" and the game will be ruined! It's people like you who ruins all the fun! Go to 2moons forum and READ all about advertising!!

Antipathy · November 2006

If you don't see a point in a thread then don't post to it :-) Personally, I sometimes like to have my ideas challenged - it makes life for more interesting than being constantly surrounded by a bunch of cheerleaders. If you want to live in a blinkered little world where no-one ever challenges your views then I'd suggest joining a religious commune and shutting off all contact with the outside world.

Here are some more reasons as to why a thread such as this may have value.

Save other people from committing time to following a game that will ultimately fail
Allow other games, more likely to succeed, to get the attention that they desperately need
Warn other companies thinking of adopting unworkable ideas
Encourage open debate, drawing out well thought out opposition to my ideas (hasn't happened yet, but I can hope).

Perhaps, although this is unlikely, someone from Acclaim will see this thread, and will amend the financial model for the game before too much harm is done.

DeserttFoxx · November 2006

Originally posted by Antipathy
If you don't see a point in a thread then don't post to it :-) Personally, I sometimes like to have my ideas challenged - it makes life for more interesting than being constantly surrounded by a bunch of cheerleaders. If you want to live in a blinkered little world where no-one ever challenges your views then I'd suggest joining a religious commune and shutting off all contact with the outside world.

Here are some more reasons as to why a thread such as this may have value.

Save other people from committing time to following a game that will ultimately fail
Allow other games, more likely to succeed, to get the attention that they desperately need
Warn other companies thinking of adopting unworkable ideas

Encourage open debate, drawing out well thought out opposition to my ideas (hasn't happened yet, but I can hope).Perhaps, although this is unlikely, someone from Acclaim will see this thread, and will amend the financial model for the game before too much harm is done.

ive said this about archlord, and people still went to it, you cant convert people. Especialy if your comments are formed in a matter that shows you clearly made no effort to understand the game.

Personally i dont trash a game until i actually play it.. like with archlord, i made it far in that game just so i can trash it in full detail. Yet people played it, and htey complain about the same thing.

Weareweare · November 2006

Antipathy i was wondering if your going to play this game, or you just want to critisize it? Also yes i hear it will be an adult game, but adult as in 18+ or 14+?...i hope i can play it now.

Antipathy · November 2006

Originally posted by DeserttFoxx

ive said this about archlord, and people still
went to it, you cant convert people. Especialy if your comments are
formed in a matter that shows you clearly made no effort to understand
the game.

If my comments are so misinformed, then
why are people having so much difficulty coming up with adequate
counters? What is there about this game that I fail to understand? I'm
still waiting to hear.

Antipathy · November 2006

Originally posted by Weareweare
Antipathy
i was wondering if your going to play this game, or you just want to
critisize it? Also yes i hear it will be an adult game, but adult as in
18+ or 14+?...i hope i can play it now.

I was considering playing the game, but decided it wasn't worth following (for reasons I hope I have made clear).

Of course, if the game gets good reviews when it comes out, then I
could always change my mind. Until then, I am, as I have said,
sceptical.

Edit ...

And about the age thing - I was assuming 18 since that seems to be the
most common age for adulthood accross alot of countries. For example -
the "R" rating in the important US market implies age 18. Has Acclaim
made such things clear on it's forums? I have looked, but I've found
very few facts there and large numbers of fanboys - most of whom show
signs of having a similar age profile to the posters here.

Weareweare · November 2006

ah thanks for getting back to my post so quicly, i was really looking forward to playing this game, and the contest mmorpg.com is having which said nothing about age, or adult content for 2 moons. I guess i can stick with 9dragons if my age of 15 is a problem. -thanks

Suo_Eno_1357 · November 2006

We can also assume that the 'adults only' subject is a form of hype mongering by Acclaim? Given that the level of curiosity from kids these days, they'll be quick to jump in massive droves in any offerings with mature ratings. As Antipathy had suggested, there's NO real proof or even hints on how the age verification can or will be done to actually satisfy this requirement? I've come across the same suspicion too on the official forums.

Given that 2Moons is a remake of Dekaron, I can't seem to recount if any other Korean MMORPG of the same ilk had any measurable contents that can pose any danger for minors. But maybe Acclaim are playing it safe and there's more emphasis to liberalize the game off the normal censorship stances as called for by various NGOs and concerned parties, as what had resulted from GTA's franchises' negative publicities. Making the so-called 'adults only' warning as public and as widespread as possible, seems like a justifiable PR tact to confirm this?

Though I can be totally wrong...

Hashbrick · November 2006

Originally posted by Antipathy
After my recent musings about the business model for 2 moons, I decided to test my theories by looking at what sort of people are into the game.I looked at the thread "OH HAIL!" and checked the age of each of the seven posters. Handily they had all filled their age in, and the results made me smile.The oldest poster was 21. One poster was as young as 13, and another was 15. As I thought - kids and students. Not very promising for an adult only game surported entirely by advertising.2 Moons = DOA.

Wrong, if kids want to have it, it must be that cool. The GTA series is in no way any form of a kids game, yet every kid wants its hands on it. Point proven. peace.

tobychew · November 2006

If you read the whole official site like I did you would also see that someone said that a female monster will flash here boobies. That is why its an adult only game because of the eye candy

Antipathy · November 2006

Originally posted by HashBrick

Wrong, if kids want to have it, it must be that cool. The GTA series is in no way any form of a kids game, yet every kid wants its hands on it. Point proven. peace.

If fanboys are all it takes for a game to succeed, then all MMO fans would be spoilt for choice.

Grimsom · November 2006

I believe that a game must only allow adults to play if only it is rated M/A by a the ESRB. All commercial western civilization games go through the ESRB. But because 2moons is a free to download game free to play as it says they dont have to get it rated because its not a commercial game. Where as they could if they want such as MU did. Thing is since its not a commercial game it doesnt have to be ranked between E and A ratings for everyone and adults, so any age can play the game based they can handle and actually be respectfull and mindfull that the game will be on a Mature, or teen rating.

Qmire · November 2006

I would have to admit that 2Moons brings the inner child of me alive, because it reminds me of the first sega console with Mortal kombat...

But i'm sure there are many men around, who grave for thier inner child's lust for mortal kombat alike battles once more.

The question that would really boil your head would probably be, what game does actually qualify for adults only, while the teens won't like it? A trivial persuit mmorpg? Even those can be fun with a little liqour aside for the young people, so i guess, there really doesn't exist a true "adult only" game, it's like saying porn movies are only seen by adults, we all know that's bogus.

How acclaim is going to make sure it's only 18+ year-olds are playing is something i'll leave for them to decide.

DarKeNesS · November 2006

It would be nice, if it be free, no swear and Blood Optional.

mobiusace · January 2007

about the bussnis plan stuff. Research has shown that if you want the most effective effect of your advertisement, you need post it on lara crofts bum because that will have the most effect.

So if your a gamer, what kind of adds interest you? adds of other games ofcourse, this interests kids-teens-adults all they need is for game companys to advertise in their game and it will have a pretty fair chance to succeed

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