you are looking for proof that people left. Why? What does it really matter. They did, we all know it. There isnt a specific number, no. Not that I've seen anyway. But again, does it really matter?
I have never said anything about them "inflating" population numbers. I do know that I signed in about a month ago for the "free pass" and didnt see more then 5 other people. It was 7pm CST on a friday night. Pre-CU at that given time I would have seen more people in the most remote parts of the worlds.
I remember packed cantinas, I remember starport 10 minute waits, I remember speeders lining the streets of Moe because there was a bug and no one could store them. I am a Vet and a refugee. I will not debate your veteran status.
I will say that your comments and "searching for facts" does make it that you are defending the NGE. You can do and say anything you want but the fact of the matter is, Pro NGE statements in this forum fall on fairly deaf ears and lend about as much support to the NGE as a bra to a 12 year old.
Originally posted by ThalosVipav Yep, I've got proof. Look at your world selection screen. See where it says "Low" for population on all the worlds? It use to say High and medium. Stop trying to justify the NGE. This is the VETERAN Refuge. Means we can complain about the NGE all we want cause, flat out, it's not the game we bought. Not the game we put years into. And not the game we loved. Go back to the NGE boards and stop bugging us.
Wan't supporting the NGE, just asking for facts which seems to upset a great number of folks here. Typical.
Server lists eh? Is this the same lists where folks in here say they are adjusting the server size requirement when it shows medium or high? What are the stated requirements for the server size to show Low, Medium or High (now and before the NGE since folks seem to think they are adjusted).
The Veteran Refuge is for Veterans, of which I am one. Don't like it? Tough. I ranted in here as well, but I will call folks to the carpet when they try to pass opinion as "fact", I have stated that before. I ask a very, very simple question and have yet to receive an answer. Simply shows that the statement was an opinion no matter what some might try to spin it to otherwise.
Your reaching if that is the best you can do ole Barron ...lol
Pointing that one thing out of all of that which was said? Come on man you can do better then that...
Im kinda dissapointed... all of that said and that one thing bothers you??? lol...
I tell ya what, not only do I believe that but I bet with some or little work it could be proven.
That sad part is that of all that was said is the least of the worries that anyone should consider.
The one person that should have thrown up the flag was Raph leaving... that alone should have told people somthing.
It was enough for me... thats for sure. I don't need to see Captain jumping of the titanic to know somthing is wrong..lol
As far as subs go... well, just log into the game and see it for yourself.
It does not take a Monkey to figure that one out folks... your fighting over somthing so silly at that point.
I mean crap, just go look. It pretty much hits you in the face pretty quick with no effort.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Originally posted by ThalosVipav you are looking for proof that people left. Why? What does it really matter. They did, we all know it. There isnt a specific number, no. Not that I've seen anyway. But again, does it really matter? I have never said anything about them "inflating" population numbers. I do know that I signed in about a month ago for the "free pass" and didnt see more then 5 other people. It was 7pm CST on a friday night. Pre-CU at that given time I would have seen more people in the most remote parts of the worlds. I remember packed cantinas, I remember starport 10 minute waits, I remember speeders lining the streets of Moe because there was a bug and no one could store them. I am a Vet and a refugee. I will not debate your veteran status. I will say that your comments and "searching for facts" does make it that you are defending the NGE. You can do and say anything you want but the fact of the matter is, Pro NGE statements in this forum fall on fairly deaf ears and lend about as much support to the NGE as a bra to a 12 year old.
I miss Saber TEF's and DOT weapons. Thalos Vipav Master Pikeman Jedi Knight Forceably Retired.
I remember al those times as well. Standing in line for buffs in Coronet. Hell, My wife was a Master Doc and I still had to stand in line! Trying to slice weapons for customers and having to explain why it went bad and yes, they still had to pay for it whether they liked the slice or not.
As far as my comments go, take what you want from it. I hated what the NGE did to the game and the community. You think that I am a proNGE? Fine think what you will, but you better get used to seeing me in here, as most folks here that post on a more regualr basis than 5 posts a year can atest to, I am on here quite a bit. Do I agree with everything said? Nope and I will counter points as I see fit. I have argued with Iskareot and Obraik alike.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
Originally posted by Antarious They learned alright... See how EQ2 is doing in about 2 months if they don't "reverse" some of todays changes. Maybe EQ1 will go back to be their flagship game. It could have more subs than any of the others now (that soe runs).
they still have tons of subs to their games. i bet everyone with a Station Pass counts as a subscriber to every single game the run - even though those people are prolly only playing EQ & EQ2.
NGE was the least of SoE's problems, they already lost a significant chunk of their player base when they desided to clone the EQ2 interface. I mean whole guilds left already then, NPC cities like bestine was depopuleted ON, For months on the developers had prosponed every reasonable and unreasonable criticism with "we will fix it in the CURB, youll see" it sort of became an instant autoreply to every post made on the offical forums every ticket submitted.
And when they failed to deliver BLAM instant cancle subscription, i myself sticked around for about 14 days only to discover that every offbalance was still there and more to!
In reactor theory you operate with responstime deviations, which derive from the fact thers a lag between making a correction to a system and measuring the effects. SoE sure proved that this is also there in computergames in fact their deviation killed the game for a lot of people and it violates every customer/surplyer interaction rule there is written or not. You dont see a bank kicking out all their old customers because from now on they only want people worth more the 100 million because that may prove to be better buisness do you? but SoE did just that.
To conclude SoE may have lost 50% of their excisting player base on NGE, but they lost the other 50% on the CURB! They chased a othervise loyal player base that proved they could take more s#¤t then any other in the history of mmorpgs properbly right in to the arms of blizzard who has done nothing but prove that mediocrasy sell's volumes, but that is a whole other discussion for another forum.
Originally posted by ThalosVipav you are looking for proof that people left. Why? What does it really matter. They did, we all know it. There isnt a specific number, no. Not that I've seen anyway. But again, does it really matter? I have never said anything about them "inflating" population numbers. I do know that I signed in about a month ago for the "free pass" and didnt see more then 5 other people. It was 7pm CST on a friday night. Pre-CU at that given time I would have seen more people in the most remote parts of the worlds. I remember packed cantinas, I remember starport 10 minute waits, I remember speeders lining the streets of Moe because there was a bug and no one could store them. I am a Vet and a refugee. I will not debate your veteran status. I will say that your comments and "searching for facts" does make it that you are defending the NGE. You can do and say anything you want but the fact of the matter is, Pro NGE statements in this forum fall on fairly deaf ears and lend about as much support to the NGE as a bra to a 12 year old.
I miss Saber TEF's and DOT weapons. Thalos Vipav Master Pikeman Jedi Knight Forceably Retired.
I remember al those times as well. Standing in line for buffs in Coronet. Hell, My wife was a Master Doc and I still had to stand in line! Trying to slice weapons for customers and having to explain why it went bad and yes, they still had to pay for it whether they liked the slice or not.
As far as my comments go, take what you want from it. I hated what the NGE did to the game and the community. You think that I am a proNGE? Fine think what you will, but you better get used to seeing me in here, as most folks here that post on a more regualr basis than 5 posts a year can atest to, I am on here quite a bit. Do I agree with everything said? Nope and I will counter points as I see fit. I have argued with Iskareot and Obraik alike.
Well what he said is a fact, that is for sure lol.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Originally posted by ThalosVipav Yep, I've got proof. Look at your world selection screen. See where it says "Low" for population on all the worlds? It use to say High and medium. Stop trying to justify the NGE. This is the VETERAN Refuge. Means we can complain about the NGE all we want cause, flat out, it's not the game we bought. Not the game we put years into. And not the game we loved. Go back to the NGE boards and stop bugging us.
Wan't supporting the NGE, just asking for facts which seems to upset a great number of folks here. Typical.
Server lists eh? Is this the same lists where folks in here say they are adjusting the server size requirement when it shows medium or high? What are the stated requirements for the server size to show Low, Medium or High (now and before the NGE since folks seem to think they are adjusted).
The Veteran Refuge is for Veterans, of which I am one. Don't like it? Tough. I ranted in here as well, but I will call folks to the carpet when they try to pass opinion as "fact", I have stated that before. I ask a very, very simple question and have yet to receive an answer. Simply shows that the statement was an opinion no matter what some might try to spin it to otherwise.
Your reaching if that is the best you can do ole Barron ...lol
Pointing that one thing out of all of that which was said? Come on man you can do better then that...
Im kinda dissapointed... all of that said and that one thing bothers you??? lol...
I tell ya what, not only do I believe that but I bet with some or little work it could be proven.
That sad part is that of all that was said is the least of the worries that anyone should consider.
The one person that should have thrown up the flag was Raph leaving... that alone should have told people somthing.
It was enough for me... thats for sure. I don't need to see Captain jumping of the titanic to know somthing is wrong..lol
As far as subs go... well, just log into the game and see it for yourself.
It does not take a Monkey to figure that one out folks... your fighting over somthing so silly at that point.
I mean crap, just go look. It pretty much hits you in the face pretty quick with no effort.
Look, when did I ever try and point out or argue that that the population was somehow growing at some expotential rate? One time? Ever?
I am fully aware of what the NGE did to the population. It destroyed it. And no I am not going to pay a sub again to see that. I know I was there from preCu through the NGE.
Again, I have challenged you with the same thing before...show proof. Other wise simply say that the author thinks they have dropped by half. Saying it is "pure factual text" is bullshit, any Monkey knows that. I simply asked if that was fact show me who has stated it, since it seems to be a popular battle cry of the antiNGE group.
Folks love latching on to what some say here as fact. Just call what it is "opinion" there is no harm really. I would be arguing this if folks came on saying that subs have doubled or tripled on SWG (Stop laughing Isk, it was just an example).
I dont mind a good debate, but seprate fact from fiction or it goes nowhere. I apologize for hurting folks feelings in here, was not trying to do that.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
Originally posted by ThalosVipav you are looking for proof that people left. Why? What does it really matter. They did, we all know it. There isnt a specific number, no. Not that I've seen anyway. But again, does it really matter? I have never said anything about them "inflating" population numbers. I do know that I signed in about a month ago for the "free pass" and didnt see more then 5 other people. It was 7pm CST on a friday night. Pre-CU at that given time I would have seen more people in the most remote parts of the worlds. I remember packed cantinas, I remember starport 10 minute waits, I remember speeders lining the streets of Moe because there was a bug and no one could store them. I am a Vet and a refugee. I will not debate your veteran status. I will say that your comments and "searching for facts" does make it that you are defending the NGE. You can do and say anything you want but the fact of the matter is, Pro NGE statements in this forum fall on fairly deaf ears and lend about as much support to the NGE as a bra to a 12 year old.
I miss Saber TEF's and DOT weapons. Thalos Vipav Master Pikeman Jedi Knight Forceably Retired.
QFT.
Anyone who doesn't think that the population drastically declined due to the CU and even worse, the NGE is a fanboi.
With the number of people on this site and others that purposely resub or do trials just to run through each town of each planet on each server and various times to compare the population numbers. They all are low.
I resubbed a while back and it was horrible. I was so bored. I was on Bria and it was empty. At night there where maybe 10 v 10 pvp fights in Theed. I quit when the restuss thing came out. it was clearly another timesink and I thought the expertise system that was coming out was garbage. Why take away skills you already have then make a system to earn them back? That's not an added layer of gameplay, it's a cheap way to keep people grinding.
So I gave it a chance. But nobody was there. It was EMPTY. Compared to waiting in line for buffs for 45 minutes to the present.
I doubt more than 50k people play SWG ( that's being generous ) and without StationPass, it's less.
I hate everyone that plays the NGE and supports it. I feel those people stole my game. They were the "target market". So you can see why I don't think they have a leg to stand on.
Oh and with these "new" concepts coming out. There is nothing new about taming pets for example. This was already a profession before the game was stolen by the kiddies. But of course they all think it's a GREAT idea over there. What a joke.
Originally posted by Grauholm NGE was the least of SoE's problems, they already lost a significant chunk of their player base when they desided to clone the EQ2 interface. I mean whole guilds left already then, NPC cities like bestine was depopuleted ON, For months on the developers had prosponed every reasonable and unreasonable criticism with "we will fix it in the CURB, youll see" it sort of became an instant autoreply to every post made on the offical forums every ticket submitted.
And when they failed to deliver BLAM instant cancle subscription, i myself sticked around for about 14 days only to discover that every offbalance was still there and more to! In reactor theory you operate with responstime deviations, which derive from the fact thers a lag between making a correction to a system and measuring the effects. SoE sure proved that this is also there in computergames in fact their deviation killed the game for a lot of people and it violates every customer/surplyer interaction rule there is written or not. You dont see a bank kicking out all their old customers because from now on they only want people worth more the 100 million because that may prove to be better buisness do you? but SoE did just that.
To conclude SoE may have lost 50% of their excisting player base on NGE, but they lost the other 50% on the CURB! They chased a othervise loyal player base that proved they could take more s#¤t then any other in the history of mmorpgs properbly right in to the arms of blizzard who has done nothing but prove that mediocrasy sell's volumes, but that is a whole other discussion for another forum.
/golfclap SoE
Polish can sell itself , there is no doubt of this at all.
And I like it... it's amazing to be in a successful game at times.. has it's bonuses and perks that is for sure.
Yes, WoW is not as complex as prior SWG was.... no doubt. But one is working and doing well and one is not.. I choose to have a working product at least. I mean one had promise.... but just kept going backwards.
Now it's done. And we see who won sadly.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Originally posted by Grauholm NGE was the least of SoE's problems, they already lost a significant chunk of their player base when they desided to clone the EQ2 interface. I mean whole guilds left already then, NPC cities like bestine was depopuleted ON, For months on the developers had prosponed every reasonable and unreasonable criticism with "we will fix it in the CURB, youll see" it sort of became an instant autoreply to every post made on the offical forums every ticket submitted.
And when they failed to deliver BLAM instant cancle subscription, i myself sticked around for about 14 days only to discover that every offbalance was still there and more to! In reactor theory you operate with responstime deviations, which derive from the fact thers a lag between making a correction to a system and measuring the effects. SoE sure proved that this is also there in computergames in fact their deviation killed the game for a lot of people and it violates every customer/surplyer interaction rule there is written or not. You dont see a bank kicking out all their old customers because from now on they only want people worth more the 100 million because that may prove to be better buisness do you? but SoE did just that.
To conclude SoE may have lost 50% of their excisting player base on NGE, but they lost the other 50% on the CURB! They chased a othervise loyal player base that proved they could take more s#¤t then any other in the history of mmorpgs properbly right in to the arms of blizzard who has done nothing but prove that mediocrasy sell's volumes, but that is a whole other discussion for another forum.
/golfclap SoE
Polish can sell itself , there is no doubt of this at all.
And I like it... it's amazing to be in a successful game at times.. has it's bonuses and perks that is for sure.
Yes, WoW is not as complex as prior SWG was.... no doubt. But one is working and doing well and one is not.. I choose to have a working product at least. I mean one had promise.... but just kept going backwards.
Now it's done. And we see who won sadly.
Personally I rank WOW right along the same lines as NGE. Very nice looking and polished game, but very cartoony and simplistic to me. I was actually expecting Mickey Mouse to jump out of a few of those houses in game.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
Originally posted by ThalosVipav Yep, I've got proof. Look at your world selection screen. See where it says "Low" for population on all the worlds? It use to say High and medium. Stop trying to justify the NGE. This is the VETERAN Refuge. Means we can complain about the NGE all we want cause, flat out, it's not the game we bought. Not the game we put years into. And not the game we loved. Go back to the NGE boards and stop bugging us.
Wan't supporting the NGE, just asking for facts which seems to upset a great number of folks here. Typical.
Server lists eh? Is this the same lists where folks in here say they are adjusting the server size requirement when it shows medium or high? What are the stated requirements for the server size to show Low, Medium or High (now and before the NGE since folks seem to think they are adjusted).
The Veteran Refuge is for Veterans, of which I am one. Don't like it? Tough. I ranted in here as well, but I will call folks to the carpet when they try to pass opinion as "fact", I have stated that before. I ask a very, very simple question and have yet to receive an answer. Simply shows that the statement was an opinion no matter what some might try to spin it to otherwise.
Your reaching if that is the best you can do ole Barron ...lol
Pointing that one thing out of all of that which was said? Come on man you can do better then that...
Im kinda dissapointed... all of that said and that one thing bothers you??? lol...
I tell ya what, not only do I believe that but I bet with some or little work it could be proven.
That sad part is that of all that was said is the least of the worries that anyone should consider.
The one person that should have thrown up the flag was Raph leaving... that alone should have told people somthing.
It was enough for me... thats for sure. I don't need to see Captain jumping of the titanic to know somthing is wrong..lol
As far as subs go... well, just log into the game and see it for yourself.
It does not take a Monkey to figure that one out folks... your fighting over somthing so silly at that point.
I mean crap, just go look. It pretty much hits you in the face pretty quick with no effort.
Look, when did I ever try and point out or argue that that the population was somehow growing at some expotential rate? One time? Ever?
I am fully aware of what the NGE did to the population. It destroyed it. And no I am not going to pay a sub again to see that. I know I was there from preCu through the NGE.
Again, I have challenged you with the same thing before...show proof. Other wise simply say that the author thinks they have dropped by half. Saying it is "pure factual text" is bullshit, any Monkey knows that. I simply asked if that was fact show me who has stated it, since it seems to be a popular battle cry of the antiNGE group.
Folks love latching on to what some say here as fact. Just call what it is "opinion" there is no harm really. I would be arguing this if folks came on saying that subs have doubled or tripled on SWG (Stop laughing Isk, it was just an example).
I dont mind a good debate, but seprate fact from fiction or it goes nowhere. I apologize for hurting folks feelings in here, was not trying to do that.
Rofl I was laughing.. too lol.
Like I said though... I mean all that was said and that little part is almost a non-issue though. In the grand scheme of things that is the fallout from the statements that DID come from the producers... I mean really pretty much even they dug thier own grave. To be honest, one does not NEED any words to describe the player base numbers right now.
Just go in and see for themselves for the proof is what I think is best.. I just like thinking what the look is on thier face when they do it.
Saying we told them so is sooooo overused now.
I still like my post of the false yet true stuff to recap on.. I must find it.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Originally posted by lassiter Only opinion in that statement is "by some estimates cutting it in half" the rest appears to be fact.
I found this bit of information about SOE subscriptions that might be the source for these estimates. Certainly not factual...but interesting reading....
Star Wars Galaxies (Accuracy Rating: C)
Since its launch on June 26, 2003, the number of subscribers to Star Wars Galaxies has always been somewhat uncertain. An official statement released by John Smedley, President of SOE, in March 2004 suggested there were then currently between 200,000 and 300,000 subscribers and that SW: G was the second largest MMO in the North American market. I assume he was discounting Ragnarok Online and possibly FFXI in that statement, so I put the number at that time at 275,000. Since then, the number of subscribers has fallen sharply, although there is no official word on exactly how much. In a more recent statement in March 2006, Smedley said that SWG was the fifth largest MMOG in the North American market, behind WoW, EQ, EQ2, and RuneScape, which would put the number of subscribers somewhere between 175,000 and 250,000. Inside sources have offer a more precise but incomplete picture; as of March 2006 SWG only had 120,00 monthly paying subscribers, but this number does not include those who are subscribed to the game via game time cards or SOE station pass subscriptions. SOE station pass subscriptions are not counted unless they actually have registered a SWG account. Based on previously known data, I put the total number of subscribers for SWG at 190,000 for March 2006. Since that time, another source has indicated SWG may have only 110,00 total subscribers, but I believe that figure is most likely the monthly paying number. As of May 2006, I have put the number of total SWG subscribers at 170,000, but the actual number could be anywhere from 110,000 to 175,000. http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by lassiter Only opinion in that statement is "by some estimates cutting it in half" the rest appears to be fact.
I found this bit of information about SOE subscriptions that might be the source for these estimates. Certainly not factual...but interesting reading....
Star Wars Galaxies (Accuracy Rating: C)
Since its launch on June 26, 2003, the number of subscribers to Star Wars Galaxies has always been somewhat uncertain. An official statement released by John Smedley, President of SOE, in March 2004 suggested there were then currently between 200,000 and 300,000 subscribers and that SW: G was the second largest MMO in the North American market. I assume he was discounting Ragnarok Online and possibly FFXI in that statement, so I put the number at that time at 275,000. Since then, the number of subscribers has fallen sharply, although there is no official word on exactly how much. In a more recent statement in March 2006, Smedley said that SWG was the fifth largest MMOG in the North American market, behind WoW, EQ, EQ2, and RuneScape, which would put the number of subscribers somewhere between 175,000 and 250,000. Inside sources have offer a more precise but incomplete picture; as of March 2006 SWG only had 120,00 monthly paying subscribers, but this number does not include those who are subscribed to the game via game time cards or SOE station pass subscriptions. SOE station pass subscriptions are not counted unless they actually have registered a SWG account. Based on previously known data, I put the total number of subscribers for SWG at 190,000 for March 2006. Since that time, another source has indicated SWG may have only 110,00 total subscribers, but I believe that figure is most likely the monthly paying number. As of May 2006, I have put the number of total SWG subscribers at 170,000, but the actual number could be anywhere from 110,000 to 175,000. http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/
You also have to consider that many Station Pass subscribers may have registered SWG accounts, but they do not play either. That would certainly reduce the number of subscriptions. I think we can all agree that there are roughly 100,000 active accounts, though. That's kinda sad considering they are most likely 100,000 people who are new to the game...
Originally posted by BaronJuJu Originally posted by iskareot Let me give you the link right from the horse and mouth --- Also, note: This is not all (from a perspective) these are words and phrases used by the Producers and creators of the game itself. This is not a opinion, this is not a typo this is pure factual text. As it has not been argued or debated as anything else. "I would have done it a lot differently, and I think that's what's really been driving a lot of this," said Blakely, SOE's vice president of development, regarding the SWG changes known collectively as the New Game Enhancements, or NGE. Those changes, rolled out shortly after the previous year's AGC, resulted in several departures of development employees, and a significant portion of the customer population by some estimates cutting it in half.
Close but no cigar.
The area you highlighted is a personal OPINION by the author, not the person he was interviewing. Opinion does not equal fact, no matter which way you try and argue it. Now if the author is trying to make this a factual statement I would love to see what references and evidence he used.
It is indesputable that a significant portion of customers have cancelled and some people have estimated that half of the subscriber base had quit. He isn't saying that his estimate was that half the customers quit, only that other people have made that estimate.
Fact: Several development employees left SOE over the NGE.
Fact: A significant portion of the customer population quit because of the NGE.
Fact: Some people have estimated that half of the subscribers have quit because of the NGE.
Originally posted by iskareot Let me give you the link right from the horse and mouth --- Also, note: This is not all (from a perspective) these are words and phrases used by the Producers and creators of the game itself. This is not a opinion, this is not a typo this is pure factual text. As it has not been argued or debated as anything else. "I would have done it a lot differently, and I think that's what's really been driving a lot of this," said Blakely, SOE's vice president of development, regarding the SWG changes known collectively as the New Game Enhancements, or NGE. Those changes, rolled out shortly after the previous year's AGC, resulted in several departures of development employees, and a significant portion of the customer population by some estimates cutting it in half.
Close but no cigar.
The area you highlighted is a personal OPINION by the author, not the person he was interviewing. Opinion does not equal fact, no matter which way you try and argue it. Now if the author is trying to make this a factual statement I would love to see what references and evidence he used.
It is indesputable that a significant portion of customers have cancelled and some people have estimated that half of the subscriber base had quit. He isn't saying that his estimate was that half the customers quit, only that other people have made that estimate.
Fact: Several development employees left SOE over the NGE. Fact: A significant portion of the customer population quit because of the NGE. Fact: Some people have estimated that half of the subscribers have quit because of the NGE.
Yep but I did see what he meant overall. None the less like I said before, it is so small of a issue in the grand scheme of things.
It's just common sense now, sure it sucks, sure it's hard for the NGErs to bite on but it is what it is.
(not like it's my fault)
We are debating things I feel are a waste because they are so obvious.
I rather debate what type of people play it vs this one... this one is to easy to debate lol.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
in my estimate over 50% of the people left the game at nge, this is based upon what i saw when the nge was implemented and the loss of people playing in my guild and other guilds i had friends in, however this is still just an opinion. estimates are opinions in other words.
"We are debating things I feel are a waste because they are so obvious.
I rather debate what type of people play it vs this one... this one is to easy to debate lol."
See I agree with that in the sense that:
1) It is a waste because its obvious (all kinds of things are obvious to anyone who played at various times).
2) It is a waste because obviously if they were going to change the game back they would have done so by now.
(that's my opinion but really how far should someone sink financially before it becomes apparant they don't care).
Anyway the only thing I really ponder and would maybe debate is...
Its a general concept or feeling and maybe its just me.
I hated UO when I first logged in. I would not have made it past the first 30 days free. I made some friends and stayed there for around 5 years of almost continious subscription time.
Played EQ in beta hated it.. played it live.. hated it. Only played now and then because of friends.
Pretty much every MMO I've tried I have hated.. at least not stuck with consistently.
Except then came SWG and after its demise (in my opinion) nothing has replaced that.
Anyway I get to a point where I just hate my computer now. I do more stuff in "real life" and some of that isn't really that interesting. I see almost no games coming up that will even be worth the money for the box. I'm in numerous betas that I can't mention.. and none of them are worth the money.. not one. Of course a couple games I am interested in.. I'm not in the beta for or they are not in beta yet.
So basicly its one of two things:
1) I just don't want to game anymore (altho I think about it alot so I must want to.. I mean I have since the early 1980's...)
2) It seems based on forums there are quite a few like me.. so why does no one make a game for me/us?
Why try to capture a market from a game that is a monster (lets just call WoW that for an example). When you could go into a market with basicly no competition?
That to me is the debate... Why try to take customers from a game they are entrenched with. While trying and abortively at that to copy its systems.
When you could go after a market (which may be smaller) but has no competition...
That to me is the question I guess... the debate if you will.
Sorry for the ramble but I am not good at saying these things in shorter versions.
I rather debate what type of people play it vs this one... this one is to easy to debate lol.
Ok now come on. No need to get nasty here. Folks don't like the NGE fine. That doesn't make them smarter, better, more intelligent, etc than those that still play. I played Planetside from beta and had a great time until they added the robots (forgot the name, been too long). I considered those to be an I win button for a battle. It seemed to me to go from infantry battles with tactics to who had the most bots on your side. I never considered those who stayed to be inferior to my playing, they just accepted the new style where as I didn't. Even went back a time or two to try it out but I could never get back into it like on launch.
I say lets debate or put together ideas/thoughts/dreams for a new Star Wars MMO rather than waste time on acting like a kid and poking fun at others.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
Originally posted by Antarious *Edited for brevity* 2) It seems based on forums there are quite a few like me.. so why does no one make a game for me/us? Why try to capture a market from a game that is a monster (lets just call WoW that for an example). When you could go into a market with basicly no competition? That to me is the debate... Why try to take customers from a game they are entrenched with. While trying and abortively at that to copy its systems. When you could go after a market (which may be smaller) but has no competition... That to me is the question I guess... the debate if you will. Sorry for the ramble but I am not good at saying these things in shorter versions.
To answer #2 - I think its because everyone has such a varying opinion of what the "perfect" game should consist of. Take a look at the General Forums here and you will see what I mean. Folks can't even agree what PVP should be like (death penalty, corpse looting/running, etc). MMO managers want a sure thing right from the get go or it fails miserably (Auto Assault).
The same goes for trying to take players away from games they are entrenched with. That do that because the game they are entrenched with is usually a sure thing or they wouldn't be playing it.
There in lies another problem, what market is left to exploit? Western era? More Sci-Fi? 1920's gangster era? the pickins are slim so is one other area, playerbase. There is really only a finite amount of folks willing to sink money monthly into an MMO and WOW controls 6 million of those.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
Personally I rank WOW right along the same lines as NGE. Very nice looking and polished game, but very cartoony and simplistic to me. I was actually expecting Mickey Mouse to jump out of a few of those houses in game.
Anyone who calls the NGE polished obviously has a very skewed sense of what a polished game is.
It was a flaming trainwreck...WoW released with relatively few bugs and pretty well balanced out of the gate.
Oh and in regards to your Mickey Mouse house picture, lemme educate you.
WoW is a HIGH FANTASY setting. With this setting, the developers can take a free approach to how they want things to look
_____________________________________________
ANd another thing to the posters in this thread, take notice on how I spent 5 seconds and trimmed the fat off the chain of replies prior to replying to this guys message....makes for much more readability when browsing a thread.
My favorite is when someone quotes 200 lines a text for a one line worthless reply.
Comments
you are looking for proof that people left. Why? What does it really matter. They did, we all know it. There isnt a specific number, no. Not that I've seen anyway. But again, does it really matter?
I have never said anything about them "inflating" population numbers. I do know that I signed in about a month ago for the "free pass" and didnt see more then 5 other people. It was 7pm CST on a friday night. Pre-CU at that given time I would have seen more people in the most remote parts of the worlds.
I remember packed cantinas, I remember starport 10 minute waits, I remember speeders lining the streets of Moe because there was a bug and no one could store them. I am a Vet and a refugee. I will not debate your veteran status.
I will say that your comments and "searching for facts" does make it that you are defending the NGE. You can do and say anything you want but the fact of the matter is, Pro NGE statements in this forum fall on fairly deaf ears and lend about as much support to the NGE as a bra to a 12 year old.
I miss Saber TEF's and DOT weapons.
Thalos Vipav
Master Pikeman
Jedi Knight
Forceably Retired.
Thalos Vipav
Star Wars Galaxies: R.I.P.
Wan't supporting the NGE, just asking for facts which seems to upset a great number of folks here. Typical.
Server lists eh? Is this the same lists where folks in here say they are adjusting the server size requirement when it shows medium or high? What are the stated requirements for the server size to show Low, Medium or High (now and before the NGE since folks seem to think they are adjusted).
The Veteran Refuge is for Veterans, of which I am one. Don't like it? Tough. I ranted in here as well, but I will call folks to the carpet when they try to pass opinion as "fact", I have stated that before. I ask a very, very simple question and have yet to receive an answer. Simply shows that the statement was an opinion no matter what some might try to spin it to otherwise.
Your reaching if that is the best you can do ole Barron ...lol
Pointing that one thing out of all of that which was said? Come on man you can do better then that...
Im kinda dissapointed... all of that said and that one thing bothers you??? lol...
I tell ya what, not only do I believe that but I bet with some or little work it could be proven.
That sad part is that of all that was said is the least of the worries that anyone should consider.
The one person that should have thrown up the flag was Raph leaving... that alone should have told people somthing.
It was enough for me... thats for sure. I don't need to see Captain jumping of the titanic to know somthing is wrong..lol
As far as subs go... well, just log into the game and see it for yourself.
It does not take a Monkey to figure that one out folks... your fighting over somthing so silly at that point.
I mean crap, just go look. It pretty much hits you in the face pretty quick with no effort.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
I remember al those times as well. Standing in line for buffs in Coronet. Hell, My wife was a Master Doc and I still had to stand in line! Trying to slice weapons for customers and having to explain why it went bad and yes, they still had to pay for it whether they liked the slice or not.
As far as my comments go, take what you want from it. I hated what the NGE did to the game and the community. You think that I am a proNGE? Fine think what you will, but you better get used to seeing me in here, as most folks here that post on a more regualr basis than 5 posts a year can atest to, I am on here quite a bit. Do I agree with everything said? Nope and I will counter points as I see fit. I have argued with Iskareot and Obraik alike.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
I remember al those times as well. Standing in line for buffs in Coronet. Hell, My wife was a Master Doc and I still had to stand in line! Trying to slice weapons for customers and having to explain why it went bad and yes, they still had to pay for it whether they liked the slice or not.
As far as my comments go, take what you want from it. I hated what the NGE did to the game and the community. You think that I am a proNGE? Fine think what you will, but you better get used to seeing me in here, as most folks here that post on a more regualr basis than 5 posts a year can atest to, I am on here quite a bit. Do I agree with everything said? Nope and I will counter points as I see fit. I have argued with Iskareot and Obraik alike.
Well what he said is a fact, that is for sure lol.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Just cause I dont post doesnt mean I dont read. I know, this is a common misconception.
Dont try to belittle me because of the amount I choose to write.
Thalos Vipav
Star Wars Galaxies: R.I.P.
Wan't supporting the NGE, just asking for facts which seems to upset a great number of folks here. Typical.
Server lists eh? Is this the same lists where folks in here say they are adjusting the server size requirement when it shows medium or high? What are the stated requirements for the server size to show Low, Medium or High (now and before the NGE since folks seem to think they are adjusted).
The Veteran Refuge is for Veterans, of which I am one. Don't like it? Tough. I ranted in here as well, but I will call folks to the carpet when they try to pass opinion as "fact", I have stated that before. I ask a very, very simple question and have yet to receive an answer. Simply shows that the statement was an opinion no matter what some might try to spin it to otherwise.
Your reaching if that is the best you can do ole Barron ...lol
Pointing that one thing out of all of that which was said? Come on man you can do better then that...
Im kinda dissapointed... all of that said and that one thing bothers you??? lol...
I tell ya what, not only do I believe that but I bet with some or little work it could be proven.
That sad part is that of all that was said is the least of the worries that anyone should consider.
The one person that should have thrown up the flag was Raph leaving... that alone should have told people somthing.
It was enough for me... thats for sure. I don't need to see Captain jumping of the titanic to know somthing is wrong..lol
As far as subs go... well, just log into the game and see it for yourself.
It does not take a Monkey to figure that one out folks... your fighting over somthing so silly at that point.
I mean crap, just go look. It pretty much hits you in the face pretty quick with no effort.
Look, when did I ever try and point out or argue that that the population was somehow growing at some expotential rate? One time? Ever?
I am fully aware of what the NGE did to the population. It destroyed it. And no I am not going to pay a sub again to see that. I know I was there from preCu through the NGE.
Again, I have challenged you with the same thing before...show proof. Other wise simply say that the author thinks they have dropped by half. Saying it is "pure factual text" is bullshit, any Monkey knows that. I simply asked if that was fact show me who has stated it, since it seems to be a popular battle cry of the antiNGE group.
Folks love latching on to what some say here as fact. Just call what it is "opinion" there is no harm really. I would be arguing this if folks came on saying that subs have doubled or tripled on SWG (Stop laughing Isk, it was just an example).
I dont mind a good debate, but seprate fact from fiction or it goes nowhere. I apologize for hurting folks feelings in here, was not trying to do that.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
QFT.
Anyone who doesn't think that the population drastically declined due to the CU and even worse, the NGE is a fanboi.
With the number of people on this site and others that purposely resub or do trials just to run through each town of each planet on each server and various times to compare the population numbers. They all are low.
I resubbed a while back and it was horrible. I was so bored. I was on Bria and it was empty. At night there where maybe 10 v 10 pvp fights in Theed. I quit when the restuss thing came out. it was clearly another timesink and I thought the expertise system that was coming out was garbage. Why take away skills you already have then make a system to earn them back? That's not an added layer of gameplay, it's a cheap way to keep people grinding.
So I gave it a chance. But nobody was there. It was EMPTY. Compared to waiting in line for buffs for 45 minutes to the present.
I doubt more than 50k people play SWG ( that's being generous ) and without StationPass, it's less.
I hate everyone that plays the NGE and supports it. I feel those people stole my game. They were the "target market". So you can see why I don't think they have a leg to stand on.
Oh and with these "new" concepts coming out. There is nothing new about taming pets for example. This was already a profession before the game was stolen by the kiddies. But of course they all think it's a GREAT idea over there. What a joke.
Polish can sell itself , there is no doubt of this at all.
And I like it... it's amazing to be in a successful game at times.. has it's bonuses and perks that is for sure.
Yes, WoW is not as complex as prior SWG was.... no doubt. But one is working and doing well and one is not.. I choose to have a working product at least. I mean one had promise.... but just kept going backwards.
Now it's done. And we see who won sadly.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Polish can sell itself , there is no doubt of this at all.
And I like it... it's amazing to be in a successful game at times.. has it's bonuses and perks that is for sure.
Yes, WoW is not as complex as prior SWG was.... no doubt. But one is working and doing well and one is not.. I choose to have a working product at least. I mean one had promise.... but just kept going backwards.
Now it's done. And we see who won sadly.
Personally I rank WOW right along the same lines as NGE. Very nice looking and polished game, but very cartoony and simplistic to me. I was actually expecting Mickey Mouse to jump out of a few of those houses in game.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
Wan't supporting the NGE, just asking for facts which seems to upset a great number of folks here. Typical.
Server lists eh? Is this the same lists where folks in here say they are adjusting the server size requirement when it shows medium or high? What are the stated requirements for the server size to show Low, Medium or High (now and before the NGE since folks seem to think they are adjusted).
The Veteran Refuge is for Veterans, of which I am one. Don't like it? Tough. I ranted in here as well, but I will call folks to the carpet when they try to pass opinion as "fact", I have stated that before. I ask a very, very simple question and have yet to receive an answer. Simply shows that the statement was an opinion no matter what some might try to spin it to otherwise.
Your reaching if that is the best you can do ole Barron ...lol
Pointing that one thing out of all of that which was said? Come on man you can do better then that...
Im kinda dissapointed... all of that said and that one thing bothers you??? lol...
I tell ya what, not only do I believe that but I bet with some or little work it could be proven.
That sad part is that of all that was said is the least of the worries that anyone should consider.
The one person that should have thrown up the flag was Raph leaving... that alone should have told people somthing.
It was enough for me... thats for sure. I don't need to see Captain jumping of the titanic to know somthing is wrong..lol
As far as subs go... well, just log into the game and see it for yourself.
It does not take a Monkey to figure that one out folks... your fighting over somthing so silly at that point.
I mean crap, just go look. It pretty much hits you in the face pretty quick with no effort.
Look, when did I ever try and point out or argue that that the population was somehow growing at some expotential rate? One time? Ever?
I am fully aware of what the NGE did to the population. It destroyed it. And no I am not going to pay a sub again to see that. I know I was there from preCu through the NGE.
Again, I have challenged you with the same thing before...show proof. Other wise simply say that the author thinks they have dropped by half. Saying it is "pure factual text" is bullshit, any Monkey knows that. I simply asked if that was fact show me who has stated it, since it seems to be a popular battle cry of the antiNGE group.
Folks love latching on to what some say here as fact. Just call what it is "opinion" there is no harm really. I would be arguing this if folks came on saying that subs have doubled or tripled on SWG (Stop laughing Isk, it was just an example).
I dont mind a good debate, but seprate fact from fiction or it goes nowhere. I apologize for hurting folks feelings in here, was not trying to do that.
Rofl I was laughing.. too lol.
Like I said though... I mean all that was said and that little part is almost a non-issue though. In the grand scheme of things that is the fallout from the statements that DID come from the producers... I mean really pretty much even they dug thier own grave. To be honest, one does not NEED any words to describe the player base numbers right now.
Just go in and see for themselves for the proof is what I think is best.. I just like thinking what the look is on thier face when they do it.
Saying we told them so is sooooo overused now.
I still like my post of the false yet true stuff to recap on.. I must find it.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
I found this bit of information about SOE subscriptions that might be the source for these estimates. Certainly not factual...but interesting reading....
Star Wars Galaxies (Accuracy Rating: C)
Since its launch on June 26, 2003, the number of subscribers to Star Wars Galaxies has always been somewhat uncertain. An official statement released by John Smedley, President of SOE, in March 2004 suggested there were then currently between 200,000 and 300,000 subscribers and that SW: G was the second largest MMO in the North American market. I assume he was discounting Ragnarok Online and possibly FFXI in that statement, so I put the number at that time at 275,000. Since then, the number of subscribers has fallen sharply, although there is no official word on exactly how much. In a more recent statement in March 2006, Smedley said that SWG was the fifth largest MMOG in the North American market, behind WoW, EQ, EQ2, and RuneScape, which would put the number of subscribers somewhere between 175,000 and 250,000. Inside sources have offer a more precise but incomplete picture; as of March 2006 SWG only had 120,00 monthly paying subscribers, but this number does not include those who are subscribed to the game via game time cards or SOE station pass subscriptions. SOE station pass subscriptions are not counted unless they actually have registered a SWG account. Based on previously known data, I put the total number of subscribers for SWG at 190,000 for March 2006. Since that time, another source has indicated SWG may have only 110,00 total subscribers, but I believe that figure is most likely the monthly paying number. As of May 2006, I have put the number of total SWG subscribers at 170,000, but the actual number could be anywhere from 110,000 to 175,000. http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/
Taken from http://www.mmogchart.com/Analysis.html
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Quick, which one is in WOW?
Thought I was kidding eh?
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
Thalos Vipav
Star Wars Galaxies: R.I.P.
I found this bit of information about SOE subscriptions that might be the source for these estimates. Certainly not factual...but interesting reading....
Star Wars Galaxies (Accuracy Rating: C)
Since its launch on June 26, 2003, the number of subscribers to Star Wars Galaxies has always been somewhat uncertain. An official statement released by John Smedley, President of SOE, in March 2004 suggested there were then currently between 200,000 and 300,000 subscribers and that SW: G was the second largest MMO in the North American market. I assume he was discounting Ragnarok Online and possibly FFXI in that statement, so I put the number at that time at 275,000. Since then, the number of subscribers has fallen sharply, although there is no official word on exactly how much. In a more recent statement in March 2006, Smedley said that SWG was the fifth largest MMOG in the North American market, behind WoW, EQ, EQ2, and RuneScape, which would put the number of subscribers somewhere between 175,000 and 250,000. Inside sources have offer a more precise but incomplete picture; as of March 2006 SWG only had 120,00 monthly paying subscribers, but this number does not include those who are subscribed to the game via game time cards or SOE station pass subscriptions. SOE station pass subscriptions are not counted unless they actually have registered a SWG account. Based on previously known data, I put the total number of subscribers for SWG at 190,000 for March 2006. Since that time, another source has indicated SWG may have only 110,00 total subscribers, but I believe that figure is most likely the monthly paying number. As of May 2006, I have put the number of total SWG subscribers at 170,000, but the actual number could be anywhere from 110,000 to 175,000. http://starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/
Taken from http://www.mmogchart.com/Analysis.html
You also have to consider that many Station Pass subscribers may have registered SWG accounts, but they do not play either. That would certainly reduce the number of subscriptions. I think we can all agree that there are roughly 100,000 active accounts, though. That's kinda sad considering they are most likely 100,000 people who are new to the game...
LDoN was a learned and then unlearned experience as the later expansions come out.
Sometimes they move forward, but that doesn't mean that these devs will not move backward with the next expansion.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Close but no cigar.
The area you highlighted is a personal OPINION
by the author, not the person he was interviewing. Opinion does not
equal fact, no matter which way you try and argue it. Now if the author
is trying to make this a factual statement I would love to see what
references and evidence he used.
It is indesputable that a significant portion of customers have
cancelled and some people have estimated that half of the subscriber
base had quit. He isn't saying that his estimate was that half
the customers quit, only that other people have made that estimate.
Fact: Several development employees left SOE over the NGE.
Fact: A significant portion of the customer population quit because of the NGE.
Fact: Some people have estimated that half of the subscribers have quit because of the NGE.
Close but no cigar.
The area you highlighted is a personal OPINION by the author, not the person he was interviewing. Opinion does not equal fact, no matter which way you try and argue it. Now if the author is trying to make this a factual statement I would love to see what references and evidence he used.
It is indesputable that a significant portion of customers have cancelled and some people have estimated that half of the subscriber base had quit. He isn't saying that his estimate was that half the customers quit, only that other people have made that estimate.
Fact: Several development employees left SOE over the NGE.
Fact: A significant portion of the customer population quit because of the NGE.
Fact: Some people have estimated that half of the subscribers have quit because of the NGE.
It's just common sense now, sure it sucks, sure it's hard for the NGErs to bite on but it is what it is.
(not like it's my fault)
We are debating things I feel are a waste because they are so obvious.
I rather debate what type of people play it vs this one... this one is to easy to debate lol.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
I rather debate what type of people play it vs this one... this one is to easy to debate lol."
See I agree with that in the sense that:
1) It is a waste because its obvious (all kinds of things are obvious to anyone who played at various times).
2) It is a waste because obviously if they were going to change the game back they would have done so by now.
(that's my opinion but really how far should someone sink financially before it becomes apparant they don't care).
Anyway the only thing I really ponder and would maybe debate is...
Its a general concept or feeling and maybe its just me.
I hated UO when I first logged in. I would not have made it past the first 30 days free. I made some friends and stayed there for around 5 years of almost continious subscription time.
Played EQ in beta hated it.. played it live.. hated it. Only played now and then because of friends.
Pretty much every MMO I've tried I have hated.. at least not stuck with consistently.
Except then came SWG and after its demise (in my opinion) nothing has replaced that.
Anyway I get to a point where I just hate my computer now. I do more stuff in "real life" and some of that isn't really that interesting. I see almost no games coming up that will even be worth the money for the box. I'm in numerous betas that I can't mention.. and none of them are worth the money.. not one. Of course a couple games I am interested in.. I'm not in the beta for or they are not in beta yet.
So basicly its one of two things:
1) I just don't want to game anymore (altho I think about it alot so I must want to.. I mean I have since the early 1980's...)
2) It seems based on forums there are quite a few like me.. so why does no one make a game for me/us?
Why try to capture a market from a game that is a monster (lets just call WoW that for an example). When you could go into a market with basicly no competition?
That to me is the debate... Why try to take customers from a game they are entrenched with. While trying and abortively at that to copy its systems.
When you could go after a market (which may be smaller) but has no competition...
That to me is the question I guess... the debate if you will.
Sorry for the ramble but I am not good at saying these things in shorter versions.
Ok now come on. No need to get nasty here. Folks don't like the NGE fine. That doesn't make them smarter, better, more intelligent, etc than those that still play. I played Planetside from beta and had a great time until they added the robots (forgot the name, been too long). I considered those to be an I win button for a battle. It seemed to me to go from infantry battles with tactics to who had the most bots on your side. I never considered those who stayed to be inferior to my playing, they just accepted the new style where as I didn't. Even went back a time or two to try it out but I could never get back into it like on launch.
I say lets debate or put together ideas/thoughts/dreams for a new Star Wars MMO rather than waste time on acting like a kid and poking fun at others.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
To answer #2 - I think its because everyone has such a varying opinion of what the "perfect" game should consist of. Take a look at the General Forums here and you will see what I mean. Folks can't even agree what PVP should be like (death penalty, corpse looting/running, etc). MMO managers want a sure thing right from the get go or it fails miserably (Auto Assault).
The same goes for trying to take players away from games they are entrenched with. That do that because the game they are entrenched with is usually a sure thing or they wouldn't be playing it.
There in lies another problem, what market is left to exploit? Western era? More Sci-Fi? 1920's gangster era? the pickins are slim so is one other area, playerbase. There is really only a finite amount of folks willing to sink money monthly into an MMO and WOW controls 6 million of those.
"If we don't attack them, they will attack us first. So we'd better retaliate before they have a chance to strike"
Anyone who calls the NGE polished obviously has a very skewed sense of what a polished game is.
It was a flaming trainwreck...WoW released with relatively few bugs and pretty well balanced out of the gate.
Oh and in regards to your Mickey Mouse house picture, lemme educate you.
WoW is a HIGH FANTASY setting. With this setting, the developers can take a free approach to how they want things to look
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ANd another thing to the posters in this thread, take notice on how I spent 5 seconds and trimmed the fat off the chain of replies prior to replying to this guys message....makes for much more readability when browsing a thread.
My favorite is when someone quotes 200 lines a text for a one line worthless reply.
Move along.
LMAO is there really nothing new to talk about other then old .. old . old . stuff. LMAO. Bring it on down now.
Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.