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Swinging the NERF bat? POLL
mjkittredge
Member Posts: 126
You all probably know how it goes by now. New game comes out, and a certain class has a certain ability or combination of them that allows them to progress faster in the levels, get more cash/loot clearing lower areas faster, trade skills that outclass others and make them rich, killing power above and beyond other classes, ect. This makes everyone else feel like gimps, tons of the Powerful character get made/powerful trade skill taken up, and the game becomes even more unbalanced. So the dev team brings out the mighty, merciless nerf bat and hits below the belt to bring that powerful character/ablity/trade skill back down to be more even with the others. Some are regarded by most players as fair and reasonable, others draw extremely harsh criticism and even cause players to cancel subscriptions.
Examples:
EQ - Druid class could kite so effectively they could take out red con targets and garner xp quicker than other classes. I recall a much publicized druid getting to max level in less than a month (for EQ that is amazing time, in case people don't know what a grindfest that game was in it's early years.) This led to the infamous "Bug Spray Nerf" and Druids across the board screamed bloody murder, their play style which had been in place for a while got radically altered and they had to drastically change strategies. Other than the druids, there was a thing called "Stealth Nerfs" where they would change and weaken skills (like Necromancers Life Tap line) without mentioning it in the patch notes or anywhere else.
WOW - Warriors in beta could charge each time the skill cooled down, regardless of them being in combat or not, which in other players eyes made them overpowered, and Blizzard agreed. They changed it so you had to be out of combat to use the charge skill, making the skill harder to use for warriors and easier to kill warriors for everybody else. There was also a mortal strike nerf, making it do less damage, because max level warriors with epic weapons were 3 and even 2-shotting other classes. The unfortunate result was that lower level players who did not have these awesome weapons lost a significant chunk of damage they needed. Undead specific spells of the paladin and priest used to work on undead, and undead had their pve immunities working in PVP, but that was all deemed overpowering and unbalaning. Fear/sheep/mezz/root ect got the nerf too, diminishing returns nerf that meant the more it got cast on you in a certain time period, each successive time it would last less and less until it simply stopped working.
DAOC - I seem to remember Skalds/bards/ect used to be able to run around with their speed buff even when in combat, allowing them to close distance or retreat with ease. Skalds and their teammates now lose their speed buff when in combat or when attacked.
Let me know if I missed some big/interesting/controversial nerfs.
WAR? My question is, how hard does Mythic swing the nerf bat? Should we be worried? Do they stealth nerf? AND how do you think this will affect Warhammer Online? Will players whining on the forums ect affect the decisions of the Mythic team to nerf? Will you quit the game if your favored class you take to max level gets hit too hard with the nerf bat and you can't play the way you were used to playing?
Comments
Mythic did their share. Always certain users will be against such decisions, but then aren't people always against tax rising? even if it would be for the "greater good"?
Yes, the "greater good", such a handy concept that most people never consider
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Mythic took FOREVER to swing the nerf bat, if i remember correctly. Most of the time, their nerf bats seemed to just spawn more inconsistancies like useless tanks and useless stealthers. Then they'd swing away again only to redo the mistakes of the past. haha :P hehe
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This is a fairly silly topic for speculation at this point.
Proud Member of Mongbat
Actually, no, I remember when game first came out..Archer classes and Smite Clerics were over-pwred..within 6 months they were brought back into balance. And thoughout the game, there were regular adjustments to diffferent classes, both positive and negative as they sought balance.
Its true, sometimes correcting one problem created another. Add in expansions which add new gear/levels and abilities and I'd say every game will be constantly rebalancing their classes, and sometimes they'll be nerfs.
One thing I hope they'll do is make respecing your characters easier. In the early days of DAOC they were very stingy about this... and sometimes made nerfs w/o letting people respec. Now you can always buy a respec so at least you can correct your character. They could also take the WOW approach of giving everyone of a particular classs a free respec once a re-balancing had occurred.
I remember a nerf in Lineage 1 where they changed a key spell (Summon Bugbears) for mages (which I had saved up adena for 3 months to get) so that its power was suddenly based on your charisma..a previously useless trait for mages. Lin 1 had no respecing... so I was basically screwed... I had to re-roll and re purchase the same spell if I wanted to operate at full power. This pissed me off enough to quit playing the class. (I re-rolled an archer). Eventually they nerfed archers in some manner that again upset me...so I left the game for DAOC.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Aw be nice toby,although I have to agree it is a bit early to start SPECULATING this early.
If this game is going to have balance there is one thing that I think they should do that Im pretty sure no mmo company has done. They need dedicated, paid players. Something like 40 people that each have there own class they play. Its the only TRULY BALANCED way you will get a good idea of what each class can and cant do and if its overpowered or just a solid class. Im not talking about a class leader that has a million other job responsibilities and in his free time plays his class. That leads to the company being out of touch with the player base.
And Im hoping that they do less nerfing and more class buffing when there is imbalance. Id be much happier to learn that certain underpowered class got a buff as opposed to my class getting a nerf that changes my gameplay significantly or makes me feel obligated to play another class or quit the game.
Example
"said class" gets beat by all other classes in pvp for a certain reason...
"said class" then receives a buff much which helps them to compete in pvp much better.
Sort of how warlocks got deathcoil.
A bad example of buffing classes is what I see WoW attempting with there expansion.
Example, hunters are killing machines in pvp. The easiest target for any hunter to beat in pvp is a caster at range. They can interupt via pet, scatter shot, feign death and rapid shot. If a caster keeps getting interupted and cant cast what good is he? He is as good as dead. But what are hunters getting in the expansion? Silence shot...go figure.
To the subject of certain Classes being better at farming or leveling, who cares. Leave them alone. Rogues in wow can stealth to bosses in many parts of the game. Good for them, no need to nerf there class ability. In daoc the Albion necromancer was great at powerleveling, grinding and gold farming. Good for them. No other realm had that class but who cares, they all had there advantages and necros were terrible in RvR so it all balanced out imo.
This is an PvP based game I think PvP should be balanced, I know if PvP is balanced it's hard to have PvE and all other shit also balanced, but for a PvP/RvR based game like WAR I think that balancing the PvP should be priority #1. If that is balanced they can look at balancing the PvE (without disturbing the PvP balance)
The Illuminati Gaming Society
OH no they didn`nt and mythic did swing it VERY hard.
I remember the smithing Celric... that got nerfed in Dmg, Casting time, Mana cost, Effects, range.
Now who plays a smithing cleric in DAoC ? yeah nobody
Personaly, I always hated people who were anti-nerf. "My character doesn't feel as powerful" is the most common and most enoying whine I hear. You character should have to 'feel powerful', if that means artifical tipping the scales of fate in your favor. So your character changed? As long as it was for the better of the game, you should get over it. I remember on the CoH forums some guy complained:
"So, I was fighting two bosses, three leutenents and five henchmen. The henchmen went down easy enough but the luentenants hurt! By the bosses I was popping inspirations(they're like CoH's potions)! This is rediculious! I'm a tank!"
So then the lead Dev pops in and goes
"That spawn was designed for a seven person team. Where were your team-mates?"
Priceless.
Also, the worst thing that ever happened to my character wasn't a nurf, but a carrot. I had this cool spy character going. I'd have to time things just right, or else I'd die on almost any mission. THEY TURNED HIM INTO A KILLING MACHINE! That just ruined my experience.
a game i tried, where i found myself obligated to choose one "class", or else i wouldnt kill as fast.
the game is called Titan quest, i guess some people knows it.
i started out taking the class, not really with the knowledge of it being the best class, in my mind, but because it sounded cool.
afterwards when i wanted to start a new character i couldnt really start again because it simply were too slow compared to the one i picked from the start..
i myself cant take this kind of unbalance in a game - but to titan quests defense, it isnt a MMO that gets fees for a monthly upgrading/balancing.
im hoping this wont happen in any MMO tho :P
Elda, I guess I was responding to the all the whiners in daoc in regards to the necro. Its probably not a situation that will occur in WAR simply for the fact that WAR is so heavily based around pvp.
I agree that its a pvp based game but there always seems to be one class that is A LITTLE bit better (at the very least) at farming or grinding. I just dont think that a class should be knocked because its better at doing one thing. I mean, if someone is envious of that class's money making abilities, there is nothing stopping them from rolling that class.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
A bad example of buffing classes is what I see WoW attempting with there expansion.
Example, hunters are killing machines in pvp. The easiest target for any hunter to beat in pvp is a caster at range. They can interupt via pet, scatter shot, feign death and rapid shot. If a caster keeps getting interupted and cant cast what good is he? He is as good as dead. But what are hunters getting in the expansion? Silence shot...go figure.
Sounds like someone dosent like being pked by hunters,rogues or
warr.Evey class has there great points logan LTP .Ya name looks
familar maybe level 1 poster on wow fourms.gg
Meh, my previous comment was a little harsh, Aimed, A majority of us on these forums have played WoW, and advanceda good ways through it. We know the classes, and we know what combat was like. What logan posted was true. Hunters do have alot of chances to keep a mage opened to attack. "Ya name looks familar maybe level 1 poster on wow fourms.gg" If you really wish to insult someone come back with some more posts under your account name. And I really hope you aren't thirty-five as your profile suggests. If so,work on your spelling.
Oh you've got to be kidding me. It took them like a full year to nerf this, so much so that I leveled like my whole guild via this imbalance. Then it stopped when they would warp me out of dungeons i would be mass smiting, lol darn mythic
-Syloc
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Enderzshadow is my in game name on both my toons, my lock and my priest.
Heads up Ive been playing since release and all Ive ever cared to do was pvp.
Im sure its popular on your WoW hunter forums to say L2p but here it doesnt go over so well.
In a related story, L2quote
Getting pked by hunters rogues or warriors....hmmm, not really.
I beat hunters I would say 70 percent of the time.
I beat rogues 95 percent of the time.
Warriors, well a good warrior beats me 1v1 probably 50 percent of the time.
Warriors have all the counters to my tricks.
When hunters do beat me its nothing spectacular. They didnt really do anything right other than hide behind a group of other people while they plinked away aim shots and multi shots. If you think that takes some sort of skill then you havent played enough mmo's.
Its easily the simplest class play and do well in pvp.
And the point I was making in case you missed it, hunters dont need any more abilities or skills that help them beat clothies. Im confident that hunters are good at doing that already. In all seriousness do you think you need silence shot to beat priests/mages or warlocks?? If you do your the one that needs to L2p
I know this has nothing to do with WAR, it's just for the frustrated person who wrote this.
Mages have the tools to take down hunters. It's just when mages go around arcane bombing the front liners in group battles or are busy shooting at them, then the hunters flank and get their aimed shots in while you're occupied. One on one, sheep is your friend, sheep the hunter, pyroblast/arcane explosion the pet to death, then wind up with a big fire/ice bolt, use blink and run inside their dead zone, frost nova, then bolt or arcane explosion them to death. My hunter is Survival/Marksmanship with Engineering and while scattershot and grenades are on cooldown I'm screwed by those mage tactics. The mages with mana shield are almost as hard for me to kill as warriors, so use that too, and try out some different respecs/equipment to get the best balance for big PVP damage. Hunters are definitely killable by mages. I'd make the argument that any class is beatable by mages and they are excellent pvp characters with lots of utility and huge damage when specced equipped and played well. Don't expect your PVE equip/spec/strategies to work equally well in PVP, I learned that the hard way with my combat rogue, 2 respecs later she's kicking ass and taking names in BGs. Observe, adjust, experiment.
Off topic I know, but you sounded like you needed some encouragment. Being on the other side of it with my main a hunter and having been beaten by mages plenty of times, I can tell you right now a short duration long cooldown silence shot is not going to be the be-all-end-all pvp ability that totally tips the scales in hunters favor. It might help my pvp group and me survive a few times when otherwise I would have died. I'll still lose to mages sometimes though, it will wear off, they'll pop their charm and get massive pyroblast crits, run around in my deadzone blasting me with instants.
Trust me when I say, if hunters were raping mages/priests/warlocks/druids ect at an extremely high percentage of encounters, Blizzard would not give them this skill. My experiences certainly tell me this is not the case. Perhaps Blizzard feels the hunters are at a slight disadvantage.
Appology accepted...strike your name from my black book :P jk hehe
Yeah I used to play on stormreaver. I followed some friends to a pve server...bleh.
.
And now im getting bored cause its harder to get into mischief
I know every class has there ups and downs.
Just dont confuse me with the morons that come on your boards screaming for nerfs to your class.
Beleive it or not the first class I played was a hunter...long before bgs were around.
And I READ so many posts on the forums about the downsides that I quit and rolled a undead priest and lock.
Who knew they would do so well in pvp. I stopped at like at like level 24 or 27....before the feign death and scatter shot goodness.
And back to the point of buffs and nerfs and hunters silence shot hehe..... No i dont think they need it. Ive played my friends multiple hunters and when he steps foot into a bg he immediately racks up the kills. He hits so hard and fast, it doesnt matter if the mages try to run...sometimes they get away with there mana being depleted at a insane rate or they just die. Many times its the latter
Btw his hunter is maybe in tier 1 or less with quest weapons.
No tier 1 lock that I know of can do what he can regardless of skill.
WoW is too selfish though...if teams actually did work as groups then locks would be much more feared.....feared get it rofl, I crack myself up.
I dont know if you played DAOC, but assist trains and assigned CC in WoW would be a dream.
Sadly I think thats how it will remain.
Wish I didnt have to wait for warhammer /cry
A year is too long.