9Dragons: Dev Journal: Combat

Dana · November 2006

Ken Johnston looks at combat in 9Dragons in this brand new developer journal from the martial arts MMP being localized to the West by Acclaim.

9Dragons has a background story we haven't heard a hundred times, 9Dragons has period authenticity that was clearly painstaking to compile, 9Dragons has beautifully rendered artwork that likely took time off the lives of their artists ... but what those who have entered The Land (and survived) will tell you, is that the real perk of 9Dragons... is the combat system. 9Dragons combat was designed to be different than that of any other MMO from the seed stage. The designers had played the early MMO's like Everquest (where you could just click on a monster and let the stats package do the rest) and knew they wanted more, more, more. They wanted more interaction, more skill sets and to make combat more... well... more better.

Here's a glimpse of what the designers came up with...

The full article is here.

Mesopolies · November 2006

It's going ot be very interesting to see how this game turns out. I can't wait to get in and try it. Open beta is coming soon.

Qmire · November 2006

Yes the whole combat and training system, trying to make it look like real martial arts, makes it quite interesting, i just hope they go open beta soon, so we'll be able to have a taste on the product, without having too many bugs that could ruin the fun ofcourse.

The whole nameless hero, drunken master, and other martial movies over it, could overhype it so be careful, i myself seem rather doomed as i've always been a fan of the old drunken master and old kung fu movies, what a shame that it would probably be unlikely to make a succesful newbiw start like drunken master, as doing all the dirty work. So liqour coins seems fair enough heh.

One thing is for sure, it might very well be a very refreshing mmorpg to set your foot into, just hope there won't be too many complications.

Mischiff · November 2006

I really like the idea of an action, skill based MMO .. fantasy, swing your sword, cast your spell type's are getting very old .. (or i just need a break from them) and this seems to be the game that will give me that for a while; so I am hoping that its very addicting and fun to play !

action99 · November 2006

Eh...i've played a little bit. I got bored around lvl 9, and also didn't want to play, because of the character wipe, so far the fighting is still point and click. Atm i'm just sticking to Deicide and WoW.

xauss · November 2006

"Eh...i've played a little bit. I got bored around lvl 9, and also didn't want to play, because of the character wipe, so far the fighting is still point and click. Atm i'm just sticking to Deicide and WoW."

so u played it for an hour or so. since 9dragons is still in CB, testers shouldnt be discussing it, but since this info posted by MMORPG.com i have this to say - the animations for the different fighting styles make this one worth checking out just by themselves! and as you level, you can choose new improved fighting chains that look different to the chain before, with different combat mode postures and different punch, (roundhouse) kicks, knee drops, elbows etc combos... (and then there is fighting with swords / spears / staff etc.) and i'm no fanboi, but i'll be waiting for OB to post a general critique

CleffyII · November 2006

Point and Click is very disappointing in a fighting type mmo. Still I like the fighting combinations, thats one thing I was hoping for for years now.

S4ndM4n · November 2006

Im in CB and im a bit disappointed. Its just another point'n'click grind fest.

Upload · November 2006

Fantastic! See you in my collection, 9Dragons.

Qmire · November 2006

I certainly hope there will be a wasd controle feature added, never been a fan of "point and click".

Then again those who seem to spite bad stuff about this game and saying they are playing CB, are far from constructive, thus thier points are as valueable a piece of dirt is, guess untill someone makes a constructive post about CB, we'll just have to wait for OB.

Zorvan · November 2006

Originally posted by Qmire
I certainly hope there will be a wasd controle feature added, never been a fan of "point and click".
Then again those who seem to spite bad stuff about this game and saying they are playing CB, are far from constructive, thus thier points are as valueable a piece of dirt is, guess untill someone makes a constructive post about CB, we'll just have to wait for OB.

Just curious, but how is saying bad stuff when in CB unconstructive and as valuable as dirt, but a constructive post from someone in CB (I'm guessing that means someone posting good things?) is worth something? I don't know, guess you lost me on that one.

And for the record, posting anything good or bad while being in CB is not allowed.

Squishyderpy · November 2006

I'm lucky enough to be in the closed beta, and I'm not too sure about combining the moves, or even combining weapons... each clans is locked to two types of weapon (hand&feet, or the weapon - sword,spear etc...), so combining weapons style is a no-no...

As for "creating" combos, you can usually only do 1 ranged attack, 3 smasing attacks and 3 to 4 "basis/instant" attacks as warrior (equivalent of the tank sort of).

Any other class will DIE before that as you usually end up being swarmed with enemies, and due to much lower HP, you simply can't handle more than 2 npc's of the same level as yours...

the Idea is still great, but I'd strongly advise you not to expect TOO much of the game .

True there are 100's of skills to pick from BUT ... only 3/4 fighting ones will be available to start with, which all do the minimal damage of the clan (gets better as you use them), the only difference in ALL of them is how they LOOK.

I'm not trying to put the game down, but just the whole comment about the combos... I've been on both US and europeans closed beta, been at medium levels on all clans (basicallly on the US version not everything was there yet... so nothing to test as such after a certain level was reached :-) ).

what is howevere quite enjoyable is how quickly you can do the first 40/50 levels (each levels can be done in an average of 30 to 45 minutes quite easily).

I'm waiting to see more content on the game as somethings are probably still not implemented (which could explain why at a certain level, things get REALLY harder and way longer to level up).

One thing that is REALLY a turn down is the clothing items. you don't really have that much choice on it, hence the customization of your character is not that great. Still remains a very good game, but somethings if not added before the final version could be this game's downside unfortunately.

As for the combat engine, it looks super similar to the old Matrix online one, mixed with everquest/Wow style, quite typical 1 to 0 quickslots...

A combat is pretty much as follow for my warriors: Push 5 to run to the target, hit&stun then, bash them nicely on 3 and 4 to slow them and distract them, then just let the engine switch to the preferred attack style (mapped on 1)... and let the target die.... monster's dead.. next... repeat... next..repeat... help up/meditate... that's about it.

now if there is an option to "add" moves/combos/styles, this would also means that instead on focusing on 4/5 attacks, you will focus on let's say 10. by doing so, you will divide the "skill xp" gained by two, hence you will deal twice as less damage as someone with the same toon as you that only worked on 5 skills (as he/she uses them twice as much, they go up twice as fast as yours). At low level this has little to no impact... in pvp however.. and example was my Demon fighting a demon with the same stats, same equipment, same basic style, however, the other one trained 2 additional styles, making him 1/3rd of my experience on my unique style... here is how the combat happened.

"FIGHT"... charge long range to cheng 5... deals over 1500 damage... run/stun... hit once... dead.

I had to deal with 250 hp of damage during the whole fight...

In saying that the opportunity to mix style is probably nice... I think... for visual effect, but with the way things turn, and how quickly you have to face npc's that are not kidding, this switching style thing is going to make it REALLY tough for you to survive - added to that the extra slots you need for the "boosting abilities" and wound cures - fine you're given 3 quicklots, but when you can die in 6 seconds, switching quicklot can be quite... an unpleaseant thing to do

To explain this, assume you are using only 2 styles, each styles will come down to about 4 skills (minimum),then your meditation, steps, wonds treatments, ranged attack, and running skill. which is 9 out of 10 (some will use 5 attacks as to get 2 effect from the smashing skills).

now the last 5 are pretty much needed on all the bars as if you run out of chi, you want your protection skills back as soon as you stop meditating, then then wound cure is also needed (especially if in a bad situation ^_^ )... basically 5 out of 10 slots are or "should be" used reserved for those... leaving only 5 slots for combat... you get the picture... to switch style, you'll pretty much need to switch the quickslot bar... unless you're sticking to like 3/4/5 different instant attacks with no smashing/piercing/charging skills (yeah right :-) )and with macroing not being allowed... it's all gotta be done manually step by step...

and that's it for me :-P

Lougarou · November 2006

To quote myself

Originally posted by Lougarou
Hey folks,
since the NDA is kinda lifted thanks to the EU publisher not caring
about it (they recently started their CB), I'd like to give my 2 cents
about the game.

Graphics : decent for a free game if you turn
the bloom on, not so good otherwise. I'd say it's between Hero Online
and Silkroad Online. Major problem though is you can't select a higher
screen resolution than 1024*768 so if you have a 19" or bigger monitor
like me, you are stuck with a horrible resolution.

Story :
There's a nice background available on Acclaim 9D website but honestly,
you don't see much of it ingame and you'll be busy grinding on mobs
anyway.

Quests : About 1 per level, the exp gain from them is
just ridiculous (something like 5%), you have to grind the other 95%.
Their content is the usual Kill x mobs, FedEx x item with a few
exceptions and sometime a timer.

Translation : Usually Korean MMOs are poorly translated, this one is ok.

UI
/ Interface : as usual with Korean MMOs UI, it's very frustating, you
can't customize anything, you're stuck with the default settings, can't
add more shortcut bars (only switch to 2nd and 3rd with a key but it's
not very practical), can't customize keys either...

Clans / Guilds : You can form a guild (called Hero Band) but only
with people from the same clan. You can group with people of the same
alliance (black/white), you can trade and talk with opposite faction
members in a Neutral area (Hefei).

Party system : You can create
a party up to 9 people (you'll get an exp bonus if it reaches this
limit), item share/individual and exp share/individual are available
options. Note that you still get exp bonus in individual (non-share)
mode, as long as the 9 people are in the same map.

Community :
Not much to say, Closed Beta communities are always nice altough there
weren't that much people around, I'm sure this will change in OB.

Skills
system : You increase your skills level by using them (up to 10) and
honestly, it's very grindy. If you want to level up a buff or heal, you
have to AFK spam it (this will be a macro'ers fest I tell you). Some
skills increase by 0.01% EXP per cast at level 1 (Hybrid damage reflect
buff), most of other heals of buffs become 0.01% EXP per cast at level
4 or 5.

Gameplay / Battle system : Honestly, you don't have as
much freedom as the press reviews say with your Martial Art. Skill
system is very linear. Battle is your usual auto-target auto-attack and
throw a few skills. It's hard to explain but most of you who excepted a
battle system with huge freedom/possibilities, combo etc... will be
heavily disappointed. To tell you the truth, I found Hero Online battle
system much more fun and dynamic.

Classes balance : Simply put,
Caster classes are broken (I mean really broken) and I doubt this will
be fixed any time soon (if at all). Just don't roll a caster if you
don't really know what class to choose. Most players will roll a
Warrior anyway, they are imba in PvP (1 shot people).

Crafting : none so far.

Upgrading
: Weaposn upgrading system similar to Ragnarok Online, just replace
Oridecons with Blood Essence. You need one to +3 your weapon, 2 to +4
it, 3 to +5 etc... with a chance to fail and lose both.

Overall,
this game is nowhere near P2P quality, that's good since it'll be F2P
and I'm sure it'll be as popular as HO or SRO. I myself won't be
playing it though.

Upload · November 2006

Originally posted by Lougarou
To quote myself

Quests : About 1 per level, the exp gain from them is just ridiculous (something like 5%), you have to grind the other 95%. Their content is the usual Kill x mobs, FedEx x item with a few exceptions and sometime a timer.

Some people are actualy willing to put some effort in a game. Stop whining about this grinding things, your not forced to it.

Squishyderpy · November 2006

Originally posted by Lougarou
To quote myself

Quests : About 1 per level, the exp gain from them is just ridiculous (something like 5%), you have to grind the other 95%. Their content is the usual Kill x mobs, FedEx x item with a few exceptions and sometime a timer.

the actual thing is that at lower level 5% is like 2 npc's.

At higher levels however, the quests seems to remains at 5%, as such worth a LOT more of npc's which are harder to kill... so it's not a bad thing in my eyes

action99 · November 2006

well, ty for saying my input is dirt, but i can't really be constructive without breaking the rules of the CB testing agreement. Not that I care about breaking rules, i'd just like to respect Acclaim. And as for putting in effort, i play Deicide which is nothing but grinding and pking, since no quests are added and it is still in OB. And also i play WoW which is mainly nothing but quests. And I put a lot of effort into both, and they are great games. 9D not so great, at least right now, and what i said about the combat, during it is basically the same as any other mmo, you click to attack and the only interaction during is using special moves like using a spell. And also not gonna put in that much effort, when my character will be wiped at the start of OB. And like mentioned in above posts, do not expect too much of this game. For you will be disappointed, believe me, b4 invited to CB i thought it was going to be great.

Stalinfalcon · November 2006

A couple posts up a comment was made that 9Dragons wasn't P2P quality. What exactly IS your definition of 'P2P quality'? I CERTAINLY hope that Lineage 2 is NOT your definition of P2P quality LOLOL. I took a break from 9Dragons to do the 14-day trial of Lineage2, which just ended now for me. Two years of retail in the West, two YEARS of P2P, and that game is a horrifying CRASH-FEST, an issue I have YET to encounter with 9Dragons.

No, people need to start DEFINING what they consider the term 'P2P quality' means, coz it is beginning to get a bit over-used, along with the terms 'grind-fest' and 'Carebear'.

To the person who 'is sticking with Deicide'... Holy Catfish Batman!!!! I can't BELIEVE I just read that!!! DAYUM and what Dimension are you living in where Deicide suddenly became a 'P2P quality' game? LOLOL! Talk about GRIND-FESTS!!! ZOMGWTFCATFISHBBQQFTXYZPDQLOLORZZZZZZ

Stalinfalcon · November 2006

action99, um... , my fellow CB friend. Instead of mocking you even MORE for being a devout advocate of Deicide (hey, some people believe in the Big Kahuna too), I will instead condemn you for misinterpreting CB for meaning 'Cautionary Buy' instead of 'Closed Beta'. You are in CB to test the hardware, plain and simple. You are NOT in the CB to max your character so you can twink out a fresh one at launch. CBs that do not involve wipes are few and far between. Grow up action99; better yet, go smoke another blunt and aimlessly waste your time in Deicide ^^ Good day.

action99 · November 2006

Well for one thing i said Deicide is a good game, i never said it was P2P quality, the other guy was talking about P2P quality, and if you read i metioned that deicide is a grindfest ATM. And if the Closed Beta game was good i wouldn't mind the character wipe, i would play to get good, and get a solid character after OB. But i don't see the point in learning 9D, because I don't see myself even making a character during OB or even after official release. I just don't see that much in this game.

Lougarou · November 2006

Originally posted by Stalinfalcon
A couple posts up a comment was made that 9Dragons wasn't P2P quality. What exactly IS your definition of 'P2P quality'? I CERTAINLY hope that Lineage 2 is NOT your definition of P2P quality LOLOL. I took a break from 9Dragons to do the 14-day trial of Lineage2, which just ended now for me. Two years of retail in the West, two YEARS of P2P, and that game is a horrifying CRASH-FEST, an issue I have YET to encounter with 9Dragons. No, people need to start DEFINING what they consider the term 'P2P quality' means, coz it is beginning to get a bit over-used, along with the terms 'grind-fest' and 'Carebear'. To the person who 'is sticking with Deicide'... Holy Catfish Batman!!!! I can't BELIEVE I just read that!!! DAYUM and what Dimension are you living in where Deicide suddenly became a 'P2P quality' game? LOLOL! Talk about GRIND-FESTS!!! ZOMGWTFCATFISHBBQQFTXYZPDQLOLORZZZZZZ

P2P Quality means a game you are willing to pay to play. If 9Dragons was P2P, would you still play ?

action99 · November 2006

In my opinion, as of right now, 9 Dragons isn't F2P quality.

xauss · November 2006

Originally posted by Stalinfalcon ...

No, people need to start DEFINING what they consider the term 'P2P quality' means, coz it is beginning to get a bit over-used, along with the terms 'grind-fest' and 'Carebear'.

P2P quality is self evident - good enough to warrant YOU (or anyone) paying a subscription (any game is F2P quality)

grindfest - exactly that, farming mobs over and over and over again ad naseum

carebear aka karebear - term used by l33t kidz when they dont have the possibiity to FFAPVP so they can gank lowbies to feel like a big man

Vanguarde · November 2006

I am in CB, and i can tell you the OP is wrong on all front. I however played my character all the way to level 45. And you can combine different martial arts combination for combos instead of just point and click. I t not just point and click game. Early newbie levels it seems it is, but as you grow andadvance in levels you will be able to combine combos with different styles of kungfu.

sodom1234 · December 2006

Hello,

i'am testing is also.. and it playes like RF, Archlord, Linage II etc.etc,

It's just another asia grind till your eyes bleed.

The questsystem is little better than most games of this style but the amount and quality of quests is simply to low.

The skillsystem cries so loud for bots that it will get the same playerbase as RF. 1/3 human player.. 1/3 autofarming bots and 1/3 autotraining bots. (I need to press my buff button 1000 times to gain a update from chi 2 to 3 from 1 to 2 it were only 300 .. you see the image ? I need chi 8 to get my updated buff skill ... i just don't get ist. Why did game developer think this is fun at all.)

They have a greater number of skills but most skills are simply upgraded versions of your base skills. So most players simpy use 2-4 skills activly. (Every class has some buffs they activate priviously)

The AI is stupid like hell..

dippitydodah · December 2006

I don't see why anyone expected more from this. All these asian based games are usually in the box grind fests completely lacking any depth what so ever.

Sure there are always exceptions to the ruel, however I haven't seen one yet. I played and enjoyed lineage 2 for quite a while, however it definetly goes into this catagorey as well and honestly couldn't tell you why I liked it at the time so much.

I'm hoping that 2moons combat will be as awesome as it looks tho, however for the game itself I'm sure it will be another mindless grind fest too.

cthornett · December 2006

What NDA? There ain't one. Yes, it's a closed beta, in the sense that a limited number of people are playing, but that's it.

There are more quests once you get a clan, so when anyone says there's only 1 quest a level they're still low-level in terms of the whole game. It's a Korean game licensed in Europe and America, so:

Grindy as hell *Check*
Click to move navigation with weak pathing *Check*
Shallow story lines *Check*
Obscure and probably unintentionally obtuse quests *Check*

It's Free to Play and it is playable, has some good features and some crappy elements that make it frustrating and a pretty average game with a lot of potential, *if* the devs were prepared to do some alterations. It's unclear how much they're willing to do and the debate about WASD still rages on the forums.

I could do a full blown preview, but I'll leave that to some poor bod on the MMORPG.com staff to wade through...

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9Dragons: Dev Journal: Combat

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