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PVP, PK etc.
I am wondering if the bad karma system will ever be effective. Psychotic PK ers who like to run up to unsuspecting players, would gladly give up the karma for their version of "fun". I think not only the character, but also the players account with all characters on it should be flagged. Otherwise it will foster a "pet PKer" that a player can have and log on with impunity without fear of retribution.
I think the PKing/ PVP has to be purely optional. Newbs fearing to leave the gates due to sociopathic kids lurking out of guard range seems like sooo much "fun." It reminds me of the early days of UO, back in its heyday. You would be out killin' some mob and suddenly some bloke in black would show up and whack you...
So what is everyone elses opinion on the matter? While DAOC's PVP (RVR) is flawed, it seems like a better system than karma. As for arena type pvp, it just bites...so how does one spare the innocents? Level limits? PVP zones? Free for all?
I am not trying to start a pvp vs. non pvp war here, just thinking how to best accomodate both in one game.
Anthrorob
Comments
At first I hated the thought of out-right random PvP. But I gave it a chance today and it is actually fun. A DE was pking just behind the village, I saw him kill another person who was afk. Of course I was lower level so I ran, he soon caught up and bowed me. 2 hours later I was back out and he killed a girl I was talking to, I ran again. But that time I figured what the heck? I ened up killing him and dying by him again. All in all I think its fun most of the time.
But I heard some people saying that Lineage2 will have a non-pvp server and a pvp-server like EQ. I doubt it will happen, Lineage2 is all about Pvp and Sieges.
Beta tester supreme
I really like this method of PvP. You will know who the PKers are...they'll be the ones in red.
Ah shit....deleted my message....
Anyways - For those who don't want to PvP....they don't have to, just die! Then it'll be a PK and that guy will be red.
If you want to make a "pet PK'er", I say go ahead and try. While your making your multi-character's, I'll be on my 1 and many levels ahead of you!
There isn't much to worry about though, IMO. When a character becomes red, people know he PK'd, and others will try to kill that red guy. He's become...a free opportunity to kill somebody else. I know when I see red, I usually attack!
But back to the question at hand: How to best accomodate both.....................
You can't. If you don't want it....don't play it! Buh-bye!
http://www.simulatedsports.com
http://www.hattrick.org
---------------------------------------------
http://www.simulatedsports.com
http://www.hattrick.org
Anthrorob,
There is a huge negative to being a PKer then just the bad karma, let me explain.
Once you are falgged a PKer (either you murdered someone on purpose or by accident) you gain karma and your name is now Red.
You can no longer use any town.
No NPC will talk to you.
All guards will attack you on sight.
Certain forest creatures (like pixies and tree'ents) will attack you on sight.
Because you can no longer talk to NPC's, you can no longer train any skills.
Anytime you die you have an incerbibly high chance of dropping some or even all of your equipment.
Because of the high equipment drop, other players will swarm to kill a PKer to hopefully get there loot.
Killing a PKer does not make you a PKer, so you have unlimited chances to kill them in hopes to gain there equipment.
They can't talk to NPC's so they can't use a warehouse to store their equipment.
I am not sure if I am missing anything... I will check back later to be sure.
As you can see, to be a PKer is not something to strive for. Right now North America is in closed beta and the characters are getting wiped, so people don't really care about there toons and want to run around and goof off and kill or do what ever they want to do. On release you will only see Red players when someone gets really pissed at someone else (maybe a griefer or someone killing a griefer) and kills them, then quickly attempts to work off the karma gained.
Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface.
-Raptor
Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface.
-Raptor
What raptor said is very right on. There are harsh penalties for racking up the karma.
I don't think lineage is meant to accomodate both pvp and non-pvpers. We will see what they do with different servers, maybe they will have different pvp styles on different servers. But the game as it stands allows for open pvp, and thats the plan. It seems like ncsoft was attempting to cover everyone with 2 games, CoH with no pvp, and lineage with open pvp.
I will probably play both for a long time based on what I've seen so far. Appeasing both the "care-bear" and the "1337ist" in me:)
Nolf - Master Asshat
Someone's gotta do it!
I really hope that *insert game name here* will be the first game to ever live up to all of its pre-release promises, maintain a manageable hype level and have a clean release. Just don't expect me to hold my breath.
Dont get mad because your mom works the circut
"Dont get mad because your mom works the circut"
-Paul Wortman
i think the pvp system is just fine. in retail nobody will go on pking spree for long. the penalties of being red are decent. u cant use shops so u cant buy anything, guards will attack you on sight so its hard to get in town too. players will chase you alot hopeing to kill ya and get a nice drop from you... and u will drop ur equipment pretty often when u are red. basicly u will fall behind alot cause you cant level properly and u cant risk fighting strong mobs cause u can loose some good gear. also u cant ugprade ur equipment without getting help. all u need is to die and drop your armor and u are gimped big time. there will be problems in early levels.. pkers killing noobs and all but after some time things will be fine. people will stick to clan wars and castle sieges and duels basicly.
(o'.')--------oo----('.'o)
(o'.')--------oo----('.'o)
The PvP system what makes Lineage 2 so special. If you want optional PvP only go play FF XI. They will add that soon there.
Lineage is a PvP game.
If you don't like that that's ok but then you got a ton of other games to choose from.
And no i am no PKer. Looking forward to those sieges.
PKers make life risky and therefore less boring in a game.
Im about to get in the agme right now...
What happens if you die from a pker? Do you respawn?
(o'.')--------oo----('.'o)
(o'.')--------oo----('.'o)
Sorry bud, you won't be playing today. Well not till after 8pm texas time.
PS
If you die from a PKer you lose 1-10% XP and have a 0.0015% chance of losing an item. You respawn to the nearest village.
Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface.
-Raptor
Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface.
-Raptor
Thoemse I just want to make sure that you understand something (this is not meant as an insult).
PvP is not the same as PK.
Lineage 2 offers both but severely penalizes PKing. You can still PK, perhaps to rid your area of a griefer or to be a griefer yourself or maybe just role-playing an evil character, if you choose to you can PK all you want but you are severely punished for it.
Unlike Shadowbane, Lineage 2 PvP is not a free for all. You will have little fear of being ganked while resting after a battle or while being afk. This of course would vary to a degree with how hated/liked you or your clan was.
I totally disagree with DoomScythe about the "easy way around it" theory. Every time you die you lose XP and the higher level you are the longer it takes to get a few percent points of XP. Having a friend kill you a bunch of times will drop your XP each death and unless you friend is much much higher level then you are, you hardly lose any Karma from the deaths, this is not an "easy way out". Also finding quite areas can be done but is not easy. Your friend would have to be Johnny on the spot once you turn red (or you would have to log out and wait for the friend) and your friend would have to scope out the area and find a way to get to that area with out you being seen, and then guard you all the while you work off the Karma. This is by no means a simple walk in the park and can become very frustrating.
If you killed someone to rid the area of a griefer and then you die 2 or more times due to being red, the griefer still got you much worse then you got him (example).
Karma can be lost but it by no means should ever be considered "easy".
Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface.
-Raptor
Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface.
-Raptor
(o'.')--------oo----('.'o)
(o'.')--------oo----('.'o)
Should be like 11pm EST
Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface.
-Raptor
Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface.
-Raptor
Actually we've been waiting for PvP in FFXI since launch. They've had the "PvP Coming soon!" segment on playonline's website since last November.
Anyhoo, how's it going Raptor? Nice information on the PvP system for the game, a few friends and I are planning on trying it out when open beta starts. Any opinions on other aspects of the game that I should be aware of before trying it?
As I stated in another thread I dislike L2's version of PvP. From all the things I read about the game mechanics prior to participating in the CB I came to believe that there was more to the PvP system and not that it only applied to castle sieges. Waiting that long for PvP is something that neither I nor my 3 other friends in CB are willing to wait for. We were willing to overlook other portions of this game but once we discovered that roleplaying up our race's hatred for others would in the end cost us dearly, we logged off and uninstalled the game from our PCs. L2 testers proclaim that L2's PvP system is "hardcore"....kids, you don't know what you're talking about.
To those that say as I beta tester I should be discovering bugs, etc.: Yes I did that for 90% of the time. I've beta tested games since EQ, I know what I'm doing.
To all those others that want to flame me...
..go for it. 
sit and spin
Beta tester supreme
Beta tester supreme
My worries are someone getting around most of the negatives simply by running two accounts. The only one in the list of negatives that can't be worked is the skill gains, so once a high skill player gets bored and ebays... that character is going to be prime ganking material. All his loot can be stashed by Goodie2shoes, his other character. Goodie can also buy him new equipment... perhaps from the very players he kills.
Rampant PKers wont be a problem in the few months after release. But once we it common to have top line characters, we'll start to see much more of it.
Don't try to teach a pig to sing,
It rarely works and only serves to annoy the pig.
-Sig-
Don't try to teach a pig to sing,
It rarely works and only serves to annoy the pig.
The part I hate is how you can't defend yourself.
I'm not sure I understand the machanics of this quite clearly, as it has not happened to me yet, but it looks like the situation can be like this:
A white player approaches and attacks you, turning Purple. You do no automatically defend yourself, if you want to fight back, you must explicitly attack them, which results in you turning Purple (which is supposed to indicate Aggressive player). So now, if you kill off your attacker, you become Red. Or, even worse, is now your attacker's band of merry men come out of the bushes and attacks you, kills you, and no one turns Red because you were Purple.
Is that how it works?
No, thats not how it works.
Everyone starts with a white name.
If a white player attacks another white player the attacker becomes purple. If the white player being attacked doesnt fight back and stays white and the attacking purple player kills him then the attacker becomes red and stays red until they work off the bad karma. If the attacker doesnt kill the white player and backs off, the attackers name will turn back to white after a little bit.
Same scenario above but the white player being attacked fights back. Once they fight back they become purple like the attacker and no matter who wins or if they stop fighting the survivors will turn back to white after the fight.
If someone is red anyone can attack them and kill them and will remain white the whole time.
When you hear people complaining about not being able to defend themselves its usually red players who have random pked someone who didnt fight back. Once you are red you have no rights to defend yourself and if you do kill someone who is attacking you you get even more bad karma and will have to work even harder to get out of being a red named player.
Everthing else I agree with except this line from you Misti. Where do you get off telling someone that they don't have the right to defend themselves????? That's just a stupid comment, IMHO.
Beta tester supreme
Beta tester supreme
She didn't mean it that way. She meant that if a white player attacks the red player first, and the red player ends up killing the white player, the red players karma will go up even though he didn't initate the attack.
- - "What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?" - -
- - "What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?" - -
Its in no way my opinion that a red shouldnt be able to defend themselves sorry you missunderstood. Its the developers who programmed it this way that are saying you have no right not me.