Combat looks sooo slowwwwww

scaramoosh · November 2006

I love how for the first time ive seen in a mmo that combat looks more like playing a wwe game but it just looks wayyyy too slow :

http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=1988

2 new trailers

Moonglo · November 2006

I am not positive about what you mean when you say the combat is way too slow. I have watched the 2 videos you linked and they seem fairly well paced for the type of combat G&H seems to be going for.

I have played WoW, where you walk up to the creature, or it agros you, you get to range, hit autoattack, wait a few hits to build rage, then perform a rend,execute, ww or whatever. Most of the battle is spent using the standard auto attack. There is little decision making to be made in a standard encounter, a bit more choice opens up in raid and boss encounters.

I haven't played G&H...yet...but rest assured I am wanting to badly

. But following the official forums, the blogs from Deodatus, and the pretty much daily communication from the devs I can tell you emphatically that G&H isnt going for that kind of fight style. They are going more for a tactical, aka choice-based, type of encounter. They have categorically said combat will not be a "Push button. Receive Bacon" form, but an interactive one.

As a side note their video releases so far seem to be heavily promoting the gladiator class. The gladiator class relies heavily on what is called "paired moves." Basically paired moves allow them to front load alot of damage by setting up heavy hitting combos, but they then are ineffective as they recover from these moves longer than say a soldier or a rogue would.

I envision the typical G&H, melee, fight to be more along the lines of rock, paper, scissors type combat. Where you size up your opponent, know his weaknesses and conciously click the counter moves to what the combatent you are facing is trying to do. This slows down the melee "rounds" a bit as compared to games like WoW, L2 etc. but makes you feel in control of your fight. Not to mention you need a bit of time to direct your minions.

It makes me think somewhat of my mercenary in DAOC. We were positional specialists. Depending on what our opponent was doing and where we were during combat we had powerful moves and combinations available to us. Facing off head-to-head(front to front) our moves were much more limited and less powerful than our side and rear positional moves.

No one will truly know until we get more info from the devs and see more movies with the actual UI buttons being visable etc or until NDA's are lifted. I just hope you stick with it long enough and get a chance to applaud or criticize them in a beta test.

Hope this helps a bit.

keygan · November 2006

Does look a little slow from a traditional sense, but who knows. It seems to be a new style that will either be the new hype or the brand new disater, i am banking on the first one.

Pantastic · November 2006

I think the speed is fine, I'm not a big fan of super-twitch combat. I don't know that I like the staticness of it though, it looks like you pretty much stand in place to fight and only move if a particular attack has a move animation. I'll take 'stand in place' over WOW's 'move all the time, circle-strafe, mouse-turn to keep him from getting behind you' PVP, but I'd really rather there be some need to move around.

neuronomad · November 2006

Originally posted by Pantastic

I think the speed is fine, I'm not a big fan of super-twitch combat. I don't know that I like the staticness of it though, it looks like you pretty much stand in place to fight and only move if a particular attack has a move animation. I'll take 'stand in place' over WOW's 'move all the time, circle-strafe, mouse-turn to keep him from getting behind you' PVP, but I'd really rather there be some need to move around.

Had some run ins with Rogues huh? I feel your pain.

Thor · November 2006

Moonglo nailed it. As he said, most games have an auto-attack that fires off every X-seconds based on weapon speed and you then throw in a special attack every now and then. What that does is give the appearence of really fast combat, which I guess it is, but easily half of that combat is spent with auto-attack going. G&H basically removed the auto-attack between special moves so it's really all special moves, all attacks are you choice. If they threw in the auto-attack between moves then the speed would look like what most are used to.

Khanstant · November 2006

The Gladiator trailer is a bit slow paced but I think that's an older vid. I think I've seen it at the official boards before. The second trailer though looks pretty well-paced to me. Maybe a bit faster than in say WoW or EQ2 with the tank type classes.

happilpie · November 2006

I personally wouldnt want it too fast because I want to be able to control all my precious minions and have them attacking how, when, and who I want them to.

It looks just right to me for now, I'll see how it is when I either get in beta or buy the game when it comes out.

This game is still in development afterall and things are subject to change. Just glad we have such a good PR person (Deo's Space) for us to read up on changes that have or that will take place eventually.

xauss · November 2006

im hoping the combat will be rewarding as opposed to a purely skill spamming button mash.

but no one will know till theyve played it

happilpie · November 2006

Originally posted by xauss

im hoping the combat will be rewarding as opposed to a purely skill spamming button mash.
but no one will know till theyve played it

Might try reading this blog on Deo's Space.

http://community.godsandheroes.com/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=3515&tstart=0

Your right we won't know till we play it, but it doesn't sound like to much button mashing to me. (Although Im sure you have to push buttons to command your squad) But do you really want the game to play its self or do you wanna play the game?

Pantastic · November 2006

Originally posted by neuronomad
Had some run ins with Rogues huh? I feel your pain.

I also played a dagger rogue and feral druid both to 60, and before WOW I used the keyboard to turn . But you'd get other silliness with other classes, and melle class against a caster would try to run through to interrupt casing, warriors with slow weapons would do that jousting thing to hit just on their weapon swing, and other stuff. It didn't really feel tactical or like real combat (where people do maneuver for position but not in a circle-strafe way), it felt very gamey and gimmicky.

reznick · November 2006

Agreeing with Moonglo here. Besides, until you get into this game, you can't really make an evaluation of how it will play. Minions, god influence, etc. are different than other MMOs, and creates a different game play dynamic. Forget about how WoW works. G&H could be setting a standard for future MMOs here. Battle may seem slower, but only because your battle decisions make a bigger difference here. If things moved too quickly, controlling your minions could prove daunting. I think the pacing is designed to make battle a more tactical experience. Trust me, you will have your hands full during a battle, esp. with taking command of multiple minions. It isn't just push the button and watch HPs float over everyone's heads.

Tinybina · November 2006

Originally posted by Pantastic
I think the speed is fine, I'm not a big fan of super-twitch combat. I don't know that I like the staticness of it though, it looks like you pretty much stand in place to fight and only move if a particular attack has a move animation. I'll take 'stand in place' over WOW's 'move all the time, circle-strafe, mouse-turn to keep him from getting behind you' PVP, but I'd really rather there be some need to move around.

If you go back and watch old videos of WOW during beta it looked like that Stand in place crap too...As most games do..

Its usually the players that add thier little flare to the game movement.. Im sure once Gods and Hero's is out you will see people doing the same thing you see in WOW, DAOC, AO, etc as far as moving during combat.

Arcona · November 2006

6 combat videos here (115 mb file)

http://www.actiontrip.com/files/movies/godsheroesromerising.phtml

slow?

Characters fly up the air, and monsters jump on them etc...

kageryuu · November 2006

to me i think this game is just crap...cause one thing its exactly freaking like stupid guild wars with the control and fight npcs...i think that is just stupid man...expecially the slow battle fighting just horribly done...i think that they should at least also make the way they fight better cause...no offence but they kinda look stupid man...horrible...just horrible...lol now that i think about it perpetual entertainment has a horrible start...man...this just.......makes me soo mad that they like to waste thier money and with other ppl buying this crappy game soon no way man......i say spend your money somewhere else and i mean it this is stupid like guildwars.....end of story all i can say....

bugzonlsd · November 2006

Originally posted by kageryuu

to me i think this game is just crap...cause one thing its exactly freaking like stupid guild wars with the control and fight npcs...i think that is just stupid man...expecially the slow battle fighting just horribly done...i think that they should at least also make the way they fight better cause...no offence but they kinda look stupid man...horrible...just horrible...lol now that i think about it perpetual entertainment has a horrible start...man...this just.......makes me soo mad that they like to waste thier money and with other ppl buying this crappy game soon no way man......i say spend your money somewhere else and i mean it this is stupid like guildwars.....end of story all i can say....

It all bothers you that much? I dont think this game is gonna be like guildwars at all, matter of fact its been asked on the offical boards if it was or not and the cms say they are two completly different games which is coming from people who have played both so I'll take thier words for it.

One question for ya there slick, why create a new id to trashtalk an mmo on an mmo forum instead of being yourself and using your real forum Id? just an observation dont get upset. Id give the game a try during open beta or when it comes out and reserve those unwarrented opinions till then.

Aquila26 · November 2006

I dont think it looks slow at all, the process of battle seems to be action vs reaction more then it does a one side 5-10 second battle. The game has many, many battle animations. I think once we all play we will see that strategy comes in to play a more of a part then the typical running around hacking at each other but hey thats just my opinion.

ssbaxter626 · November 2006

I think the speed is fine for what style they're going for in this game. I also think the Gladiator trailer might seem slower than it will be in the game because it's older. I think this style of combat will be the new hype when this game is released and I'm looking forward to it.

tfranklin32 · December 2006

I don't think it looks that slow. I think that's what they want. We'll just have to wait and see what it looks like in actual game play.

Sonicflood · December 2006

For G&H the combat speed is fine. This game is really only part Mythology, and to make the game really realistic combat will have to be a little slower than in other games...soldiers just didnt attack at lightspeed!

joeballs · December 2006

It doesn't look slow to me. In fact, it's a bit faster than if it were a real life fight.

the problem I have with it is the minion animations. They're too much the same. The game would look so much better if they randomized the combat animations between all the minions. The fact that they all do the same move at almost the same time makes it look a little unrealistic.

andycplnd · December 2006

Originally posted by Khanstant
The Gladiator trailer is a bit slow paced but I think that's an older vid. I think I've seen it at the official boards before. The second trailer though looks pretty well-paced to me. Maybe a bit faster than in say WoW or EQ2 with the tank type classes.

I'm pretty sure the Gladiator trailer is older and that's why it's slower. I think when the game is released it will move quicker than that.

Arcticwolf · January 2007

Originally posted by Moonglo

I am not positive about what you mean when you say the combat is way too slow. I have watched the 2 videos you linked and they seem fairly well paced for the type of combat G&H seems to be going for.

I have played WoW, where you walk up to the creature, or it agros you, you get to range, hit autoattack, wait a few hits to build rage, then perform a rend,execute, ww or whatever. Most of the battle is spent using the standard auto attack. There is little decision making to be made in a standard encounter, a bit more choice opens up in raid and boss encounters.

I haven't played G&H...yet...but rest assured I am wanting to badly . But following the official forums, the blogs from Deodatus, and the pretty much daily communication from the devs I can tell you emphatically that G&H isnt going for that kind of fight style. They are going more for a tactical, aka choice-based, type of encounter. They have categorically said combat will not be a "Push button. Receive Bacon" form, but an interactive one.

As a side note their video releases so far seem to be heavily promoting the gladiator class. The gladiator class relies heavily on what is called "paired moves." Basically paired moves allow them to front load alot of damage by setting up heavy hitting combos, but they then are ineffective as they recover from these moves longer than say a soldier or a rogue would.

I envision the typical G&H, melee, fight to be more along the lines of rock, paper, scissors type combat. Where you size up your opponent, know his weaknesses and conciously click the counter moves to what the combatent you are facing is trying to do. This slows down the melee "rounds" a bit as compared to games like WoW, L2 etc. but makes you feel in control of your fight. Not to mention you need a bit of time to direct your minions.

It makes me think somewhat of my mercenary in DAOC. We were positional specialists. Depending on what our opponent was doing and where we were during combat we had powerful moves and combinations available to us. Facing off head-to-head(front to front) our moves were much more limited and less powerful than our side and rear positional moves.

No one will truly know until we get more info from the devs and see more movies with the actual UI buttons being visable etc or until NDA's are lifted. I just hope you stick with it long enough and get a chance to applaud or criticize them in a beta test.

Hope this helps a bit.

Let's face it the combat looks boring and slow, and probably won't need any movement or at least much at all. As for WoW, you choose to show the results of one of the easiest and boring classes to play ( The Warrior / Debatable ) try a mage and see a lot of choices you have to pick over in the battle system gameplay among with other classes in the game, what I'm getting at is, you won't win with just standing in one place.

Now another poster stated how he would rather stand in place than run around and do 360 turns, personally I like doing that, because it kills the people who don't do that and leaves maybe a small tab of skill of option, and your lazy, it's like saying don't buy the Wii system because it's to much work ( in my eyes )

Also a faster paced combat usually leaves for more skill / more exciting combat / and better player vs player, as I see it.

So far I see some, Let's take turn on who can pick each other up and slow paced combat, I think people will get bored really fast. I think people would like to see more flashy combat/fast paced other than some videos on buffs/slow combat/slow grab moves.

My 0.02$

Savage16 · January 2007

I completly agree Arctic, nice post.

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Combat looks sooo slowwwwww

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Combat looks sooo slowwwwww

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