PvP vs. RP characters - What am I missing?

Thinman · December 2006

I've got a question for the GW vets out there..

(I just got into guild wars in the last couple of days, and since this game is quite complex I have a hundred questions, but I have one major question at the moment)....

The question is, I read a post on here awhile back where someone was complaining that with being able to buy the skill sets for the different editions of guild wars, someone could just make a pvp character, and pay money to be just as powerful as someone who spent all of the time to build an rp character.

I've got the sense that this person had no idea what they were talking about, because it seems like there are differences between RP and PvP characters, from what I've seen so far.

But I have no idea where those differences come from, and whether it is true that PvP characters w/ the skills bought are more powerful or not.

So I guess my question is, could someone be just as powerful, without help from others, without making any RP characters at all? I've seen that you can buy skills and runes and such with balthazar faction, but what about items, and any bonuses that may be gotten along the RP campaign?

I suppose my question, put most clearly, is:

Would someone who made only a PvP character ultimately be just as powerful as someone who played both RP and PvP characters?

I'm thinking that the answer is that making RP characters can give you an edge, but I'm not sure how they would have an edge, or how that edge would be gotten.

Any clarity would be appreciated.

Bent · December 2006

Well that way it is now... PvP char have access to anything
you've unlocked with your PvE chars, anything you bought with bathazar faction,
or by buying a PvP edition of the game.

Before NF chars could change armor in PvP battles. This allowed PvE chars
(that have a couple suit of armor) to switch to the best set. You could
enter the match with lighting resistance armor and if you find yourself
fighting fire users switch. You can't do
this anymore. Secondly, with the new inscription system the came with NF
and PvP char should be able to match any item a PvE char have. Though
your PvP-only chars do have access to you vault so can readily use anything you
collected.

Over and over PvP char were considered temporary. Make a blood necro; delete them and make a
curse necro. This was much faster and
cheaper then trying to turn a PvE blood necro into a curse necro (you have to
buy new armor and runes). Once again NF
changed this, because you can respawn your armor and runes on your PvP chars
without having to delete them.

It is clear Anet wants PvP-only to be an option. The people that would consider PvP-only
edition obviously dont want to be disadvantaged. IMO Anet is doing everything that can to make
them equal.

So I guess my question is, could someone be just as
powerful, without help from others, without making any RP characters at
all? I've seen that you can buy skills and runes and such with balthazar
faction, but what about items, and any bonuses that may be gotten along the RP
campaign?

I suppose my question, put most clearly, is:

Would someone who made only a PvP character ultimately be just as powerful as
someone who played both RP and PvP characters?

Yes, though it would take a very long time if you tried to
unlock everything with just Balthazar faction. But you could purchase the PvP-only Edition of
the game. Which will give you access to
all skills for that chapter. You would
still need to unlock runes, heros, and inscriptions.

Ultimately? Well, if
someone spent 500 hours playing 50% PvE and 50% PvP fights someone that plays 100%
PvP. My money would be on the PvPer. In all honestly you only need 8 skills
unlocked and a couple of runes. Someone
that have 900 skills unlocked and never PvP before will lose to someone with 20
skills unlocked that has PvPed for a week.

I would guess 80-90% of the people you see in PvP areas are
PvP-only chars. Im sure you have an
idea how competitive online games can be. If PvE chars had an advantage those number
would be much higher, and PvP-only people would be considered newbs However,
PvP-only is the accepted.

Closing. IMO there is
no difference. Over the course of Guild
Wars at certain times there were, BUT Anet was quick to equalize them. As an example there was a helm that reduced
hex duration that could only be obtained from PvE. It became popular to use in PvP. Well now that helm is a selectable option for
PvP-only chars.

A more important question I think you need to ask yourself. Because I assuming youre trying to decide to
buy the PvP edition instead of the regular is what kinda PvP you want to do for
yourself? If you want to do high end PvP
you likely going to need skills from all three chapters. And even then many of the decent guilds dont
just let newbs in. And it can be quite
frustrating trying to grow out of newbness. Thus, PvE can be a pleasant distraction. Youll also quickly find that Pick up Group
PvP is overly frustrating as well, and most of the good PvP guilds dont PvP in
every area 100% of the time. So, once
again the PvE game can give you something to do while you want for you team to
log on.

A slight exception still exists for Ranger pets. All pets (bear, wolf, bird) have the same DPS,
but some attack faster or slower then others.
So if you cast a spell that made the pet do +15 extra damage every
attack a faster attacking pet would do more damage then a slower attacking pet.
The opposite is true for armor penetration. However, I know of no competitive match this
ever became an issue.

The main discussion about the PvP editions you referred to is
that In the past it would take say ~300-500+hr of focused play to unlock all
the skills for one chapter. Now for $40 you can unlock all of those skills
instantly for PvP-only. It allowed new
players to catch up unlock wise without having to play 1000+ hours. Though keep in mind you can only take 8 skills
into battle with you. So you obviously
dont need every skill unlocked. Some
skills you will never use in PvP. But
the option is there. All unlocks do is
give you an options advantage. If you
only have 80 Necro skills unlocked and someone needs a warrior for their group
you not going to be able to help them, but youd be able to play a fine necro. Some people were surprise because Anet made
the NF pvp edition available on day 1. So,
it was no longer just a means to catch up, but an option of another play style.

One last thing to keep in mind is in PvP your class isnt
finite. You not going to be The Warror
youre going to be Thinman. You will
be judged by what Builds you can play effectively not classes. If you look around there are probably only 20
or so common builds. That would suggest
you need no more then 160 skills unlocked.
If you become a good player even if you only ever PvPed with a Warrior,
youll get tells from people you group with before asking if you can play a
monk. That question doesnt just mean
do you have the skills, but are you proficient at using them.

Way too long

Most of you Guild Wars questions should be able to be
answered here

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Main_Page

Thinman · December 2006

Originally posted by Bent
Well that way it is now... PvP char have access to anything you've unlocked with your PvE chars, anything you bought with bathazar faction, or by buying a PvP edition of the game.

Before NF chars could change armor in PvP battles. This allowed PvE chars (that have a couple suit of armor) to switch to the best set. You could enter the match with lighting resistance armor and if you find yourself fighting fire users switch. You can't do this anymore. Secondly, with the new inscription system the came with NF and PvP char should be able to match any item a PvE char have. Though your PvP-only chars do have access to you vault so can readily use anything you collected.

Over and over PvP char were considered temporary. Make a blood necro; delete them and make a curse necro. This was much faster and cheaper then trying to turn a PvE blood necro into a curse necro (you have to buy new armor and runes). Once again NF changed this, because you can respawn your armor and runes on your PvP chars without having to delete them. It is clear Anet wants PvP-only to be an option. The people that would consider PvP-only edition obviously dont want to be disadvantaged. IMO Anet is doing everything that can to make them equal. So I guess my question is, could someone be just as powerful, without help from others, without making any RP characters at all? I've seen that you can buy skills and runes and such with balthazar faction, but what about items, and any bonuses that may be gotten along the RP campaign?

I suppose my question, put most clearly, is:

Would someone who made only a PvP character ultimately be just as powerful as someone who played both RP and PvP characters? Yes, though it would take a very long time if you tried to unlock everything with just Balthazar faction. But you could purchase the PvP-only Edition of the game. Which will give you access to all skills for that chapter. You would still need to unlock runes, heros, and inscriptions. Ultimately? Well, if someone spent 500 hours playing 50% PvE and 50% PvP fights someone that plays 100% PvP. My money would be on the PvPer. In all honestly you only need 8 skills unlocked and a couple of runes. Someone that have 900 skills unlocked and never PvP before will lose to someone with 20 skills unlocked that has PvPed for a week. I would guess 80-90% of the people you see in PvP areas are PvP-only chars. Im sure you have an idea how competitive online games can be. If PvE chars had an advantage those number would be much higher, and PvP-only people would be considered newbs However, PvP-only is the accepted. Closing. IMO there is no difference. Over the course of Guild Wars at certain times there were, BUT Anet was quick to equalize them. As an example there was a helm that reduced hex duration that could only be obtained from PvE. It became popular to use in PvP. Well now that helm is a selectable option for PvP-only chars. A more important question I think you need to ask yourself. Because I assuming youre trying to decide to buy the PvP edition instead of the regular is what kinda PvP you want to do for yourself? If you want to do high end PvP you likely going to need skills from all three chapters. And even then many of the decent guilds dont just let newbs in. And it can be quite frustrating trying to grow out of newbness. Thus, PvE can be a pleasant distraction. Youll also quickly find that Pick up Group PvP is overly frustrating as well, and most of the good PvP guilds dont PvP in every area 100% of the time. So, once again the PvE game can give you something to do while you want for you team to log on. A slight exception still exists for Ranger pets. All pets (bear, wolf, bird) have the same DPS, but some attack faster or slower then others. So if you cast a spell that made the pet do +15 extra damage every attack a faster attacking pet would do more damage then a slower attacking pet. The opposite is true for armor penetration. However, I know of no competitive match this ever became an issue. The main discussion about the PvP editions you referred to is that In the past it would take say ~300-500+hr of focused play to unlock all the skills for one chapter. Now for $40 you can unlock all of those skills instantly for PvP-only. It allowed new players to catch up unlock wise without having to play 1000+ hours. Though keep in mind you can only take 8 skills into battle with you. So you obviously dont need every skill unlocked. Some skills you will never use in PvP. But the option is there. All unlocks do is give you an options advantage. If you only have 80 Necro skills unlocked and someone needs a warrior for their group you not going to be able to help them, but youd be able to play a fine necro. Some people were surprise because Anet made the NF pvp edition available on day 1. So, it was no longer just a means to catch up, but an option of another play style. One last thing to keep in mind is in PvP your class isnt finite. You not going to be The Warror youre going to be Thinman. You will be judged by what Builds you can play effectively not classes. If you look around there are probably only 20 or so common builds. That would suggest you need no more then 160 skills unlocked. If you become a good player even if you only ever PvPed with a Warrior, youll get tells from people you group with before asking if you can play a monk. That question doesnt just mean do you have the skills, but are you proficient at using them. Way too long Most of you Guild Wars questions should be able to be answered here http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Main_Page

I very much appreciate the in-depth reply. You answered my question thoroughly, and then some.

I've gotten the NF PvE edition, and the Factions PvP edition.

I will probably ultimately get the Prophecies PvP, and maybe the Factions PvE, so I can do the Factions arenas.

Who knows, I might end up getting all 6. I just want to have every option available to me in PvP.. my plan is to ultimately get into a semi-serious, well organized PvP guild, and focus on PvP.

I've been pretty casual in MMOGs so far, but I've always been one of the best gamers in my groups of friends, so I'd like to see just how good I am, and take this game seriously. It definitely is the first PvP game that I've felt it's worthwhile to do so in.

Thanks again for your help, I appreciate it.

Bent · December 2006

You may want to kill the quote.

You should be able to play the faction arenas... I would think. By talking to a recruiter or diplomant in the temple of bathazar in the PvP islands. The reason I say this is many people think only PvE chars can play there but you can take your PvP-only chars there too.

But maybe not. Since the factions PVP-only pack likely only unlocks skills. Give it a try though.
Faction give you access to alliance battles, but you have to be guilded and you guild has to have a side picked
and acesss to competive missions Jade quarry and fort aspenwood.

Reguardless those places are often pretty empty.

I will say take you time finding a guild. It is easily to join a guild based on a ad in local chat. I'll just say decent PvP-guilds screen there players at bit better. And joining a less reputable guild can ruin the game for you.

I am not a member of this guild but http://www.xoohq.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9302 I know they have a PvP training program. There alliance is made of or serval regiments of themsevles. As in they have xoo-ha xoo-gvg xoo-pve. I have no idea how active they currently are. But it can be very hard breaking you way into a guld. Most require a certain rank or title. Which is hard to get because people don't tend to group without people with rank or title. The good PvP guilds IMO are the ones able to idenify teachable people that are willing to put in the time to learn and then stick around. Based on that I think xoo is a good choice.

I honestly don't really play currently. I'm very busy in life. But I follow the game. I found xoo when thinking I'd be about to come back and wanted to focus on PvP. However, my guild reconciled so I am sticking with them.

You can add bent oben to your friends list. As I said I am not currently playing really. But I should be more active around the holidays. And I do enjoy my PvP, so wouldn't mind a few matches together in the future.

Thinman · December 2006

Thanks again for the help, I've taken a look at the xoo guild, they look interesting, but I'm not yet at the level that they require to join (have not passed the prophecies campaign).

I will add you to my friends list. Hopefully by the holidays I will be in decent pvp shape. I may see you in game, thanks again.

Bent · December 2006

I assume the only reason they require prophocies is to ensure you have the skills unlocked- if you would be joining one of there PvP departments and you can impress the fact that you are serious about PvP you may be able to get in anyway. They also haven't update their application since NF came out.

As an example
2 expansions down the road it would be obsurd to require a new member to have completed prophocies. Requiring the skills, sure... but forcing people to complete the story... nah.

Otherwise I would suggest making friends in the team arenas. HA tends to go by ranks, don't have a rank you can only easily group with other rankless people. Outside of guilds "generally" all the experienced people group together and all the inexperienced people group together. So, you end up with the expereinced groups dominating the inexperienced groups. And the only way to gain Rank (experience) is to win.

It is easier to get groups in team arena and group are small enough so that if you are a good player it shows. Hopefully you met some people there that will be willing to let you in their HA groups and from there you'll be able to find yourself into a guild. If you really are serious about PvP you'll find very quickly you prefer to play with Guildies or friends only.

exanimo · December 2006

i was playing some elite mission with xoo on vent ...
err , i bit too elite but not if you know what i mean.
anyway xoo as like 1000 members , i sow once a meeting in lians arch , dist 1 was full of just xoo and still some in dist 2 trying to get in. lol

the pvp char can be as powerfull as the rp , but much cheper to make and remake with diferent setings.

now im not sure, maybe bent can help me on this , i didnt search info about it.
will lightbringer level increase of damage, work in pvp if we use a rp char for pvp ?

Bent · December 2006

Lightbringer is only damage vs demons (maybe even only NF demons - the ones that give you points for LB in the first place)... Unless the ghost at the being of HA are demons I don't see it making a different. The skills you unlock by being a lightbringer are PvE only.

exanimo · December 2006

Originally posted by Bent
Lightbringer is only damage vs demons (maybe even only NF demons - the ones that give you points for LB in the first place)... Unless the ghost at the being of HA are demons I don't see it making a different. The skills you unlock by being a lightbringer are PvE only.

thanks , that makes sence

but imagine if that damage worked in pvp , lol , the pvp comunity would go riot on anet office.

i think the pvp char creation system is very good and should stay as it is , balanced with rp chars.

some people pvp with their RP chars , i dont have a problem with that , but i think everyone should at least explore the pvp char creation to see why its much better.

im not talking about the unlock stuff system you chose , for that i think the best is to use both ways , pve and pvp. but when you go for action with what you have , i say totaly go pvp char.

Zerand · December 2006

About the pet thing: Bent said that some pet's attack faster, right? But they have worse armor at the same time. There are three types of pets, can't remember the names. One with fast attacks but bad armor, one with decent armor and decent attack speed, and one with great defense but slow attacks. They grow depending how much thaey take damge when they level up and stuff. You can see more in guild wiki about this stuff :P Can't remember it all.

Ivana · December 2006

About pets: there is difference in their evolution and types of dmg they are making. That is only for PvE pets, because PvP pet is Elder Wolf.

Evolution:
Hearty: -15% dmg/540 hp
Playful: -5% dmg/510 hp
Elder: normal dmg/480 hp
Aggressive: +5% dmg/450 hp
Dire: +15% dmg/420 hp

Types of dmg:
As I know, widows and lizards make piercing dmg, others make slashing dmg. Only bears have monster skill: Brutal Mauling. I wasn't reading about pets for a long time. Probably there are differences about factions and nightfall pets.

Akaraxle · December 2006

A short reply, since Bent pretty much covered it all:

PvE characters used to be superior to PvP ones, which could only choose 1 armor set and 2 weapon sets. Having a PvE warrior for GvG was almost mandatory for the number of different weapons you need: vampiric (life stealing), zealous (energy recovery), elemental (when hitting other warriors)... same goes for rangers, who usually need a crippling bow, poisoning bow, a longbow. Casters didn't have to be PvE, but they needed certain special items that weren't present in the PvP creation screen (e.g., negative energy sets).
Armor swapping gave a distinct advantage to just about everyone: warriors could switch to minor runes when they were on DP; monks could cast their Divine Boon with a superior Divine Favor rune, then switch to minor; elementalists could switch to superior Energy Storage when using Ether Prodigy.

Now armor swapping is disabled during a PvP match, and PvP-only characters can create (by opening a special menu via the J key) as many items as their inventory fits. I'll go as far as saying that PvP characters are now superior to PvE ones, because the latter require a relevant time investment to get all the items you might need. PvE toons have the only advantage of looking prettier than PvP ones, which are restricted to "standard" dumb skins for their gear.

Godliest · December 2006

Wall of text crits u for 20k.

You Die.

Zerand · December 2006

Originally posted by Godliest
Wall of text crits u for 20k. You Die.

Where? In my opinion everything here has been pretty well paragraphed.

Sephis · December 2006

Xen of Onslaught or [XoO] is one largest Organization in GW, maybe THE largest of them, If i Remember correctly they have 9 guilds with 60-10 in it, each guild for a purpose.

Xen of Europa

Xen of Onslaught LAdder.

Etc.

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PvP vs. RP characters - What am I missing?

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