Originally posted by -Rodriguez- Gee, if you guys want only the votes of the top 30% forum posters you maybe should call it "MMORPG.COMs elite forum warrior awards 2006" or something like that... Are you guys serious if you say that "the votes would be more objecitve if only me and my buddys could vote"? Sorry for sounding harsh but honestly! A vote is _never_ ever_ objctive, no matter how you twist and turn it. Even the "Editors choice awards" are subjective, all kind of votes are. If you dont belive me, please name the exact measurment you applied to weight the pros and cons of EVEs PvE and PvP against WoW.
You are taking this to an opposite extreme. Id say a fairer number would be top 90% of people. The other 10% are day 1 accounts or inactive accounts. To be more specific, a more strict filtering for voting should apply, something like, anyone who registered earlier then november 1 2006 AND (has an average postings of between 5 to 10 per month OR average log ins of 10-20 per months).
Which means if you are a new account ( its not more then one month old ) and you arent active at posting ( 5 -10 posts per month is very generous, dont you think) or at least you coul login once per 2-3 days. If you meet that criteria, you can vote. If not, sorry, be more active or login more often.
This will decrease spam-voting, now you actualy have to take care of your account, not a lot, just a bit, but still some effort is required for voting. Companies would have to anticipate voting and only the most devoted zealots would go through that in order to vote on a site they dont give a rats ass about (no pun MMORPG.COM). If someone doesnt care about mmorpg.com and they cant vote immediately for their fav game, i doubt most of them would go through al lthe trouble of doing it.
Trying to steer clear of the WoW vs Eve flame war, and thought I might offer some suggestions on improving the process for next year, for what they're worth.
I like the categories -- please, don't return to open voting. I like the nominations too. But it might be useful, to provide for each category, at least 4 choices. Even if the only the top two choices statistically relevant, from your nominations, there are many of us that were not here during the nomination phase, but are here for the actual voting part. Like many others, I was surprised to see WoW and Eve as the only two listed for many categories. I know I personally play a lot of other MMO's, and wouldn't have minded at least a *few* other choices, even if the nominations for them were statistically insignficant.
It might also be interesting to see, perhaps after the voting is complete, what percentage of nominations each title got for its category. For instance, in the Best PvE category, perhaps WoW got 70% of the votes, EvE got 20% of the vote (maybe there's a lot of diehard Eve Players frequenting the forums), and everything else combined for the last 10%. Putting WoW and Eve up their side by side makes it seem like they were equally represented. They weren't really, WoW was already a huge victor, but you want to have *something* to vote on.
I think it's also worth noting it's very hard to make a "Best of " end of year vote interesting in an industry that is so completely and utterly dominated by one player. The popularity of WoW over everything else in the market makes "Best Of" choices problematic at best. While it may not be all that statistically useful, I do think it would be a ton of fun and interesting to have a contest that basically said "Okay, EXCLUDING WoW, what do you think of were the Best Of for this year?"
2006 Has been a slow year for MMO's. The market is still dominated by WoW, and will be for some time, but players are coming off of that title, and starting to look elsewhere for that fix. So far, the faire we've been fed has been hardly up to the bar that's been set. RfO.. Auto Assault.. DDO.. these things promised much, but in the end simply didn't deliver.
Here's to hoping the industry is in better shape in 2007, and we have a more varied field of players next year.
Originally posted by grub5000 *** *This vote is a democracy, the whole point is to find out what the majority of the community thinks
*If eve wins then it's because more people voted for it, if your game doesn't win then perhaps you could get some of your friends to vote for it.
***
Well your post makes sense if its applied to everyone equaly. But I think what others were trying to say is if the voting is taken unfairly, then results can be very distoreted. What do I mean voting taken unfairly? Well, I find Eve's community to be a very strong and loyal one. So when there was a post on official Eve forum regarding voting here, a lot of people went to vote. With other games weaker communities, this wouldnt have as much of an effect, so there wouldnt be a lot of WoW lovers rushing to create an account here and voting for WoW and then forgetting about MMORPG.COM account. Its like asking an opinion about USA from Siria citizens... Im guessing 80%+ would say they hate USA.
Eve has an OK PvE, not too strong and not too weak. PvE was not the most important thing. PvP, player made economy and perhaps few other things is what Eve is famous for and is great at.
My 2 cents...I aggree to a certain degree with your comments, but that's the difference between Siria and US - Siria has Plutocracy (it is worse than that), US - Democracy. In Siria the "citizens" are obliged to say "We hate USA" or are just brainwashed to do so. Nobody brainwashed the EVE community to come here and to vote. Nobody offered them any incetive to vote. Nobody made them forcefully to vote. Do you follow me? I live in Bulgaria - a country in Eastern Europe which joins the European Community from 1st of Jan 2007. It used to be a totalitaran communist country just 17 years ago. Now we have democracy and free elections...So what? During the last elections only 35% of the people that have the right to vote, did it actually...Now, whose fault is this? The system? The politicians? No, the problem is with the community, the society...Don't blame the system, just because you don't like the results!
The fact that the EVE community is so strong in comparison with other communities is not a coincidence - it is a unique game and it has unique core community. I think the fans of the other games have the same rights and the same opportunities as the EVE fans - they have their fan sites, fan forums etc. What's the difference? They could come here and vote, of course, only if they are ready to take the extra mile...
*This vote is a democracy, the whole point is to find out what the majority of the community thinks
*If eve wins then it's because more people voted for it, if your game doesn't win then perhaps you could get some of your friends to vote for it.
***
Well your post makes sense if its applied to everyone equaly. But I think what others were trying to say is if the voting is taken unfairly, then results can be very distoreted. What do I mean voting taken unfairly? Well, I find Eve's community to be a very strong and loyal one. So when there was a post on official Eve forum regarding voting here, a lot of people went to vote. With other games weaker communities, this wouldnt have as much of an effect, so there wouldnt be a lot of WoW lovers rushing to create an account here and voting for WoW and then forgetting about MMORPG.COM account. Its like asking an opinion about USA from Siria citizens... Im guessing 80%+ would say they hate USA.
Eve has an OK PvE, not too strong and not too weak. PvE was not the most important thing. PvP, player made economy and perhaps few other things is what Eve is famous for and is great at.
My 2 cents...I aggree to a certain degree with your comments, but that's the difference between Siria and US - Siria has Plutocracy (it is worse than that), US - Democracy. In Siria the "citizens" are obliged to say "We hate USA" or are just brainwashed to do so. Nobody brainwashed the EVE community to come here and to vote. Nobody offered them any incetive to vote. Nobody made them forcefully to vote. Do you follow me? I live in Bulgaria - a country in Eastern Europe which joins the European Community from 1st of Jan 2007. It used to be a totalitaran communist country just 17 years ago. Now we have democracy and free elections...So what? During the last elections only 35% of the people that have the right to vote, did it actually...Now, whose fault is this? The system? The politicians? No, the problem is with the community, the society...Don't blame the system, just because you don't like the results!
The fact that the EVE community is so strong in comparison with other communities is not a coincidence - it is a unique game and it has unique core community. I think the fans of the other games have the same rights and the same opportunities as the EVE fans - they have their fan sites, fan forums etc. What's the difference? They could come here and vote, of course, only if they are ready to take the extra mile...
I agree. So far ive seen sort of 2 sides here, the one side says there should be more options to make the voting more diverse and reasonable ( with just 2 options the vote is very straightforward and limiting) up to the point where the last vote would be NONE or OTHER (if that option ever wins we KNOW something was wrong with the nominees). The other side basicaly says "well, the vote was cast, the crowd has spoken".
I think a compromise is in order, more options and make each vote count by putting some restrictions on who can vote (read my post above). I think that way our opinions would be better reflected and at the same time restricting outsider influence and limiting fraudulent votes(zero day accounts, accounts that are inactive, etc).
I would definitely like to see EQ2 for the PvE nomination, also GW, SoR and D&D, or any other top 3 or 4 MMOs that makes it, if not now, at east in the future. Discussions like these are very helpfull for our MMORPG.COM community and will keep the staff informed of our feelings.
Originally posted by skawn My only guess as to why EVE has the PvE vote is that most people don't consider crafting, minining, trading etc PvP because they don't involve blasting other players but EvE does have an extermely intricate economy.
Actually, alot of players consider trading and manufacturing to be PvP in EVE.
Originally posted by Celestian One game that deserves to be in the awards, the other a lame duck game that has a tiny player base that seems to focused on this website.
Hell why don't we have DAoC in the awards, they got as many players.
Use common sense mmorpg.com staff. If Hello Kitty Adventure Island was nominated by the majority would you have that also? Come on.
What do you not understand about READERS CHOICE awards?
And only a fool would think that something popular is instantly good or great. Pop culture is the perfect example. Look at some of the popular bands out right now. They're steaming piles of shit, in talent, personality, and everything else, they are simply marketed well, just like WoW. WoW is successful because they threw out every orginal idea they had when they realized they could turn it into Diablo 2's pointless grindfest, with monthly charges. Odds are you don't know that WoW was orginally made with one of the goals being an MMO that you could play casually and not be left in the dust. Considering one of the main developers for WoW is also the #1 or #2 all time no-life EQ grinder, it's to be expected. When you hire someone who's known for grinding shit more than anyone else in the history of MMOs, it's not that suprising to see they turn the game into a grind fest.
WoW is Britney Spears, used by millions of K-feds.
Use common sense troll, if a site is having awards based on what their viewers like, and they have alot of viewers from a small community, the fact that a small fraction of a percent of WoW's players come here, doesn't magically add +5 votes to each WoW fanboi's click.
Originally posted by Malthros Originally posted by Celestian One game that deserves to be in the awards, the other a lame duck game that has a tiny player base that seems to focused on this website.
Hell why don't we have DAoC in the awards, they got as many players.
Use common sense mmorpg.com staff. If Hello Kitty Adventure Island was nominated by the majority would you have that also? Come on.
What do you not understand about READERS CHOICE awards?
And only a fool would think that something popular is instantly good or great. Pop culture is the perfect example. Look at some of the popular bands out right now. They're steaming piles of shit, in talent, personality, and everything else, they are simply marketed well, just like WoW. WoW is successful because they threw out every orginal idea they had when they realized they could turn it into Diablo 2's pointless grindfest, with monthly charges. Odds are you don't know that WoW was orginally made with one of the goals being an MMO that you could play casually and not be left in the dust. Considering one of the main developers for WoW is also the #1 or #2 all time no-life EQ grinder, it's to be expected. When you hire someone who's known for grinding shit more than anyone else in the history of MMOs, it's not that suprising to see they turn the game into a grind fest.
WoW is Britney Spears, used by millions of K-feds.
Use common sense troll, if a site is having awards based on what their viewers like, and they have alot of viewers from a small community, the fact that a small fraction of a percent of WoW's players come here, doesn't magically add +5 votes to each WoW fanboi's click. That's all your opinion though. You may think they are "shit" as you put it but other people do like them. Who are you to pass judgement on what they like? Are you special? Are you some authority on music? Thought not, so basically you need to STFU. If that's his opinion on the the Awards. Then he is entitled to speak it.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
Id like to comment on the Eve PVE thing. Personally I did not vote for anyone in that catagory even though I am an eve player and voted it in the others. Why? I dont like eithers PVE. Simple as that. You poeple who cry "fanboy" may be right but you have to take into account the odd person who cannot, morally, vote for something they dont truelly think their game deserves. Ill give Eve Graphics, PVP, my favorite game, but the PVE isnt its primary focus. However, I would like to add that it can change. There has been increasing complexes and missions and I just love the new ones. So who knows, mayby next year ill vote for Eve for PVE. Cheers all, and remember "Always look on the bright side of Life"
PS - This is an opinino pole. If you want 'quality' poles, go look at game review sites, scientists, and statistical data to nail up on your board. What it comes down to is that poeple think their game deserves all the reward it can enjoy. To do this poeple may vote for what others might consider a 'false' or 'immoral' vote. However from others perspective it is the exact opposite.
It really does say something that a game with 1/50th the playerbase can have it's community outvote WoW... Not only do we just like the game, but we love the company! CCP is doing something right if, even after 3 YEARS, the game is still INCREASING in playerbase size - when I started playing about 15 months ago, normal online player count was between 10-15k at a time (on the same "shard" EVE ftw), now I RARELY see it drop below 20k, and a few days ago (Sunday, December 3rd) we broke a new record with 33,000 players online concurrently! All these people are bashing EVE, saying it takes no time to train stuff, or requires no effort, but you know what? if you don't PLAY and earn money, you can't do anything with those accumulated skillpoints. besides, skillpoints are no match for in-game time experience.
PhoenixHeart, Free Industries Union [FIU], EVE Fanatic
7 million WoW players, each in their own little worlds. 150,000 Eve Online subscribers, sharing one world.
Of course you'll get a more focused fanbase out of the latter! Also, CCP really does a fabulous job making the entire Eve experience a complete immersion. This is a Readers' Awards...and all I ever saw from CCP was a couple of lines and a link which said, the awards voting is underway. However I got here (the first time), I stayed to see what the entire genre is doing and Eve continues to redefine the genre, so it will dominate in it.
First, let me say that I don't think any mmorpg has gone nearly far enough in pve or pvp...but it's exciting to see the progress year after year. I've been hooked on Eve for 1 1/2 years now and I will probably still be 1 1/2 years from now!
PvP/PvE: I don't actually pvp much. I am not a grinder and the latter half of this year got a bit grinding in the PvE area...but, I've always been interested in the PvE, in missioning and corporation building, manufacturing and exploration and now salvaging (mining makes me crazy).
CCP and the subscribers have combined to build a rich back story and there is such potential for blossoming of the PvE areas...and I think the future Kali releases will actually blur the line between PvP and PvE forever...something that's already started, as shown by above comments...what is pvp and what is pve in Eve?
The drawback of lvl 4 missions to just a few repetitive kills and the total nerf of courier missions was a conscious decision to allow for rebuilding the underlying system...but it's been a trial on our patience...hopefully coming to an end as new content is sneaking back in again...which makes things less a grind and more a constantly developing pve experience. When factional warfare is released, I think the pvp/pve line will disappear and CCP will have (again) redefined the genre!
This is my first time ever to this site. I play Guildwars, EVE, and am a huge Warhammer fan.
I got a link to this vote at Warhammer Alliance, so I came to make a vote. I was thrilled to see so many EVE options, but saddened that it was so often paired off against WoW.
Just the same, that being the case, I voted for EVE for PvE and just about everything else (WAR for most anticipated though!) - because usually the only other options were WoW and I disliked just about everything in that game *particularly* the PvE - worst EVER.
EVE PvE may not be the best I can imagine, but it's one hell of a lot better than the never-ending drudgery that is WoW PvE.. which is sadly all that game has.
Anyways, so I voted for EVEs. 100x better in PvE let alone everything else - nobody else can hold a candle to it at the moment (omitting Guildwars PvP and Guildwars appearance of course!)
I had to go with EvE, having played that, WoW, DDO, and some EQ2.
WoW was fun for about 1 month, other than that, there is nowhere to go in that game. No matter what its all the same.
EvE, I get bored to death of the PvE, but I get bored of PvE in any game, it requires no real thought. The PvP, the PLAYER driven stories, the economics, all make it the best gaming experience I've ever had.
Hell, anytime you have alliances of 2000+ players fighting eachother, between the battles, the subterfuge, the forum community, the PR, the spin. It all creates a living breathing world that never gets boring.
Most anticipated I sent to WAR, because I loved DAOC for so long, and I love Warhammer as well.
Now to get back to plotting to take over some solarsystems and plant my flag in lawless space again.
Damn you for making me vote for WoW in the PvE category! *shakes fist*
Seriously, I think EvE is an amazing game, but PvE?! I wish people would stop voting blindly for "their" game. WoWs PvE isn't the best PvE game by a longshot (IMO) but certainly better than EvE..
To the nazis who try to censor votes so that only forum spammers get to vote in the categories: 1) internet has no borders so you cant compare this site to a country and voting to the elections in a country. The object of the voting here is mmorpgs, not say mmorop.com staff and CEO 2) if you spam forums all day it means you enjoy this more than playing your favourite MMORPG (so i would like to see a new game in all categories : Forum spam MMORPG , for these frustrated types) 3) I voted for eve. Stuff it !
I've been an MMORPG.com reader long before I was an EVE player- I am usually a lurker and only created this account to vote (I did have an account long ago when I first started reading the site, but I can't for the life of me remember the details; pretty sure it was on my old defunct email address too). Does this mean that I can't vote, because I'm not a forum spammer? I thought it was "Reader's Choice" not "Forum Whore's Choice".
The system could do with refining next year, though- how EVE and WoW are considerd best PvE is beyond me- EVEs PvE is pretty lacklustre, and I refuse to believe WoWs tedium is *the best* of all out there.
How about next year something like this- 2 options are nominated by a vote, as this year, while another 1 (or 2) are chosen by the editors as their top favourites. That way it atleast ensures that the actual *best* in category (as far as the site's editors are concerned, anyway) get to the finals.
I mean even in the graphics category- EVE still gives me warm fuzzy feelings and is deffinatly better than WoW or EQ2, but I honestly doubt it really is the best graphics of any MMO on the market. Even if the game itself is crap, if its graphics are good it should be a nominee for graphics................
Originally posted by Sombrerino To the nazis who try to censor votes so that only forum spammers get to vote in the categories: 1) internet has no borders so you cant compare this site to a country and voting to the elections in a country. The object of the voting here is mmorpgs, not say mmorop.com staff and CEO 2) if you spam forums all day it means you enjoy this more than playing your favourite MMORPG (so i would like to see a new game in all categories : Forum spam MMORPG , for these frustrated types) 3) I voted for eve. Stuff it !
To the nazis whod do anything to raise their fav game rating:
stop making a new account, voting for your fav game... making a new account, registering, voting... and so on so on. How does THAT reflect community opinion?
Originally posted by Patch8686 I've been an MMORPG.com reader long before I was an EVE player- I am usually a lurker and only created this account to vote (I did have an account long ago when I first started reading the site, but I can't for the life of me remember the details; pretty sure it was on my old defunct email address too). Does this mean that I can't vote, because I'm not a forum spammer? I thought it was "Reader's Choice" not "Forum Whore's Choice".
It would be great if people were not abusing the free registration process. I mean, whos to stop botters making hundreds of accounts, casting a vote and completely messing up voting results? There are ways to make it harder for those folks and at the same time not to put too many restrictions on lurkers who just like to read but never post. One of the things that could of been implemented is to track your average number of logins. If you login on average at least once per 2 days then you get to vote.
Im not sure how the voting works right now. Does anyone get to vote? Or just registered accounts? If anyone gets to vote without the need to register then the vote iresult is pretty much pointless becuase the error margin can be huge! Anyone with dynamic IP can vote as much as they can, and cookies can be deleted.
The point of voting is to produce results that matter, not just any results.
The system could do with refining next year, though- how EVE and WoW are considerd best PvE is beyond me- EVEs PvE is pretty lacklustre, and I refuse to believe WoWs tedium is *the best* of all out there.
How about next year something like this- 2 options are nominated by a vote, as this year, while another 1 (or 2) are chosen by the editors as their top favourites. That way it atleast ensures that the actual *best* in category (as far as the site's editors are concerned, anyway) get to the finals. I agree, more options (including NONE OF THE ABOVE) would reflect community opinions much clearer.
I mean even in the graphics category- EVE still gives me warm fuzzy feelings and is deffinatly better than WoW or EQ2, but I honestly doubt it really is the best graphics of any MMO on the market. Even if the game itself is crap, if its graphics are good it should be a nominee for graphics................
Wasnt Eve nominated for best graphics? Im almost 100% sure I voted Eve for best graphics yesterday... Unless im gone crazy or somethin...
Originally posted by jimmyman99 Originally posted by Sombrerino To the nazis who try to censor votes so that only forum spammers get to vote in the categories: 1) internet has no borders so you cant compare this site to a country and voting to the elections in a country. The object of the voting here is mmorpgs, not say mmorop.com staff and CEO 2) if you spam forums all day it means you enjoy this more than playing your favourite MMORPG (so i would like to see a new game in all categories : Forum spam MMORPG , for these frustrated types) 3) I voted for eve. Stuff it !
To the nazis whod do anything to raise their fav game rating: stop making a new account, voting for your fav game... making a new account, registering, voting... and so on so on. How does THAT reflect community opinion? you make ridiculous assumptions so you are probably in the left-side tail of the gaussian distribution
1) i only voted once and i'm pretty sure they check the IP of the voters too 2) i dont tell you to stop doing anything , you dont tell me to stop either ok 3) if your assumption were true, theres nothing stopping the WoW hardcore fans from doing the same kind of abuse (actually i also have an active WoW subscription but i prefer playing eve)
go sell that horse somewhere else cuz im not buying it
I guess one's opinion of PvE depends on what they consider PvE to be...
I voted Eve over WoW in PvE just because of the economic system, the skill system, and the 'crafting' system... All Player (me) vs. Environment (game) elements to me, so that's how I voted.
WoW has PvE - a really bad A.I. grindfest punctuated by the occasional really bad PvP experience.
Lets all face it, the reason WoW is so successful is because it runs well on 5.5 million chinese Pentium III machines, which upped the user count and made the game a 'must have' because obviously everyone else was playing it.
And while I don my Nomex suit, I'll mention that I played WoW for around two years, and a year of that was pretty hardcore - so hardcore I trekked across the US to go to BlizzCon with the rest of the guild to play in the tournaments... But ultimately I had more fun getting to 60 than I ever did at 60, and once I'd run the gamut from 1 to 60 on both sides of the faction fence the love affair was over.
Originally posted by Roin That's all your opinion though. You may think they are "shit" as you put it but other people do like them. Who are you to pass judgement on what they like? Are you special? Are you some authority on music? Thought not, so basically you need to STFU. If that's his opinion on the the Awards. Then he is entitled to speak it.
Haha omg I just love people that say "He is entitled for his oppinion so STFU !!!!!11". Thats so sickening, its hard to describe it with words.
Originally posted by jimmyman99 Originally posted by Patch8686 I've been an MMORPG.com reader long before I was an EVE player- I am usually a lurker and only created this account to vote (I did have an account long ago when I first started reading the site, but I can't for the life of me remember the details; pretty sure it was on my old defunct email address too). Does this mean that I can't vote, because I'm not a forum spammer? I thought it was "Reader's Choice" not "Forum Whore's Choice".
It would be great if people were not abusing the free registration process. I mean, whos to stop botters making hundreds of accounts, casting a vote and completely messing up voting results? There are ways to make it harder for those folks and at the same time not to put too many restrictions on lurkers who just like to read but never post. One of the things that could of been implemented is to track your average number of logins. If you login on average at least once per 2 days then you get to vote.
Im not sure how the voting works right now. Does anyone get to vote? Or just registered accounts? If anyone gets to vote without the need to register then the vote iresult is pretty much pointless becuase the error margin can be huge! Anyone with dynamic IP can vote as much as they can, and cookies can be deleted. The point of voting is to produce results that matter, not just any results. The system could do with refining next year, though- how EVE and WoW are considerd best PvE is beyond me- EVEs PvE is pretty lacklustre, and I refuse to believe WoWs tedium is *the best* of all out there.
How about next year something like this- 2 options are nominated by a vote, as this year, while another 1 (or 2) are chosen by the editors as their top favourites. That way it atleast ensures that the actual *best* in category (as far as the site's editors are concerned, anyway) get to the finals. I agree, more options (including NONE OF THE ABOVE) would reflect community opinions much clearer. I mean even in the graphics category- EVE still gives me warm fuzzy feelings and is deffinatly better than WoW or EQ2, but I honestly doubt it really is the best graphics of any MMO on the market. Even if the game itself is crap, if its graphics are good it should be a nominee for graphics................ Wasnt Eve nominated for best graphics? Im almost 100% sure I voted Eve for best graphics yesterday... Unless im gone crazy or somethin...
I'm sorry but I still don't buy the 'people are creating a hojillion new accounts to pad ratings' BS. If that were the case then EVE would have 10's of thousands of votes more than WoW to keep top spot. That is just not the case.
Originally posted by Dark_Shikari Originally posted by PB&J EVE is one of the finalists for PvE? Give me a break. EVE's PvE is absoultey horrible. Your awards are being completely trashed by a link on the EVE forums telling their fans to come over here and vote.
Have you not played EVE since 2003?
Today, it has hundreds of complexes (more than WoW), an entire exploration system where you can find your own "raids", and four massive COSMOS constellations, plus hundreds of missions.
World of Warcraft has about, uh... 4 quests that are repeated game-wide with different names madlibbed into them? Come on, even I've played to level 60 on World of Warcraft and you'd have to be a liar to say that the PvE in that game is remotely interesting.
People think World of Warcraft has good PvE because most MMORPGs have such bad PvE. Quite honestly, most MMORPGs are pretty damn bad. World of Warcraft, as bad as it is, is a breath of fresh air by comparison. EVE Online, on the other hand, is assumed to have bad PvE for two reasons:
1. The huge number of dumbasses who have only played the game for 5 minutes or only played it right after release, and thus from that experience they think the game has no PvE.
2. People assume that no game can possibly be good at both PvE or PvP, and since EVE's PvP is utterly badass, they assume by logic that the PvE must therefore be miserable.
It aint perfect, and by my standards the PvE isn't that great, but compared to what's out there its damn good. Better than World of Warcraft? Certainly. But that isn't saying much.
Here's an example quote from another forum:
I stayed with WoW only as long as I did for the pvp. For some reason my idea of the perfect PvE isn't spending 18 hours a day playing so I can fight through the same instance for 3 months so I can get better gear aaaaand go do the same thing at the next one!11 Huzzah for repetition! /signed
Originally posted by Sombrerino Originally posted by jimmyman99 Originally posted by Sombrerino To the nazis who try to censor votes so that only forum spammers get to vote in the categories: 1) internet has no borders so you cant compare this site to a country and voting to the elections in a country. The object of the voting here is mmorpgs, not say mmorop.com staff and CEO 2) if you spam forums all day it means you enjoy this more than playing your favourite MMORPG (so i would like to see a new game in all categories : Forum spam MMORPG , for these frustrated types) 3) I voted for eve. Stuff it !
To the nazis whod do anything to raise their fav game rating:
stop making a new account, voting for your fav game... making a new account, registering, voting... and so on so on. How does THAT reflect community opinion? you make ridiculous assumptions so you are probably in the left-side tail of the gaussian distribution
1) i only voted once and i'm pretty sure they check the IP of the voters too 2) i dont tell you to stop doing anything , you dont tell me to stop either ok 3) if your assumption were true, theres nothing stopping the WoW hardcore fans from doing the same kind of abuse (actually i also have an active WoW subscription but i prefer playing eve)
go sell that horse somewhere else cuz im not buying it
PS this sure looks like a new account yeah I made a radical assumtion just like you made yours. I quote your first post "To the nazis who try to censor votes so that only forum spammers get to vote in the categories:"
That is gross over-generalization. I was sort of replying in that same spirit.
1) I wasnt realy claiming u did. But some people might do it.
2) Not telling you to stop doing anything, bro.
3) Yup, thats why I was suggesting to have some limitations on who can vote, but nothing as radical as top 30% posters as your post would suggest.
Just because you don't like eve PvE doesn't mean that there aren't thousands of people who do... more than half of the players of EVE online don't ever go into 0.0 (pvp area). I know people who think mining is relaxing, who find mission running enjoyable, and who really, really have a good time when they get a gang of 20 T1 frigs and plow out some level 3 missions together.
just because some of you were unable to find things that make PvE in eve fun, doesn't mean that a huge player base hasn't.
Comments
are taking this to an opposite extreme. Id say a fairer number would be
top 90% of people. The other 10% are day 1 accounts or inactive
accounts. To be more specific, a more strict filtering for voting
should apply, something like, anyone who registered earlier then
november 1 2006 AND (has an average postings of between 5 to 10 per
month OR average log ins of 10-20 per months).
Which means if you are a new account ( its not more then one month old
) and you arent active at posting ( 5 -10 posts per month is very
generous, dont you think) or at least you coul login once per 2-3 days.
If you meet that criteria, you can vote. If not, sorry, be more active
or login more often.
This will decrease spam-voting, now you actualy have to take care of
your account, not a lot, just a bit, but still some effort is required
for voting. Companies would have to anticipate voting and only the most
devoted zealots would go through that in order to vote on a site they
dont give a rats ass about (no pun MMORPG.COM). If someone doesnt care
about mmorpg.com and they cant vote immediately for their fav game, i
doubt most of them would go through al lthe trouble of doing it.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Trying to steer clear of the WoW vs Eve flame war, and thought I might offer some suggestions on improving the process for next year, for what they're worth.
I like the categories -- please, don't return to open voting. I like the nominations too. But it might be useful, to provide for each category, at least 4 choices. Even if the only the top two choices statistically relevant, from your nominations, there are many of us that were not here during the nomination phase, but are here for the actual voting part. Like many others, I was surprised to see WoW and Eve as the only two listed for many categories. I know I personally play a lot of other MMO's, and wouldn't have minded at least a *few* other choices, even if the nominations for them were statistically insignficant.
It might also be interesting to see, perhaps after the voting is complete, what percentage of nominations each title got for its category. For instance, in the Best PvE category, perhaps WoW got 70% of the votes, EvE got 20% of the vote (maybe there's a lot of diehard Eve Players frequenting the forums), and everything else combined for the last 10%. Putting WoW and Eve up their side by side makes it seem like they were equally represented. They weren't really, WoW was already a huge victor, but you want to have *something* to vote on.
I think it's also worth noting it's very hard to make a "Best of " end of year vote interesting in an industry that is so completely and utterly dominated by one player. The popularity of WoW over everything else in the market makes "Best Of" choices problematic at best. While it may not be all that statistically useful, I do think it would be a ton of fun and interesting to have a contest that basically said "Okay, EXCLUDING WoW, what do you think of were the Best Of for this year?"
2006 Has been a slow year for MMO's. The market is still dominated by WoW, and will be for some time, but players are coming off of that title, and starting to look elsewhere for that fix. So far, the faire we've been fed has been hardly up to the bar that's been set. RfO.. Auto Assault.. DDO.. these things promised much, but in the end simply didn't deliver.
Here's to hoping the industry is in better shape in 2007, and we have a more varied field of players next year.
Dlangar
blog: http://ofcourseillplayit.com
Eve has an OK PvE, not too strong and not too weak. PvE was not the most important thing. PvP, player made economy and perhaps few other things is what Eve is famous for and is great at.
My 2 cents...I aggree to a certain degree with your comments, but that's the difference between Siria and US - Siria has Plutocracy (it is worse than that), US - Democracy. In Siria the "citizens" are obliged to say "We hate USA" or are just brainwashed to do so. Nobody brainwashed the EVE community to come here and to vote. Nobody offered them any incetive to vote. Nobody made them forcefully to vote. Do you follow me? I live in Bulgaria - a country in Eastern Europe which joins the European Community from 1st of Jan 2007. It used to be a totalitaran communist country just 17 years ago. Now we have democracy and free elections...So what? During the last elections only 35% of the people that have the right to vote, did it actually...Now, whose fault is this? The system? The politicians? No, the problem is with the community, the society...Don't blame the system, just because you don't like the results!
The fact that the EVE community is so strong in comparison with other communities is not a coincidence - it is a unique game and it has unique core community. I think the fans of the other games have the same rights and the same opportunities as the EVE fans - they have their fan sites, fan forums etc. What's the difference? They could come here and vote, of course, only if they are ready to take the extra mile...
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
What do you not understand about READERS CHOICE awards?
And only a fool would think that something popular is instantly good or great. Pop culture is the perfect example. Look at some of the popular bands out right now. They're steaming piles of shit, in talent, personality, and everything else, they are simply marketed well, just like WoW. WoW is successful because they threw out every orginal idea they had when they realized they could turn it into Diablo 2's pointless grindfest, with monthly charges. Odds are you don't know that WoW was orginally made with one of the goals being an MMO that you could play casually and not be left in the dust. Considering one of the main developers for WoW is also the #1 or #2 all time no-life EQ grinder, it's to be expected. When you hire someone who's known for grinding shit more than anyone else in the history of MMOs, it's not that suprising to see they turn the game into a grind fest.
WoW is Britney Spears, used by millions of K-feds.
Use common sense troll, if a site is having awards based on what their viewers like, and they have alot of viewers from a small community, the fact that a small fraction of a percent of WoW's players come here, doesn't magically add +5 votes to each WoW fanboi's click.
And only a fool would think that something popular is instantly good or great. Pop culture is the perfect example. Look at some of the popular bands out right now. They're steaming piles of shit, in talent, personality, and everything else, they are simply marketed well, just like WoW. WoW is successful because they threw out every orginal idea they had when they realized they could turn it into Diablo 2's pointless grindfest, with monthly charges. Odds are you don't know that WoW was orginally made with one of the goals being an MMO that you could play casually and not be left in the dust. Considering one of the main developers for WoW is also the #1 or #2 all time no-life EQ grinder, it's to be expected. When you hire someone who's known for grinding shit more than anyone else in the history of MMOs, it's not that suprising to see they turn the game into a grind fest.
WoW is Britney Spears, used by millions of K-feds.
Use common sense troll, if a site is having awards based on what their viewers like, and they have alot of viewers from a small community, the fact that a small fraction of a percent of WoW's players come here, doesn't magically add +5 votes to each WoW fanboi's click.
That's all your opinion though. You may think they are "shit" as you put it but other people do like them. Who are you to pass judgement on what they like? Are you special? Are you some authority on music? Thought not, so basically you need to STFU. If that's his opinion on the the Awards. Then he is entitled to speak it.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
Id like to comment on the Eve PVE thing. Personally I did not vote for anyone in that catagory even though I am an eve player and voted it in the others. Why? I dont like eithers PVE. Simple as that. You poeple who cry "fanboy" may be right but you have to take into account the odd person who cannot, morally, vote for something they dont truelly think their game deserves. Ill give Eve Graphics, PVP, my favorite game, but the PVE isnt its primary focus. However, I would like to add that it can change. There has been increasing complexes and missions and I just love the new ones. So who knows, mayby next year ill vote for Eve for PVE. Cheers all, and remember "Always look on the bright side of Life"
PS - This is an opinino pole. If you want 'quality' poles, go look at game review sites, scientists, and statistical data to nail up on your board. What it comes down to is that poeple think their game deserves all the reward it can enjoy. To do this poeple may vote for what others might consider a 'false' or 'immoral' vote. However from others perspective it is the exact opposite.
It really does say something that a game with 1/50th the playerbase can have it's community outvote WoW... Not only do we just like the game, but we love the company! CCP is doing something right if, even after 3 YEARS, the game is still INCREASING in playerbase size - when I started playing about 15 months ago, normal online player count was between 10-15k at a time (on the same "shard" EVE ftw), now I RARELY see it drop below 20k, and a few days ago (Sunday, December 3rd) we broke a new record with 33,000 players online concurrently! All these people are bashing EVE, saying it takes no time to train stuff, or requires no effort, but you know what? if you don't PLAY and earn money, you can't do anything with those accumulated skillpoints. besides, skillpoints are no match for in-game time experience.
PhoenixHeart, Free Industries Union [FIU], EVE Fanatic
7 million WoW players, each in their own little worlds. 150,000 Eve Online subscribers, sharing one world.
Of course you'll get a more focused fanbase out of the latter! Also, CCP really does a fabulous job making the entire Eve experience a complete immersion. This is a Readers' Awards...and all I ever saw from CCP was a couple of lines and a link which said, the awards voting is underway. However I got here (the first time), I stayed to see what the entire genre is doing and Eve continues to redefine the genre, so it will dominate in it.
First, let me say that I don't think any mmorpg has gone nearly far enough in pve or pvp...but it's exciting to see the progress year after year. I've been hooked on Eve for 1 1/2 years now and I will probably still be 1 1/2 years from now!
PvP/PvE: I don't actually pvp much. I am not a grinder and the latter half of this year got a bit grinding in the PvE area...but, I've always been interested in the PvE, in missioning and corporation building, manufacturing and exploration and now salvaging (mining makes me crazy).
CCP and the subscribers have combined to build a rich back story and there is such potential for blossoming of the PvE areas...and I think the future Kali releases will actually blur the line between PvP and PvE forever...something that's already started, as shown by above comments...what is pvp and what is pve in Eve?
The drawback of lvl 4 missions to just a few repetitive kills and the total nerf of courier missions was a conscious decision to allow for rebuilding the underlying system...but it's been a trial on our patience...hopefully coming to an end as new content is sneaking back in again...which makes things less a grind and more a constantly developing pve experience. When factional warfare is released, I think the pvp/pve line will disappear and CCP will have (again) redefined the genre!
Cheers!
MilneCat
aka Etienne Merten, Prior, The Sohei Brotherhood
==================
This IS my signature!
Well...
This is my first time ever to this site. I play Guildwars, EVE, and am a huge Warhammer fan.
I got a link to this vote at Warhammer Alliance, so I came to make a
vote. I was thrilled to see so many EVE options, but saddened
that it was so often paired off against WoW.
Just the same,
that being the case, I voted for EVE for PvE and just about everything
else (WAR for most anticipated though!) - because usually the only
other options were WoW and I disliked just about everything in that
game *particularly* the PvE - worst EVER.
EVE PvE may not be the best I can imagine, but it's one hell of a lot
better than the never-ending drudgery that is WoW PvE.. which is sadly
all that game has.
Anyways, so I voted for EVEs. 100x better in PvE let alone
everything else - nobody else can hold a candle to it at the moment
(omitting Guildwars PvP and Guildwars appearance of course!)
WoW was fun for about 1 month, other than that, there is nowhere to go in that game. No matter what its all the same.
EvE, I get bored to death of the PvE, but I get bored of PvE in any game, it requires no real thought. The PvP, the PLAYER driven stories, the economics, all make it the best gaming experience I've ever had.
Hell, anytime you have alliances of 2000+ players fighting eachother, between the battles, the subterfuge, the forum community, the PR, the spin. It all creates a living breathing world that never gets boring.
Most anticipated I sent to WAR, because I loved DAOC for so long, and I love Warhammer as well.
Now to get back to plotting to take over some solarsystems and plant my flag in lawless space again.
Seriously, I think EvE is an amazing game, but PvE?! I wish people would stop voting blindly for "their" game. WoWs PvE isn't the best PvE game by a longshot (IMO) but certainly better than EvE..
1) internet has no borders so you cant compare this site to a country and voting to the elections in a country. The object of the voting here is mmorpgs, not say mmorop.com staff and CEO
2) if you spam forums all day it means you enjoy this more than playing your favourite MMORPG (so i would like to see a new game in all categories : Forum spam MMORPG , for these frustrated types)
3) I voted for eve. Stuff it !
The system could do with refining next year, though- how EVE and WoW are considerd best PvE is beyond me- EVEs PvE is pretty lacklustre, and I refuse to believe WoWs tedium is *the best* of all out there.
How about next year something like this- 2 options are nominated by a vote, as this year, while another 1 (or 2) are chosen by the editors as their top favourites. That way it atleast ensures that the actual *best* in category (as far as the site's editors are concerned, anyway) get to the finals.
I mean even in the graphics category- EVE still gives me warm fuzzy feelings and is deffinatly better than WoW or EQ2, but I honestly doubt it really is the best graphics of any MMO on the market. Even if the game itself is crap, if its graphics are good it should be a nominee for graphics................
stop making a new account, voting for your fav game... making a new
account, registering, voting... and so on so on. How does THAT reflect
community opinion?
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
stop making a new account, voting for your fav game... making a new account, registering, voting... and so on so on. How does THAT reflect community opinion?
you make ridiculous assumptions so you are probably in the left-side tail of the gaussian distribution
1) i only voted once and i'm pretty sure they check the IP of the voters too
2) i dont tell you to stop doing anything , you dont tell me to stop either ok
3) if your assumption were true, theres nothing stopping the WoW hardcore fans from doing the same kind of abuse (actually i also have an active WoW subscription but i prefer playing eve)
go sell that horse somewhere else cuz im not buying it
PS this sure looks like a new account yeah
I guess one's opinion of PvE depends on what they consider PvE to be...
I voted Eve over WoW in PvE just because of the economic system, the skill system, and the 'crafting' system... All Player (me) vs. Environment (game) elements to me, so that's how I voted.
WoW has PvE - a really bad A.I. grindfest punctuated by the occasional really bad PvP experience.
Lets all face it, the reason WoW is so successful is because it runs well on 5.5 million chinese Pentium III machines, which upped the user count and made the game a 'must have' because obviously everyone else was playing it.
And while I don my Nomex suit, I'll mention that I played WoW for around two years, and a year of that was pretty hardcore - so hardcore I trekked across the US to go to BlizzCon with the rest of the guild to play in the tournaments... But ultimately I had more fun getting to 60 than I ever did at 60, and once I'd run the gamut from 1 to 60 on both sides of the faction fence the love affair was over.
Sorry.
Haha omg I just love people that say "He is entitled for his oppinion so STFU !!!!!11". Thats so sickening, its hard to describe it with words.
I'm
sorry but I still don't buy the 'people are creating a hojillion new
accounts to pad ratings' BS. If that were the case then EVE would have
10's of thousands of votes more than WoW to keep top spot. That is just
not the case.
Today, it has hundreds of complexes (more than WoW), an entire exploration system where you can find your own "raids", and four massive COSMOS constellations, plus hundreds of missions.
World of Warcraft has about, uh... 4 quests that are repeated game-wide with different names madlibbed into them? Come on, even I've played to level 60 on World of Warcraft and you'd have to be a liar to say that the PvE in that game is remotely interesting.
People think World of Warcraft has good PvE because most MMORPGs have such bad PvE. Quite honestly, most MMORPGs are pretty damn bad. World of Warcraft, as bad as it is, is a breath of fresh air by comparison. EVE Online, on the other hand, is assumed to have bad PvE for two reasons:
1. The huge number of dumbasses who have only played the game for 5 minutes or only played it right after release, and thus from that experience they think the game has no PvE.
2. People assume that no game can possibly be good at both PvE or PvP, and since EVE's PvP is utterly badass, they assume by logic that the PvE must therefore be miserable.
It aint perfect, and by my standards the PvE isn't that great, but compared to what's out there its damn good. Better than World of Warcraft? Certainly. But that isn't saying much.
Here's an example quote from another forum:
I stayed with WoW only as long as I did for the pvp. For some reason my idea of the perfect PvE isn't spending 18 hours a day playing so I can fight through the same instance for 3 months so I can get better gear aaaaand go do the same thing at the next one!11 Huzzah for repetition!
/signed
Knowledge is Power!
stop making a new account, voting for your fav game... making a new
account, registering, voting... and so on so on. How does THAT reflect
community opinion?
you make ridiculous assumptions so you are probably in the left-side tail of the gaussian distribution
1) i only voted once and i'm pretty sure they check the IP of the voters too
2) i dont tell you to stop doing anything , you dont tell me to stop either ok
3)
if your assumption were true, theres nothing stopping the WoW hardcore
fans from doing the same kind of abuse (actually i also have an active
WoW subscription but i prefer playing eve)
go sell that horse somewhere else cuz im not buying it
PS this sure looks like a new account yeah
I made a radical assumtion just like you made yours. I quote your first post "To the nazis who try to censor votes so that only forum spammers get to vote in the categories:"
That is gross over-generalization. I was sort of replying in that same spirit.
1) I wasnt realy claiming u did. But some people might do it.
2) Not telling you to stop doing anything, bro.
3) Yup, thats why I was suggesting to have some limitations on who can
vote, but nothing as radical as top 30% posters as your post would
suggest.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Just because you don't like eve PvE doesn't mean that there aren't thousands of people who do... more than half of the players of EVE online don't ever go into 0.0 (pvp area). I know people who think mining is relaxing, who find mission running enjoyable, and who really, really have a good time when they get a gang of 20 T1 frigs and plow out some level 3 missions together.
just because some of you were unable to find things that make PvE in eve fun, doesn't mean that a huge player base hasn't.