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How can i strategicaly move my ship in combat
Rattrap
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,599
Hey guys, i am new in this so hang with me 
I am playing minmatar -
So i figured -> fast ship -> projectile turret -> long range fighting -> me wins 
the rats
My lowly Howitzer turret has optimal range of 13km , but i decided that is not enough , why getting hit?
So i put the my range to 17km - that is my ship tracking limit.
Ok fine...
So there is 3 clusters of rats , 8-10 in each - if i target one rat and put my ship on orbit - BAD IDEA!
cause i am bound to orbit right into laps of another rats cluster...
Hmm
Keep distance better!
Now that works just fine - except ! I can not control in which direction my ship moves. I use tactical display (nice job ripping ELITE radar display .. hehe) and i would like my ship to move in cetrain direction that puts it as further from all rat clusters as possible.
But i can not control it.
Even not manually , i dont think there is a way to command the ship to move to exact point , or direction ?
OR IS THERE A WAY ???
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Comments
Frigates are no long range ships. They are made to be fast, fast means you get up close and personal with a MWD or Afterburner as fast as possible and oribit them at the minimum range you possibly can with your weapons.
Frigates are designed to be small, hard to hit, close range vessels... Not sniper boats. That's what destroyers are for. Their size makes them hard to hit from the bigger ships, as well as oribiting only increases that, if you get close enough you get under their guns and don't even get hit at all.
Hope this helps.
A Work in Progress.
Add Me
you want to move, then double click space where you want to move and your ship will start flying in that direction.
Best you use Auto cannons and an AB and orbit the rats at your optimal. If your armour/cap is low then break off and warp to a gate, then re-engage.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
If you put your ship to keep distances to X the direction your ship flies will be determined by your targets direction. There is no manual way to set direction you will be flying in and use keep distance command, if you want more control go manual like mentioned above.
Now I am sure you have read stuff on turrets in case you have not make sure you read turret guide on EVE-Online site. It talks about tracking, distance, signature radius, transverse velocity, etc.
Not smart
I fly frigate because this is what i can afford right now , not out of preference.
Still shooting rats outside from their range is far smarter than getting in midst of 10 or more , and shooting them from close - especially if you orbit - you are bound always to be in guns range of few of them ... not smart
And double clicking in space ?!
WTF! Thats all i can say!
Space is 3 dimensional - you can not click 3d space... well you can in EVE and get your ship flying in some more random than anything direction.
Shame, cause it could be easily done via tactical view
Just bad CCP, just BAD
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
It's quite easy to rat in 0.2-0.4 in a frigate.
What security are you ratting?
My Ratting Frig:
Punisher
Highs - Close Range Lasers with XRay Crystals
Meds - AB (or MWD) + Statis Webifier
Lows - Small Armor Rep + All the Energized Resistance Plating I can hold that is designed for the rats. (IE: Blood = 2 Thermal + 1 EM)
A Work in Progress.
Add Me
rattrap trust me, just fit some 20mm ACs and RLs in your high slots and an ab in a mid. Then fit out for armour tanking, best look in the ships and modules forum at www.eve-online.com there's a sticky there with ship setups. Orbit at optimal and you'll kill a frigate npc pretty quick, if it doesent work go back to arts.
Remember frigates use their speed for tanking, high speed/transversal = hard to hit so you take less damage than when you're not moving firing arts.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Mate
I dont understand one word
Acs? RLs? ab in a mid ?
Also in new missions you are fighting clusters of around 10 rats
ps
this was my 999 post!
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Use mouse to manually retreat, and shoot at the pursuing NPC's.
Kite them.
Use webber to keep them at bay.
I dont understand one word
Acs? RLs? ab in a mid ?
Also in new missions you are fighting clusters of around 10 rats
ps
this was my 999 post!
AC= Autocannon (short range projectile weapon)
(Real Life?)
RL = I have no idea
AB= Afterburner
Essentially, Rattrap you were on the right way there. For low Skill Point characters I usually recommend to stay at bay from npcs/opposition. Simply for the fact that distance is the best defense for an inxeperienced pilot.
Using Artilleries, combined with an Afterburner is a very good way to achieve that. The tactics to make that work is simply warp in, start attacking npcs at about 20km range, and then the npcs will move toward you (since most NPC frigates prefer attack ranges below 10km). Rotate the view so you are looking into the opposite direction from where your target(s) is coming and double click on the open space. Now your ship starts to move away from the NPCs thereby holding the distance (hopefully).
Use your Afterburner and the Speed slider at the bottom of the ship controls to adjsut your speed, sou you keep the NPCs around 10 to 15 km. Don't use "keep range", since that will usually just shake your ship around, especially if the NPCs are slower than you.
If you get better Navigation and gunnery skills you can start moving closer and more personal, but untill then I would advice you stick to artillery.
------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Mandolin
Designers need to move away from the old D&D level-based model which was never designed for player vs player combat in the first place.
Some terms to be familar with:
AB = Afterburner
MWD = Microwarpdrive
AC = Autocannon
RL = Rocket Launcher
PDU = Power Diagnostic System
RCU = Reactor Control Unit
SAR/MAR/LAR = Small/Medium/Large Armor Repairer
SB = Shield Booster (or Smart bomb depending on context. Smart bombs are HI slot mods whereas Shield Boosters are Mid Slot mods)
MSE/LSE = Medium Shield Extender / Large Shield Extender
nos = nosferatu (energy vampire mod that drains target's cap into your own ship)
T1/T2 = Tech 1 / Tech 2
pg = power grid (every ship has a certain ammount of power grid and almost every mod requires a certain ammount of power grid to fit)
AWU = Advanced Weapon Upgrades (skill that decreases pg requirements for guns and missile launchers)
DCU = Damage Control Unit
And yes, you can manually fly by double clicking in space. Think of it as moving in a direction, not moving to a point and then stopping. Familiar with a spherical coordinate system? It works just like that where your ship is the origin and the distance row to the point you double click to = infinity. So if you double click some star or gas cloud in the background, your ship will fly towards it though it will never get there.
Yes , got me a rifter
But no armor upgrades or things like that. Fitted two civilian shield boosters - i know it sucks but i have no skill for better.
I fitted 3 " 280mm howitzer artillery " , and i have no power for rocket launcher.
Basically i can kill any rat in few hits , but as i said when i get to close (one or two are not problem, but theyt are usualy lots of them) , it gets hot cause they slice my shields to fast.
I am using tactical display always
No idea what webber is though
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Yes , got me a rifter
But no armor upgrades or things like that. Fitted two civilian shield boosters - i know it sucks but i have no skill for better.
I fitted 3 " 280mm howitzer artillery " , and i have no power for rocket launcher.
Basically i can kill any rat in few hits , but as i said when i get to close (one or two are not problem, but theyt are usualy lots of them) , it gets hot cause they slice my shields to fast.
I am using tactical display always
No idea what webber is though
Several things that I see giving you a trough time. The civ shield boosters are worthless. look up mechanic on the market. Buy the skillbook and train that to lvl 1 (if you don't already have it) and train repair systems to lvl 1 for a small armor repairer I (i think thats all the skill requirements but you can look for yourself under that mod's info). A webber (Stasis Webifyer) slows the target's speed down by 75-90% depending on the quality of web you get. This is very helpful for keeping them in one place allowing you to either keep your distance, or orbit them quickly so they can't hit you.
The 280mm howitzers shoot far but have slow reload time, take a lot of pg, and have poor tracking. If a target is moving to fast around you, your guns will have a hard time hitting it because thier tracking speed is slow. If you want to go for the range approach though, then I'd recommend getting an Afterburner to go faster. Fit a webber to stop them dead if they get 10km away or closer. Use nanofibers to increase your speed. You may have to consider downgrading to 250mm howitzers. Its not a big deal, they don't do as much damage, but fire faster and track better so damage over time is similar.
Search for these mods on the market, look at their skill requirements and consider training for them:
1mn Afterburner I
Nanofiber Internal Structure I
Small Armor Repairer I
Stasis Webifyer I (sic)
rocket launcher I
phalanx rocket / gremlin rocket / foxfire rocket / thorn rocket
As far as ammo goes for your arties, I'd recommend using nuclear S or fusion S in general if its range you want. If using AC's then EMP S is good.
What type of rats are you fighting? What name are they prefixed with? (example: Angel liquidator, Angel Tribuni, Arch-Angel Thug. These rats are of the "Angels faction").
I have 4million skill points into gunnery and the only thing you will ever see me in is a frigate/destroyer class ship. They are the most logically applicable ship for newer or casual players who do not have massive assets to afford tech 2 fitted battleships. A skillfull frigate pilot is at times more valued then a fleet of battleships.
Using frigate:
Transversal Velocity. This relates to the difference in your speed and trajectory compared to your targets. The higher the Transversal Velocity is the harder it will be to track you. This goes both ways and it's easy to break you're own tracking abilities with a Transversal that is too high.
I *almost* never "orbit" a target until after I've weened down the opposition. I use the Tactical Overlay (heard ELITE rocked, never seen it.) quite often. Since it is one of the best tools to help learn ship-to-ship combat while being new to the game it is recomended, especially as a frigate class pilot. Senior players will use it too although with less frequency.
Click on a target while the TacticalOverlay is active and you'll see a line from your ship to the selected target. You do not need to lock a target for this line to appear. The line will also be drawn to stationary objects like planets and stargates. Click on the various RATS to see the line change. Notice that when you move the cursor over your weapon modules you will see a bubble. Doing this while the line to your target is present will also show a hash mark where the line meets the bubble. The first hasmark is your weapon's Optimal Range and the second represents the Falloff. (note: in PvP it is wise to use this since when a hostile target warps off while you had them selected there will be a line drawn to their path they warped out to. This gives you a good chance to accurately land on them if you attempt to give chace.)
Manual flight is great for frigate and destroyer pilots. Double clicking in space will redirect your ship. If you had completed the new player tutorial you would have known this. :P
Approach your targets at roughly a 45 degree angle. If you fly straight at them you are not going to break their tracking. Flying at a 90 degree angle at full speed meens their turrets have to follow your ship in order to hit which could be difficult for cruiser vs frigs and nearly impossible for a battleship vs frig. Fly towards the target while maintaining a high Transversal Velocity, ie fly towards the target at a 45 degree angle.
I had done much solo ratting in a Coercer (Amarr Destroyer). I am easily able to solo into .1 systems with a Coercer. I've solo'd lvl 2 missions with ease. I've ran support in lvl 4 missions. I can fly the Coercer into a spawn of multiple Battleships in 0.0 while picking off the frigates and cruisers; white knuckles baby !!
Manual fligth control of your frigate will escalate your skill above a large majority of players in your tenure. Static "orbit...." should not be done until you're in the position to take advantage of the command. It is easy for a player to guide their ship in orbit, manually, albeit the "orbit..." exists to make it easier to maintain your distance to keep your ship within the Optimal Range of your fitted turrets.
I can furhter expand upon this if needed. I'll lurk this post...
If you are using long range hard hitting poor tracking turrets you could always try to fly away from the RATs. They will pursue you and your superior optimal range should allow you to pop all the support ships before engaging the cruisers.
???
Just double click in space in the DIRECTION you wish to travel. Your ship will turn and fly in that direction. I dunno where your confusion is. If you double click somewhere on the screen (not on an object, just in space) the ship will turn and fly in whichever direction that is. Pan your camera pick a direction and go.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Yes , got me a rifter
But no armor upgrades or things like that. Fitted two civilian shield boosters - i know it sucks but i have no skill for better.
I fitted 3 " 280mm howitzer artillery " , and i have no power for rocket launcher.
Basically
i can kill any rat in few hits , but as i said when i get to close (one
or two are not problem, but theyt are usualy lots of them) , it gets
hot cause they slice my shields to fast.
I am using tactical display always
No idea what webber is though
no
reason to fit 2 shields boosters at all, thats just a waste of
cap. just by one small shield booster (better than civilian).
also unless you are caldari you don't necessarily need a shield booster.
_________________________________
playing:
ww2online: Fader
EVE: Fader Bane
proud member of BKB http://www.bkbhq.com/
Yes , got me a rifter
But no armor upgrades or things like that. Fitted two civilian shield boosters - i know it sucks but i have no skill for better.
I fitted 3 " 280mm howitzer artillery " , and i have no power for rocket launcher.
Basically i can kill any rat in few hits , but as i said when i get to close (one or two are not problem, but theyt are usualy lots of them) , it gets hot cause they slice my shields to fast.
I am using tactical display always
No idea what webber is though
no reason to fit 2 shields boosters at all, thats just a waste of cap. just by one small shield booster (better than civilian). also unless you are caldari you don't necessarily need a shield booster.
It always strikes me how people take some things for granted. Especially people that play a certain game for long time.
I certanly think EVE is all the best , but as i posted many times there is a big problem with a fact that EVE is not actually built on a SPACE engine.
Let me explain - 3D game engines of older generations had rotation limitation - Something like a head on a neck - You could rotate the camera from 1 - 180 degree -> meaning it has horizont (eve uses such engine)
But the first space games started using "decent" engine which had 360 rotation -> meaning its horizont was changing with ships rotation.
But this is not a real problem for EVE - just shows that in first days of coding , the game concept was more based on other great things than actually simulating open space.
Now back to tactical display
This was riped directly from Elite , and than was ripped over and over again , till its came to EVE
Excelent display. It basically makes circle around your ships horizont - marking 0 degree
Now a little line is going from 0 degree to a target ship marking if it is up or down relative to 0 degree of your ship, and also showing exact distance.
Now another line is connected from your ship to a targed showing which elevation you are taking to reach the target.
Excelent...
But now with this great system. What about moving your ship acordingly.
So you say - what is the problem ???
And i say - space has 3 cordinates X,Y and Z - granted you need only two if the ship continues moving
Did you ever play HOMEWORLD ?
To move you would need two clicks
One click you would select a point on Y cordinate (or on tactical display circle) and another click a place on Y(and Z cordinate) meaning elevation
Voila !
That is ship tactical movement.
What EVE has - is click somwhere non defined (cause you can not click on 3d space) and watch your ship move somwhere , perhaps in general direction you thought of.
But i understand this is the way it works in EVE. Which is ok - since as I understand most of the people use orbit anyway - and duke it out kamikazi style
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Clicking in space gives you a vector in spherical coordinates centered on your ship. You dont get a destination, you get a direction. You then start moving in that direction until you tell the ship to stop or pick a new direction.
On the off chance you're an astronomy aficionado, double clicking in space gives you a declination and a right ascension, with your ship the center point.
Incidentally, EVE does support a free 360 camera, unlike the existing camera which has some restriction based on the plane defined by your ship. However, it was too disorienting for many people, so the 'right-side up' restriction was put in.
Also, thinking of EVE as a space-based game is faulty. The game is certainly set in space, but it possesses mechanics which are far more similar to those you'd find underwater, not those you'd find in a frictionless environment like space.
Rat: When you 'click in space' in EVE you are picking a VECTOR not a destination. You will fly DIRECTLY toward the point in space in which you click. No matter what vector you choose. You will fly along that vector in a straight line untill you choose a new vector.
You aren't picking a destination (unless you are clicking on an object) just a vector. Hope that clears up your confusion. You don't pick coordinates to fly towards, you just choose your vector. It's much easier that way really.
Yes , got me a rifter
But no armor upgrades or things like that. Fitted two civilian shield boosters - i know it sucks but i have no skill for better.
I fitted 3 " 280mm howitzer artillery " , and i have no power for rocket launcher.
Basically i can kill any rat in few hits , but as i said when i get to close (one or two are not problem, but theyt are usualy lots of them) , it gets hot cause they slice my shields to fast.
I am using tactical display always
No idea what webber is though
no reason to fit 2 shields boosters at all, thats just a waste of cap. just by one small shield booster (better than civilian). also unless you are caldari you don't necessarily need a shield booster.
It always strikes me how people take some things for granted. Especially people that play a certain game for long time.
I certanly think EVE is all the best , but as i posted many times there is a big problem with a fact that EVE is not actually built on a SPACE engine.
Let me explain - 3D game engines of older generations had rotation limitation - Something like a head on a neck - You could rotate the camera from 1 - 180 degree -> meaning it has horizont (eve uses such engine)
But the first space games started using "decent" engine which had 360 rotation -> meaning its horizont was changing with ships rotation.
But this is not a real problem for EVE - just shows that in first days of coding , the game concept was more based on other great things than actually simulating open space.
Now back to tactical display
This was riped directly from Elite , and than was ripped over and over again , till its came to EVE
Excelent display. It basically makes circle around your ships horizont - marking 0 degree
Now a little line is going from 0 degree to a target ship marking if it is up or down relative to 0 degree of your ship, and also showing exact distance.
Now another line is connected from your ship to a targed showing which elevation you are taking to reach the target.
Excelent...
But now with this great system. What about moving your ship acordingly.
So you say - what is the problem ???
And i say - space has 3 cordinates X,Y and Z - granted you need only two if the ship continues moving
Did you ever play HOMEWORLD ?
To move you would need two clicks
One click you would select a point on Y cordinate (or on tactical display circle) and another click a place on Y(and Z cordinate) meaning elevation
Voila !
That is ship tactical movement.
What EVE has - is click somwhere non defined (cause you can not click on 3d space) and watch your ship move somwhere , perhaps in general direction you thought of.
But i understand this is the way it works in EVE. Which is ok - since as I understand most of the people use orbit anyway - and duke it out kamikazi style
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
you zoom too far out it basically looks like a 2d plane. while
zoomed in you can accurately move your ship where you want to.
that single click gives all the X, Y, and Z coordinates needed.
_________________________________
playing:
ww2online: Fader
EVE: Fader Bane
proud member of BKB http://www.bkbhq.com/
Good one
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas