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The downfall of PVP based games
Cooktastico
Member Posts: 599
Heyo.
I played DAOC for a few months but never maxed my character out. I played after the Catacombs expansion, for any of you who played that as well. I think Catacombs ruined the game.
While I didn't get to experience any of the end-game Catacombs stuff, I think it ruined the adventure part of the game. Catacombs was mainly just an expansion pack to speed through grinding. I mean, you could still adventure, but what's the point since you could grind so much faster? I'm guessing that the purpose of this, was to max your character out as soon as possible so you can start PvPing without delay.
What I wanted to know, is if anyone else shares this feeling. I think that heavily PvP based games put adventuring on the backburner. I think the most fun part about PvPing is that it adds to adventuring even more. PvPing should mesh with adventuring, not replace it. I hope that WarHammer fixes this and adds a nice blend of PvP and adventure.
Plus, what's the fun in being able to hunt and not get ganked by six 50-somethings?
-Cook
I played DAOC for a few months but never maxed my character out. I played after the Catacombs expansion, for any of you who played that as well. I think Catacombs ruined the game.
While I didn't get to experience any of the end-game Catacombs stuff, I think it ruined the adventure part of the game. Catacombs was mainly just an expansion pack to speed through grinding. I mean, you could still adventure, but what's the point since you could grind so much faster? I'm guessing that the purpose of this, was to max your character out as soon as possible so you can start PvPing without delay.
What I wanted to know, is if anyone else shares this feeling. I think that heavily PvP based games put adventuring on the backburner. I think the most fun part about PvPing is that it adds to adventuring even more. PvPing should mesh with adventuring, not replace it. I hope that WarHammer fixes this and adds a nice blend of PvP and adventure.
Plus, what's the fun in being able to hunt and not get ganked by six 50-somethings?
-Cook
Comments
The primary purpose of Warhammer is the idea of an all-out war. The idea that this MMO is trying to capture or honor. Can't have a war without fighting. However, based on numerous previews the game will enjoy "safe zones" with outside zones being capturable to prepare one side for end game capital raid. The game still has PvE, but its just that everything you do is to help the war effort weather or not you chose to directly fight or not.
To prefer a certain game type such as prefering PvE/Adventuring over PvP is merely an individual preference, but Mythic has stated that PvE isn't taking that heavy of a loss or a "backseat" to the PvP despite that PvP is the focus of the game.
I am not exactly sure what you mean by "adventuring". But if you mean a long drawn out experience of slowly leveling like classic DAoC then I would say I most definately don't share that feeling with you. I would venture a guess that most others out there would disagree with that feeling as well.
Since WoW has come along, it has given us an example of fast pace leveling to get to its pve/raiding end game. Now I personally hate the end game WoW has, but I think it has it right when it comes to leveling speed. I do have the feeling that WAR will have a quick leveling system. I hope it does. Because by far the vast amount of daoc players feel that ToA was DAoC's down fall not catacombs. And why was ToA so bad? Because it forced everyone to endure a mind numbing level grind (artifact level). Don't even get me started on buff bots...
Who want's to spend endless hours in dungeons and on quests when the PVP game is about fighting other people?
A PVP focused game should have quick leveling or at the very least little focus on adventure and more on PVP. People play PVP games to PVP, not to PVE. If you want a expansive PVE game then there are already games like that out and more on the way.
Downfall? No, it's the upswing.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
Ive never played DAoC but what you describe there sounds a little lame, but then I do only have one side of the coin with what you have posted so I will hold my opinions on that case.
As for War being the same as you describe, I think that the way that the Dev team have worded it on the official site sounds (to me atleast) as if they are going to have a system where by you can progress soly by PvE or PvP but it will be designed to do both, the wording suggests that War is more pointing out that it will have a new style of PvP and do it well, to show there ace as it were, rather than saying thats going to be what the game is, and all it will be.
As I said this is what I read into/out of the scripture on the War offical site, by no means does that make it right, but thats what I think it says
Plus y friend you added at the last the bit saying:
Plus, what's the fun in being able to hunt and not get ganked by six 50-somethings?
Remember that there will be no LvL 50's for you to get ganked by, there are no LvL's in the game, thank god someone got rid of the "WoW style LvL based game, I far prefere the skill "Box" type of progressing through a game, and unlike SWG PRE CU it wont be just a constant grind on PvE monsters if you get into the PvP side of the game nice and early, and progress that way.
War seems to fix these problems by not really having that same level based system. I think that will make it a lot better right off the bat. As for the PvE, that's good that they knew they can't put it on the backburner and I think how it ties into PvP will be sweet.
Can you seriously refer to the level system in WoW as "Wow Style???" That level system has been around since the dawn of rpgs. lol
I think WAR is going to set the standard for mmorpgs of the future with their PvP from Day One idea. I love having the choice of PvP and PvE, and I especially love that I can gain experience and progress in levels in the game from PvP.
With 24 unique classes, RvR is going to be really interesting.
---------------------------------------------
I live to fight, and fight to live.
Option 1 - End Game 40 man raids: fighting against harder math equations, I mean, mobs - meh
Option 2 - End Game RvR: oh yeah baby, you know how I like it
I personally think the whole endgame pvp thing that is implemented in a couple of games is a totally wrong idea. It almost feels as if pvp isn't a part of the game, it's just a waiting cell for people who 'maxed out'.
Anyone playing pvp should have a shot at killing the other guy. This means that a person who has fewer skills(ingame) should still be able to kill a foe with more skills. The notion that pvp is only for the 'elite' is laughable to me.
Let's hope WAR does this right...
DAoC is a RvR game. The majority of the community sees the PvE part as necessary obstacle, which is why the ToA-expansion was one of the worst decisions ever made by Mythic. But anyway, if the main point of a game is to engage is large scale RvR battles, I think the PvE part should be enjoyable, but short. Remember, PvP its not an alternative endgame-variante, it is the whole point of the game. Why force people going through endless grind to get to the fun? (fun being RvR, since the main audience enjoys RvR).
Mythic has alot of experience from 5 years of DAoC-development, so I am pretty sure that they are up to the task making RvR in W.A.R. fun.
WAR however will be focusing on PvP and it will have balanced PvP. Mythic said that they will first balance PvP and if that makes the PvE a little unbalanced they don't care because it's a PvP game.
in WAR low levels will be able to kill high levels, or at least be usefull in PvP/RvR. So in WAR you don't need to grind before being able to help in PvP.
The Illuminati Gaming Society
Amen to that. Both WoW and Lineage2 had a bad take on PvP. It would be fair to say that with WoW was never really implemented. They effectively killed it with the Battlegrounds. R.I.P.
L2 had too many NPC's interferring at Castle seiges and the old red or dead system for ad-hoc pvp was old before the game came out.
I've heard a few times now that in WAR player skill has more bearing than game skills. Hopefully it will be the first MMO that lets players real skill shine through, rather than let the guy with the latest shiny toy own all de facto.
_________________________________________
You can walk the walk but can you talk the talk?
Anyone who didn't have a buffbot (a second account with a level 50 buffing class that buffs your main then sits in a safe spot) was at an immediate disadvantage, and it lowered the demand of people with buffing playstyles (desire of Friars was low, they also buff, but not as good as Cleric [buffbot standard] buffs). I hope that this doesn't become a problem in WAR.
Unfortunately, team stacking is almost unavoidable, unless they were to put some way to measure how well a side was doing and lock character creation (or maybe a character creation queue) for the "winning" side; but that would probably make many people unhappy.
live life, rock hard.
Ok dokie, Its quite clear some people are just shitting out o their arse in this thread, so lets clear some things up aye? ^.^.
In responce to Elda and that load of crap in the little quote box above this, Eat the latest grab bag.
"The specific answer to your question is that Tier 1 players cannot win a one on one fight with a Tier 4 player. A pack of Tier 1 players will be able to cause harm to a Tier 4. We have not yet set an exact level of intended damage (and it will vary hugely depending on the player and the circumstances), so I cannot give you a specific answer."
And as for adventuring, and the premise of being ganked by a hunting mob of higher leverls...
"Higher tier players who enter lower tier zones will not be able to attack or be attacked by lower tier players. However, if a lower tier player wants to enter a higher tier zone, all bets are off, and attacking/being attacked can happen. "
In summation, take a gander at the lineup so far for WAR (also taking into account the very short production time of this game)
"When asked about the game world, here is a summary we got from the guys. There are thirty three zones: six capital cities, three major PvE dungeons, and one high level combination RvR/PvE dungeon (think Darkness Falls in DAoC). "
Compare these numbers to the amount of PvP/PvE content in WoW, or EQ2, for example (although keeping in mind that both games have been out for bugger ages) and you can get a pretty good idea of where PvE sits in this predominatly PvP game. Its there, but PvP is in there more-so.
Playing - --
Played - AO, CoH/CoV, DDO, Eve, Guildwars, LOTRO, WoW.
Waiting - For WAR, Fury.