Originally posted by zguillotine IMHO, you overestimate your position. Basically, you are saying that there is no room for fixes, no room for balancing, no room for any errors or changes since the game was published. You don't know how good you have it. Let's take a look at some of the rest of the MMO world. EQ and EQII sucked. They were rife with bugs from day one. And some of them still have not been addressed! So, to bring it back to the discussion, let's say you just love the idea of playing a Druid. You work your rear off to get to level 60 in PvE only to find out that the Druid is broken and doesn't meet your expectations. There is a critical weakness that Druids have that is being exploited in PvP or in Raids or even end game instances. Under your regime you would just be screwed. There will always be changes that need to be made to balance out play in every game. However, Blizzard doesn't do products with test results showing bugs and errors and then just ignore them for all time while they work on the next expansion so they can make another burst profit from expansion sales. Okay, now that covers the basic tweaking, what about major shifts. I said you don't know how good you have it and that is so true. Ever hear of Star Wars Galaxies? They completely changed the game, not once, but twice. The second time restricted class structure down to 9 possible classes with absolutely no variety from one person to the next in each of those classes except for the weapons and armor you used. And if you departed from the standard weapons and armor, you sucked at everything. Blizzard made a small but noticable change in to add some additional abilities and tweak some others. Oh, boo hoo. My life is over. Now to talk about your original subject, battleground rewards. I suppose that everything you do is right the first time. That would mean you have never had to change your talent tree, or buy a different weapon or armor in game. It would mean that in your real life, you have never made a mistake, ever. If you think that is you I call bull pucky. Get a clue, life is a growth experience. It is no different when you are providing an online service than if you are running a restaurant. After a while, you grow and change or you get left befind. To give you an example, look at McDonalds. This is probably the biggest chain restaurant in our country, yet they started out with hamburgers, cheeseburgers, fries and shakes, and that is it. They introduced new foods to the menu. They took off foods that didn't work. If it is broke fix it. Is there something about that statement that you don't understand? So, let's examine what would have been the end result if Blizzard had not made the 30% reduction. Based on that percentage, the battleground gear would be the next thing they would have to spend resources to "fix". You are advocating that they change some other area that you don't play in so that you can get the big rewards 30% faster than you are supposed to. Hello? If the plan is not working, you change it or fix it. have you ever heard the saying that no plan survives contact with the enemy? Well, the enemy here is the ones who do nothing but complain, my glass is half empty, how come yours is half full? Why not spend some time looking at what you gained rather than what you lost that was not in the original plan anyway? Excuse people for being human and making a miscalculation. Remember, we are nerds and geeks, we find all the ways to exploit the program and then we do it. Excuse the programmer for being just as much of a nerd and fixing the exploit. Then take a look at what you get and stop complaining about what you don't. If it ain't there, you don't get it. Get over yourself. I know this post opens my up for a severe flaming, but I don't care. I can read between the lines of flamers and see the hurt child underneath their cruelty. And yes, I have a hurt child in me too. Have fun and level fast. -=zg=-
Thank you, you saved me time to try and explain the same thing you are explaining, usely i find the topics quite intresting but this topic only show'd once again someone that actualy does not really know mmorpg.
People read the artical of -=zg=- a couple of times and see that this person is more right then the whole topic can ever be, really if some of you feel that the topic made more sence then i wonder where gaming is going to and trust me thats not the way that gaming should be, but unfortunaly seems that now a days the gaming communtiy is rather lazy. I'm just very happy that atleast 1 person ( that's -=zg=-) that see's it like it should be ( -=zg=-)
As a non-raiding, PvP loving, casual player, I activated my account before BC came out only for this patch. The amount of BG's needed to gain even the slightest honor is ridiculous.
However Blizzard has always catered to it's raiders. If you got enjoyment from shutting out the rest of the world so you could run BWL 200 times or found that 21 hours of PvP a day wasn't enough, then you are Blizz's ideal customer. And those were the people that were bitching when the "rest of us" were now able to get epics.
I agree with the author. I enjoy this game more than any out right now. However there are a lot of games coming out and a couple more decisions like this, and the WoW era will end.
Well the TBC expansion offers casual players alot, 10 more levels to grind/quest, you call leveling a grind but its how u chose to level, and leveling with a friend is 100 times more enjoyable. Many ppl race to top level bypasing story based quests in favour for the quick kill x amount of y quests... so dont complain.
TBC also offers 7 new dungeons most of which can be run by 5 man groups... upto 25man raid groups, so casual players can raid too, blizzard obviously realised that 40man raids where a bad idea.
TBH any MMO's end game is boring after a while, not sure why ppl always slate WoW.
Im looking forward to TBC, a new world to explore, new dungeons to enjoy, PvP arenas (like GW ladder but 1,000,000 better, cus we all know guildwarz PvP is a joke).
WoW is a game that I keep coming back to - I've been through a number of MMO's, starting when The Realm was advanced technology (!!!) and WoW is the game that I keep quitting and coming back to at the moment in the MMO market.
I think that is where Blizzard get their (imho) misguided drive from - at the moment there is less competition for their base market. I'm not stating opinion, but fact when you look at the market figure break-up for MMO's.
However, there are a number of MMO's that are getting close to release, principally focusing on a smaller initial market with a view to expansion - eg. Vanguard, Conan, etc. that I believe will eat into the core population that WoW currently enjoys. There was an interesting post early in this thread referring to McDonalds - and basically that is what Blizzard has developed with WoW, an MMO that endeavours to cater to the largest group of people possible without really satisfying any of them.
WoW is likely to stay the broadest appealing of MMO's on the market - the future is for companies that see the niche that isn't yet catered for, nails that market, and builds on that success. At present I think that any MMO that aims for the "McDonald's" approach will fail (DDO anybody?). As I said at the beginning, I do keep coming back to WoW - please don't take me for a flamer - but you always lose out on quality in the end if your principle focus is on quantity.
Unfortunately I believe that WoW will suffer from the bland standardisation that effects all mass-marketed successful products. It is up to the consumer to support the quality 'niche' market when it develops and allow it to thrive if you want to overcome mass-market standardisation of your MMO experience.
I disagree that the 30% adjustment is a bad thing. If everyone can get everything quicker than Blizzard expected then there is no point in it being a "reward". If everything were easy then you would all be complaining that the game is easy mode, the fact that they adjusted to make it slightly (30%) more difficult is a good thing.
I really do not get people who complain about adjustments. They are the same people, it seems, who complain about certain classes being overpowered or underpowered. They do not seem to understand that with balance and adjustment the game becomes more fun for more people rather than more fun for fewer people or less fun for more people.
I think that Blizzard has done a wonderful job so far and I hope that they continue to adjust things and tweak things here and there to keep things fresh (or as fresh as they can) so the game does not stagnate and get abandoned.
I dont like Mcdonalds food. I try it just one time, and no I never again step in a McDonalds again.
When I start to play WoW, I just did because a friend just put some effort, for a year telling me, that this game is gonna be "The Game", I start play in the open beta, and I am still playing. I am not a raider player, I didnt like to do instances, this is boring....
I have 7 chars that hit level 60, some of with crap gear, but I still enjoy to play, but start to get bored. I miss my old days at Ashen Empires game, maybe I come back to play there sometime. Or move to Warhammer online when this game release.
Ah let me tell my opinion about this 30% less honour. I dont care, I still can do some PvP sometimes and I will get this PvP stuffs in the future. The only thing I dont like is the queue system, is not fun wait around almost half hour to enter a BG.
WoW, Warhammer, Ashen empires and other games, its just a game. Some people transform this things in a way of life, but remember real life is more challenge, and much more fun.
PS.: English isnt my first language, so I could make some mistakes.
This is the way I read it: WOW is the biggest game ever, MMORPG improves their net worth by having people active on their site, post a poorly written rant as an editorial, people respond and it doen't matter what they say. Oh and look, here I am falling for it.
If you took out every sentence that had a variation of "What is going on at Blizzard?" what would you have? I was tricked into wasting my time reading this article by the thought that this "review" might have some really interesting insight into the largest patch in a long time. Nope its just a PVP rant.
Don't get me wrong. I agree with the writer's feelings. But the content of this article could have been summed up with:
"What's going on at Blizzard? They overhauled the PVP to make it easier for non-raid people to get good stuff, then they pulled the rug out from under us!"
Even the tag line on the end: "Post if you want to complain too, or say anything, just post!" is annoying. Maybe the article was written poorly just to annoy people like me enough to post. "Just because I am paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me"
Reviews of talent changes, the arenas, which characters got love and which ones not so much - that would be a review worth reading. If this is the quality of MMORPG articles, I'll be cancelling all my notifications soon.
It all started with a lantern, a sword, and a trap door...
Seriously, someone said it took about 20 hours to get Grand Marshall. That's maybe 2 or 3 hardcore days of playing of let's say a week for an adverage player. Keep in mind that i'm saying if you only PVP.
30% increase is what... 2 or maybe 3 weeks for an adverage player. It's not that that bad.
So, now I have read the stuff posted after my post and I believe some folks are just not understanding what I am saying, though some definitely do. Let me try another tack.
What does MMORPG stand for? It is Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. To start off with, let's just remove the first three words. OMG, he is talking about role playing! Smash him down, Chew him up! Chill a minute and listen to what I have to say, please.
Taking the last word from the remainder that I left, I want to take this opportunity to remind everyone, this is a game. It is not a life or death struggle against the forces of light or darkness. It is a means to find some relaxation. As the tips say, take all things in moderation, including World of Warcraft.
Now that I have that off my chest, let's look at the two remaining words, role playing. To me, this does not mean that you must run around spouting prose at every combat opportunity to ensure that you have validated your right to "...smite those damnable creatures soundly about the head and shoulders until I have appeased the great Pumpkin's need for blood and destruction..." well, you get the point. Role playing on an MMO to me means taking my time, finding out new things, finding my equipment, taking what I get, immersing myself in the story that many of the "hundreds of programmers" (someone in a previous post) put together for our enjoyment. I am not looking for a hack and slash environment where it is all endless combat in order to get one piece of uber armor or some "Godhammer" weapon.
I think of an MMORPG as a different universe, one that I can partake in freely (as long as I pay my subscription) and one that I can allow myself to enjoy without the feeling that I must have the ultimate character. I mean think about it, if this was a real place (it is not for those of you who might not know that), would you and 4 of your closest friends think you could go and put the beat down on Onyxia? I think not. You would take along 39 of your friends and associates and anyone else brave enough to take the chance to kill one of the great creatures of your land. Rightly so! And then, once you got there, would you want the same Bastard Sword of Unbelievably Hard Hitting that everyone else that ever raided a dragon's lair got? I think not! I want something unique, something mine, something that is not something that every other Tom, Dick or Harry has in his pack.
Well, frankly, that last is not possible. I cannot see the game having 7.5 million unique items drop from one, albeit huge and old, dragon. So, because of the nature of the game, some duplication is unavoidable. However, that doesn't mean that because Johnny-Joe has the above mentioned Bastard Sword that I must have it. But too many people seem hung up on having to get some predetermined item or set. The beauty of an RPG is that you can take what you get and make the most out of it. Okay, so my weapon use level is 4 below mine, and the DPS is .6 less than yours, so what? I don't care if I can piss further than you can or not. Why do you? Can't you come up with some originality on your own? Find something that no one else has and step away from the cookie cutter Talent trees. You do know the people that come up with those had to think, right? Try it on, thinking is not that hard and it can be very rewarding. Maybe someday someone will post your new idea as the new best gear setup around.
You know, it all comes down to this. If you are playing the game and think that Blizzard screwed it up because you cannot get to level 40 in less than 10 hours of play time, you are looking at this whole thing wrong. You are setting yourself up for unhappiness. You are making it impossible to achieve happiness. Then, to top it all off, you post your reasoning as if it was the only way to think on forums in a vain attempt to STEAL OUR HAPPINESS. I say, let it go, take a breath, find something else to fill a portion of your life, like a girl/boyfriend, spouse, children, job, hobby other than online. Take some time to stop and smell the roses and stop trying to be a wet blanket thrown over the rest of us.
Have you ever heard the saying, "If you don't have something good to say, don't say anything."?
Originally posted by Ponico Seriously, someone said it took about 20 hours to get Grand Marshall. That's maybe 2 or 3 hardcore days of playing of let's say a week for an adverage player. Keep in mind that i'm saying if you only PVP.
30% increase is what... 2 or maybe 3 weeks for an adverage player. It's not that that bad.
Actually, if you are talking about a 30% increase in play time to achieve a goal and the base is say 3 days, that would mean it would then take 4 days. If you are talking about online time, then 72 hours would turn into about 96 hours. At say 6 hours per day (I would say that is hardcore, but I may be low) that is 16 days of play versus the original 12 days. I agree, not that bad.
This editorial is nothing more then a "I want my cookie and I want it NOW!" rant. Why not ask for instant level 60's in full epic gear while your at it?
Geez, another ill-informed half-baked whiny editorial. I only come to MMORPG.com any more to register for the contests and donwload trial games. The editorial staff here is a joke. In fact, most of the stories here aren't any more insightful or better informed than a random World of Warcraft fanboi 1337 post on their forums. Learn to be journalists guys.
My account is cancelled. In fact: it was cancelled a couple days after 2.01 came out. Once I let it sink in that Blizzard is still all about hardcore players (who scream that x is too easy to get and y is too easy to get...), my second account cancellation was so easy. I took two people down with me too... 3 accounts activated 2 months ago because of boredom and just wanting to get well geared and do some PvPing.
And all the "hardcore" players who "put in more effort and deserve to be better [than me]"?! rofl My friends and I have been chain killing idiots in tier 2 epics since we hit level 30. Now that is fun! Like I've said before: I guess the afk fighting "skill" they learned for raiding doesn't apply vs. skilled players in PvP!
Have fun with your raiders Blizzard. I'm going to look for a game that doesn't reward dumbasses and no-skill-slackjaws.
If it's possible for you to edit your post on page 2, could you remove the long line towards the bottom. Apparently for some people its cutting off the right side of the page.
Well is made me pretty upset to find out about this when i had just come back to the game the Sunday before the made the Honor points 30% lower as if it wasnt low enough from the start.It's not just me but alot of people don't have the time to get 22k 40k or whatever the honor is needed to get better gear and weapon.
I mean not everyone who play's WoW can play 10+ hours a day i was lucky to get on for 4 hours a night and that is just to raid.Unfourtionatly i have decided to give up on WoW not really worth my time and effort because come TBC how will i ever reach 70 when it will be like going from 1-60 again.It took me a little over 6 months to ding 60 and about 2-3 months to get everything ready for end game.
So at first the last patch was very nice i was excited about the new honor system to re-activate my account (was gonna wait till TBC) but now i have just givin up all hope for Blizzard and WoW.So im gonna leave with saying this."GG Blizzard just made it even harder for people who can't be on 40+ hours a week to get gear and whatnot ready for TBC."
Originally posted by Stradden Hasani Davis returns today with a World of Warcraft Editorial regarding the recent 2.0.1 patch.
With only a little more than a month to go before The Burning Crusade hits stores Blizzard has put out one of the few last patches to Warcraft before the expansion changes the game forever. Patch 2.0.1 finally went live with some dramatic changes to the PvP system that Warcraft had to offer, do not worry, we will discuss those changes shortly. Players were given a Talent refresh to their characters because the talent trees were updated to reflect the upcoming levels in the expansion. So with several new spells, abilities, and pets, the game looked a little different, but it was the same old Warcraft. Gear, gear, gear, and more gear is what really matters in Before the Storm. Now PvP rewards can be gotten without the ridiculous grind it took players to gain the rank in order to purchase the items. No Wait! For those who did not hear, one week into the new Honor system and Blizzard has changed their minds again. Now there has been a 30% reduction to the honor you gain from PvP. Sound crazy, this was posted on the Blizzard forums Tuesday by Blizzard employee Nethaera:
Read the editorial here.
Just be happy your favorite MMO isn't ran by SOE, there has yet to be anything more catastrophic in the MMO industry then what SWG went through. Blizzard destroyed one thing, easy grinding. SOE destroy the whole game. Think about that, then praise the Blizzard Gods.
[[ DEAD ]] - Funny - I deleted my account on the site using the cancel account button. Forum user is separate and still exists with no way of deleting it. Delete it admins. Do it, this ends now.
I understand where the author is coming from, people hate to have things given to them, and suddenly yanked away. Especially when Blizzard's justification seems to be more like... "you guys are gearing up too fast, which might make the game too fun, so we're gonna have to put a stop to that sort of nonsense right now"
It is just another reason among many others that I decided not to play WOW anymore. BC holds no interest for me... don't want to do it...only to have to do it all over again when the next expansion comes out. (there really should be a top level cap that never gets lifted..ever...)
MMO developers need to spend more time adding fun content in their games to keep us playing, and less on trying to find ways to throw timesinks into them which grind our souls into the ground.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Earley Geez, another ill-informed half-baked whiny editorial. I only come to MMORPG.com any more to register for the contests and donwload trial games. The editorial staff here is a joke. In fact, most of the stories here aren't any more insightful or better informed than a random World of Warcraft fanboi 1337 post on their forums. Learn to be journalists guys.
Still you find the need to post something like that.
Granted MMORPG is not really known to have the best articles, I personally think that it's nice to see a different point of view. Most sites like IGN and Gamespot will make generic reviews and comments on a game while MMORPG will simply start a discussion.
If you do not agress with the editorial then simply explain why. The stories here don't need to give more info then a Fanboi 1337 post. Where did you hear that this site had more info then anyone else ? If I seriously want more info, I usually consult wikipedia lol.. I found more info about vanguard on that site then anywhere else O_o
Not a particularly balanced editorial in my opinion.
The PVP epics remain an order of magnitude more accessible than they were pre-patch even with the 30% honor reduction - I'm a pretty casual player and I have saved up about 11k honor since the patch which will almost get me one epic armor piece. I am more than happy with this as it is far better than anything I could have grinded for solo in any other way.
People are acting as if they have a right to get the whole epic set before TBC launches but I'm pretty sure that was not what was intended.
Everyone is very excited about the new releases, and rightly so, it offers new content. But I see the same type of Blizzard grind. PvE grind an alt to lvl 70 to get the third best gear. PvP grind to get the second best gear. Grind the same new 25 max. man instance to get the very best gear. Then go back to PvP because boredom has set in again.
PvP or PvE grind, still the same boring content. Repetition is what is "killing" me on playing WoW. Grind for gold, grind for reputation (PvE/PvP), or grind for levels. The rewards are the same, get the best gear with the greatest amount of "repeat".
Blizzard claims they want more story line content play in the new releases. I still have not figured out how repetition adds to this type of content. Thorium Brothers like me better because I mined 7200 dark iron ore compared to the lazy bum who only killed 300 incendisaurs. They like me so much that they gave me better patterns that require me to grind more for the materials.
Patch 2.0.1: (PvP play) wash, rinse, repeat for second best gear in the game at just 30% slower than initially promised. Helps delay the "I am bored" syndrome. Probably the best thing for Blizzard to do, the change allows for equal grind time on PvP and PvE. And keeps players from quitting the game 30% longer.
I disagree that the 30% adjustment is a bad thing. If everyone can get everything quicker than Blizzard expected then there is no point in it being a "reward". If everything were easy then you would all be complaining that the game is easy mode, the fact that they adjusted to make it slightly (30%) more difficult is a good thing.
I really do not get people who complain about adjustments. They are the same people, it seems, who complain about certain classes being overpowered or underpowered. They do not seem to understand that with balance and adjustment the game becomes more fun for more people rather than more fun for fewer people or less fun for more people.
I think that Blizzard has done a wonderful job so far and I hope that they continue to adjust things and tweak things here and there to keep things fresh (or as fresh as they can) so the game does not stagnate and get abandoned.
let's put this in perspective...
how far along are/were you in your reputations with the three factions and pvp honor rank?
keep in mind, even if you'd pvp'd from the very outset, all your scores for the armor were just set to ZERO. so, if you were ALMOST to rank 7, 8, whatever, doesn't matter, you just got put back to ZERO.
did you take that into your account of the 30% being a GOOD thing for pvpers?
maybe hunting for rare sand in silithus as a major 'tweak' to world pvp is also your idea of keeping the game fresh? hunting for sand, in a desert... very incredibly fresh!
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
This is very frustrating to players. I know Blizzard sits atop its seven million player hill but really who makes the decisions over there? It seemed like players who enjoy PvP finally got a chance to catch up to all of the Tier 2-3 armor raid groups and actually compete on an equal playing field. Nope sorry, your play time will be extended. On the edge of Burning Crusade why make this type of switch to players? I guess my question is has Blizzard become to high and mighty on their player base to adjust things that quickly on them? I hate to mention that there are dozens of MMOs coming out in the next year or so, will WoW remain on top of that hill forever? Not with decisions like this one.
If you're really concerned about fairness, how is fair that PvPers could catch up in a few weeks to tier 2 and 3 people who have put months of effort in to get that gear? The honor adjustment sucks, I agree whole heartedly. However, it is more fair this way. Making it super easy to get the PvP rewards sort of trivializes all of the PvE guilds success.
Most if not all MMORPGs are constructed like a mountain. You start at the bottom and start climbing up. Once you arrive at the top you will be very glad and proud but when that fades away you will ask "what now?" There is a limited amount of options open to you when you are standing on top of a mountain. Most people will start to climb back down and leave the mountain behind.
Blizzards job is to delay you from reaching the peak and asking "what now?" Blizzard is very good at this. If the path up the mountain was a easy and fast one they would lose subscriptions faster; for a company, that is a bad thing.
The thing that is strange to many of us is that they are giving us a new challenge (60-70 with new RARE gear that will make EPIC HWL gear worthless) and at the same time dalaying the amount of time required to get gear that will be sold as scrap in a months time. It appears to be a stupid move on Blizzards part, unless we can trade in our old HWL gear for new level 70 stuff when we get there, but like i said above blizzards job is to delay you from getting it so don't hold your breath.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
Back in my day (i.e., Asheron's Call) You got the quest, you went and rubbed out the baddie or whatever, you got your special armor, wha la! I hear people complaining about it to this person 2 seconds to get something whereas it's taking me 50 years. So what. Imagine how good you would feel if it had been you that got it in two seconds as opposed to fifty years. So whats this deal where you have to put set amount of hours into something to get said something else? Wouldn't it be fun if you killed a boss only once, could not kill him again in your time continuum cause he/she/it is dead, but hey, he/she/it drops all the crap that they were wearing/using, you and your buds divvy up the spoils, and go find other koo, mismatched gear to wear. . .or something. . .
Some of these newer games coming out like Vanguard and the other V game sound like they'll be much less anal, and much more fun. Fun is the key word.
If any of this makes no sense, it's ok. I need to sleep. Forgive me.
Comments
Thank you, you saved me time to try and explain the same thing you are explaining, usely i find the topics quite intresting but this topic only show'd once again someone that actualy does not really know mmorpg.
People read the artical of -=zg=- a couple of times and see that this person is more right then the whole topic can ever be, really if some of you feel that the topic made more sence then i wonder where gaming is going to and trust me thats not the way that gaming should be, but unfortunaly seems that now a days the gaming communtiy is rather lazy. I'm just very happy that atleast 1 person ( that's -=zg=-) that see's it like it should be (
-=zg=-)
Reklaw
As a non-raiding, PvP loving, casual player, I activated my account before BC came out only for this patch. The amount of BG's needed to gain even the slightest honor is ridiculous.
However Blizzard has always catered to it's raiders. If you got enjoyment from shutting out the rest of the world so you could run BWL 200 times or found that 21 hours of PvP a day wasn't enough, then you are Blizz's ideal customer. And those were the people that were bitching when the "rest of us" were now able to get epics.
I agree with the author. I enjoy this game more than any out right now. However there are a lot of games coming out and a couple more decisions like this, and the WoW era will end.
Favorite mmorpg's:
SWG
WoW
TBC also offers 7 new dungeons most of which can be run by 5 man groups... upto 25man raid groups, so casual players can raid too, blizzard obviously realised that 40man raids where a bad idea.
TBH any MMO's end game is boring after a while, not sure why ppl always slate WoW.
Im looking forward to TBC, a new world to explore, new dungeons to enjoy, PvP arenas (like GW ladder but 1,000,000 better, cus we all know guildwarz PvP is a joke).
WoW is a game that I keep coming back to - I've been through a number of MMO's, starting when The Realm was advanced technology (!!!) and WoW is the game that I keep quitting and coming back to at the moment in the MMO market.
I think that is where Blizzard get their (imho) misguided drive from - at the moment there is less competition for their base market. I'm not stating opinion, but fact when you look at the market figure break-up for MMO's.
However, there are a number of MMO's that are getting close to release, principally focusing on a smaller initial market with a view to expansion - eg. Vanguard, Conan, etc. that I believe will eat into the core population that WoW currently enjoys. There was an interesting post early in this thread referring to McDonalds - and basically that is what Blizzard has developed with WoW, an MMO that endeavours to cater to the largest group of people possible without really satisfying any of them.
WoW is likely to stay the broadest appealing of MMO's on the market - the future is for companies that see the niche that isn't yet catered for, nails that market, and builds on that success. At present I think that any MMO that aims for the "McDonald's" approach will fail (DDO anybody?). As I said at the beginning, I do keep coming back to WoW - please don't take me for a flamer - but you always lose out on quality in the end if your principle focus is on quantity.
Unfortunately I believe that WoW will suffer from the bland standardisation that effects all mass-marketed successful products. It is up to the consumer to support the quality 'niche' market when it develops and allow it to thrive if you want to overcome mass-market standardisation of your MMO experience.
I disagree that the 30% adjustment is a bad thing. If everyone can get everything quicker than Blizzard expected then there is no point in it being a "reward". If everything were easy then you would all be complaining that the game is easy mode, the fact that they adjusted to make it slightly (30%) more difficult is a good thing.
I really do not get people who complain about adjustments. They are the same people, it seems, who complain about certain classes being overpowered or underpowered. They do not seem to understand that with balance and adjustment the game becomes more fun for more people rather than more fun for fewer people or less fun for more people.
I think that Blizzard has done a wonderful job so far and I hope that they continue to adjust things and tweak things here and there to keep things fresh (or as fresh as they can) so the game does not stagnate and get abandoned.
I dont like Mcdonalds food. I try it just one time, and no I never again step in a McDonalds again.
When I start to play WoW, I just did because a friend just put some effort, for a year telling me, that this game is gonna be "The Game", I start play in the open beta, and I am still playing. I am not a raider player, I didnt like to do instances, this is boring....
I have 7 chars that hit level 60, some of with crap gear, but I still enjoy to play, but start to get bored.
I miss my old days at Ashen Empires game, maybe I come back to play there sometime. Or move to Warhammer online when this game release.
Ah let me tell my opinion about this 30% less honour. I dont care, I still can do some PvP sometimes and I will get this PvP stuffs in the future. The only thing I dont like is the queue system, is not fun wait around almost half hour to enter a BG.
WoW, Warhammer, Ashen empires and other games, its just a game. Some people transform this things in a way of life, but remember real life is more challenge, and much more fun.
PS.: English isnt my first language, so I could make some mistakes.
I just didn't think that much of the editorial.
This is the way I read it: WOW is the biggest game ever, MMORPG improves their net worth by having people active on their site, post a poorly written rant as an editorial, people respond and it doen't matter what they say. Oh and look, here I am falling for it.
If you took out every sentence that had a variation of "What is going on at Blizzard?" what would you have? I was tricked into wasting my time reading this article by the thought that this "review" might have some really interesting insight into the largest patch in a long time. Nope its just a PVP rant.
Don't get me wrong. I agree with the writer's feelings. But the content of this article could have been summed up with:
"What's going on at Blizzard? They overhauled the PVP to make it easier for non-raid people to get good stuff, then they pulled the rug out from under us!"
Even the tag line on the end: "Post if you want to complain too, or say anything, just post!" is annoying. Maybe the article was written poorly just to annoy people like me enough to post. "Just because I am paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get me"
Reviews of talent changes, the arenas, which characters got love and which ones not so much - that would be a review worth reading. If this is the quality of MMORPG articles, I'll be cancelling all my notifications soon.
It all started with a lantern, a sword, and a trap door...
That's maybe 2 or 3 hardcore days of playing of let's say a week for an
adverage player. Keep in mind that i'm saying if you only PVP.
30% increase is what... 2 or maybe 3 weeks for an adverage player. It's not that that bad.
So, now I have read the stuff posted after my post and I believe some folks are just not understanding what I am saying, though some definitely do. Let me try another tack.
What does MMORPG stand for? It is Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. To start off with, let's just remove the first three words. OMG, he is talking about role playing! Smash him down, Chew him up! Chill a minute and listen to what I have to say, please.
Taking the last word from the remainder that I left, I want to take this opportunity to remind everyone, this is a game. It is not a life or death struggle against the forces of light or darkness. It is a means to find some relaxation. As the tips say, take all things in moderation, including World of Warcraft.
Now that I have that off my chest, let's look at the two remaining words, role playing. To me, this does not mean that you must run around spouting prose at every combat opportunity to ensure that you have validated your right to "...smite those damnable creatures soundly about the head and shoulders until I have appeased the great Pumpkin's need for blood and destruction..." well, you get the point. Role playing on an MMO to me means taking my time, finding out new things, finding my equipment, taking what I get, immersing myself in the story that many of the "hundreds of programmers" (someone in a previous post) put together for our enjoyment. I am not looking for a hack and slash environment where it is all endless combat in order to get one piece of uber armor or some "Godhammer" weapon.
I think of an MMORPG as a different universe, one that I can partake in freely (as long as I pay my subscription) and one that I can allow myself to enjoy without the feeling that I must have the ultimate character. I mean think about it, if this was a real place (it is not for those of you who might not know that), would you and 4 of your closest friends think you could go and put the beat down on Onyxia? I think not. You would take along 39 of your friends and associates and anyone else brave enough to take the chance to kill one of the great creatures of your land. Rightly so! And then, once you got there, would you want the same Bastard Sword of Unbelievably Hard Hitting that everyone else that ever raided a dragon's lair got? I think not! I want something unique, something mine, something that is not something that every other Tom, Dick or Harry has in his pack.
Well, frankly, that last is not possible. I cannot see the game having 7.5 million unique items drop from one, albeit huge and old, dragon. So, because of the nature of the game, some duplication is unavoidable. However, that doesn't mean that because Johnny-Joe has the above mentioned Bastard Sword that I must have it. But too many people seem hung up on having to get some predetermined item or set. The beauty of an RPG is that you can take what you get and make the most out of it. Okay, so my weapon use level is 4 below mine, and the DPS is .6 less than yours, so what? I don't care if I can piss further than you can or not. Why do you? Can't you come up with some originality on your own? Find something that no one else has and step away from the cookie cutter Talent trees. You do know the people that come up with those had to think, right? Try it on, thinking is not that hard and it can be very rewarding. Maybe someday someone will post your new idea as the new best gear setup around.
You know, it all comes down to this. If you are playing the game and think that Blizzard screwed it up because you cannot get to level 40 in less than 10 hours of play time, you are looking at this whole thing wrong. You are setting yourself up for unhappiness. You are making it impossible to achieve happiness. Then, to top it all off, you post your reasoning as if it was the only way to think on forums in a vain attempt to STEAL OUR HAPPINESS. I say, let it go, take a breath, find something else to fill a portion of your life, like a girl/boyfriend, spouse, children, job, hobby other than online. Take some time to stop and smell the roses and stop trying to be a wet blanket thrown over the rest of us.
Have you ever heard the saying, "If you don't have something good to say, don't say anything."?
-=zg=-
-=ZG=-
Actually, if you are talking about a 30% increase in play time to achieve a goal and the base is say 3 days, that would mean it would then take 4 days. If you are talking about online time, then 72 hours would turn into about 96 hours. At say 6 hours per day (I would say that is hardcore, but I may be low) that is 16 days of play versus the original 12 days. I agree, not that bad.
-=zg=-
-=ZG=-
Slighted?! No way, not me! hehe Yeah right!
My account is cancelled. In fact: it was cancelled a couple days after 2.01 came out. Once I let it sink in that Blizzard is still all about hardcore players (who scream that x is too easy to get and y is too easy to get...), my second account cancellation was so easy. I took two people down with me too... 3 accounts activated 2 months ago because of boredom and just wanting to get well geared and do some PvPing.
And all the "hardcore" players who "put in more effort and deserve to be better [than me]"?! rofl My friends and I have been chain killing idiots in tier 2 epics since we hit level 30. Now that is fun! Like I've said before: I guess the afk fighting "skill" they learned for raiding doesn't apply vs. skilled players in PvP!
Have fun with your raiders Blizzard. I'm going to look for a game that doesn't reward dumbasses and no-skill-slackjaws.
If it's possible for you to edit your post on page 2, could you remove the long line towards the bottom. Apparently for some people its cutting off the right side of the page.
Thanks.
Well is made me pretty upset to find out about this when i had just come back to the game the Sunday before the made the Honor points 30% lower as if it wasnt low enough from the start.It's not just me but alot of people don't have the time to get 22k 40k or whatever the honor is needed to get better gear and weapon.
I mean not everyone who play's WoW can play 10+ hours a day i was lucky to get on for 4 hours a night and that is just to raid.Unfourtionatly i have decided to give up on WoW not really worth my time and effort because come TBC how will i ever reach 70 when it will be like going from 1-60 again.It took me a little over 6 months to ding 60 and about 2-3 months to get everything ready for end game.
So at first the last patch was very nice i was excited about the new honor system to re-activate my account (was gonna wait till TBC) but now i have just givin up all hope for Blizzard and WoW.So im gonna leave with saying this."GG Blizzard just made it even harder for people who can't be on 40+ hours a week to get gear and whatnot ready for TBC."
Lexin
Server - Detheroc (Gone Forever) =((
Just be happy your favorite MMO isn't ran by SOE, there has yet to be anything more catastrophic in the MMO industry then what SWG went through. Blizzard destroyed one thing, easy grinding. SOE destroy the whole game. Think about that, then praise the Blizzard Gods.
I understand where the author is coming from, people hate to have things given to them, and suddenly yanked away. Especially when Blizzard's justification seems to be more like... "you guys are gearing up too fast, which might make the game too fun, so we're gonna have to put a stop to that sort of nonsense right now"
It is just another reason among many others that I decided not to play WOW anymore. BC holds no interest for me... don't want to do it...only to have to do it all over again when the next expansion comes out. (there really should be a top level cap that never gets lifted..ever...)
MMO developers need to spend more time adding fun content in their games to keep us playing, and less on trying to find ways to throw timesinks into them which grind our souls into the ground.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Granted MMORPG is not really known to have the best articles, I
personally think that it's nice to see a different point of view. Most
sites like IGN and Gamespot will make generic reviews and comments on a
game while MMORPG will simply start a discussion.
If you do not agress with the editorial then simply explain why. The
stories here don't need to give more info then a Fanboi 1337 post.
Where did you hear that this site had more info then anyone else ? If I
seriously want more info, I usually consult wikipedia lol.. I found
more info about vanguard on that site then anywhere else O_o
0/10
Who pays you to write this junk? for that matter, who pays the people who run this site
what a fraud
The PVP epics remain an order of magnitude more accessible than they were pre-patch even with the 30% honor reduction - I'm a pretty casual player and I have saved up about 11k honor since the patch which will almost get me one epic armor piece. I am more than happy with this as it is far better than anything I could have grinded for solo in any other way.
People are acting as if they have a right to get the whole epic set before TBC launches but I'm pretty sure that was not what was intended.
Everyone is very excited about the new releases, and rightly so, it offers new content. But I see the same type of Blizzard grind. PvE grind an alt to lvl 70 to get the third best gear. PvP grind to get the second best gear. Grind the same new 25 max. man instance to get the very best gear. Then go back to PvP because boredom has set in again.
PvP or PvE grind, still the same boring content. Repetition is what is "killing" me on playing WoW. Grind for gold, grind for reputation (PvE/PvP), or grind for levels. The rewards are the same, get the best gear with the greatest amount of "repeat".
Blizzard claims they want more story line content play in the new releases. I still have not figured out how repetition adds to this type of content. Thorium Brothers like me better because I mined 7200 dark iron ore compared to the lazy bum who only killed 300 incendisaurs. They like me so much that they gave me better patterns that require me to grind more for the materials.
Patch 2.0.1: (PvP play) wash, rinse, repeat for second best gear in the game at just 30% slower than initially promised. Helps delay the "I am bored" syndrome. Probably the best thing for Blizzard to do, the change allows for equal grind time on PvP and PvE. And keeps players from quitting the game 30% longer.
how far along are/were you in your reputations with the three factions and pvp honor rank?
keep in mind, even if you'd pvp'd from the very outset, all your scores for the armor were just set to ZERO. so, if you were ALMOST to rank 7, 8, whatever, doesn't matter, you just got put back to ZERO.
did you take that into your account of the 30% being a GOOD thing for pvpers?
maybe hunting for rare sand in silithus as a major 'tweak' to world pvp is also your idea of keeping the game fresh? hunting for sand, in a desert... very incredibly fresh!
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
This is very frustrating to players. I know Blizzard sits atop its seven million player hill but really who makes the decisions over there? It seemed like players who enjoy PvP finally got a chance to catch up to all of the Tier 2-3 armor raid groups and actually compete on an equal playing field. Nope sorry, your play time will be extended. On the edge of Burning Crusade why make this type of switch to players? I guess my question is has Blizzard become to high and mighty on their player base to adjust things that quickly on them? I hate to mention that there are dozens of MMOs coming out in the next year or so, will WoW remain on top of that hill forever? Not with decisions like this one.
If you're really concerned about fairness, how is fair that PvPers could catch up in a few weeks to tier 2 and 3 people who have put months of effort in to get that gear? The honor adjustment sucks, I agree whole heartedly. However, it is more fair this way. Making it super easy to get the PvP rewards sort of trivializes all of the PvE guilds success.
Most if not all MMORPGs are constructed like a mountain. You start at the bottom and start climbing up. Once you arrive at the top you will be very glad and proud but when that fades away you will ask "what now?" There is a limited amount of options open to you when you are standing on top of a mountain. Most people will start to climb back down and leave the mountain behind.
Blizzards job is to delay you from reaching the peak and asking "what now?" Blizzard is very good at this. If the path up the mountain was a easy and fast one they would lose subscriptions faster; for a company, that is a bad thing.
The thing that is strange to many of us is that they are giving us a new challenge (60-70 with new RARE gear that will make EPIC HWL gear worthless) and at the same time dalaying the amount of time required to get gear that will be sold as scrap in a months time. It appears to be a stupid move on Blizzards part, unless we can trade in our old HWL gear for new level 70 stuff when we get there, but like i said above blizzards job is to delay you from getting it so don't hold your breath.
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
Some of these newer games coming out like Vanguard and the other V game sound like they'll be much less anal, and much more fun. Fun is the key word.
If any of this makes no sense, it's ok. I need to sleep. Forgive me.
https://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/Bleakmage