Dwarf women. Not gonna play a dwarf.

Babbuun · October 2006

If this game turns out good, I'm not going dwarf, which I initially planned. And it's because there has been a populist dump taken on Warhammer dwarf lore. As a young teenage nerd I played Warhammer as dwarfs and was quite intrigued by the amusing lore involved.

From my perspective lorelolling is spelling doom on the game. I lost complete interest in WoW after the draenei and blood elf paladins were announced. It's just that important to me.

The way the Age of Conan people have been explaining the memory-wipe shipwreck background to every player irritates me greatly as well.

I want a game with quality lore, not just a quality IP raped by the game developers. After all you don't read bad books either, do you?

checkthis500 · October 2006

so why aren't you going to play a dwarf? If it's because there are going to be playable Dwarf Women, it's already been shown that there is a female dwarf miniature that Games Workshop created a while back.

The idea of a warrior female doesn't divert from Warhammer lore, it's just a rarity. Which I'm sure will be the case in WAR as well considering they're making the dwarf women really look like dwarf women.

There's a few threads over on warhammeralliance site that talk about dwarf women in depth if you haven't seen them yet.

Hope that helps.

KillerJimmy · October 2006

Originally posted by Babbuun
From my perspective lorelolling is spelling doom on the game. I lost complete interest in WoW after the draenei and blood elf paladins were announced. It's just that important to me.

You mean tree hugging cows allying with undead didn't do it in WoW (or anything living for that matter)?! Undead who weren't undead, but "forsaken" didn't do it for you? hehe To me the expansion is just another bad joke in the long line of the new Blizzard "lore". I mean: evil Bloodelf Paladins?! ...oooookaaaaay Blizzard. Having a little trouble balancing alliance/horde unique classes I see! And demon draenei Paladins?! rofl

I liked the Blizzard North story telling back in Diablo 2. What has been done in WoW for lore is worthy of my chuckles. I will expect nothing from future Blizzard games as far as lore goes. If they have to rewrite 10 years of lore for the sake of "balance" or "class play uniqueness", they'll do it.

Babbuun · October 2006

at least 20% of the dwarf playerbase will be female dwarfs. The dwarf females are defined as reclusive and they haven't been seen or documented by other races (or other races can't distinguish them from the male dwarves*). The art we've been seeing from mythic is a cute(I hate to say it, but she's WoWish too) dwarf female vendor.

And yeh. The Forsaken could be considered the first nail in the WoW coffin, but at least they didn't have faulty lore, and their lore was sort of intriguing(and was already featured in The Frozen Throne).

I'm not playing a dwarf if every 3rd-5th PC is a cute and perky female. I'm going to go out and slaughter these incarnations of blasphemy as chaos or greenskin.

*There's been mention of dwarf females having beards as well in the lore

Edit: If they change the dwarf females to really masculine bearded ladies, I will play one.

checkthis500 · October 2006

Originally posted by Babbuun
at least 20% of the dwarf playerbase will be female dwarfs. The dwarf females are defined as reclusive and they haven't been seen or documented by other races (or other races can't distinguish them from the male dwarves*). The art we've been seeing from mythic is a cute(I hate to say it, but she's WoWish too) dwarf female vendor.

And yeh. The Forsaken could be considered the first nail in the WoW coffin, but at least they didn't have faulty lore, and their lore was sort of intriguing(and was already featured in The Frozen Throne).

I'm not playing a dwarf if every 3rd-5th PC is a cute and perky female. I'm going to go out and slaughter these incarnations of blasphemy as chaos or greenskin.

*There's been mention of dwarf females having beards as well in the lore

Edit: If they change the dwarf females to really masculine bearded ladies, I will play one.

Perhaps I should show you the screenshot of the dwarf female in-game. It's far from cute.

dwarf female back left

Now I highly doubt every 3rd or 5th PC is going to be playing that kind of character.

And the GW miniature isn't a bearded dwarf, it's a portly woman with long braided pig tails. I'll do my best to find a picture of the actual miniature so you can see that the females having beards thing was changed and thrown out as well by Games Workshop themselves.

Shaman64 · October 2006

hehe, that kinda like the mini me version of my grandmother.

checkthis500 · October 2006

Here you go. I found the games workshop miniature for a female dwarf hero. That too a while. Whew!

dwarf female

No beard

eumenidex · October 2006

I'm totaly unfamiliar with Warhammer Lore...but i still know Dwarven women just don't realy "belong" being a playable choice.

Am i a Little disturbed by the inclusion of dwarven women? Yeah, it just doesn't seem right.

Am i Going to allow that RP concern to cause me hesitation in Buying/Playing Warhammer? Absolutely not! Are you insane?

So they are bending the Lore by making new lore thats more friendly to an MMO, It is thier game and thier development after all. And To be honest, Is allowing Dwarven Women going to affect gameplay in any significant way? Probably not(Unless they have Racial traits and Gender traits that combine in some way to make then Overpowered..?). While its unfortunate that they take liberties that effectivly change lore, i don't feel its a big deal unless it has a Large effect on gameplay.

For Example, Its not at all like adding Paladins to the Horde or Shamans to the Alliance in WoW....That is a HUGE breach in lore and will have massive effects on gameplay. The ability to create a ridiculous race and gender combination just doesn't seem to spark the same concern.

Shaman64 · October 2006

Then where is this concept of bearded dwarf women, if someone can find out about this in the chronicles of warhammer history then we will forever hit mythic over the head with wooden legs, if not, then we were all wrong about the bearded fat women.

checkthis500 · October 2006

They changed between the two. When they first came up with dwarfs, the lore said that dwarf women had beards and weren't allowed to fight, etc. etc. Games Workshop changed that lore sometime down the road to dwarf women not having beards, and then they came out with the miniature Queen Helga. Or whatever I linked to. Both lore is correct, so it's up to mythic to choose which to pull from.

They suggested having female dwarfs without beards in the game, GW said sure, and they're in.

logangregor · October 2006

Originally posted by checkthis500

Originally posted by Babbuun
at least 20% of the dwarf playerbase will be female dwarfs. The dwarf females are defined as reclusive and they haven't been seen or documented by other races (or other races can't distinguish them from the male dwarves*). The art we've been seeing from mythic is a cute(I hate to say it, but she's WoWish too) dwarf female vendor.And yeh. The Forsaken could be considered the first nail in the WoW coffin, but at least they didn't have faulty lore, and their lore was sort of intriguing(and was already featured in The Frozen Throne).I'm not playing a dwarf if every 3rd-5th PC is a cute and perky female. I'm going to go out and slaughter these incarnations of blasphemy as chaos or greenskin.*There's been mention of dwarf females having beards as well in the loreEdit: If they change the dwarf females to really masculine bearded ladies, I will play one.

Perhaps I should show you the screenshot of the dwarf female in-game. It's far from cute.

dwarf female back left

Now I highly doubt every 3rd or 5th PC is going to be playing that kind of character.

And the GW miniature isn't a bearded dwarf, it's a portly woman with long braided pig tails. I'll do my best to find a picture of the actual miniature so you can see that the females having beards thing was changed and thrown out as well by Games Workshop themselves.

mmmm fat bottom girls make this rocking world go round

big girls keep you warm in the winter and provide shade in the summer

More cushion for the .... lol

Babbuun · October 2006

The lore change is a lorelol to me. Why change something that works?

On a side note, I'd play a dwarf female if it looked like Helga. I wouldn't play that rosy-cheeked chubby thingamajingle in the gameplay picture. Seems like I'm still going to have to go greenskin or chaos.

Mcgreag · October 2006

There is also this one:
Dwarf Cheerleader
But Bloodbowl has always been a bit unofficial so to speak

Babbuun · October 2006

Originally posted by Mcgreag
There is also this one:
Dwarf Cheerleader
But Bloodbowl has always been a bit unofficial so to speak

I'd buy that for a dollar. And play as it in WAR too.

checkthis500 · October 2006

Originally posted by Babbuun
The lore change is a lorelol to me. Why change something that works?

On a side note, I'd play a dwarf female if it looked like Helga. I wouldn't play that rosy-cheeked chubby thingamajingle in the gameplay picture. Seems like I'm still going to have to go greenskin or chaos.

well they changed the lore about 10 years ago for the beards and stuff, so you'd have to ask games workshop why they didn't want bearded ladies.

I'm the same way about the dwarf females. I like the way that a warrior like Helga looks, but I didn't care for the one in the screenshot. Hopefully there will be more of a variety.

No worries for me. I'll be playing empire. and I don't play female characters.

Mdkt0 · December 2006

Actually, the only non-undead race that doesnt procreate is greenskins

Nerror · December 2006

Eh, that whole thing with no dwarf women, or them having beards, is so outdated, and certainly not applicable to Warhammer as it is now. Everything that goes into WAR is approved by GW, so it's by definition official lore, because GW says it is. Period. Liking or disliking the official lore GW says Mythic can put in WAR is entirely up to the individual though.

Batavier · December 2006

Even though lore is pretty important in games, it sometimes cannot be avoided to change it a bit. That being sad, it's obvious that some companies ( *cough* Blizzard *cough* ) are doing it a bit too much, as has been mentioned in previous posts.

Now, about Warhammer having playable dwarven women, that's indeed a bit too much, but for me it's not a reason not to play the game. But the Devs need to be careful with what else they're going to change. Then again, it will be hard to find a game based on a well known universe where the lore hasn't been changed to fit the MMO. Sad but true.

Stza · December 2006

if it's good enough for GW, its good enough for me.

Grayh · December 2006

speaking of dwarf women... here is a "cute" screenshot of one..

http://www.war-rvr.net/images/rsgallery/original/dev19-female-dwarf-ironbreaker.jpg

Vipexx · December 2006

I really don't understand why people bother about this.. Yeah ok, it's against the lore.. so what? If you boycott a game only because such a little thing I'm glad you did, because then I won't need to listen to your whining ingame.

sjona · December 2006

i'd say we should be able to pick females with beard too! just for some wierd fetish.

but still, dwarf females are in the tabletop - such as helga! :P

Shaman64 · December 2006

Wish this thread wasn't still alive.But anyways. We've already shown that it is not against hte lore, dwarven women without beards.

GW can,if they wish for thier next edition of dwarfs, make a new story., thelling people tha t dwarven women have been emerging from their homes,and include them in a majority of the new army. If they did that. People would shrug and say I don't like it, but if it fits.Age of Reckoning is before or after the storms of chaos, and there is no reason why dwarven women, for no reason, have started making a sudden appearance. Maybe...if dwarven women are as able as the men when it comes to fighting, then they would be a welcome sight to help stem the greenskin invasion. In war you can spare no man or women.

Noctique · December 2006

The original poster goes on about how dwarven women are against the lore and are recluse and not documented, the major back lash to this is Helga, meaning from the start that his comments were flawed,

If you even bother to read a GW novel, try grudge bearer or Orc slayer were they have major parts of those books in the dwarven holds you'll find that Dwarven women are always there, its just there not in the Dwarvan armys, the only one to be so is Helga thus making her famous and an easy refrance.

If your not playing a dwarf because the lore is flawed I'd suggest that you get a bit more geeky than you claim to be and look a little more in depth.

Most people compare this game instantly to the table top game, were as you should realy look at it more like the pen and paper fantasy game (Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay)

Morskittar · December 2006

As far as WFRP, released in 1987, there was no official mention of bearded dwarf women. The oldest reference I can think of is Felix Jaeger, in Trollslayer musing that he'd never seen a dwarfish woman, and wondering if they had beards too. So, there we have at least 19 years of what GW displayed in Helga, and Mythic in WAR.

Earlier than that, in the proto-Warhammer years, dwarfs were basically an unformed straight port of Tolkien's dwarfs. So if he had 'em with beards, GW probably did as well. At best, they were undefined, making Mythic's (and GW's) "new" take not a change, but a clarification.

Nerror · December 2006

Tolkien never actually said dwarf women have beards, it's merely an assumption based on a bit of text saying they look like the dwarf men, but that could easily just refer to them being short and squat. No beard was mentioned explicitly. GW going away from the bearded women (years ago) was a good move IMO. I really doubt playing a bearded lady would appeal to most female gamers.

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