To the Beta Whiners:

Dakkanon · March 2004

First I just want to say I mean all this with respect to you all but I really must speak my mind. I will most likely contradict what I'm posting but...<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Not pointing fingers, for I only have 10.. But YOU need to relax. Themis has apparently found a problem with Ryzom. They delayed Beta, and didn't come through with what they said. Good reason to be upset. HOWEVER, look at this from their point of view:

A problem presented itself just as Beta was scheduled for release. They delayed it because they want to ensure the quality of the game to those who will be testing, and those of future customers. IF they were to release Ryzom before correcting this "problem" then it could open up a "Pandora's Box". We beta testers will find the game too buggy and unsuitable for playing, hence, a loss of business for Themis. Since they are holding off on Beta at the moment to fix whatever needs to be fix, they're making sure that the game is what it was meant to be, Enjoyable, addictive and fun.

To complain is understandable.. But dragging it on and on here on MMORPG isn't going to remedy this problem. Nor will it give you any answers. Saying "F this game, I'll play something else" is your prerogative, but you know well as anyone else, when Beta is released 90% of we 500 will be Playing/Beta testing it. Even those who cried, b!tched and whined about the delay.

If your all butthurt over this, I suggest you get a tissue and get over it. Beta will happen, just not when we had hoped. Yes, we deserve an answer from Themis on what the delay is, for they did accept we 500 Beta testers from MMORPG. Since they have not given an explanation is there bad. But there is a possibility that there is news on Ryzom's website. (I don't know, I haven't been there).

Basically what I'm saying is, don't cry about it on MMORPG. Cry about on Themis's Forum or Ryzom's, which ever you find. Being concerned about, and asking questions is cool. I'm just saying those who verbally bad mouths Themis, OR ANY OTHER GAME or Developers, needs to be a bit more mature and keep it to themselves.

Nuf said.

Sincerely.

BT #478

Marauder · March 2004

YAY! Another person who supports my point of view. Very good post, and I completely agree with you.

-[SoF]Marauder for Dark and Light

-Linkster for Delta Force: Land Warrior and Black Hawk Down

Jutsu · March 2004

I agree... but its a pain in the neck to wait 30 days... or half of 30 days for themis to talk to us and respond to our countless complaints.. I agree with the people are mad and think Themis is not thinking about us... and I also agree with what you said here...

I'm currently playing Lineage II.... Its keeping me sane... try it when it is open beta..

It will be a blast

(o'.')--------oo----('.'o)

Dakkanon · March 2004

Aye, I will be playing Lineage II. I did the Nob thing and saw that Lineage II was out at Best Buy. I bought it for 10 BUCKS!! What a deal.. I was so cought up in the moment that I failed to read the Bold print on the front of the package. But, I am in OB for Lineage two, and get a 10.00 Discount towards the Released version, so all in all, I think i'm good to go. I'm a huge fan of MMOs but there are a number of MMOs that came out and are due to come out that aren't really worth it. I'm not going to demote or belittle those games, but some are really bad! Lineage II looks worth while, as well as Ryzom. And also being an EQ Nut, EQ2 has already gotten my approval, and I have developed a post addiction for EQ2. Sad really, but whatev.

-Dakkanon
Ryzom BT #478
Horizon-White Dragon =Spirit Server=

_____________________________
"I'm not suffering from insanity, I'm enjoying it every moment"

hawkwind · March 2004

Hmm I thought the topic said "beta WINNERS" doh!

dum-dum-dum----dum.....AIIIIIIII!

Hawthorn · March 2004

Topic said "To the Beta Winners"

Neiana · March 2004

Well, I for one am going to wait. All you people that think L2 is a better game: PLEASE go play it and PLEASE don't come back here. I don't want this game clogged up with annoying, racist, sexist, whining, sniveling 5 year olds that really just want to play to stare at the back end of the Dark Elf.

THIS game is not cookie cutter by any means, THIS game is a unique piece of work. The ONLY problem so far, is THEMIS should have emailed the beta winners the information, rather than keeping things quiet.

- N

imasig · March 2004

Dakkanon,

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

You have a good post but I dont think Themis should be immune to criticism by any means. In my real life job I am a project manager. I have been on several software development teams. Whenever you take on a project you need to follow some sort of methodology which will divide the project up into phases. Throughout the life cycle of the project you have certain milestones you have to hit before you can move onto the next phase. The way you achieve these milestones is through hard work, effective planning, and good communication between management, staff, AND end users. In one of my first big projects before I was even a project manager my team was hired on to revamp an accounting system for an organization. We determined that we could get the project up and running by August of 99 with beta testing for certain departments starting in July. Unfortunately, beta testing didnt even start until October. Between months of July and October my team received several hateful phone calls and emails from our client. While it pissed us all off because we hadnt even been paid yet, we all knew they had the right to complain because they were still our client and we had missed our deadline and not communicated our problems with the deadlines effectively enough.

Themis deserves every bit of criticism it gets. Even from the people who are calling them morons because trust me when you get out on the job you might find moron being one of the nicer names you are called. Yes, we did win a contest for a game and I can see how that can be translated as we dont have the right to complain because we cant play a game. But the gaming industry is a competitive business just like any other. And a large percentage of the beta testers are going to become clients (and Im sure Themis is counting on this) so as a client we do have a right to complain. As a project manager I can tell you it appears Themis has not spent nearly enough time in the planning phase and it certainly hasnt established effective communication to its end users. If no one complains, Themis will not improve as a company on these issues.

Dakkanon · March 2004

Imasig,

I completely agree with what you're saying. However, the reason I posted this is for the fact that Themis will most likely not be visiting MMORPG often to find out what WE think and what WE say. My point being was for all the "crying" about Beta isn't going to solve any issues relating to WE 500 getting into Beta. I suggested sending letters to Themis direct. That why, if there were to be any answers, it would be to those who requested it from them.

Everyone has the right, since we were chose to BT, to complain and be irate. I'm bent, just like everyone else, especially since Ryzom is now going to Open Beta. Which I believe is open to whomever wants to test it before it's release? Maybe you can clear this up for me?

If it is indeed Open Beta as I believe; I will be playing Open Beta only... Unless ofcourse Ryzom is what it's all hyped up to be, then there's a good possibility I'll be giving Themis my business.

-Dakkanon
Ryzom BT #478
Horizon-White Dragon =Spirit Server=

_____________________________
"I'm not suffering from insanity, I'm enjoying it every moment of it"

Drayven · March 2004

I'm just happy to finally hear why I haven't heard anything, I was thinking I had filled something out wrong

Marauder · March 2004

Well, first off, we are not clients yet. In addition, I doubt many of the people posting will even say a word about any bugs they see in the game, unless it personally causes them problems. Sure, I can understand how they are frustrated with the situation , and they want to be in beta, but they are not communicating their thoughts in a mature way. Almost all of the posts are just random complaints and whining from people who have won the contest and 'must have the beta NOW!' If they have a problem with the way Themis is dealing with it, they voice it with Themis. If they want to post it in the forums, they express the problem, possible solutions, thanks for being able to play the beta at some point, and hopes for the game's improvement. The lack of these items shows also a lack of mature thinking. It also increases my fear that the SoR beta will have many people who are playing for themselves, and they do not try to improve the game. I DO greatly hope that these posters will see these posts and realize that they were acting harshly. I hope to see increased maturity and a change in many people.

-[SoF]Marauder for Dark and Light

-Linkster for Delta Force: Land Warrior and Black Hawk Down

prophit · March 2004

beta testing is a 2 way street we report bug and in return get a preview of the game for our own use/enjoyment thats the way it works. to suggest we should perform a service for a "for profit" company without compensation is just plain stupid. no one would beta test a game if it had no benifit for them just as a company would not have beta testing if it was not of benefit to them.

Prophit

Brahm · March 2004

Poor communication from game developers is not a good sign for me. In fact, its one of the factors that lets me decide to play or pass.

Herculezz · March 2004

Marauder to a company anyone and everyone is a potential customer! Whether not now or ever everyone is still a potential customer. The way themis has reacted or say not reacted to the situation through no communication is not a way a company deals with potential customers. It's just not good business. If anyone has ever worked in any kind of business then they should understand that complaining and whining is just something customers or potential customers do. Its just the way of things. Nobody likes someone who criticizes the customers. In a business whether it be retail or service there is the Business, The Customers and the Criticizers and trust me when i say The business nor the customers enjoy the criticizers. A business if it is a good one and understands how customer service works, actually enjoys complaints. It gives them something to fix and work on. If a company was never complained about in the aspects of customer service then unfortunately when the game goes live then that little spot that says customer service in everyones reviews would get a low low score. You can't improve on something that you don't know about! As far as beta goes when it comes to open beta stage as ryzom is going into then the beta testers going on and enjoying the game and not reporting bugs is something that a company expects. Thats why its open beta and anyone is allowed in!! It's may a time for Server Load Testing and what not. Also I don't think from the little amount of posts here in the forum compared to the 500 people that won beta spots you can combine them all into one classification as they!! Someone expressing there feelings about a company and their actions, in no way makes them immature. It's and opinion. And no one has the right to judge them mature or immature from their opinions. Thank you

Brahm · March 2004

Herculezz, I would say you are right on the money with your post. Kudos!

Herculezz · March 2004

Thank you it's just that i been in the Retail and Customer Service end of business for so many years now. From Truckstops to Call Centers to Now owning my own business. So i have much knowledge and experience on the subject!!

reddog000 · March 2004

Well throughout this thread, and forum for that matter, everyone has stated their opinion on what Themis is doing or not doing correctly. Does anyone know if Themis even reads these boards. I think not. How is Themis supposed to know the MMORPG.com Ryzom Beta Contest winners are upset about what is going on? All they know is that a few days after the contest they DID contact everyone who won the contest (at least I got an email). That's where it stands for them. I heard that they went to GDC this weekend so that would obviously take precidence over any thing to do with beta. YES, they did state in the email that we would be contacted in 48-72 hours. Well unfortunately because of timing and prior commitments we have yet to hear anything back about our beta spots. My opinion is that Themis should have at least threw an email to all future beta (contest winners) people telling them that because of such and such we will be delaying your beta account info for such and such time! After seeing the "Open Beta in April" advertisement for Ryzom pop up on the front page yesterday that obviously does not help our winners attitudes, including myself. In fact it feels like a slap in the face.

Again, even if there is not a shred of customer service up and running at this time it is ONLY COMMON COURTESY to let people know what is going on because it has definitely been longer than 48-72 hours. If they had the slightest inkling of not being able get the contest winners in within that timeframe why would you even give a certain timeframe to begin with. That is the problem I am having a tiff over. Even though they have no idea about the criticisms that are flying around in this forum it is only kind, smart, couteous, right, and smart business wise to notify people!!! If after the 72 hour mark no one was available at Themis to let people know it is their fault no one elses fault because they are the ones who sponsored the contest and gave a timeframe to the winners of the said contest.

I was a winner of the contest but I never have felt so bad for winning something AND THAT IS JUST NOT RIGHT no matter what anyone says!!! It was and still is Themis's responsibility to contact said people within their alotted timeframe (48-72 hours) end of story. If anyone says or thinks differently about what has happened then they are just flat out wrong. WHY? Because we were told so....very simple.....all the contest winners should be upset or at least very very disappointed about at least not hearing a damn thing about what is going on!

I for one will beta test this game because I entered the contest and it is my obligation to beta the game. If I did not want to beta Ryzom I never would have entered the contest. Just like all the other contests on this web site. If I do not think I will like the game I will never even attempt to enter the contest. But because of the current situation I would never put a dime of my money into this game. If the creators and developers of this game treat their beta testers like this how do you think you will be treated after subscribing to the game??? No one knows but I am not going to take that chance and all because of the lack of common courtesy towards their future players and customers! I think I am done!! Jesus H!!! I hate disliking game creators but I have no choice in this situation.

EDITED - Thanks for the heads-up hawkwind. Nevrax could also be the main responsible party for all the above but it does not matter both companies are involved with the game and they should both be responsible. So after reading this post please include Nevrax wherever Themis is mentioned.

hawkwind · March 2004

The statement RedDog makes pretty much sums it up, " ...but I never have felt so bad for winning something AND THAT IS JUST NOT RIGHT no matter what anyone says!!! "

Indeed, some posters here assume winning is no big deal, but to many of us it was an awesome thing and a true contest has some positive outcome.

I am wondering why Themis bears any responsibilty for the delay/failure to let us in since they are merely sponsoring the US version, not developing or supplying the French version we hoped to enter. Or did I miss read something?

Anyway -thanks for the valid points raised here.

reddog000 · March 2004

I wish all the contest winners could read my above post because it pretty much sums up what has happened. Not really upset just diappointed. There is a difference but not much!

Dakkanon · March 2004

Originally posted by reddog00

Well throughout this thread, and forum for that matter, everyone has stated their opinion on what Themis is doing or not doing correctly. Does anyone know if Themis even reads these boards. I think not. How is Themis supposed to know the MMORPG.com Ryzom Beta Contest winners are upset about what is going on? All they know is that a few days after the contest they DID contact everyone who won the contest (at least I got an email).

Themis reps or employees may or may not read this, however, WE 500 got our Email Via Admin of MMORPG. Themis contacted him, he contacted us. It's not the Admins responsibility to keep us updated, nor has he yet. Themis has done a poor job on Beta and communication

I heard that they went to GDC this weekend so that would obviously take precidence over any thing to do with beta. YES, they did state in the email that we would be contacted in 48-72 hours. Well unfortunately because of timing and prior commitments we have yet to hear anything back about our beta spots. My opinion is that Themis should have at least threw an email to all future beta (contest winners) people telling them that because of such and such we will be delaying your beta account info for such and such time! After seeing the "Open Beta in April" advertisement for Ryzom pop up on the front page yesterday that obviously does not help our winners attitudes, including myself. In fact it feels like a slap in the face.

So, who's your daddy?

Again, even if there is not a shred of customer service up and running at this time it is ONLY COMMON COURTESY to let people know what is going on because it has definitely been longer than 48-72 hours. If they had the slightest inkling of not being able get the contest winners in within that timeframe why would you even give a certain timeframe to begin with. That is the problem I am having a tiff over. Even though they have no idea about the criticisms that are flying around in this forum it is only kind, smart, couteous, right, and smart business wise to notify people!!! If after the 72 hour mark no one was available at Themis to let people know it is their fault no one elses fault because they are the ones who sponsored the contest and gave a timeframe to the winners of the said contest.

I was a winner of the contest but I never have felt so bad for winning something AND THAT IS JUST NOT RIGHT no matter what anyone says!!! It was and still is Themis's responsibility to contact said people within their alotted timeframe (48-72 hours) end of story. If anyone says or thinks differently about what has happened then they are just flat out wrong. WHY? Because we were told so....very simple.....all the contest winners should be upset or at least very very disappointed about at least not hearing a damn thing about what is going on!

I for one will beta test this game because I entered the contest and it is my obligation to beta the game. If I did not want to beta Ryzom I never would have entered the contest. Just like all the other contests on this web site. If I do not think I will like the game I will never even attempt to enter the contest.

Ermm, if a contest arrises and you know nothing about the game, I'm sure you'll enroll to see what the out come is. Hell, its a free game, is it not (if you win). Knowing or not knowing about a game, yet they give out Beta to a certain amount of people... I'm biting, as would anyone else.. Unless of course it's Pokie-Mon or something aimed at a younger generation.

Reddog00, Don't ask me why I felt like picking on you... I don't really know why.

But I agree with you. Themis and or Nevrax has done a crap job on letting anyone know what was going on with Beta. They did Cheat us, they did Lie to us. I'm also sure that the developers of Ryzom didn't contact Craig(?) Admin of MMORPG, who has done a bang up job of MMORPG. As for the Admin of MMORPG, I give you on keeping us posted on what was going on, and it sucks that Themis has left even you out of the loop.

Personally, I'm seriously contimplating on skipping Open beta and turning my back on Ryzom completely. It may be a great game, but considering how well Themis has done with us this far, I'm sure Ryzom isn't that great.

As nefarious and erroneous as Themis is, I'll be surprised if Ryzom lasts more then 6 months.

Oh, and as I started at first, "I may controdict myself"... well... Does anyone have a tissue I can borrow?

-Dakkanon
Ryzom BT #478
Horizon-White Dragon =Spirit Server=

_____________________________
"I'm not suffering from insanity, I'm enjoying it every moment of it"

reddog000 · March 2004

Posted by Dakkanon in response to my post:

(First part of post by Dakkanon) Themis reps or employees may or may not read this, however, WE 500 got our Email Via Admin of MMORPG. Themis contacted him, he contacted us. It's not the Admins responsibility to keep us updated, nor has he yet. Themis has done a poor job on Beta and communication

What are you talking about??? No where in my entire post did I even come close to mentioning the Admin for this site!!! What post did you read??? Or did you read and just not comprehend. Read the first paragraph that this remark pertains to and tell me anything in your rebuttle that is in that paragraph. Absolutely nothing!!! And I know that the Admin from MMORPG.com heard from Themis and just forwarded the info to the winners but get your facts straight pal....the from address on the email the winners received is ryzom@themis-group.com. Now unless Craig (I guess the Admin of this site) pertains to any part of that email address you better look before you speak! The damn Admin from MMORPG.com has abolutely nothing whatsoever to do with what is going on. What are you talking about??? And you said, "Themis has done a poor job on Beta and communication"....what the heck did you think my post was about. You just rebuttled your own statement with that remark!!!

(Part 2 of post by Dakkanon) So, who's your daddy?

Where and what does that remark pertain to in my post??? About the ad that showed up I spoke of and it feeling like a slap in the face??? If that is what you were talking about the ad just makes Themis look like they have no idea what the heck is going on. You tell me that if the game was pushed back (which I have heard for about 2 weeks now) they did not have time to alter or redesign the ad with the new release schedule or even pull the ad all together. Again it shows that Themis really does not care what their possible future customers know about their product. Does it not??? Hell half the sites on the web still show April as the release date. If they did not inform their promoting sites tell me they are doing a great job??? No they are not which is exactly what my post was about!!! Again they might not have a PR department but if a product I was making was delayed for any reason whatsoever the current customers and future customers would know right away about the situation. Obviously Themis does not really care apparently. I definitely know who my daddy is I just feel sorry for yours. Do not speak until spoken to. Know what you are saying before placing foot in mouth.

(Part 3 of Dakkanons response) Ermm, if a contest arrises and you know nothing about the game, I'm sure you'll enroll to see what the out come is. Hell, its a free game, is it not (if you win). Knowing or not knowing about a game, yet they give out Beta to a certain amount of people... I'm biting, as would anyone else.. Unless of course it's Pokie-Mon or something aimed at a younger generation.

Where in my post does this remark deserve to even be said??? Why are you trying to tell me what beta contest I would and would not sign up for??? You are crazy. How can you even say that??? I explained my beta signup preferences!!! If you do not like them then just don't pay attention to them! Definitely do not try to tell me what betas I would sign up for. I would never sign up for any game just because it was free!!! Where in the heck did you get that from??? That would be like someone giving me free food and me having to eat it. But I would not eat the food if I did not like it just because it was free. What the heck does free have to do with anything??? I never even put that word in my post. Please take note that your foot is quickly going deeper into your throat.

The only thing correct and factual in your entire post is you had no idea why you wanted to pick on me!!! Well now you can because I gave you some. Please comprehend before you try to ammend because not only does it make me look bad it makes you look worse. Sorry to pick on you but you deserve it after what you posted!!! You can take your foot out and breathe now!!!

EDITED: My entire post was based off factual happenings. If you do not think this has happened then you better open your eyes. I do not see anything in my original post that is false. Everything I stated is fact!!! To the Admin I wish to apologize for making someone think you were at fault. I do not know where or why it was done but it was never in my post just Dakkanon's.

Dakkanon · March 2004

Wow, no sense of humor there Red.

Red my reply closely again, and again till you realize I wasn't picking on you AFTER:

________________________________________

THIS

it was just a little fun, and it wasn't ment personally. Plus, I didn't attack you, unless of course you find me asking who's your daddy was as an attack, rather then a joke.

In regards to Admin. Themis contacted Craig. Craig Held the contest on his site. Contest over. Admin contacts us, saying it's over and you've WON! wait 48-72 hours. Silence. More silence. People whining, crying and b!tching about beta. Themis is where? doing what? Themis left us all in the dark, even Admin, or so I trully believe. I also said that Craig, Admin, was doing a bang up job (a great job), and I gave him two thumbs up.

so red, please, read carefully. Know that I was picking on you only for fun. I didn't belittle you, or argue with you. The only joke I found and remember was the Whos your daddy remark. RELAX dud, get over it . Key word here is READ. say it with me now, READ. Good job, you desirve a bisket (now i'm attacking )

-Dakkanon
Ryzom BT #478
Horizon-White Dragon =Spirit Server=

_____________________________
"I'm not suffering from insanity, I'm enjoying it every moment of it"

reddog000 · March 2004

No there is no harm done. I do not take it personally but I just wanted to reiterate my original post which was all true. I just did not understand how anyone could take it as an attack whatsoever on the MMORPG.com Admin who I never ever mentioned and never thought of during my post. When you broke down my post you basically critiqued every portion to your liking. Well that was not what the post was for and also not what the post was about. All I did was state the facts and then give my opinion like every other person who is disappointed with the way things are shaking out. Why single anyone out especially me when my post was very fair and very well thought out.

Again no harm done Just would be nice to hear something about the Ryzom beta this week!

Dakkanon · March 2004

RedDawg,

-Dakkanon
Ryzom BT #478
Horizon-White Dragon =Spirit Server=

_____________________________
"I'm not suffering from insanity, I'm enjoying it every moment of it"

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