Vanguard = Only EQ1 Players Welcimed..Everyone else leave now!

M1sf1t · December 2006

Is it me or do I see this game as just being a direct copy of EQ1 + updated graphics. All these so called dungeons that you can camp in and log off will more then likely be camped to death by large raiding guilds and gold farmers. Having visted the forums in Vangaurd I see the elitist mentallity already forming in the game. People who want nothing but grinding and raiding in the game and do not want any other game style to be allowed. Crafting seems like a joke in this game because well these same raiders do not want any other means for people to gear up. So more then likely crafting will never be as good as let say EvE or EQ2. It looks like this game will be a niche market for EQ1 elitist holdouts to call home. A game were if you are not a former EQ1 player you will not be welcomed at all.

busdriver · December 2006

What you said is pretty much what I've gathered from beta testers. Still, there is a BIG crowd waiting for updated version of EQ1. Allthough, why anyone would want that is beyond me.

Tayem · December 2006

you think crafted stuff is good in eq2?? If you think that then i doubt theres much chance you'll get dissapointed by what crafters can churn out in vanguard.

Anyway its said the very best stuff will come from the cooperation of all 3 spheres...say you parley with the king and get a legendary hilt of whatever and then raid a dragon and get a dragon gall stone or something which you then craft into an blade and then fuse em together at a crafting table deep down in some dungeon to create the "uber sword of uber uberness" (TM).

qwepoi · December 2006

I have noticed this group of elitists aswell, and I do agree that there are those who want vanguard to be everquest + updated graphics, but I really don't think you should form an opinion of the game based on these people. These people really are a minority of the MMO community and sigil knows it, imo they simply couldn't afford to make a game which only attracts them and as they say over and over...they aren't.

You say crafting seems like a joke because the elitists don't want to aquire items from anything but raid encounters, again, dont listen to these people, it just ain't gonna happen. IMO crafting will be a huge part of vanguard, much more than it was in eq2(haven't played eve so i wouldn't know about that). From the sounds of things it actually will be a viable alternative from adventuring, for example there is actually tradeskill specific gear you can aquire, granted i think there were a few items in eq2 that added some stats to tradeskilling skills( a grand total of about 6 items gamewide from what i recall) but we're talking hundred of different armour sets specifically made for tradeskilling. Tradeskillers can also create ships and i believe houses, and probably many other things i haven't yet heard of . I could go on and on about tradeskilling but that would be derailing this thread so ill just say that from what i've heard, tradeskilling in vanguard is absolutely not going to be a joke.

Honestly I can't see that many legitimate similarities between eq and vanguard, i say legitimate because half the stuff people say is absolute crap eg vanguard is all raiding etc. The main similarity i see between the two games is slow leveling, but you have to take into account how big vanguard is, its easily bigger than any other mmo has been at it's launch, so with all this content, why would anyone want to level up really fast? they would just be missing out on half the content. They aren't making the leveling up slow just for the sake of it, they are encouraging people to experience the whole game.

Another similarity is the death penalty which is by no means as harsh as eq's but still enough to make you want to avoid dying, which IMO isn't a bad thing. take eq2 for example, where death is basically meaningless, people will suicide just to get from point A to point B faster, it happens all the time, if for example you are at point A, and are trying to get to point B, and the revive point happens to be close to point B, people will die on purpose to save the a few minutes of travel. Another example is 'death strats' as theyve been coined, which are used by some people on the harder encounters in the game, when someone is running low on power, they simply suicide and run back to the fight at full power. I just don't see how using death to make things easier for you is ok, now don't get me wrong i'm not the type that wants to have wires attached to my nipples that give me electric shocks everytime i die, but i think that death should be something you actually want to avoid.

wow this got really long...i'll just finish up by saying: don't listen to people who say vanguard will be a prettier eq, form your own opinion by reading faq's, dev interviews, also, the NDA should be dropped in a month or two, when that happens people will really be able to form their opinions on the game, and i have a feeling that the people you mention will be sorely dissapointed.

Jehryn1982 · December 2006

ALthough it is true that the VG forums are swamped with Elitist EQ1 players (uber hardcore CR, camp camp camp, etc..) this does not mean VG itself is a reflection of their wishes.

Anofalye · December 2006

Originally posted by busdriver
What you said is pretty much what I've gathered from beta testers. Still, there is a BIG crowd waiting for updated version of EQ1.

You think?

I personnally think that this crowd of "EQ1" players is extremely thin, not even sure it is worthy of a crowd title. Most have passed on to something else, like RL or other games. Some are still playing EQ1 and wouldn't quit, some are either in WoW, EQ2 or something else...and some other are just busy with RL. As a "veteran" myself, I let my fellow EQ1 folks dream, and I would encourage them, but when a company start to believe this, I think it is problematic. I see no problem with *insert old necro's friend name* believing in the old time and encouraging him, but when I see Sigil doing the same, I ask myself questions.

Some peoples point out that as long as they cater to the group/raid peoples. Saddly, in a simplistic system where there is an ultimate player-set, you can only cater to 1 player type. Since every raider is a grouper and most groupers aren't raiders, if you say you cater to group/raid, in fact you cater solely to raiding while fluffing the groups comments.

See, 20% of the rewards are EXCLUSIVE to raiding. Raiders also happen to be groupers, so they will get 100% of the rewards potential, while non-raiders start at 80% or less. This game has only 1 appeal, it is to raiders. Weither they admit it or not.

Raid-free servers would correct that aspect, but if there are no wishes to correct it, you can take a horse to the water, but you can't force him to drink.

EliasThorne · December 2006

Well, from what I've seen it seems the only EQ crowd have been let down I guess, while they're still there they're mostly bumbling about mumbling into their beards and generally being unhappy.

The good news however is that its made the game much more accessible for the rest of us.

Casanova48 · December 2006

I agree with you to a point. It seems VG might be for raiders but almost any other popular fantasy MMO out there such as WoW or EQ2 imo are raid-orienated as well. It's sad though that they wont make a game that doesnt involve raiding. Because what happens is you have guilds take over servers and they run through everything as quickly as possible just to be the best. While most gamers just wanna enjoy the content and experience what the game has to offer. Still VG looks very good to me even though it does seem to have uber guilds from EQ. This is the best game coming out right now for me, until eventually some company decides to have the whole game towards ppl who cant play 24/7 and who have RL's.

SilentWisper · December 2006

I can see your point.

I am really looking forward to playing Vanguard, I beleive it is the best MMORPG that will come out for the next few years.

Don't go to the Official Vanguard forums, they are filled with Elitist raid only junkies.

I stay away from those forums because I find they were putting me off playing Vanguard, any post that is anti-raid or casual/solo freindly is ripped appart by a load of rabid posters.

They seem to think they control the direction of the game and that anybody who wants to play the game differently from them is a noob and a loser.

I must say that posts from the pro-RAID players have made me decide that if Vanguard offers the option a raid free ruleset I will play on that server just so I don't have to play with elitist raid junkie type of player.

Don't give up on Vanguard, I think you will find it a fantastic game with many many cool features (raiding not one of them).

SilentWisper · December 2006

One of the systems Vanguard will use to stop uber guilds camping the raid bosses is ...(can't remember what they call it)

However it works like this:-

Your group/raid enters the dungeon, the server now tracks your group and dynamically spawns encounters and bosses that are locked to your group. Other groups can help you kill these mobs but they cannot loot them also you don't have to wait for a spawn timer on a boss because when you reach his lair he will spawn for your group only.

I do wonder what will happen if 2 or more groups arrive in the lair at the same time, will we have 2+ identical bosses spawning...

matraque · December 2006

I played EQ1 for years and i can assure you guys... VG is NOT, i repeat NOT, EQ1 with updated graphics.

The people hoping/wanting it to be that are not gonna play it. Good ? Bad ? I donno.

Unknown · December 2006

Originally posted by SilentWisper
One of the systems Vanguard will use to stop uber guilds camping the raid bosses is ...(can't remember what they call it) However it works like this:- Your group/raid enters the dungeon, the server now tracks your group and dynamically spawns encounters and bosses that are locked to your group. Other groups can help you kill these mobs but they cannot loot them also you don't have to wait for a spawn timer on a boss because when you reach his lair he will spawn for your group only. I do wonder what will happen if 2 or more groups arrive in the lair at the same time, will we have 2+ identical bosses spawning...

Haha get a bunch of groups together and havea monster mash.

Imzeweiner · December 2006

Well, I guess I would be considered one of those hold-outs hoping that VG will be similar to EQ1. I would certainly not call myself an elitiest or a raider. In fact, I played EQ1 for several years and never really did the huge raids as I was in a pretty small tight knit guild. I still enjoyed the game quite a bit though.

After I finally left EQ1, (for the final time) I played just about all of the other big name MMORPGs and had some fun doing so. DAoC, WOW, EQ2, COH, ect ect. But, I still have the fondess memories of EQ1.

I personally liked the camping aspect of the game. To me, it was fun going to Guk and shouting for a group, camping the frenzied ghoul or something similar. I liked the ability to go back to lower level dungeons by myself and try to get gear to sell or 'twink' my lower level friends or characters. You can't really do that in any of the games out today.

I don't think there is anything wrong with people wanting to see VG be like EQ1. Remember, EQ1 was a very popular game, the biggest of its time, its spawned today's market.

You dont have to change everything to have a good game, all of the other MMORPGs out there have done it already.

When you read the forums over on Vanguard, sure you will see people talking about wanting an EQ1 sequel. It doesn't mean they are elitest or its all about raiding ect. There are quite a few things about EQ1 that I personally think add so much more to a game then what you see today.

I would like to see a game that has more emersion then whats out right now. I would like to see a game which a penalty for death, it makes you want to avoid it, it adds to the excitement and the danger of exploring. I would like to see a game which travel is tough in the beginnning. It makes it feel more realistic, and it adds to the sence of discovery of acomplishment. Back when EQ first came out, the majority of people had no idea what the wizard spires were for. Everyone ran from place to place or took the boat, it was fun and intesting seeing different races from far off places in your town, it meant something.

I would like to see a game where people can actually gather in a dungeon and see other groups fighting side by side. I want to be able to choose where I go and what I fight, and not have to do the same dungeon over and over from start to finish just to get to one Mob I want to take out.

I would like to see a game where I don't know exactly what my group is going to pull or how hard each mob will be by looking for arrows above their head or how many targets light up when I click on one. Where is the sence of adventure in that?

If these are the type of things that you would consider elitest EQ1 wishes then so be it. EQ1 was a great game, why not make a sequel to it?

[Deleted User] · December 2006

The user and all related content has been deleted.

metalcore · December 2006

As some of the developers have played other games like Eve and WoW, I would reckon VG will not be an EQ1 clone.

Brad himself has said VG will not be an EQ1 clone with nicer graphics and I believe him.

Mardy · December 2006

People calling Vanguard a raider's game have no idea what the game is about. Sigil has changed the game quite a lot this past year to appeal to more than just the Everquest1 players. So I have no idea why the OP has to post this here, and I believe he posted the same thing on Vanguard's forum. It's kinda ridiculous to say Vanguard = only EQ1 players welcomed. But hey, whatever floats your boat. If you choose to not give this game a try due to what some people said it's for "raiders" only, then so be it.

Personally, Vanguard right now is one of the few MMO's out there that will have more things to do than level & raid, which is what *gasp* WoW is about for the past 2 years. But yet everybody praised that game like it's God. Yes I played it, I enjoyed it, I raided a lot. But to say WoW isn't a raid game is being nieve, because I'd like to know how you advanced your characters past lvl 60 in the past 2 years. And no I'm not counting the BC expansion or the recent patch.

I don't know why people always think a game has to be perfect to be successful. No games are perfect, it just has to be fun and have plenty to do so people don't get bored and look elsewhere. Look at all the crap people put up with in WoW, first year being lack of endgame content and server crashes + instance crashes. Second year being getting bored at raiding. But yet it was still a fun game for many people.

If you choose to skip Vanguard over what some people claim to be for EQ1 players only, or somehow it's a raider's only game, then so be it. Personally I'd suggest waiting until after the game launches to find out the real deal about the game from a retail game.

TommyKHart · December 2006

The elite on the forum are not in beta. Alot of them will not like vg when its comes out. Just ignor them.

There will always be ppl in a mmo you won't like. It's lucky telon is a big place so you don't have to go near them.

Ngeldu5t · December 2006

Originally posted by Imzeweiner

Well, I guess I would be considered one of those hold-outs hoping that VG will be similar to EQ1. I would certainly not call myself an elitiest or a raider. In fact, I played EQ1 for several years and never really did the huge raids as I was in a pretty small tight knit guild. I still enjoyed the game quite a bit though.
After I finally left EQ1, (for the final time) I played just about all of the other big name MMORPGs and had some fun doing so. DAoC, WOW, EQ2, COH, ect ect. But, I still have the fondess memories of EQ1.
I personally liked the camping aspect of the game. To me, it was fun going to Guk and shouting for a group, camping the frenzied ghoul or something similar. I liked the ability to go back to lower level dungeons by myself and try to get gear to sell or 'twink' my lower level friends or characters. You can't really do that in any of the games out today.
I don't think there is anything wrong with people wanting to see VG be like EQ1. Remember, EQ1 was a very popular game, the biggest of its time, its spawned today's market.
You dont have to change everything to have a good game, all of the other MMORPGs out there have done it already.

When you read the forums over on Vanguard, sure you will see people talking about wanting an EQ1 sequel. It doesn't mean they are elitest or its all about raiding ect. There are quite a few things about EQ1 that I personally think add so much more to a game then what you see today.
I would like to see a game that has more emersion then whats out right now. I would like to see a game which a penalty for death, it makes you want to avoid it, it adds to the excitement and the danger of exploring. I would like to see a game which travel is tough in the beginnning. It makes it feel more realistic, and it adds to the sence of discovery of acomplishment. Back when EQ first came out, the majority of people had no idea what the wizard spires were for. Everyone ran from place to place or took the boat, it was fun and intesting seeing different races from far off places in your town, it meant something.
I would like to see a game where people can actually gather in a dungeon and see other groups fighting side by side. I want to be able to choose where I go and what I fight, and not have to do the same dungeon over and over from start to finish just to get to one Mob I want to take out.
I would like to see a game where I don't know exactly what my group is going to pull or how hard each mob will be by looking for arrows above their head or how many targets light up when I click on one. Where is the sence of adventure in that?

If these are the type of things that you would consider elitest EQ1 wishes then so be it. EQ1 was a great game, why not make a sequel to it?

I feel the same way and I 've never played EQ 1,to the OP and to all those who believe VG will be for Elitists please ignore some of the comments on the Offiicial forums by the Ubers of Uber Uberness.This game has a great potential with a lot of things to do,check Vanguard Spheres website there are lots of great guilds there and great folks too,feel free to ask some of your unanswered questions and you won't be flamed for that

Tutu2 · December 2006

I personally can't stand camping. EQ1 had great depth and everything, but that was the one thing I saw as a huge flaw in that game and quit. I just see it as a big waste of time, just sitting there waiting for some damned named monster to pop up. I can't comprehend how many players can simply stand there for hours on end, killing trash monsters while they wait . That's not my idea of fun, that's just a cheap, unimaginative time-sink to keep your subscription. If this aspect is big in VG I'll probably give it a miss. I want dynamic! I want to fight epic battles that actually impact on the game world or contribute to building a player-made city or town, not sit on my virtual butt and waiting for a pixel monster to pop out of nowhere. I'm hearing VG is going have this sort of stuff in the future expansions or something...we'll just have to wait and see how it all turns out ey.

Mardy · December 2006

By the way, according to OP's post in another thread, apparently he got in beta and he's keeping his pre-order with a smile. So no worries, even this guy saw the light beyond the fog of old beta leaks and complaints from people that have never tried this game.

M1sf1t · December 2006

Originally posted by Mardy

By the way, according to OP's post in another thread, apparently he got in beta and he's keeping his pre-order with a smile. So no worries, even this guy saw the light beyond the fog of old beta leaks and complaints from people that have never tried this game.

Yeah because I tried the game and realized those elitist folks on the forums are not getting EQ1+updated graphics when they play VG. If you want a EQ1 clone I'd suggest you look elsewhere IMHO. Oh and anyone who pre-orders gets a beta key. Not a big secret as it's states on the VG FAQ that BETA 4 = Pre-Order people being allowed into the game. If you want to give it a test run pre-order and get your key.

QforQ · December 2006

Originally posted by M1sf1t

Originally posted by Mardy

By the way, according to OP's post in another thread, apparently he got in beta and he's keeping his pre-order with a smile. So no worries, even this guy saw the light beyond the fog of old beta leaks and complaints from people that have never tried this game.

Yeah because I tried the game and realized those elitist folks on the forums are not getting EQ1+updated graphics when they play VG. If you want a EQ1 clone I'd suggest you look elsewhere IMHO. Oh and anyone who pre-orders gets a beta key. Not a big secret as it's states on the VG FAQ that BETA 4 = Pre-Order people being allowed into the game. If you want to give it a test run pre-order and get your key. Just to clear up any confusion, Beta 5 = Pre-orders and mass invites from the forums. Beta 4 is still closed beta and testers are being invited from the official game forums.

NeuroXl · December 2006

i forget the gaming website which states this, but they were right on the money with this assesment ...

Vanguard is being highly publicized, and hyped, mostly by the people looking forward to the game, and then in turn people who hear the former group's hype ..... Sigil themselves havent really brought out a huge marketing engine as of yet ...

this (hype) is bad for two reasons ... the first is, the hype is usually wrong ... expectational gamers will be awaiting a game that is different in nature, a game touted by uninformed hypers to be the next big thing .. they will think in terms of flash ... grandeur .. speed, action, violence ... its what hype is all about and was born to promote ... that 80's flash ...

and when that game isnt delivered people will become angry and blame sigil for poor development ... maybe even sony ....

the game in fact is almost an eq clone but a " grown up" where as eq could be considered the child ... its more mature

the game mechanics themselves are more organized ... categorized, its geared towards those gamers who want a cultivating experience ... one thats more fastidious, and delicate... one that offers more savoring virtual world mechanics... ... that type of game is NOT a game for everyone ...

there wont be flash .. and grandeur... , there wont be an amplitude of action ... it will be ( for lack of a better word ) a SLOW game ... in comparison, of what's out there today ...

so because of misaligned expectations within people which are the result of hyping .. i think a lot of people will misunderstand the game .. and not only that , give a negative tone of opinion about the product in beta .. and more importantly .. when its released ...

a negative aura sigil will not be able to shake ...

MX13 · December 2006

The OP post is the biggest pile of #$%^&* I've seen in these forums in some time. NONE of that is true, it's only bashing bull.

TheICE · December 2006

lol thats whats so funny if vanguard is awesome sigal will get the credit and if it fails then of course sony will get bashed and they have nothing to do with it

M1sf1t · December 2006

Originally posted by MX13

The OP post is the biggest pile of #$%^&* I've seen in these forums in some time. NONE of that is true, it's only bashing bull.

Go visit the forums and tell me there is not a rather vocal anti-new MMO player crowd that only wants a EQ1 clone. These element of players is what I was referring too. According to the faq this game wont be EQ1 clone but there is a large core of people on their forums who want it to be so. Will these people hold influence over the devs after release? Only time will tell but the truth is if you say that you played EQ2, or WoW for example and want certain design elements that were consider to be fun and non-repetitive in those games you'll be roasted and eaten alive on those forums. Popular and in thing on those forums is to bash WoW and Eq2 and talk about how great EQ1 was and still is etc... How resistant are the devs at Sigil at giving a unruly ex-EQ1 mob of players what they want over keeping the game on course to have it be what they want it to be which is not a EQ1 clone? That is what worries me the most.

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