Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
What kind of loot rules do you like in a rading guild if join one or are in one ?
M1sf1t
Member UncommonPosts: 1,583
1.) Loot council - I've tried being in guilds that use loot councils and found out it just meant "We gear up our friends and officers and even friends in other guilds first before you !" type of system. There was no point in being the first person to the raid zone or doing anything for these types of guilds. It was all just a ass kissing contest IMHO. You got loot based on if the GM or officers liked you or not. Never because you worked your ass off to be on time to raids every raid and stayed to the end or because you did your job etc...
2.) Merit Based Systems - I've tried guilds that use "merit based systems" but all it was is just another version of #1. nothing worse then seeing someone who has always shows up late or raids only 1 day a week get loot. Especially when you've put aside time in RL to raid and always show up.
3.) DKP / DKP zero sum/ Or other slightly modified DKP systems - The only system I've ever felt that I truely liked because it rewarded me for the time I spent in a raid and the dedication I showed to raiding content with a guild. It allowed me to track my points and rewarded me for being the active raider I used to be unlike the other systems. I new that if I attended raids and saved up my points I would get a chance at a item over the "LOLZ my friend is the GM so i get loot" crowd.
Anyone else feel the same way ?
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
Comments
That being said, a Zero Sum DKP system is the ONLY type of system I would (and have) participate in. it wasn't exactly the Zero Sum system but a modified version of it. Very well done. Very well balanced. You ALWAYS had a chance to win unless you were in the negative.
I'd have to say 0 sum dkp is prob the best system all around, if you have a willing participant to keep good track of the dkp.
Merit system is my favorite though but I see how many can think it's an Arse kissing contest. With the growing trend of MMO's making loot BOP, no-trade, and class specific it makes it a hellofa lot easier for raid guilds to distibute loot. If you have a truely fair loot council merit systems can be the best especially for laxed raiding guilds without hard set rules. People that come home from work and log on to raid right away should'nt be penalized for showing up 5 mins late otherwise you find your guild either all east coasters/west coasters/earuo..ect ect ect... which really dampens the fun for me in any MMO. I like my variety in people.
The worst thing for raid guilds is the whiners about loot.....if it's not dropping for your class especially. I found alot of times people will want loot that isnt even good for their class just becuase it's fabled, elite or whatever...to these folks all I have to say, "Here's your tissue if you have an issue". Alot of folks also fail to realize that your gonna want to equip out your MT, MA and healers first before any support or DPS class, thats why certain people will constantly get upgrades while others do without. It's best to fully eqip your Main tank and Main assist before any other person in the raid...but make it clear who these folks are and make sure their availability is set in stone for your raid schedule.
Theres my 2 cents.
What other games besides WoW even has raiding?
A Work in Progress.
Add Me
Snakey: EQ, EQ2, Vanguard, CoH, DAoC, WAR all have/will have raiding. I never heard of a MMO that doesn't have either raiding or PvP enforced on you.
Personnally, I can't stand raiding anymore. While I was raiding, I was allergic to dkp-ish system as they destroy commitment and efficiency while rewarding attendance, the guild don't care to take time or stall, as long as peoples are there...
I always favored a pure /random, failing to get that a loot council could work, depending on who is doing it and what is their goal; I would be critical and asking them to justify a LOT all the time(except if I am connected in anyway personnal, in which case I STFU and go in my corner, since I can't be neutral and just can't judge that) , but if the LC award it to a secondary toon while a main one ask it, if I find a choice they make silly or unappropriated, as you see, I ain't afraid to be vocal and any LC value keeping me quiet so they make sensitive choices while I am around to say the least! That's been said, I never got any item notheworthy in ANY of my raiding time, the best item I ever got was a 40 hps item in EQ at SoL era, which is trash as I get better in my groups. I never insist for myself, I never really ask much (I ask for 1 item once and I didn't get it), however, I got NOTHING for 400 hours of been main chanter and "efficient"? I quit and swear to never give this rotten system a second try. And no, don't go thinking our LC wasn't fair, it was. What was lacking was the raiding selection, they always pick targets that drop nada of interest for someone like me. Raiding is screwed and a pure waste of time, my time in that case. I understand that with a dkp-system I would have gotten the item I ask and would still have plenty DKP on the side, but then the whole guild is kinda screwed all the time and the mood is extremely dark, can't stand dkp-ish on a social level. No, I waste 400 hours in raiding, won't waste any single hour ever again. And to peoples saying: You get the wrong peoples to raid with...well, too bad cause I ain't giving raiding another try, nor any game enforcing it. Live with it. I become a casual-defender/champion ever since, since raiding lack that much; not that they want the self-appointed me, but I sure can reach peoples they can't. Haha, when I ask the main uber guild if they want to chain wipe the next night, they left the casuals I was defending alone, very nice of them! Haha, anyway, it is achieving a LOT more than any guild ever achieve for me, I recall when our allies where training me, I ask my GL to resolve that, never resolve it...have I known, I would have send a tell to their GL telling them that training can be played in other zones if he don't keep his jerks under control.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I see.
This is one of the many many reasons I don't play Carebear games.
I really don't understand why ppl would want to play an MMO where they do the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over.
A Work in Progress.
Add Me
You can do PvP raids by shouting in Alliance or Corp chat, form a fleet, then travel to another Corp or Alliances space and blow up everything that moves. Usually, its first person to get to the wreck gets the loot.
In PvE, you can go inside complexes and complete stages to get to the end room. Each room theres a boss that holds the key to the next room(s). Sometimes theres a fork in the road and you can choose to go to room 'A','B','C', etc.. At the end, the final boss can drop a rare item, such as a blueprint to a uber faction ship or a improved item. Usually, we sell the uber item and split the isk.
I see.
This is one of the many many reasons I don't play Carebear games.
I really don't understand why ppl would want to play an MMO where they do the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over.
Haha. Personnally I like to do the same stuff, but always try to improve it, find a new twist, try something new. I win a tournament of Axis & Allies, the board game. To win such games, it help to actually judge the game, play it, play it again, again, again, again...a LOT. I have played thousands of games of Axis. When I play in EQ, I eventually manage to be the main puller, main slower, main CC, main DPS and chain pulling, all for the fun of it and all at ONCE hehe, the rest of the group was laughing and finding me silly; but they allow me nicely enought to try myself and succeed. I would have done it more, still trying to improve myself; if I would have believe in the game...but raiding remove that belief, completely.
It is a matter of perfection if you want. See, games like BF2 could attain another form of perfection I guess, but it is not the same at all, in BF2 a LOT change, so you have to adapt a LOT. Which isn't bad, and if my reflexs would be better I would prolly like it, but my reflexes are subpar, so I stick to games where they don't hinder me too much and where I can work on improve my performance...always. In a "carebear group", you have most of the basic stuff the same, you have to consider a few changes, maybe a different camp, then to make it work better...maybe you have a nazi enforcer and you have to deal with his "perfect" strategy.
As to carebears...you would be pleased to know that I am the GL of "Care Bears Inc.", a City of Villain guild. Hehe. Nothing as fun as entering a PvP zone and doing your PvE stuff, then been jump by PvP geeks, hitting Unstoppable, finishing your quest and running to hide in the hospital, denying then the kill they try to get for 2 minutes attacking you, while you just...ignore them. Care Bear all the way!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
is dumb, should be like 20 seconds to wait. Of course there are
situations where you're like "Hey I have my 3 piece, any of you other
priests need to get your third piece?" But even so it's no
big deal, a couple more weeks and it will all work itself out.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
if I were to kill a titan tomorrow and no CCP employees showed up to say grats I would petition it.
Waiting for: the next MMO that lets me make this macro
if hp < 30 then CastSpell("heal") SpellTargetUnit("player") else CastSpell("smite") end
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
I see.
This is one of the many many reasons I don't play Carebear games.
I really don't understand why ppl would want to play an MMO where they do the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over.
Really and what is the name of that great MMORPG you play ?
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
I see.
This is one of the many many reasons I don't play Carebear games.
I really don't understand why ppl would want to play an MMO where they do the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over.
Really and what is the name of that great MMORPG you play ?
I'm a Pirate in EVE.
I'm also playing an NDA and I have played quite a few games that aren't the same thing over and over and over.
A Work in Progress.
Add Me
"Loot Councils" and DKP systems are exactly why I hate raids and so-called raiding guilds. My preference for loot sharing it to be in a guild of friendly adults who can play fair without needing such assinine constructs gumming up the game.
Zerg raids can kiss my hairy behind.
I see your side, but being a GL for over a year in a pretty big guild I can tell you that democracy loses out indefintaley. A majority of players don't want to be involved..they want to log in and play and have someone else lead the way and make the decisions. Everyone should be heard, don't get me wrong but I'm taking your quote as if you think everyone should have a say all of the time. This just is'nt possible for most raid guilds. I'm all for NBG if you have the right people to play with...but all it takes is one arsehat to mess this system up and frankly sometimes it's not worth it in Guild politics to even put up with it 1x.
I'm currently in one of the big raiding guilds for EQ2 and I'm a support /utility class so I lose alot of rolls and have to settle for the lesser of the gears almost 100% of the time. Am I disgruntled by it?? HELL NO! I'm there to have a good time and hopefully make someone happy with some new gear even though it may not be me. Will I lose a roll to an alt, new guy who hardly raids.... NO. I may lose a roll to a long standing member who can't raid as much but who has already put in his/her time...I'm not mad about that either. Depending on which game you play and the folks you play with can make all the differnce in which system is better over another. For WOW players I would say DKP 0 sum hands down! getting 48 people to be efficient and accountable for raiding is a hard chore especially when zones can last up to 8 hours if you played through some from start to finish. Games that require less time and less people NBG and merit based systems can be more than fair if done right...choose the right guild with the right folks and you can be happy with a merit system.
MMO's in general have to tone down the chase for gear IMHO. It takes the fun out of it and makes it seem more like work. Gear is nice and all but the victory of defeating a boss is even sweeter. Basically, you have to chose the lesser evil cause all loot systems have faults in some shape or form.
When I was raiding in EQ dkp was the system used and I found it fair enough. The more you raided the more points you accrued to enable you to bid on an item. If you were a casual player you could compete on good items if you had saved dkp for a while.
I see.
This is one of the many many reasons I don't play Carebear games.
I really don't understand why ppl would want to play an MMO where they do the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over.
Really and what is the name of that great MMORPG you play ?
I'm a Pirate in EVE.
lol
maybe it is true, you aren´t doing the same over and over and so on.
Anyways... I heard of some gate campers, who waited for about 3 hours for a victim, not known if they killed it.
If this is not, what you mean with "pirate", then sorry for this.
Are you sure, that you aren´t doing the same thing on and on? Except of the time to surfe in web while waiting, mining etc.
sorry for bad english.
I see your side, but being a GL for over a year in a pretty big guild I can tell you that democracy loses out indefintaley. A majority of players don't want to be involved..they want to log in and play and have someone else lead the way and make the decisions. Everyone should be heard, don't get me wrong but I'm taking your quote as if you think everyone should have a say all of the time. This just is'nt possible for most raid guilds. I'm all for NBG if you have the right people to play with...but all it takes is one arsehat to mess this system up and frankly sometimes it's not worth it in Guild politics to even put up with it 1x.
I'm currently in one of the big raiding guilds for EQ2 and I'm a support /utility class so I lose alot of rolls and have to settle for the lesser of the gears almost 100% of the time. Am I disgruntled by it?? HELL NO! I'm there to have a good time and hopefully make someone happy with some new gear even though it may not be me. Will I lose a roll to an alt, new guy who hardly raids.... NO. I may lose a roll to a long standing member who can't raid as much but who has already put in his/her time...I'm not mad about that either. Depending on which game you play and the folks you play with can make all the differnce in which system is better over another. For WOW players I would say DKP 0 sum hands down! getting 48 people to be efficient and accountable for raiding is a hard chore especially when zones can last up to 8 hours if you played through some from start to finish. Games that require less time and less people NBG and merit based systems can be more than fair if done right...choose the right guild with the right folks and you can be happy with a merit system.
MMO's in general have to tone down the chase for gear IMHO. It takes the fun out of it and makes it seem more like work. Gear is nice and all but the victory of defeating a boss is even sweeter. Basically, you have to chose the lesser evil cause all loot systems have faults in some shape or form.
First of all you are confusing guild leader ship with loot rules for raids. Guild leaders and loot rules for raids are not the same thing IMHO. You can be a iron handed, cold hearted guild leader. You can be the Saddam of guild leaders but still have a working dkp system. DKP is more akin to capitalism because it's based on the economic idea of being able to work, buy and trade without the hindrance of guild politics getting in the way. I as a player get the ability ( with a clear and open DKP system ) to work for items and save up enough DKP to purchase items without having to deal with guild politics. Other systems don't allow for that type of player interaction and control when it comes to deciding your own fate with loot drops. Other systems usually depend on the mercy of people who may or may not have your best interest in mind and are usually rife with internal guild politics. The only exception I see is /random 100 loot roll rules and that is based merely on pure luck and in some cases even guild politics if people who don't raid often get a chance to roll on loot that you've been waiting to drop and that IMHO is just plain wrong.
I agree you can't have a democracy in a guild but you can have a capitalist system that enables people via their attendance and participation in raids to work for their loot in raids and lets them earn it via their own ability to contribute and attend raids. This IMHO is the optimal way of doing loot as it takes away from having other people decide who gets what and it is based on merely the individual's own raid habits via attendance. Some people may feel the other way around and say that they rather have others decide things for them in terms of loot drops and who gets what but I strongly feel that DKP is the best system out there IMHO.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
Oh. Carebear games.
I see.
This is one of the many many reasons I don't play Carebear games.
I really don't understand why ppl would want to play an MMO where they do the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over.
Really and what is the name of that great MMORPG you play ?
I'm a Pirate in EVE.
lol
maybe it is true, you aren´t doing the same over and over and so on.
Anyways... I heard of some gate campers, who waited for about 3 hours for a victim, not known if they killed it.
If this is not, what you mean with "pirate", then sorry for this.
Are you sure, that you aren´t doing the same thing on and on? Except of the time to surfe in web while waiting, mining etc.
sorry for bad english.
Get camping is still camping. It is still a repetitive task of waiting for people to come out a jump gate to extort or destroy their in game characters. It's akin to camping for a rare spawned mob in a PvE game. Usually gate campers have an edge in numbers and weapons. Very rarely will you find a gate camper by him/herself because that would be an easy way to turn the tables on that person if you mysteriously showed up with a few friends.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
I see.
This is one of the many many reasons I don't play Carebear games.
I really don't understand why ppl would want to play an MMO where they do the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over.
Really and what is the name of that great MMORPG you play ?
I'm a Pirate in EVE.
lol
maybe it is true, you aren´t doing the same over and over and so on.
Anyways... I heard of some gate campers, who waited for about 3 hours for a victim, not known if they killed it.
If this is not, what you mean with "pirate", then sorry for this.
Are you sure, that you aren´t doing the same thing on and on? Except of the time to surfe in web while waiting, mining etc.
sorry for bad english.
Gate Camping doesn't exist anymore, there is warp to 0km and makes Gate Camping useless.
By your second comment about mining, you have NEVER NEVER NEVER even touched EVE. Did I say I was a miner? No. I said I was a pirate. Pirates are NOT miners.
A Work in Progress.
Add Me
1) NBG: Need Before Greed. If someone in the group NEEDED an item to upgrade an existing item the highest level player (or the oldest member present) who needed the item got it. And they would pass down whatever item they were replacing to anyone else who needed an upgrade. Etc. Anyone who replaced something on a raid turned the items they replaced (if not passed down to someone in the raid) into the guild treasury so that if someone else needed an item it was available. In this way EVERYONE benefited from raids. This rule was followed for both raids and standard grouping if in a guild only group.
2) Be on time: Anyone who committed to a planned event was expected to be on time. If 3 such events occurred and the member wasn't on time they were kicked from the guild. Period.
Those were our only two rules. It worked really well.
That said I will NEVER play another raid oriented game again. They are boring in the extreme.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
I will simply catagorically not play raiding games or games with gear-based PvP. I dont know how anyone can without being an idiot.
I'll play them, as long they have plenty of other things to do.
RPG's and PvP really don't mix well.
Things like oh so clever clever looting systems are one of the larger reasons I don't raid. It's very difficult to get a relaxed bunch of people playing a relaxed game with not much interpersonal friction in that enviroment. There is always someone with a clever sceme to rip the other players off their share of the items. "For the good of the clan" or whatever.
The other classic is the guild hangar or guild bank account. LMAO, never sen anyone rip off their entire clan using one of those....What a great idea, please look after all my stuff for me. I am too stupid to be able to look after it for myself.
I find looting is always a good way to fall out with people. Anything outside of the automatically randomised method the game provides leaves room for personal grievance.