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Anybody care to speculate what classes will be playable for the chaos and the 2 elf factions?
z80paranoia
Member Posts: 410
Anybody care to speculate what classes will be playable for the chaos and the 2 elf factions? I am not familiar enough with the lore to attempt speculation but wanted to know what some of you think? One question that comes to mind is can Warhammer elves tank? They don't look like they would have tanking classes.
Guild Wars 2 is my religion
Comments
Silver Helms
Sword Masters
Dragon Princes
Pheonix Guard
This one looks like a high DPS kind of tank:
White Lions
This would be a cool Ranged/DPS class:
Shadow Warriors
And of course the Mages:
Mages
---------------------------------------------
I live to fight, and fight to live.
For dark elfs we have Witch Elfs/Assassin of course then maybe a Sorceress, Beastmaster and a tank, Knight or maybe Executioner.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
HE:
Melee DPS: Sword Master (one of my favourite units in the game, cool fluff and artwork in 4th edition Army Book - stuff about mastering martial arts "until they are capable of super-human feats of arms" and "learning carefully controlled violence" and things like "some say they can cut a candle in half without disturbing the flame, others that they can fight in comlpete darkness, guided only by the sound of their foe's breathing" from 6th edition - I'm so gonna play them if they'll be available. And if no... Than, go to hell Mythic :P)
Tank - first impression - tank isn't a class typical for elves. Than when you start to think about that - High Elves got 2 really cool classes that fot here.
First possibility: Phoenix Guard - the look fine, and their fluff - if I weren't "Sword Masters r the best" guy I would tell, that its even better than SM's. But if you think about that, you see, that they are not playable, or in the hands of a player - they loose something that makes them so great. For ppl, who don't know much about them - short quote from 6th edition Army Book "Of the many great warriors of our people, the most fearsome to face are the silent guardians of the Shrine of Asuryan. [...] The secret of their unnatural slience lies in the Chamber of Days, a hidden room whose walls blaze with words of flame, writ on the naked stone itself. These tell the histories of all the Phoenix Kings who have ever lived, and also thoso who are yet to come. It foretells the deaths of each and their successors. And who gaze upon these terrible words must swear a magical oath of silence from which they can never be released. This knowledge of their fate wipes the joy from these warrior priests, thier faces set instead in grim expressiosn of doom. In battle they can always be found where the fighting is most desperate, knowing in advance if they shall fall or if they shall be victorious. When a Phoenix King Dies, the Phoenix Guard are always there, appearing suddenly and without warning to bear away the body of their King to the White Ship. [...]". Well if you ask me, they are f****ng awesome... But not as playable class...
So we have the second possibility: Dragon Prince - great armors, they could look really good.
Healer / Mage - not much to say here, HE's Mages are on of most powerful in the world, so we don't have much place for speculations here
Ranged DPS - oh yeah, ranged elf, it'll be easy... Well, it isn't for me. Except of Archers and Lotherns who aren't anything special we have only Shadow Warriors left. But that's stealth class, and Mythic said, that there will be no stealth skills. So I don't know what to do here. We don't have much choice - no kickass units like WE's Waywatcher here.
I'm not so deep in Dark Elves, so here my opinios will be based on look of models:
Melee DPS: Executioner (only problem here is that Mythic said that classes in different races will not be based one on each other, and Executiioner reminds me Sword Master - and throwing out that one is not the thing we're considering
Tank: Black Guard
Ranged: Corsairs
Healer / mage: Sorceress (oh god, naked char again :P)
Chaos - hard to guess... So I won't try :P And personally I'm really dissapointed, that there are no playable Beasts of Chaos
"I am not bound to please thee with my answers"
Shylock [The Arden Shakespeare The Marchant Of Venice]
Well, the best "tank" would have been Wardancers, even if they take damage, they could have been displayed as blocking/dodging blows, but of course, these are wood elves...wood elves who are the most likely, lorewise, to ally themselves with non-elves. The phoenix mixed with lowly humans? I am already laughing hard!
I have seen Wardancers tank pretty much anything, including Khorne himself (as much as anyone can tank Khorne anyway).
I am pretty sure that art-wise, designing the Wardancers fight-patterns would be more interesting to the artists than any other elves, and nobody would question why a frail elf might be a tank after seeing that. Wardancers present themselves with a unique problematic: Players are usually stationary. There are ways around that however, without been a dork against the players. See, the Wardancer COULD be moving non-stop while fighting, within an area, the guy playing the wardancer might still be stationnary and not seeing all the flush if he is in 1st person, however in 3rd person and to party members, while fighting the Wardancer should never stay in any single place, ever. Rolling, jumping, blocking, leaping and much more. You don't have to get a pain 1st person view, the guy in 1st person might feel like he is stationnary, it preserve the gameplay against excess of "accurate realism representation", but if he switch cameras around, he should see the show...and maybe see a "grey" spot for his real location, from a "grey programmer" point of view.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
And I don't get that --> "wood elves who are the most likely, lorewise, to ally themselves with non-elves"
Maybe it's my english... Are you suggesting that Wood Elves are a race that like to ally themnselves with anyone??
"Orcs and their Goblin kin are out enemies, for they are the defilers of glades and murderers of our folk. Beastmen, the children of Chaos and Long Night are our enemies. They fight us for our right to exist in the woodlands and forests. Skaven of the Underworld are our enemies, for they gnew the roots of our world and bring pestilence and death to our forests. Dwarfs are our enemies, for they cut donw trees to fill their furnaces and to power their infernal machines, and many times they have waged war against us. Kegh-mon, the hairy Humans are our enemies, for they are war-like and greedy, and would drive us from our homes if they could. Many, many of them have turned to worship of the Dark Powers. Halflings are our enemies, for they clear trees away for their fields to crow crops which they consume with unsatisfiable hunger. They would eat the whole world if they could. Elves of Naggaroth and far-off Ulthuan are our enemies, for they have turned their backs on Isha and Kurnous, and betrayed their Elf heritage.
They are our enemies, child. Know them well and keep your bow and arrow ready".
What a Wood Elf mother told her son - Warhammer Rulebook, 6th edition
Or maybe last Armybook - first paragraph: "The inhabitants of Athel Loren are mysterious and sevretive beings, rarely seen beyond their forest homeland and thus little understood by the outside world. In the defence of their woodland realm, the Wood Elves and their allies [Dryads and other Forest Spirits if someone haven't guessed] are deadly and unforgiving. They follow path walked by no other, and often appear capricious or cruel, though in truth each harmful act they perform is always balanced by one of beneficence."
If it's not enough - read about them on http://uk.games-workshop.com/woodelves/ - in new army book they are even "darker" - they don't trust any strangers, and will make a hedgehog from anyone, that will enter thier forest without permission.
So I'll ask again - are you trying to imply, that Wood Elves, the same Wood Elves that believe that even their own kin from Ulthuan are betrayers and enemies, are the race, that will cheerfully ally with anyone??
I'm not sure where did you get that information, but not from Warhammer lore.
BTW - I would like to see tham as playable race, aspecially, that their natural enemies would be Beastmen, which are also very appealing to me ~~
And finally - what do you mean by "Phoenix mixed with lowly humans"?
PS: word to admins of the forums - someone blew the job with sessions, I'm starting to write a post, looking for some quotes in books, finishing post, sending it - and bam, Im already logged out - c'mon, how long is the session, 5 minutes???
"I am not bound to please thee with my answers"
Shylock [The Arden Shakespeare The Marchant Of Venice]
Phoenix guard is impossible since they have to make an oath and be mute, and making mute players dont seems a possible option
I hope you are right for the White Lions, they are my favorite unite and i hope they will be in!!!
I think you have to take into account that pretty much all of the factions so far have had a class come from nowhere and give a "Wtf" reaction to the community. Squig Hearder, Zealot, Knight of the Burning Sun, I guess Runepreist would sort of qualify.
Am I the only one who thinks we should expect one of the classes to be unexpected?
DARK ELVES...
Warriors (male warriors that could become Dred Executioners) and Witch Elves (Female warriors who could become Brides of Khaine)
Sorcerers (male/female)
Beastmasters
Scouts (who could become Assissins)
CHAOS...
Follow KHORNE - god of hate, blood, war, and killing to be a Warrior.
Follow NURGLE - god of decay, despair, destruction, and disease to be an Anti-Cleric.
Follow SLAANESH - god of decadence excess, pleasure, and self-indulgence to be a Illusionist (de-buffer).
Follow TZEENTCH - god of change, manipulation, scheming, and sorcery to be a Sorcerer
I am thinking last class will be a Berserker, although admittedly it's not very Tzeentchy.
Not sure about the elves. A Witch Elf is kind of a given though, as is an elven mage of sorts.
WoW / WAR - The Facts
Well, I've posted before about wanting to play a Ranged class on the "Evil side"...So when i see the word Corsair Tossed out as a possible ranged class, i had to check it out
To my suprise i find This: http://store.us.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.us?do=Individual&code=9947021203503&orignav=9 .
There is Hope for a "Musical" class yet!
Well almost every unit can have a musician, and Corsair are not a ranged class, the Shades can be somewhat of a ranged class for the Dark elves
there is a musical units in the game and the game is based on it , its not alll on the board game they use pieces so like ppl been saying probaly not a single musical class but u can have things liek it but there wud be not much point in musical classlive life, rock hard.
Nied, you might be a bigger WAR nerd than me, however... Wood elves are NOT racists (or much less); High elves are... (is Mythic choosing to ignore this facet of warhammer?) I see the wood elves helping other and mixing with them a LOT easier than ANY High Elf...and now you are talking about the Phoenix, an elite High Elf, elite of a racist race?
Now, maybe Warhammer try to change what the races, at their most basis are, but I remember clearly these point from my early warhammer days. Birthright elves where inspired and exagerated from the Warhammer elves. But no matter how badly the wood elves may feel, they ain't the racist folks that the High elves are...
I find the very tough of IMPERIAL and ELITE HIGH ELVES in the same group as incredibly detering, I just don't see that happening. HE are GOOD or LAWFUL, they are ELITIST, they are racist...while the Imperial are quite nasty in their own way. Warhammer is divided into 5 alignements, and we are talking of DIFFERENT alignments together, that is quite an issue with me as well.
Flame me as much as you want, the fact I am even arguing this is seriously decreasing my interest in the game.
PS: HE are racist, but they are in a parental way, yet, it just don't fit...
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Cheerfully? No. But alliance with humans and mixing group to fight chaos is something I could see.
However, the HE? How could they MIX units and groups with someone they see as their inferior on every layer? It is simply not working. To protect inferior races, you wouldn't thin your ranks among their...and you certainly need the support from REAL folks...HE mixing with Imperial? Not the same alignement, not the philoshy...it just would NEVER happen. Risking your elite life by removing them from a HE exclusive unit? That is nonsense.
While wood elves, even if they dislike the Imperial, they actually would try to attain their goals, whatever these are (against chaos/evil especially). A wardancer would follow commands from Imperial? Unlikely, but he would use the Imperials to attain his goal and kinda find compromises.
Just debating that is silly and honestly, it is removing a LOT of the interest I have with the game, their designers should know that. Not my place to teach anyone or explain to anyone.
Again, the Wood elves have allies with the Imperial OFTEN. The HE...I wouldn't call that alliance, I would call that monitering and they don't mix. The wood elves, they don't care about mixing or not, not like the humans would change much at any rate. The HE wouldn't "abandon" theirs to humans support, the WE, their are individualists...alone or with humans, not much difference...and they may actually help.
See, would a HE abandon another HE behind? No, they wouldn't. Mixing units with Imperials is the same as abandoning them. Would a WE abandon another WE behind? Well, the WE don't consider he abandon him, a wardancer for example is meant to be alone and protecting the community, he can uses support of course, but he doesn't need it, he is just that good. So yes, WE would leave their own behind, depending who (actually, it is the Wardancer who will charge and leave his own behind, letting them know he is fine and there is nothing he can't handle, even if it is Khorne himself and he is alone). A Wardancer in an Imperial unit is just as likely as a hunter can go out with dogs. A HE in an Imperial unit? Just as likely as the Navy Seal would not only use dogs, but give them rank and make them officers for their own. HE would NEVER mix units with humans, it is against everything they believe. They are elitist, but they are a community and a rather good one, despite their racist point of view toward the world and life. WE, well, sure, it is not like they consider them as a member of the unit to even start with and they allow lowly imperial to stick around and they will consider what the Imperials needs are if it can be used to achieve their goals as anyway, Imperials despite been a problem, they have always been hard fighting other problems of the WE, and they may show them just how good they are, by singlehandly defeating a whole squad of CW! Even if a HE could single handly defeat a whole squad of CW, his teamate would never watch and let's him do without helping him, just to lessen the risks for him, WE could do that if they are confidant that the WE can handle that. It is about as basic as it can be with the Warhammer mindset, I just can't believe I have to explain that and that the designers are obviously clueless.
SEE, the Eldarrs are NOT related to any elf, in theory (unless that change as well?). But the way everything is done, it is clear that it is the HE turn wrong, after a LONG LONG time. So even if officially the Eldarrs and the elfs are not related...it is just the HE gone a little further down their mindset; in the wrong direction.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
But whatever - back to the "who will more likely ally themselves with humans theory"
You really seem to believe in WE's, and treat HE's like racist, as you've written. But it's going little too far. Sure - they think, that they are better, they may be even cocky - but taht's all. And to be honest, it's something totally natural. See, elves are old race, humans have just started to build their Empire.I mean - how long ago lived Sigmar - someone who is treated like a god now. 2xxx years ago? C'mon - is it long for an elf - beside of young ones - HE's remember humans as savages who lived in caves. So you have to understand. Imagine that we have second "intelligent" species on Earth. They just started to build their civilization some time ago. I can bet, they would be a lesser race for you - and many years have to pass for them, to be treated by humans as equal. So sure - high elves find themselves as better ones - but it's not a racism, it's natural law, that is how it works.
And back to the "wood elves wouold try to ally with empire, and high elves - no way".
You've read the quotes from 6th edition rulebook, and WE army book. Sure - once again, for the game - they would ally themselves with humans, becaulse this is more important. But they are not so friendly, we both know that, and that's a fact. I won't write more about, because I think that all is clear.
But few words about High Elves - why wouldn't they mix their so elite forces, with humans or even dwarves. You've written that "HE would NEVER mix units with humans, it is against everything they believe."
Well, little history lesson:
4th Edition Army Book, The Chronicle of The Phoenix Kings - The Sage (Bel Hathor 1-660, Imperial Calendar 1503 to 2162) "[...] Finubar sailed to L'Anguille in Bretonnia and from there spent fifty years wandering over the continent. Because of the ancient feud with the Dwarfs it had been a long time since any High Elf had set foot on the Old World. He was at once impressed and appalled with what he saw. the human realms were vast, teeming and populous. Men showed vast ingenuity in works of engineering and schoolarship. Finubar had expected mud huts and primitive savages. Instead he found mighty walled cities and disciplined armies, capable of subjugating the Orcs and keeping the piece over huge stretches of territory. He saw that the humans where numerous and becoming more so, and what it was only a matter of time before they would eclipse the elder races. In addition he was fascinated by their crude vitality and exuberant culture, their energy and greed. He swiftly decided that it would be better for the Elves to have these people as allies rather than enemies. [...] When Finubar returned to Ulthuan he was hailed as a great hero. He swiftly took his news to King Bal-Hathor. The Phoenix King listened to Finubar's conclussions and reversed his earlier edict (the one forbidding sailors from Empire/Bretonnia to set foot on Ulthuan). At Finubar's request the city of Lothern was opened to human merchants and Elf pilots were provided to guide the trading fleets through the approaches to Uthuan. Thus began a second period of explosive growth in Lothern. Prince Finubar watched his home city become the largest trading port in the world and was ahppy. The humanns were astounded by the grace and majesty of Elf civilisation and well-pleased with the commerce that went on there The Elves were content to have powerful allies in the Old World."
Well - it's kind of alliance for me - not military one, but still. So I don't get why do you think that HE's are racist, who'll never ally themselves with Empire, and WE's are not - cause the lore is saying that it looks little different.
BTW - Merry Christmas
"I am not bound to please thee with my answers"
Shylock [The Arden Shakespeare The Marchant Of Venice]
Wall of text crits u for 2457459
You die.
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