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MMORPG of the Future
dredge
Member Posts: 13
Current MMORPGs are seriously lacking in new ideas. Here are some features that I would love to see in the next generation of MMORPGs:
1) Smart, active AI
EX: AI that actively fights against players and player cities. AI that coordinates attacks against cities, or locations (land-grabbing AI).
2) AI that spreads Wouldn't it be cool if an Orc army came to a peaceful area and setup a town of their own? This town would start out as a small military outpost. After a while, orc workers would chop down trees nearby (and harvest other resoures) and grow that outpost into a town, and then a city. This new city would try to spread as well, to create more outposts around it. If not checked, this spreading could potentially take over the entire world. Players would have to attack caravans of Orcs traveling to create new outposts (and loot them). Players would have to attack Orc settlements and kill all Orcs there to prevent rebuilding (and loot the outpost of its riches) and regrowth.
3) The ability of Players to truely CHANGE the world I want to be able to chop down trees, clear land for my new home, and improve the land around me. I want to be able to build hundreds of different items to change the world with. I want to make bridges, towers, fences, walls, windmills, etc. I want to be able to dig holes and create caves in mountains. I want creative freedom.
4) AI that does cool things I want to see [monsters/passive creatures] doing things other than just standing around waiting to be killed. I want to see deer moving around in herds. I want to see NPCs building things. I want to see monsters fortifying their lares.
When Ultima Online first came out, I was astonished and in awe. UO was something refreshing and new. UO was groundbreaking and very creative. It seems that there has been nothing since UO that has done anything new and refreshing.
Two questions:
1) Are there any games out there that I just don't know about that have these things? (I sure hope so)
2) What would you like to see in the next generation of MMORPGs?
Comments
You try programming then talk.
It isn't easy to do things like that, it's a miracle that gaming has even gone this far, most of your things have already been achieved anyway, except probably the 2nd one, which is by far one of the hardest challenges right now a company can undergo. Number's 1-4 except 2, I know of a game that is going to be all about that. Check out guild wars if you want to play a game that has things like that. (www.guildwars.com)
Deus Ex my #1 pick for all time greatest single player game, on all platforms.
Try programming it? Number 2 has already been done, but in a different genre of game: Warcraft 2 & 3, Starcraft, etc. This is *not* difficult. Just look at Warcraft. The enemy starts out as 1 worker and 1 town hall. From there it builds a large "city" and then expands to build other "cities" (ie new resource bases). Workers chop down trees (harvest resources) and build more buildings, including defensive structures- why don't we have this in MMORPGS? I repeat, this is *not* hard. It's already been done. It's just a matter of MMORPG game developers implementing the code.
or just a game that allows 10k+ people per server (new technology is slowly allowing this) and not have AI at all, just actual players that set up outposts build citys ect. Any fighting you do would be with another person this is kind of like a fantasy version of planetside because the way you get stronger is by fighting opposing factions. All weapons would be crafted and mages would learn new spells by having a scribe make them a scroll. This is possible for the next generation of MMORPG's the only problem is will anyone step up and do this. Yes it takes alot of programing but if done right that could possibly be pretty successful game. As long as they don't make the same mistakes as planetside.
Taking over base's and towers in planetside can only be done so many times but if you were able to create the citys and outposts and take them from enemys that would be differant than having set spots that you can take.
The end is only the begining.
The end is only the begining.
Well after my game exp over the last 1.5 years being extremly bad i have set down my exceptation quit a bit I am very happy:
1.) If combat sytem is really working flawless and is fun.
thats it. bonus would what id would like to see.
2.) Skills/abilities not cloned over all the classes.
3.) Profiled Monster: Skelton that dont bleed(eg. open wounds) simpl stuff like that
4.) Profiled weapons: Where each weapon con follow own tatics hammer doing impact dmg(maybe slight knockback with additionly weapon delay on foe), axes rendering armor(armor degration) and dagger bypassing armor maybe etxra chance for criticlas and such.
once these basics realy work well then well can talk about more advanced thing atm I only wana see those basics work.
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Light laughter and sweet water to you fellow adventures.
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Light laughter and sweet water to you fellow adventures.
I always think its funny when people want to go to all this length to get AI to do things which could much better be done in a pvp game. Why don't they just find ways to make pvp better?
It will likely be a long long time before AI will be able to serve this goal. Think... Even if and when it is possible to succesfully program unpredictable AI to do all these things (most likely there would quickly be seen predictable patterns in the AI's action and the game would turn into go to such and such a valley to kill the orcs before they harvest too much wood once a week) It will never be able to compare to a pvp enviornment where an infinite amount of random people decide what actions to take at all these different levels in terms of unpredictableness, simply because players as a resource is unlimited and free in an mmorpg.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------PROBABILITY(YOUR STATEMENTS BEING MOTIVATED BY FEAR(I>U)) > .5
My first contact with MMOPRG´s was with Helbreath, a real boring game that you take a lot of time to evolve your character only to kill other players!! It´s sad because it sucks after some months of play!Them I started to play Ragnarok, it is a good game but have its problems too (it don´t have PVP).
A good MMORPG may have the action of a PVP and the criativity and patience of a game like UO. These two things combined would make a great MMORPG. There are some games that have these two topics combined but they don´t work well with each other! Other problem is that the developers of some MMORPGs put a huge an pretty grafics in the games. I am not saying that this is not good, but a game with these grafics don´t let a lot of people play because of it´s configurations. It would be great if they make good grafics but not that good!
I think that a MMORPG need to have all the things you said, it would be very exciting to kill legions of orcs and their cities, to build your own village and all that stuff. I hope that one day a game like this will be released!!
Besides UO, I think EQ was a groundbreaking game. No one had seen a game like EQ before it's time and it was really the first, and best MMORPG imo. Me and all my friends have been looking for other games to play since we quit EQ but none have even compared. Some of us, have gone back to playing the five-year old game. What we need is something new, more realistic, totally original with well thought out ideas.
My idea for AI is, why not make games like the movies. For example in the movie, Lord of the Rings, you weren't always fighting, sometimes you were travelling, sometimes even running away from monsters. Zones should be dynamic, even if you've been through it once or twice before, the next time you go through the zone the mobs may be in completely different areas, or not even there. You won't know what's behind the next corner because it's not a static spawning mob.
When you goto dungeons. Sometimes they should be empty, completely cleared out since another group of adventures just cleared the dungeon (which isn't an easy task - something that may take hours to do). Maybe you come across an orc outpost. The orcs are just guarding a bridge behind the outpost so your only way across is through them. After you clear the orc outpost you can cross the bridge. The orcs don't immediately respawn.. instead when the orcs send a scout out to check up on the outposts and realize they've all been slaughtered and need to reinforce the fort to guard the bridge, a huge army of orcs march out of their lair towards it. That way if your group wanted to camp the fort for respawns, you couldn't, unless you were prepared for the oncoming massive orc armies that were coming to repopulate the zone.
Also when you enter a dungeon, mobs that live in the dungeon should know you're there, or be aware of your presence, and actually come after you. They may hide behind corners or sneak up behind you. So even if you know what's ahead of you, you won't know what's behind you or around you because it's always dynamically changing.
Just some ideas.
There are some really great ideas here.
I guess the main reason I would prefer smarter computer AI is because I don't enjoy PvP very much. I have only killed 1 person, in-game, in my life and it was a guy that stole from me. I still feel bad about killing him, however. I don't know what it is, but I just feel bad when I kill people in MMORPGs. I don't feel bad, however, when I kill MOBs.
On thing about quests: if there were less reliable forms of transportation in modern MMORPGs, player-made "quests" would be more prevalent. I can remember playing UO as a lumberjack. I had spent about an hour cutting wood and making shafts for arrows. After making a TON of shafts, I ran across an Orc Mage and was toasted by his magic. After it killed me, it looted all of the shafts I had made. It really sucked until I cam across another player traveling down the road that I was near. I explained my situation and he slaughtered the Orc Mage and gave me back my shafts. I still appreciate what that guy did for me, it was really an act of charity. This was a player-made quest if there ever was one...
1) Fully responsive environment - Not the ability to destroy everything
. Couldn't think of a proper caption.
I like the environment, storyline, spawn points etc to change according to what has happened in game. The great thing abt Doac was Realm War. This i loved. But it didn't actually lead anywhere. I'd prefer some reality to something, like the changing of borders, spawn points of AI units moving due to success/failures in invasions(Like Horizens was supposed to do), etc.
I want a game where your actions actually matter, rather than these static games. I had hopes for Horizens, but lost them very quickly. Doac was the same, loads of hopes, but very few fulfilled. Rpgs are fun, but it needs more to keep people interested.
2) Games with DTS
or other fully surround sound. Unrealistic i know, but i can hope for the future.
3) Clarity of game mechanics. Basically, i've played and payed for abt 8-9 games, and not one of them, the devs knew exactly how game mechanics went. They'd guess, but were never certain. Doesn't give you alot of confidence in their programming
Well about the AI, i think it would be smart if the devs set the AI's path. Make the most important decissions for factions and things so that AI responds on player.
What I would like?
Complete freedom, do pratically everything you can do in the real world
Get stronger then fight other groups of heroes? Sounds like Guild Wars. =P
City of Heroes? AHAHAHA! There is no substance to it. No story. *Nothing*. Its hollow. But hey, it has a new idea and pretty graphics. *wank wank wank*
As far as being able to impact the enviroment...if it has even a relatively large player base your going to end up with a completely featureless desert filled with Houses. I would love it to an extent, but not completely open ended.
I like the idea Atari put forth about the respawning of orcs, for example. Rather than have them just pop in from the ether, it would be nice to see a scout or courier visit the outpost, discover the slaughter, and run back to a base camp, prompting a platoon of orcs to come to the site, scour the area, and eventually leave another detachment to guard the location.
Way back in the early days of UO, the plan was to have a dynamic environment. In other words, if players killed all the rabbits, the wolves would become more aggressive (as their food supply was cut down). This really didn't work very well, based on the limited game resources, but now it might actually be viable.
I know Kriminal and others like him think PvP is the be all end all nirvana of MMOGs, but many don't agree with that. The MMOG of the future will have to allow for both PvP and PvE. A pure PvP game will not make it unless the PvP is implemented differently than the games available now.
I could write a book on what I would like to see, but I'll just say one of my chief desires would be a more dynamic environment.
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Old timer.
The thing is that there are many PvE games to choose from and people who enjoy PvE have no right to complain to the people who want a pure PvP game because there is only one out on the market and it's lacking in other areas that attract people to MMORPGs. Still, there are some close enough, such as Shadowbane and Neocron, that should lessen the pain.
I have ideas for two different MMOGs. One would be a pure PvP game while the other is a PvE that's built on a franchise (basically means I don't have much of a chance to ever develop it). I see the appeal to both types of play. They just have to be designed that way from the ground up to be great. I think trying to please both sides gets you nowhere (of course games like EQ prove me wrong just by their sales
). I promise I'll get design treatments for my ideas in the Developers Corner some day soon. I'm just not sure how soon.
you all need to visit Darknlight.net (DnL)a nd read the forums and dev chats. Most of your ideas are being implemented there. The game has direction towards being RPG (like actual mechanics that support being role play oriented). It will have Player vs. Environment and Player vs. Player. They will have GM's that are there to provide content, quests and direction. (In other words, they are NOT customer service with the title GM, they are REALLY GM's).
PvP only will never work. There will always be AI controlled creatures. No one is going to play a wolf, or a Skeleton...yet some of us want to battle them. We want AI that thinks and doesn't just sit there. In DnL the Mobs are actually going to come into the city if not controlled.
There is going to be player driven Royalty with Social Experience points being half the game.
Real weather systems. Snow builds up and you sink into it. Leaves a trail when you walk through it!
DnL to date, appears to be the best advance forward But I see MMO's really missing the boat on some major themes.
1) It should be fun and engaging for lvl 1 through lvl 100. I should never have to engage in "treadmilling" to level. Leveling shouldn't be the best part of the game.
2)Combat can be much more interesting with a few more features involved. The Health bar, which says I'm 100% alive when I have only 1 hp out of 200 and completely dead when it is 0 out of 200 is just to fake.
3)Community involvment and awareness. While some games are adding new things to do all the time. Even organizing events, I find that they are inadequate.
4) death is meaningless.
answer 1:
The reason I like Lord of the Rings: Return of the King, even tho its a console game, is that it throws you into the action even tho you are level 1. MMO's today seem to think that having you start in a place where you are isolated and need to follow a path and have some lengthy boring conversations with NPC's is a great tutorial. While I think a tutorial of game mechanics IS necessary, I don't think it should be part of the actual game (i.e. you can do it OFFLINE). Then, after you've done the initial tutorial, you are relagated to battle worms or dogs or mice or something for hours on end for the sake of leveling. Is this fun? Not really...so why do we do it? Well, if you want to level, what else are you going to do? Sure theres PvP, but if you are not into that, or you are level 1 and EVERYONE can totally kick your but, then what?
Say its a midevil MMO. When you start level 1 you spawn in an area with a GM or perhaps player who is recruiting you to defend the city from the actual mobs that are actually advancing on the city. Plus theres an army of the opposite faction marching on the city also. On one side is a combat training yard, where you train PvP style (but not to the death) against other n00bs or trainers. You are given actual equipment, like decent weapons and armor. Put into formation and marched out into a meaningful battle.
-You want to be a crafter in that scenario? well, instead of joining the city gaurd, you say, I want to help make that armor. On the other side of the new person spawning area, is the crafting training area. There they recruit you to make the armor and weapons. They are counting on you to get the weaopns for the army. Without you, the new people leaving to defend the city may march weaponless...and need to pick up a weapon from a fallen comrad (like in the battle for Stalingrad).
-money and items - Rabbits don't have gold in their pockets. Foxes dont carry around magic rings. Sorry. So how do you get money and items? Well. If you kill an orc weilding a sword. You should be able to pick it up. Maybe he had gold. He was wearing some armor. Maybe you cannot wear it, but certainly you can take it for its materials for a crafter. If you need leather, you can skin an animal you killed and take it to a tanner instead of hoping for a decent "drop". If you join the city gaurd, you get standard armor and weapons. You get a wage. You also get put into battles - have a rank (increased weapons and armor, steads, wage, prestige, etc with rank).
When leveling is the focus of fun of a game, when leveling becomes difficult and slow, or when you've reached the highest level. There is no longer anything to do. Start a new guy and start over. Unless you role play (which is a forum unto itself).
These things are simple. I didn't spend too much time thinking about it. I'm sure there are hundreds of more ideas like this that would be awesome.
Answer 2
I draw on the ideas of Xychwyn (on the DnL boards) for this one.
Let me target strategic areas. Arms, hands, head, torso, legs. With leg damage the person cannot run/walk as fast or not at all.
If wounded, make them bleed. Pain and bleeding cause you to lose HP and be less efective in battle.
Give me fatigue in battle. Wearing someone out is a tactic!
Morale. If I just saw everyone in my group die, give me a random effect. a) - despondant, lowered attack. b) Berserk Vengeance/holy fury. If my leader/local hero etc shows up, give me a boost. Like the pep talk in Henry the VIII before their battle. This could become a very complicated forum topic on its own. Lets keep it simple here, but the point is IT could be a lot more interesting to do combat. Even if it is the MMO's standby of "auto attack"
If you must have a health bar, make me weaker and slower as I get whittled down.
Would it be TOO difficult to get away from AUTO attack? Perhaps a FPS MMO would be more laggy (i have played planetside) but why cant a fantasy MMO be in FPS style? Jk2 has some pretty good sword play coding. It can be done. Why does everyone refuse to do this?
Answer 3-
Make the NPC heralds broadcast the local news. Don't give them a static script to read that never changes. Allow the "royalty" in the game to give announcements for the herald. Allow a bulletin board type area in the local pub or whatever, that will allow this kind of communication. In City of Heros, this could be on the TVs or whereever. Point is, community is built by communication. The reason the world is now a world economy is communication.
So far I have seen the community chats in games used for a very narrow range of uses. How do I do this? How much is this worth? Want to buy this? I have this to sell!! This is pretty much mechanics and trading.
We want communication that will forward content, build community.
answer 4
Death. I've heard it said that an MMO that had permanent death would be the "holy grail" of MMO's for someone who really enjoys Role Playing. MMO's all have 1 tying factor...when you die. You come back. maybe you lose experience, or equipemnt or something. But you can come back...again, and again and again. Its too easy.
Whats the point of being an assassin and killing the king if hes just going to respawn and keep being the king. The MMO's hard wire into their story why this is happening.
-planetside - cloning
-horizons - not clear on this one but its tied to the towers in the center of each town that "bind" yourself to
-asherons call2 - life wells
-Dark and LIght - Mana wells
-EQ - not sure, but it happens
But no one wants to play a game where you die and have to start OVER!! Many time the point of the game is combat. This means someone is going to die...possibly you.
First, you could take the mechanics away from killing the enemy and move it to subduing/incapacitating them. If you have a leveling system, you should get experience for doing battle. If you subdue your enemy or not doesn't mean that you haven't gained experience in using that weapon. Okay, so you do want the option of actually killing your enemy when subduing just wont cut it. When you die your "spirit" could go in front of your respective God (sorry, most of my interest is in midevil RP type genre) and have to do a quest for him/her (perhaps while in spirit form) in order to regain your body. When completed, THEN you can emerge from the Mana well or life well or whatever. The other option is that a cleric of sufficient power can resurrect you. If you are already on this quest for your God to gain your body (these should be fun) and you get resurrected, you could decline or accept. If you decline the Cleric will get a message from that God. "I'm sorry, the soul you seek is in my power." If you accept, then you come back to life and need to be healed of your wounds that caused the death.
Also, make what you are wearing lootable. I don't care if this means that you could possibly lose your uber l337 weapon or armor. If you lost while wearing it, then you perhaps deserve to lose it. Hope you have a buddy to resurrect you close at hand. Make it take several minutes for them to loot your plate armor. (lets see you get plate armor off a dead body in under 30 minutes). Sure the weapon in your dead hand is a quick loot. In addition. If the game isn't ABOUT getting uber equipment and treadmilling, the losing your equipment won't be so bad. If you are captain of the gaurd, you can be reissued armor and weapons according to your station. Your custom weapons and armor will be all that you lose.
Making death more meaningful like this will have 2 possibilities. Cause people to group up and respect healers and use tactics in battle (may the superior mind win). Or cause them to hate the game and quit. In my opinion, there are plenty of games that cater to "l337" power gamers so they can just go play those cookie cutter games.
feel free to Flame comment, yea or nay me.
Currently not playing any MMOrpg --
Lvl 80 paladin WoW
This post is simply brilliant!!!! You need to work for a game developer and make a game with these ideas of yours. I agree with every single thing you said except for the permadeath. Death in MMORPG's is a very touchy subject for gamers and developers. Gamers will simply not put in gobs and gobs of hours on a character that he/she has made, only to see him die at the hand of a ganker/griefer....heell even if the character dies legitimately at the hand of a NPC, they would not be able to handle it. Also developers that need a steady stream of revenue from said gamers can not implement perma-death, or they will face financial ruin for their game. That being said, I think the rest of your post is absolutely brilliant...Xaldor
Edited due to the fact that I misread your death idea:
Sorry I just re-read your idea on death, and now I must say that I agree with the entire post...Xaldor
I also wanted to add something about AI.
I cannot recall if its earlier in this forum ..sorry if it becomes redundant.
If I get close enough to catch a mobs attention. If they are supposed to be intelligent (orcs) or have a PACK mentality (wolves) let them warn the others. Thes guys fight in groups. No more "pulling" one mob out of the group to whittle them down. If theres a large group of orcs, make us band together to take them on! Even if a stealthy assassin kills one of them, they will be spooked and be on high gaurd for a period of time. AI is too zombie like on all these current MMO's
Currently not playing any MMOrpg --
Lvl 80 paladin WoW
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