Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Just say NO to raiding.
Nerf09
Member CommonPosts: 2,953
I just unsubbed from WOW cause I refuse to have to join groups with other players at incovenient times to me. I will only group when it is convenient for me, that makes about 10% of my gaming time. WOW endgame requires 100% grouping time, which is why I left.
Just say NO to raiding and forced grouping, cancel your accounts, don't feed the MMO companies, and childish guilds with their 1337 talk and bad English.
Just say NO to raiding and forced grouping, cancel your accounts, don't feed the MMO companies, and childish guilds with their 1337 talk and bad English.
Comments
PD: I´m sure you like my bad english
reminds me of Ant Queen in Lineage 2... only need 4 people to do it, yet most guilds take around 20+ >.<It's just because many people hate ants.
Count me on.
That was one thing I liked about CoV/CoH. The quest would adapt to the number of players doing it. Less players meant easier quests, where as a large group made the quest harder as it should be.
I had a level 58 Druid and like the op I also was forced to quest in groups, never mind that I had 2 others with me most of the time. Once you get to the mid 50's there are no more missions to do, only Dungeons, Dungeons and more Dungeons which you couldn't do with 3 people.
Now you have to begin a search for a group which is hard to do depending on the time you're doing it. Then you'd have to group with players you didn't know and many times as you know, players don't know how to group properly which then resulted in deaths galore.
Lately, I 'm seeing more and more posts about players leaving WoW. But this is nothing, wait 'til Vanguard is fully released. WoW will be but a distance memory.
Why play online games for solo only play? Honest question.
Oblivion / NWN2 etc. is MUCH better for someone who just wants to solo everything. You'll never find an MMO that allows it to happen, MMO's are designed for people to play TOGETHER.
And anyone that can't get to 60 in WoW solo will never be able to play another MMO to max solo. Some crazy dude did it in 4 days 22 hours /played. Doing 90% quests 10% grinding.
And Sololoca do you really want to be one of the fools that thinks WoW will somehow die? You ever see how many posts about EQ dying that failed? Guild Wars was posted numerous times to be the WoW killer, than it was released, that was several million customers ago. I dont play WoW, and I am praying Vanguard will be good, but anyone who thinks its going to die anytime soon makes themselves look like an idiot when said game is released and WoW isnt phased. Same goes for any game.
I leveled 2 toons in WoW to 60 and only ran dungeons post 50 when guildies needed someone to fill in. 99% of my experience from 50-60 was questing. Maybe you just didn't knowwhere to go? Honest question.
As a side note I play WoW because my guild of 5+ years plays WoW. If it wasn't for them, I'd most likely not be playing MMOs right now.
Raiding should definitely be part of the MMORPG gameplay. Without raiding, we would be limited to soloing and grouping in small numbers to accomplish smaller things. Raiding should be that big endevour to accomplish GREAT tasks. This brings variety to any game. I have to agree though, that pretty much none of the current raiding systems are good. So I agree that current raiding style ahs to change, but not eliminated.
I dont like the current raiding style in WoW, where raiding items are superior to anything else, thus encouraging players to grind grind and grind.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
It isn't a problem whatsoever. Raiding is when a large group of people get together to take out a legendary or godlike creature that would be impossible to do in a 6 man group or even solo.
This practice stems from pen and paper DnD days. If you wanted to go around and adventure then you can get you and your buddys together and play. If you wanted to take down a god, then you would need around 8 people to do it (or a GM that "faked" rolls in y our favor).
It isn't an MMO ploy to make you group or anything like that. And it certainly isn't WoW's fault. Think about that word you said. Endgame. What do you think that means? Well...to many of us, it means endgame content. Endgame content comes when you hit your maximum lvl and receive everything you could while normal solo or group gameplay. Endgame content is almost always raiding. Be thankful you even have that.
Every MMO that has endgame content has raiding. Do you honestly think you should be able to take out a god or a mythical beasts with only 6 people? That sounds a little conceded to me. If you're not into raiding and you are at max level then do either one or two things:
1. Create an alt
2. Unsubscribe'
You certainly don't need to complain about it because there is nothing to complain about Raiding in principle. Now....if you were talking about Raiding guilds and how much they suck then that's cool...that makes sense. But every MMO has raiding that requires a copious amount of people. It just isn't WoW my friend.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Not that I don't agree with how you choose to spend your gaming time, I myself don't enjoy a game with nothing to do at end game other then collect loot.
But one VERY important question for you.
At what point did World of Warcraft or Blizzard claim that WoW was anything but a raiding game and amateur pvp game?
I mean seriously people, did you not know what you were playing for the 30+ days it took you to get to 60? Have you not read a damned thing about the most populated MMO ever before you bought it?
If you didn't, well sorry you were dissapointed, your done, it's over, move on. If you did, well then, what were you expecting?
Seriously, you people just confuse me now.
Important Information regarding Posting and You
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Whoever posted this probably has no job, knows what love is from online sex websites, has 0 friends and of course his life is so miserable that he has nothing better to do then browse internet to fulfill his needs. I feel sad for you.
Raiding is actually lots of fun. The problem is that most games have grown a mentality and culture around raiding which isnt very palatable to a lot of people. Even in EQ2 which I feel has one of the better raiding communities there is a lot of the guild drama and elitism that permeates raiding in most games. At least you can find some friendly/casual guilds where you can raid for fun rather then it becoming a job.
If the OP consider WoW forced grouping then I really think he/she needs to find another genre of games. Im a big proponent on not only allowing solo play but having great rewards for solo play as long as risk/reward doesnt go out the window. My experience with WoW however was that it actually discouraged grouping pre level 60 and its one of the main reasons I dislike it. (The other being the raid/PvP grind as a full time job once you hit 60)
I think some people still need to realize that being able to solo does not mean you should be able to solo everything. Games needs to have significant amounts of group content and if you can solo it its probably not going to be much fun for a group. It will either be trivial/boring or autoscaled which ends up being sterile and repetitive. Neither is much fun.
Content that is had customized to be interesting and challenging to a group just isnt going to be soloable. This type of content is essential to a long term success of any MMO because over the long haul its the people who group that make up most of a games long term customer base. People who solo exclusively tend not to make the same types of social bonds and jump ship for other games quickly.
If WoW had 2-3 man instances, would you have stayed on out of curiosity?
Ya, they pretty much are the same thing. I could fire up MSN and chat with 100 other people playing Oblivion but this doesn’t mean I’m playing with them. Other then chat channels the amount of “playing with others” you do in a MMO is both minimal and tangential.
I guess you could treat it like a shooter where you play against others in PvP, but single players running around looking for lowbies to gank doesn’t exactly play to the strength of the MMO format.
edited to remove the shot at a certian subset of "PvPers"...
Not the OP, but I probably wouldn't have. 2-3 man content is great for getting together with established friends and a great idea in general. I don’t think they are a good environment for making new friends. Unless you came into the game with established friends you still need the 5-8 man content to encourage a building a strong social network.
When people complain, they dont see the relationship between developers, the game itself and its playerbase. There is a relationship between those 3 major "entities" (for lack of better word).
- Devs have a limit in their development (cant create a new continent in 1 day, takes a LOT of time to do it). This means new content is hard to create becuase first of all it has to be "new", not copy-paste old continent, make up a new name and bingo, new content. That content has to be tested for graphics, its own content (mobs, spawns, cities, forests and other geographical items). Then that content has to be tested for logical bugs (dead zones, tears in world, "sticky" zones, balance in zone-difficulties, some areas maybe over or under populated and many other things I cant think of). This development consists of MANY things that needs to be created AND balanced in relation to each other.
- The game itself needs a story, any story. Of course a good story will go a long way, but it has to have a story. The mechanics shouldnt be changed considerably too becuase with change comes risk of alienating the current playerbase. Sometimes that change is required to gain new playerbase though.Each game has its own rules, dwarfs are short, stubborn, like ale and usualy speak with scottish accent. Trolls are ugly, orcs are ugly, humans are... humans, elves are usualy pretty , usualy a good caster race. These game mechanics should not be changed by the addition of the content. After all, you spend a year playing your stubborn drunkard dwarf, and then new expansion comes out making dwarves slim and tall, and speaking with australian accent and drinking mineral water instead of ale. WTF!!! Thats not the character I created!
That last example is rather radical change, but smaller changes may still infuriate the player base and cause all sorts of financial problems when people start canceling their subs because of their suddenly "gay" dwarven character (no pun!).
- The playerbase - the most radical and unpredictable entity. We are the paying customers so we expect everything we want. We want better items, so we expect devs to make them. We want more/less raiding, so we expect just that. We dont realize though that we are not alone playing this game, and our reasonable or unreasonable demands/wishes are often contradicting to the wishes of another player. This makes a dilemma for the devs, how do they determine which demand is a genuine demand from the majority of the playerbase and not just a lame attempt from a bunch of whining forum spammers? Sometimes most players want something but that something may radicaly change the game so much that they ( players ) will hate it later. Guess whos gonna take the blame? Of course the devs. So a smart dev will not bow down to playerbase pressure right away. First they have to identify things most people want, and then to research whether those things that most players want IS realy what they want.
I think thats where WoW went wrong. They THOUGHT players would love raiding, but they did it the wrong way. In comparison to their solo-friendly lower to mid leveling, high end game is shockingly grinding and repetative. But is this fixable? Im not sure. There is a limited way to satisfy all customers, some will be pissed regardless what new content is developed to patch holes. If they make raiding less grinding, then hardore raiders will complain. If they keep raiding as grinding as it is then soloers will keep complaining. But they cant realy change raiding without adding a LOT of high end content. And that requires a lot more time then people imagine. But since we, the player base, do not realy see the dev side and see little of the internal gamemechanics side, we realy dont care about that. All we want is what we want. And we want in NOW!
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Okay, the last part about feeding MMO companies, and childish guilds, seems out of the blue.
I would also say that you are preaching to the choir. I quit WoW for almost the same reason. But really, all you need to do is, as you said, do it on your own time. Hey, there is always grinding, always PvP. Or, always another game. You don't like WoW. Then you have a right not to play. But I don't really see how raiding connects to feeding MMO companies and childiesh 1337 guilds, OR bad english, for that matter.
LRN 2 Stay on Topic.
I cannot hear you over the SHUT THE FUCK UP!
Thats because even though raid content takes a lot of work to design, its still produces more player hours per development hour then almost anything else. This makes it a natural fit for situations where you need to give people lots of hours PvE content without spending insane amounts of developer time.
Group content is less efficient then raid content and solo content is by far the least efficient because you need to balance it in both difficulty and reward for a large number of very different classes.
The other really efficient endgame is PvP but its not for everyone.