How much control does SOE really have?

End_of_a_era · December 2006

Seeing as SOE is a publisher and hosts the servers and sorts out all that kinda stuff, will they have more control over the game than we think? As far as i know it Publishers fund these projects so really their word is final.

Does this mean if SOE want something to happen it'll happen? Say for a rushed expansion for example?

M1sf1t · December 2006

Sigh...In the end this is Sigil's turd. Yeah I know you rabid SOE hating fantics will find a way to blame SOE but in the end it was Sigil calling the shots. Sigil developed the game for over 4 and 1/2 years without SOE and only recently did SOE get involved and they are just there to publish the game and that is it. If Sigil doesn't like how SOE deals with the publishing side they can just leave for another publisher. Of course they will have to buy out their contract like they did with Microsoft.

So let me repeat this again if you did not understand or cannot see past your SOE hatred to clearly......

Sigil developed the core ( about a good 80%-90% ) of this game without SOE. SOE and Sigil only hooked up recently. Sigil is the one responsible for the content and quality or lack there of the game known as Vanguard and not SOE. SOE has no power over the development of Vanguard

ShiloFields · December 2006

While you may be right about this being Sigil's sucess or failure, I wouldn't take too much comfort from SOE not being involved for 4 1/2 years. It just took them a couple of months to totally destory SWG with the NGE.

That being said SOE's relationship doesn't necessariy imply control, but I certainly doesn't rule it out either.

M1sf1t · December 2006

Originally posted by ShiloFields

While you may be right about this being Sigil's sucess or failure, I wouldn't take too much comfort from SOE not being involved for 4 1/2 years. It just took them a couple of months to totally destory SWG with the NGE.
That being said SOE's relationship doesn't necessariy imply control, but I certainly doesn't rule it out either.

Okay here we go again.

1.) Sigil hooked up with SOE and not the other way around. Sigil could of picked another publisher but they went with SOE. That was Sigil's doing not SOE's.

2.) If SOE is allowed to be involved in any way shape or form in the project then it's because Sigil allows them to be involved and has requested their help. Again Sigil's doing and decision.

As for SWG......

SOE was allowed to do all the changes and in some cases ordered to change SWG by Lucas Arts. In the end Lucas Arts signed off on the changes as it's their IP and their franchise game. If Lucas Arts cared enough about SWG they've of done a better job of being part of SWG from the get go. As far as they were concerned they were going to let SOE run it but once they decided it needed changes and they wanted to milk it you got your blessed NGE changes.

hercules · December 2006

Originally posted by End_of_a_era

Seeing as SOE is a publisher and hosts the servers and sorts out all that kinda stuff, will they have more control over the game than we think? As far as i know it Publishers fund these projects so really their word is final.
Does this mean if SOE want something to happen it'll happen? Say for a rushed expansion for example?

If they can give it the same love EQ2 got then i certainly hope they influence the vangard development directly.

What bothers me is the IQ on this forum seems to be going downhill pretty fast.Last i heard all changes need approval from LA on SWG which ofc i know you troll on .Get a history lesson on SWG before you moan about SoE and find out about how often LA imposed their will on SoE for changes.Its their license they can order like they want .If SoE wants a change and LA says no then its no.If LA wants a change and SoE says no then its a yes for LA.SoE has a lease only on SWG.READ YOUR HISTORY.Knowledge is power!

MX13 · December 2006

Originally posted by End_of_a_era

Seeing as SOE is a publisher and hosts the servers and sorts out all that kinda stuff, will they have more control over the game than we think? As far as i know it Publishers fund these projects so really their word is final.
Does this mean if SOE want something to happen it'll happen? Say for a rushed expansion for example?

He's talking about development, not publishing. SOE has no control, but does have influance I'm sure.

Agricola1 · December 2006

I'm sure if Vanguard starts looking good and gains a loyal die hard playerbase SOE will step in to ensure it all gets flushed down the crapper. However Vanguard seems to be pony already, without any help from SOE. I guess that's why they decided to buy the publishing rights, no extra work for them there it'll go the same way all their titles have to date!

gillvane1 · December 2006

Originally posted by End_of_a_era

Seeing as SOE is a publisher and hosts the servers and sorts out all that kinda stuff, will they have more control over the game than we think? As far as i know it Publishers fund these projects so really their word is final.
Does this mean if SOE want something to happen it'll happen? Say for a rushed expansion for example?

How much control does SOE really have?

Have you seen Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy? Remember the mice? Well, SOE tells the mice what to do, if that answers your question.

M1sf1t · December 2006

Originally posted by Agricola1

I'm sure if Vanguard starts looking good and gains a loyal die hard playerbase SOE will step in to ensure it all gets flushed down the crapper. However Vanguard seems to be pony already, without any help from SOE. I guess that's why they decided to buy the publishing rights, no extra work for them there it'll go the same way all their titles have to date!

Hey guess what.....In order to buy something someone has to be willing to sell it too you. That means Brad and the gang at Sigil would have to be willing to sell their "Vision" to SOE. I know that is a hard concept to grasp for those of you that were used to eating paint chips as children. If anything SOE is waiting to see if this game fails or not and then maybe they'll decide if it's worth picking up the remains. In the end it would still be up to Sigil to sell out to SOE.

Agricola1 · December 2006

Brad willieng to sell out? I'm shocked anyone would even consider it! Brad would never bail out, take the pay off and scoot, I mean look at his past ............ erm ok well ........... yeh ah nevermind good luck with vanguard!

Shanks123 · December 2006

lol this is rediculas i myself am i former swg player and as always a SOE hater but you guys are being rediculas. SOE will not be to blame for this games downfall as muich as youw ant to blame um they wont be you guys are just being haters. If you guys dont want o play the game because SOE might ruin it then dont and be dumb without playing vangaurd and leave sane people alone to play in peace.

Agricola1 · December 2006

Originally posted by Shanks123

lol this is rediculas i myself am i former swg player and as always a SOE hater but you guys are being rediculas. SOE will not be to blame for this games downfall as muich as youw ant to blame um they wont be you guys are just being haters. If you guys dont want o play the game because SOE might ruin it then dont and be dumb without playing vangaurd and leave sane people alone to play in peace.

I agree 100% with you, I'm just saying that this game looked and smelt like a turd before SOE got close to it. Just that having SOE as the publisher ensures that SIGIL will not stray from the turd brick road.

BTW it's spelt "ridiculous" one of the words along with "sense" that need to be stickied in every forum on the internet! Also Vanbois are not sane people, anyone who sends money to SOE in any form is not considered sane in my opinion.

Shanks123 · December 2006

Originally posted by Agricola1

Originally posted by Shanks123

lol this is rediculas i myself am i former swg player and as always a SOE hater but you guys are being rediculas. SOE will not be to blame for this games downfall as muich as youw ant to blame um they wont be you guys are just being haters. If you guys dont want o play the game because SOE might ruin it then dont and be dumb without playing vangaurd and leave sane people alone to play in peace.

I agree 100% with you, I'm just saying that this game looked and smelt like a turd before SOE got close to it. Just that having SOE as the publisher ensures that SIGIL will not stray from the turd brick road.

BTW it's spelt "ridiculous" one of the words along with "sense" that need to be stickied in every forum on the internet! Also Vanbois are not sane people, anyone who sends money to SOE in any form is not considered sane in my opinion.

what can i say i suck at spelling and i type to fast for my own good its a bad combo : / lmao

matraque · December 2006

Originally posted by Agricola1

Brad willieng to sell out? I'm shocked anyone would even consider it! Brad would never bail out, take the pay off and scoot, I mean look at his past ............ erm ok well ........... yeh ah nevermind good luck with vanguard!

Koster did with SWG. He took the money and vanished.

So the game was destroyed way before the NGE. Actually Koster destroyed it himself with his brillant content called the holocrons.

Unknown · December 2006

I hope he doesn't sell out, but I know if I could sellout something I had for an upwards of 10 mil and run with the money, I would and you would never see me again.

premierebori · December 2006

Why is everyone saying the game is going to be a turd. It's a great game and even in Beta it is better than many MMOs that are final.

M1sf1t · December 2006

Originally posted by premierebori

Why is everyone saying the game is going to be a turd. It's a great game and even in Beta it is better than many MMOs that are final.

BUWAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA !!! This game is going to be competing with Blizzard's TBC ! Would a new or old player of the MMO genre want to play another repeat of Horizons or EQ2 at launch or play a proven winner in the field with tons of polish and fun ? Seriously you Vanbois make me laugh. I guess Brad and Sigil could sell their own turds and you guys would think it was great and just like the good old EQ1 days. Then again I wont blame them if they could get away with it and laugh their way to the bank.

matraque · December 2006

Originally posted by premierebori

Why is everyone saying the game is going to be a turd. It's a great game and even in Beta it is better than many MMOs that are final.

Because it has SOE on the box and people just like to bash SOE.... The fun thing is that most of em don't even know why they have to hate SOE. It's all about being cool i guess.

Borneheld · December 2006

So this thread is only for the SOE and Sigil haters? Where do I find the Vanguard forums on MMORPG?

*sigh*

SOE is working on things outside the game according to Sigil, CS will also be SOE (outside the game) Whish I think was a very good decision for them, MS don’t know jack about marketing a game, nor the tools/techs to launch a MMO...SOE does = Smart move by Sigil

Inside the game there will be a team of Sigil GMs per server along with Crimson Fellowship all play the role of CS for the game and will hold live events.

Sigil has borrowed some Devs from SOE this past month for polishing efforts coming in beta 5.

Thats all I have heard as for SOE`s involvement in the game.

wyzwun · December 2006

Originally posted by Tudana

So this thread is only for the SOE and Sigil haters? Where do I find the Vanguard forums on MMORPG?
*sigh*
SOE is working on things outside the game according to Sigil, CS will also be SOE (outside the game) Whish I think was a very good decision for them, MS don’t know jack about marketing a game, nor the tools/techs to launch a MMO...SOE does = Smart move by Sigil
Inside the game there will be a team of Sigil GMs per server along with Crimson Fellowship all play the role of CS for the game and will hold live events.
Sigil has borrowed some Devs from SOE this past month for polishing efforts coming in beta 5.
Thats all I have heard as for SOE`s involvement in the game.

idk bout that, cryptic is a far better group of devs then sigil, guess what game there making and for what company....

Borneheld · December 2006

Originally posted by wyzwun

Originally posted by Tudana

So this thread is only for the SOE and Sigil haters? Where do I find the Vanguard forums on MMORPG?
*sigh*
SOE is working on things outside the game according to Sigil, CS will also be SOE (outside the game) Whish I think was a very good decision for them, MS don’t know jack about marketing a game, nor the tools/techs to launch a MMO...SOE does = Smart move by Sigil
Inside the game there will be a team of Sigil GMs per server along with Crimson Fellowship all play the role of CS for the game and will hold live events.
Sigil has borrowed some Devs from SOE this past month for polishing efforts coming in beta 5.
Thats all I have heard as for SOE`s involvement in the game.

idk bout that, cryptic is a far better group of devs then sigil, guess what game there making and for what company....

I`m not sure what it is you "don`t know about"..I didn`t have anything in my comment, but a response to SOEs involvement in Vanguard...or lack there of...heh

I cant tell you how the GM team or the CF group will effect, enhance, evolve in Vanguard, I am not in beta, but I know what I have read on and it sounding promising and something I have not seen since early EQ.

What game is cryptic making and for what company?...I dont have a clue who "cryptic is" ..maybe that is part of your cryptic message..if it is, i fell for it hook line and sinker i guess.

fozzie22 · January 2007

Originally posted by M1sf1t

Originally posted by ShiloFields

While you may be right about this being Sigil's sucess or failure, I wouldn't take too much comfort from SOE not being involved for 4 1/2 years. It just took them a couple of months to totally destory SWG with the NGE.
That being said SOE's relationship doesn't necessariy imply control, but I certainly doesn't rule it out either.

Okay here we go again.

1.) Sigil hooked up with SOE and not the other way around. Sigil could of picked another publisher but they went with SOE. That was Sigil's doing not SOE's.

2.) If SOE is allowed to be involved in any way shape or form in the project then it's because Sigil allows them to be involved and has requested their help. Again Sigil's doing and decision.

As for SWG......

SOE was allowed to do all the changes and in some cases ordered to change SWG by Lucas Arts. In the end Lucas Arts signed off on the changes as it's their IP and their franchise game. If Lucas Arts cared enough about SWG they've of done a better job of being part of SWG from the get go. As far as they were concerned they were going to let SOE run it but once they decided it needed changes and they wanted to milk it you got your blessed NGE changes.

This is ina nutshell how things panned out..i got the feeling microsoft pulled out becuase they really wanted a MMO for the 360 and no in hell was Vanguard going to it.

These SOE hating posters are becoming rather tiresome now..i played SWG and yes i hated the CU and the NGE but for the love of christ LET IT GO..ITS JUST A GAME..who cares about SWG??? looking back it was dross of the highest order hardly a game in fact but a glorified chatroom nothing more and lets be fair it was a buggy broken chatroom/"game" at that.

From i've seen so far of Vanguard its a true classic MMO in the traditional sense of the word,lots of thing borrowed from here and there to make a good solid timesink sort of game (no harm in that) and given the wayMMO's are going down the pan we should be gratefull for SOE for agreeing to publish it..the monster that is WOW is crushing all before and in the medium to long term this is going to be bad for MMO's in general,it'll take a brave person to push out a sandbox trpe game anytime soon thats for sure.

Polyformist · January 2007

SOE is their to help make sure that the release of software is done right (SALES) and with SOE's 10+ years of server experience this make's them the wisest choice on the market when it comes to maintaining servers for player to use! SOE's record is questionable when it comes to adding content to games, however their record for everything else is amazeing very honestly.

I will play VG with or without SOE on the board. The game rocks, its the first real hard core MMO since EQ, and Brad is ensureing its success with a 7 year plan of action and a company with a solid back bone to assist him in the "NONE GAME PLAY RELATED" aspects (SOE)

SOE (Billing, Servers, Product Distribution) + SIGIL (All about the game itself) = Next to Godlness

Borneheld · January 2007

I found a interview mmorpg did back in Oct with Brad and Jeff at Sigil, its a good read and its Jeff Butler explaining SOEs involvement in the production rather then Brad - so this might be more reassuring to some skeptics.

Sony Online Entertainment

When it was announced that Sigil would be co-producing this game with Sony Online Entertainment, it was inevitable that there would be some backlash from players who feel cheated by the experience that they have had with Star Wars Galaxies, and the massive changes that SOE made to that game.

When I sat down for a one-on-one with Butler, I asked him what he would say to players who oppose the game because of their association with Sony Online. The first thing that he wanted to say was that he has 11 Star Wars Galaxies accounts, and that he was the fourth Jedi on the planet Earth, first on his server, so he knows the perspective of people who are up in arms about the New Game Experience.

"I'm there," he said.

He said that he looked forward to going back and working with people that they had previously worked with at SOE because, "there are very few people in the world who have made Massively Multiplayer games, and then launched them, and maintained them for years. The people have a perspective that you can't really find anywhere else. There is simply no company that we could have gone to, to launch Vanguard more strongly than SOE."

"We co-publish with SOE, but as far as the maintenance of the game, the decisions that are made surrounding the game content, balance, things of that nature we're the guys who are responsible for that and also the in-game customer service," Butler told us. "I have the perspective of the disgruntled player, I could pretty much walk a mile in his shoes, and speak from his perspective and even with that perspective, there's no better place for us to be. I hope people make an effort to understand that/ it's just a very complex thing to launch an MMO. We wanted to work with a co-publisher who is capable of launching a game that doesn't have horrible internet lag because their ISP undersells them."

He said that partnering with SOE reduces the risk of reduced connectivity and lag that sometimes plagues MMORPG launches.

"I'm very much hoping that the people who feel that they've had a bad experience," he added, "or who are upset for one reason or another with their SOE experience will give us a chance. Certainly I just can't say strongly enough that it's the best place for us to be."

In closing the question, I asked him to clarify that in terms of design and development and choices that can be made in terms of, for example, the NGE and Star Wars Galaxies, that's strictly a Sigil decision. He answered, yes and confirmed that SOE had no influence on that kind of decision.

"So, if we make a blunder," he continued, "along those lines, or if, for instance the Monk ships and is unbalanced, you could complain to me because the people at SOE will not be able to give you any feedback on the state of the Monk. They'll have to refer you to us, hands down. There's no hidden clause there, there's nothing that I'm not telling you. We [Sigil] are completely responsible. It is 100% us."

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/setview/features/gameID/147/loadFeature/928/page/1/from/features

Enjoy and be enlightened

Agricola1 · January 2007

Nice little interview there, what was it named "damage control"? Firstly Jeff Butler is a stone cold liar, why do you say? I find it extremely hard to believe that someone who had 11 SWG accounts along with the first jedi on his server PRE-CU, would describe them as the best choice when selecting an MMORPG company to publish Vanguard.

Also his description of SOE's competence in maintaining servers and so forth is a bare faced lie, he had 11 SWG accounts remember? Well I played SWG for a year and would certainly not describe SOE as even half way competent, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that does.

Also they make it sound like companies were lining up to team up with them after microsoft DUMPED them. I'm sorry but the way I remember it is they got dumped then scrounged around for a publisher, SOE being the only company willing to take them on. If Jeff truly was an SWG player he'll remember the crappy servers that crashed everyday, rubberbanding that happened whenever you went near a city or had any form of combat even 1v1. The horrific customer support that ended up as canned responses in a call center in Bombay, India! The extreme apathy, deciete, chatrooms being shutdown because people weren't chatting about what they wanted, mass forum bannings because customers wanted answers, and being threatened with lawsuits.

Not everyone has had to deal with that, but if Jeff had 11 SWG accounts then he did and had all his worked wiped off one day with less than two weeks notice. So either he's not telling the truth about being an SWG player or he's not telling the truth about his true opinion of SOE, or both.

Personally I think that Vanguard is a steaming pile anyway, crap graphics, same old same old swords and sorcery gayness and the combat is less gripping than watching paint dry. I always have a good laugh reading about people building a new rig and asking if their 2 gigs of RAM and 64 bit super chip with fx 8-9000 graphics card will run it, from what I've seen you're not gonna need much to run Vanguard. The more I've seen of Vanguard the more I've been convinced it's not what most people on this forum are expecting, but good luck because Brad's gonna need it!

Bluehound · January 2007

Originally posted by Agricola1

Personally I think that Vanguard is a steaming pile anyway, crap graphics, same old same old swords and sorcery gayness and the combat is less gripping than watching paint dry. I always have a good laugh reading about people building a new rig and asking if their 2 gigs of RAM and 64 bit super chip with fx 8-9000 graphics card will run it, from what I've seen you're not gonna need much to run Vanguard. The more I've seen of Vanguard the more I've been convinced it's not what most people on this forum are expecting, but good luck because Brad's gonna need it!
-------------------------------------------

Bitter much?
SOE is doing distribution and hosting the servers. They aren't making Vanguard.

Crap graphics? The graphics in Vanguard are great. The character models are mediocre, but the graphics overall are superb, the world is beautiful. You will need a decent machine to run Vanguard it seems...maybe you should wait to judge the graphics on a machine that can handle the game.
No, I didn't play EQ1...and I don't have a hard-on for Brad. I do happen to like what I have seen of Vanguard so far and have pre-ordered it.
It obviously isn't your type of game, maybe you should pick up a Wii and give that a go.

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