Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Vanguard SOH beta review
DJXeon
Member UncommonPosts: 553
Thought u might like to see the kind of posts Vanguard beta is getting in their ingame forums..
Performance issues to one side atm as it needs a good 3D capable pc....
[QUOTE=jamjam;1851417]While I agree VG could do with more tactical combat (particularly solo), and more strategic elements, overall I think it has plenty to differentiate itself.
There's nothing inherently wrong with the combat system either - imo it needs a few small AI and NPC ability tweaks to make it more tactical, not a complete system revamp. (See my previous posts :P).
But the crafting, diplomacy, exploration (+harvesting), massive world, player made ships and housing are all very, very exciting stuff. This is a game with unprecedented freedom, and a vast array of places to see and an almost silly number of different things to do. Personally, I can't wait for release to get in there with my friends, form a small guild and start building up our resources.
Don't like the UI? Download one of the player-made ones.
Don't like the quests? Stop doing quests... you simply do not need to quest to advance. Get off the beaten path - this is a game that rewards the people who go where others don't!
Not enough difficulty? Take on mobs with more dots and higher level. Join or form a group and jump down a nasty dungeon. There is difficulty to be had - players in their high 30's are still reporting challenges.
As to the EQ vs WOW model, I think it's a false comparison. EQ is an outright obsoleted game now, and Sony's attempts to modernise it have totally ruined its original essence. I stopped playing EQ a year ago, by which point it had become a complete farce.
EQ's means of adding difficulty and making you afraid of death etc had their downsides. Everquest gameplay was heavily punctuated by highly risk-averse activity. By which I mean everyone went to the same zones and ground the same few camps together until they were high enough level to move onto the next easy/safe area where everyone of _that_ level range ground out levels. Once players finished the race to "high level" they then began a linear grind through the raid content, at which point EQ began to reward robotic solider-like obedience over any other trait you might name. Anyone doing anything the least bit creative or intelligent on a raid (Except the 5% of the population who were raid leaders - and even they were usually following the written strategy of the first guild to break each encounter) was smacked down flat in seconds.
Most of the zones in EQ are empty, have been empty since they opened and will be empty until the end of time. Why? The game fails to reward exploration.
Vanguard does not have EQ's level of difficulty (well, it's level of difficulty many years ago), and I am by no means as afraid of death in VG as I was in EQ1. But... I am still afraid of death. The penalty is present and effective but not totally crippling.
Vanguard _does_ reward exploration. Every time I've decided to step off the beaten path and go check something out, I've found the experience rewarding. Sometimes my reward is just an incredible view off a high mountain and some haunting music. More usually though it's a new view, some new music, more untouched ore to mine (or insert your resource type here 
), new mobs to kill, new loot to be had. I still get smacked down occasionally, but since there are rewards, its worth exploring despite the pain. In fact, I could deal with a little more pain and still expect people would want to explore.
In VG I envision absolutely zero resistance when I suggest to my friends "let's go climb that cliff and explore on top of it!". Contrast that to EQ... ever tried getting your group to leave the Dreadlands in your 40's? Lordy.
As to Eq's features vs WoW's features... EQ peaked at maybe half a million players. It's down below 200,000 now. With turnover, perhaps it introduced a million people (my guess) to MMO's, most of which would now be playing WoW. By contrast, WoW has more than six and a half million active subscribers, with its growth-curve only just beginning to slow down. EQ1 will continue to lose subscribers, and I would expect it to take a big hit when Vanguard is released.
With those numbers, nobody in their right mind can make a game without looking closely at what WoW has done right, to give it such massive appeal. One of the things it did was tone down the punishment factor, and another was to remove the tedius elements. If you look at the WoW elements Sigil have put into Vanguard, they almost all fall into those two categories. Meanwhile, most of the stuff people complain about WoW has been left out of VG.
It also makes a lot of sense to try to harness some of those millions of players. A lot of them will be bored, ranging from slightly underwhelmed to so incredibly sick of WoW they will jump onto the next best thing no matter what it is. It makes sense to build some of your game around making sure those players integrate easily into your playerbase. A familiar UI and some familiar gameplay elements can't hurt there.
If Vanguard convinces a million players (15%) to leave WoW, those familiar elements will have been time and money well spent, and give Sigil the funds they need to _continue_ to build Vanguard from the great game it is now into the greatest game there ever was.
Regards,
Jam[/QUOTE]
Comments
The trouble with that review is that it was written by a rabid Vanbois whilst he was in a delerium having one of his many "Vanguard Visions".
I'd bet that any objective review was probably deleted from the ingame forums, because any objective review would point out positives and negatives. Also when he started writing about Vanguard taking away 1 million players from WoW then I knew what this guy needed with his pre-order .......... a straight jacket and nine rolls of rubber wall paper!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
As Agricola1 said, this review is very biased, and doesn't seem to point out any flaws. It's overly optimistic, in my opinion. For example: "Don't like the quests? Stop doing them!" The answer to boring questing shouldn't be to just give up on them, devs should work to make them more appealing to their players. Granted, I have always found questing monotonous in MMO's, but when is the last time some really innovative quest system was implemented?
I'm not here to condemn reviews, but thus far, all I see on the forums is "This game is going to suck ass, and in every way possible" or "This game is going to be the best ever". I'll await the poster who's extra-critical.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
.jpg)
I still say Vanguard is EQ 3, and that doesn't mean it's crap or it's good just that's the best way to describe it to another MMORPG gamer in one phrase.
Five good things going for Vanguard,
1: Large world.
2: No instancing.
3: Good variety in profs.
4: An open play style, you can choose between linear or non-linear progression.
5: Death penalty.
Five bad things going against Vanguard,
1: System requirments to run the game are far too high.
2: It's being released far too early.
3: Your Avatar is a clone.
4: Animations are dodgy and combat is a key mashing fest whilst watching paint dry.
5: It doesn't live up to the hype and this will cause a backlash due to many reviewers/gamers with high expectations.
The big problem for Sigil and Vanguard is that there are two EQ games out there already and Vanguard is the least polished most buggy/laggy of the three. I remember when EQ 2 was about to be launched, I was playing SWG (PRE-CU!) and there were players marching around like Hari-Kryshnas and Jehovahs witnesses telling me to cancel SWG and sub to EQ 2. "The end of MMOs is here as we know it EQ 2 shall ravage all in its wake, sub now before your game is shut down and get a head start on EQ 2!" I heard that crap everyday! Now the Vanguard supporters aren't as numerous but have many just as sychophantic in their ranks, one comment on these forums I can't forget was "Vanguard will be superior to every MMO for the next three years!" always makes me chuckle.
I think Vanguard is competeing in a saturated market, the market being for EQ type games and there are less and less subscribers to go around every year.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Hi,
Having been in VG beta since Beta3 Oct 2005 i am still learning about Vanguard as it does take some time to get to know all the game.
I have to say that i am enjoying the game todate but have noticed a lot of ppl are jumping to conclusions about a lot of VG features who haven't been in the game five minutes - take your time as you will need it - the game is massive.
I do nevertheless agree with the quoted review above as being similar to my own current experience in the game.
Also, going of the trail isn't that rewarding as you make it sound. so you find some new eye candy, and some new monsters & loot, just like every other MMORPG. Its really nothing special.
My Experience with Vanguard? Its just the same old thing all over again, except that combat is now extremely boring to do.
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
.jpg)
you don't know how to express your feedback in a way that is more constructive than, "d00d, Vantaurd" and "WoW sux".
Dought if you would be very welcome in VG beta with those comments but try out retail - you may change your mind
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
.jpg)
Well since I played a while. I have to say it is an okay game after you take the time to make it playable with self-optimization (completely unplayable unoptimized).
The combat sucks ass. I experienced alot of different types of combat in games, and this one rivals Dark and Light Combat. It is horrendously boring.
The graphics are OK, even on the Highest Settings, the arms, legs, and hair look clay like. They are too shiny. The face however is nicely done if it weren't for the thick eyebrows, but thats a minor thing. The environments are descent enough, however as far as game design goes, it felt lazy. The buildings were off proportion for actual game design standards. They looked to be at realistic scale which is usually a no-no since it makes it feel cramped. Also the buildings were excessively high poly. I would see roofs with 600+ polies, and things that could be hidden with descent texturing fully modeled out wasting a good 50+ polies. Also all the buildings lack dirt and grime. This far in development, just about every asset should be done. Infact I noticed some very lazy texturing methods on the buildings that would take the average artist 1-5 minutes to do. Also the buildings did not seem to match with the terrain. They look like they were just stuck there with no signs of construction. The majority of the textures look like a grayscale map with a color tossed onto it. No real digital artistry involved. The water shader lacked 1 unreal script for it to add breaking water whenever it contacted another object. Its a typical thing for a game done in the Unreal 2 engine. Overall, the graphics feels more cartoony. Whoever thinks these graphics look realistic which is what it was advertised as needs to get thier eyes examined.
The crafting is pretty interactive. However, with the optimization issues its pretty hard to be able to craft in town which you need to inorder to craft the first time. Also your first time crafting can be a bit confusing since there is a lack of guidance.
Exploration could be better, however they have a monster spawn setup typical to EQ which severily inhibits exploration. If you go 10 meters outside your designated leveling radius, the monsters jump in level making it so you can't go further without first gaining a few levels.
The game lacks complexity. It just doesn't give me the control of the characters stats that I would expect of this type of game. Infact when I level I really don't have anything I feel I need to do, it is just a ding that affects what quests I can do.
The AI needs alot of work. Lots of monster glitches to abuse. It also prevent proper roleplaying value since the monsters act too computerized in situations. Such as monsters seeing you through walls, and cloaking becoming almost useless.
Says the guy that just crawled out of his hole Ok after playing vanguard open beta my thoughts are the game is sweet . Runs as good as any game ive ever played on my computer which is about the bottom of the mid range systems i would have to say after alll ive read about proformance and system requirments that
1. That sigil works fast and fixed it
2. people just dont know how to keep thier computer running at its best
3. Or people are just nit picking whiners
As far as death penalty's i like it it adds some danger to the game just makes it seem more exciting God by the time i was level 38 In WOW i had every flight path in the game and was farming every zone for herbs and ore, Oh look i aggroed that level 60 elite i better run 15 feet over this way cause it will turn around and go pack to its spot . LoL Ya and if it did get me so what i would be back farming in under 1 min
Vanguard is as good as anything on the market today and i dont care if you believe me or not If your interested try it
Well, this review is a bit enthusiastic.
*---------
), new mobs to kill, new loot to be had. I still get smacked down occasionally, but since there are rewards, its worth exploring despite the pain. In fact, I could deal with a little more pain and still expect people would want to explore.
Vanguard _does_ reward exploration. Every time I've decided to step off the beaten path and go check something out, I've found the experience rewarding. Sometimes my reward is just an incredible view off a high mountain and some haunting music. More usually though it's a new view, some new music, more untouched ore to mine (or insert your resource type here
*----------
This is true to every single game out there. I still play EQ occasionally and I find very often nice sights, especially in Kunark and Velious, but not only there. If you still play EQ check out the frog hyroglyphs in Guk for example. SWG has nice places to see also, so has AO. Trouble is, nobody is interested in those sights, otherwise the old zones would not be empty, would they ?
*-----------
Not enough difficulty? Take on mobs with more dots and higher level. Join or form a group and jump down a nasty dungeon. There is difficulty to be had - players in their high 30's are still reporting challenges.
*-----------
*Tired of beating lower cons ? Try higher cons.* Seriously, that concept was not exactly invented with VG.
I saw the Griffon Flight Video on the news page and could not help myself thinking *what a nice WoW ripoff*. Great grafics for sure, but not exactly a new idea. Question is, will the game be rewarding enough to justify a major hardware upgrade ? Or is it just one more game in the queue ?
This can not be answered before the game is out. As anyone who plays longer than 2 years or so knows, hypes mean nothing. Dark and Light, MxO, Horizons to name a few. Oh, and EQ2 of course http://images.mmorpg.com/images/emoticons/emt_bigsmile.gif
One thing catches my eye though:
*---------
Vanguard does not have EQ's level of difficulty (well, it's level of difficulty many years ago), and I am by no means as afraid of death in VG as I was in EQ1. But... I am still afraid of death. The penalty is present and effective but not totally crippling.
*---------
So even our fanbois here says VG is not as difficult as EQ. Worse. he mentiones that it was impossible to leave Dreadlands in your 40s. So basically i guess he is comparing Vanguard not with todays watered dowen EQ, but to the EQ pre Planes of Power.
I seem to remember that the idea of Vanguard was to be the game EQ was supposed to be ? Tough, hard to level, for the hardcore gamer tired of getting things handed on a plate ?
I guess the idea of making a challenging game went overboard the moment subscriber numbers became an issue in board meetings. EQ still has it followers for sure, because it is harder than most games out there. But that is not where the big money is. Part of WoWs success is the fact that many people play it. It is easy to learn, leveling is not to tough. Nice and relaxing. The moment a company decides to bring out a tougher game the number of subscribers is limited and will not be able to compete with the almighty WoW.
Games that have less subscribers are not very likely to be developed in this environment. EVE is a notable exception to this, but then EVE was not developed by an american company.
Just my 2 cents
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
.jpg)
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
.jpg)