While i do repect everyones need and will to argue and debate over things, there are certain things that still remain as facts.
1. Still beta
2. Release date is Q1 2007
3. 1 week of work on a patch can do wonders (seen it many times)
Also Open betas can be for several reasons:
1. Server stress tests
2. Game optimization
3. Reading 300 pages of whine from stuff they have not found yet (altho it is kind of expected for this to be resolved within closed beta)
Please remember people, Q1 means january-march, this gives a good 2+ months before release backline not to mention moving releasedates in the gaming industry is more common than rare. If you want to express your oppinion on how bad a game is do it on a released game, not a beta. (you do not judge a painting before it is done)
Games have to make people upgrade, Doom3 and Half-life 2 did this... but VG.. no.
I upgraded to a 6800 to play Company of heroes (top class game), I consider this a medium spec, but in VG I have to play at High performced.. i can just get Balanced but the framerate goes up and down like a yoyo.
I cant imagine any 1 upgrade their systems to play Vanguard. So im sry but VG:DEV's shot themselves in the foot setting requirments so high for a game/company with no history and just a handful of fans, if VG ever wanted to ninja some of the WoW crowed they failed cus you dont need a 8800 or 1950 to play WoW, WoW can happly run on 9600 (i play on a minimac in work sometimes) and it still looks great with bloom effects, pixel shaders on water etc. They might have a better time taking some of the EQ2 guys cus EQ2 also needs a beefy rig also.
Yes VG graphics are TECHNICALY more impressive then WoW more polygons/special effects etc, but what good are flashy gfx if 90% of player have to play with Balanced setting or below and anything thing below Balanced makes VG look worse than runescape, trees look like cardboard cutouts utill your within 5 yards of them.
VG spec'd themselves out of a large playbase, all reviews will talk about the high requirments and many will not play becuase the game looks awful on their systems... as we all know, we all make choices based on gfx as much as gameplay.
From what ive played, VG requirments (gfx card) should be set to: Minimun requirments 9800/5900 recommended 7800/1950
I just hope the VG:Dev's will show some of these threads to SOE to convince them to give VG:Dev's a bit more time to work on gfx engine.
And saying upgrade or shutup dont help, the performance of the game is the 1# issue people have so I cant be ignored.
And believeing that a game released in the year 2007 should work at all on an adapter from 2002 is absolutely ridiculous. People do upgrade to play games, otherwise there would be no need for new technology. You're in for a short sharp shock if you think a 6800 will cut it for most of this years games. It's almost 3 years old now. I'd suggest that some of you go buy a 360 or a PS3. You will not be happy with PC gaming with the expectations you have.
Well my system 6800, 1.5gig ram, AMD'64 3200 can run Company of heroes on medium/max settings and that was realsed just 4-5 months ago and is a next gen game.
As soon as Gears of war or UnrealTournament 2007 is out for PC Id be first to invest in a 7800gt if my rig cant handle it, we all know a FPS demands to a high spec but this is the first time (aside form EQ2) where a MMO demands top spec.
With VG the problem is that the game looks so dramaticly difference from Max settings to Min settings that it looks like 2 different games, Max setting = 2007, Min settings = 1998. It realy is that different and player on min settings will play differently from Max setting players, everyhting from low FPS to a shorter view distance, its not just visual.
And believeing that a game released in the year 2007 should work at all on an adapter from 2002 is absolutely ridiculous. People do upgrade to play games, otherwise there would be no need for new technology. You're in for a short sharp shock if you think a 6800 will cut it for most of this years games. It's almost 3 years old now. I'd suggest that some of you go buy a 360 or a PS3. You will not be happy with PC gaming with the expectations you have.
I'm not sure what you're referring to, considering that the 6800 came out in 2004.
While I think you're talking nonsense (with regard to Vanguard, which is not Crysis, and probably not even Far Cry), I also think that a beta should not be compared in terms of speed to a released game. There's a lot of scope for optimisation, and I think that the beta is more useful for tweakig gameplay than tweaking graphics -- which can be done with less user feedback.
And believeing that a game released in the year 2007 should work at all on an adapter from 2002 is absolutely ridiculous. People do upgrade to play games, otherwise there would be no need for new technology. You're in for a short sharp shock if you think a 6800 will cut it for most of this years games. It's almost 3 years old now. I'd suggest that some of you go buy a 360 or a PS3. You will not be happy with PC gaming with the expectations you have.
I'm not sure what you're referring to, considering that the 6800 came out in 2004.
While I think you're talking nonsense (with regard to Vanguard, which is not Crysis, and probably not even Far Cry), I also think that a beta should not be compared in terms of speed to a released game. There's a lot of scope for optimisation, and I think that the beta is more useful for tweakig gameplay than tweaking graphics -- which can be done with less user feedback.
I dont really care for the opinion of someone who cant accept the cold hard facts of PC gaming. You made mention of the 9800 which is why I said 2002. You'll note that I did actually remark that your card was 3 years old. You can think I'm talking nonsense all you want. If you want to play next gen games, you need next gen hardware. I wouldn't really call CoH "next gen" per ce, although I will agree it is a very good game. Try R6 : Vegas or Splinter Cell : DA. They are proper next gen titles, especially R6.
3 generation game, guys you have to pay to play All i can say is that my old computer intel 3.0 nvidia 7800 gt and 1.5 giga ram could not run vsoh but i really want to play this diamond so i made a litte pc upgrade My new pc is Intel dual core 6700 4giga ram and Nvidia 8800 Now its the most butiful mmog game i have ever seen average framrate 25-50 outside towns 35-60 and all settings on max Before average was 15 Great game but needs a very highend computer See you ingame
That is why the game will fail. One of the main reasons why WOW was a huge success was b/c it wasnt hard on your system and most could get by with average PC's. If you think people are going to spend a lot of money to upgrade or buy a mega system just to play it and have SOE name next to it... your crazy.
This is not why WOW was a sucess. Thank you, good day.
Well my system 6800, 1.5gig ram, AMD'64 3200 can run Company of heroes on medium/max settings and that was realsed just 4-5 months ago and is a next gen game.
As soon as Gears of war or UnrealTournament 2007 is out for PC Id be first to invest in a 7800gt if my rig cant handle it, we all know a FPS demands to a high spec but this is the first time (aside form EQ2) where a MMO demands top spec.
With VG the problem is that the game looks so dramaticly difference from Max settings to Min settings that it looks like 2 different games, Max setting = 2007, Min settings = 1998. It realy is that different and player on min settings will play differently from Max setting players, everyhting from low FPS to a shorter view distance, its not just visual.
6600oc 3200+ 2gis RAM and 10 minutes of tweaking and I only get lag or choppyness on zone resets and in the highly populated beginner areas.
A little forum reading and many issues are solved. It isn't perfect but there is much to learn to improve performance and bug work arounds. For example how to get bard songs to cast when they hang up.
Learn is half the battle and it seems most "beta testers" (in almost every beta I have been in) can't read.
Well my system 6800, 1.5gig ram, AMD'64 3200 can run Company of heroes on medium/max settings and that was realsed just 4-5 months ago and is a next gen game.
As soon as Gears of war or UnrealTournament 2007 is out for PC Id be first to invest in a 7800gt if my rig cant handle it, we all know a FPS demands to a high spec but this is the first time (aside form EQ2) where a MMO demands top spec.
With VG the problem is that the game looks so dramaticly difference from Max settings to Min settings that it looks like 2 different games, Max setting = 2007, Min settings = 1998. It realy is that different and player on min settings will play differently from Max setting players, everyhting from low FPS to a shorter view distance, its not just visual.
6600oc 3200+ 2gis RAM and 10 minutes of tweaking and I only get lag or choppyness on zone resets and in the highly populated beginner areas.
A little forum reading and many issues are solved. It isn't perfect but there is much to learn to improve performance and bug work arounds. For example how to get bard songs to cast when they hang up.
Learn is half the battle and it seems most "beta testers" (in almost every beta I have been in) can't read.
Isn't the point of a beta to tell them (the devs) which bugs need fixed, and not to fix them yourself?
Fair enough, Please point me to the research that shows that; "WOW was a huge success was b/c it wasnt hard on your system and most could get by with average PC's".
Oh, I'm not saying it's any cleverer. It's just that you stressed your opinion more, with that "good day", and that sounded rather silly to me. Especially since you discounted a good (even if exaggerated) argument.
It's not just this poster's opinion that system requirements are a factor in WoW's success (google a little). Also, it makes sense from my general experience with gamers. A lot of gamers limit their gaming experience to their current system, instead of upgrading their system to match new games. Even when they do upgrade, they don't upgrade to the top of the line. High end graphics cards sell a lot less than mid-range ones, and that's a fact.
So a game aiming at the highest end card as its comfort zone is limiting its audience.
I think that the original point is valid: make Vanguard look good and play well out of the box, and people are more likely to stay with it. First impressions count, and gamers who aren't already fans of a game don't want to have to spend time tweaking and looking up information about that. There are enough games that require a lot less of that.
I can understand having to upgrade for a next gen game, but the problem with vanguard is that its graphics aren't that much better than whats out there but require an upgrade. I could understand if the graphics were truly ground breaking, but they aren't. If I saw a random screenies of the game i'd think I was looking at EQ2 screenies(which I might add, I can play that game fine w/o any lag). If the specs come in line with the quality of the graphics then I might play it; but, as it stands, i'll wait a few months and see what happens.
Isn't the point of a beta to tell them (the devs) which bugs need fixed, and not to fix them yourself?
If they read the forums then they would know the fixes and temp solutions the dev have implemented as well as why some bugs are currently unrepairable.
90%+ of the complaints people are shouting are things already with solutions or on the known as a bug list. Now the gameplay on the otherhand is just not that good.
Threads like this point out the main problem with a game being pushed to release so quickly.
Those of us who played through the betas expected poor performance, and high system requirements, that is why they ask your specs when you sign up for beta, they know the game will not be optomized yet.
It's my belief that if they werent being pushed to show a profit and release this game, it would be going a lot differently. Beta 3 should have been more quest/play debugging, beta 4 should have worked on optomizing, and beta 5 (open) should have been a short preview time while fixing minor bugs.
What's happening now? Potential customers are being pushed away by a game that was not ready for open beta yet.
who is to blame? I can't imagine Sigil pushing a game this hard which leads me to believe they have SOE standing over their shoulders saying "when will this be on the shelves? do it faster"
Will it ruin the game? eh... I guarantee I'll wait a few months after release and try it again, anyone that plays this right away might be in for some frustrations.
Retired from WoW Rebellion - 60 Warlock || Kalaa - 60 Warrior Littlerebel - 60 Hunter || Albie - 60 Shaman Played: Erm, a lot more.
Threads like this point out the main problem with a game being pushed to release so quickly.
Those of us who played through the betas expected poor performance, and high system requirements, that is why they ask your specs when you sign up for beta, they know the game will not be optomized yet.
It's my belief that if they werent being pushed to show a profit and release this game, it would be going a lot differently. Beta 3 should have been more quest/play debugging, beta 4 should have worked on optomizing, and beta 5 (open) should have been a short preview time while fixing minor bugs.
What's happening now? Potential customers are being pushed away by a game that was not ready for open beta yet.
who is to blame? I can't imagine Sigil pushing a game this hard which leads me to believe they have SOE standing over their shoulders saying "when will this be on the shelves? do it faster"
Will it ruin the game? eh... I guarantee I'll wait a few months after release and try it again, anyone that plays this right away might be in for some frustrations.
SOE madness.... When you are out of money, you are out of money. What part are you guys not understanding ?
I'm not saying it's in perfect shape (no mmo is and ever will), but if they have to release because they are out of money, well, release dammit and keep working on it...
You guys are paying EVE, WoW, etc x$ a month for reasons : bug fixing, new content and new features. Just like the VG players will do when game gets released.
If anythign this thread shows how silly it is to give away beta keys with a retail sale. All those people bught the game and seem to be under the assumption that a beta should function as well as a retail box. They expect everythign to be explained to them with sock puppets and being hand lead through EVERYTHING. There are people complaining that "I" doesn't bring up the inventory for example.
They also have no idea they are resetting zones on a regular basis as bug fixes are being applied. Instead all you read in red text is "crash" "it is crashing AGAIN" and similar.
I don't have much sympathy for people who think they should be playing a gold release game because they got a number in a box.
I can not wait to see the open beta of, AoC, WAR, LoTRO .......... Are people will scream about preformance to because they thought they can run the game on their WoW Pc? People are complaining because they have to upgrade and it cost around 400$-500$, but they were willing to pay up to 9000$ for a PS3 on E-Bay.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
I would like to add that my computer will be 3 years old this April. I'm running a P4 3.2 Ghz proc with AGP Nvidia 6600 GT , 2 Gig Ram on balanced and the game runs pretty damned smooth for me, and still looks great too even on highest resolution. I'm totally stumped how people with 8800's are having problems myself, but hopefully, between now and launch, tech support will figure it all out. Either way, I wish everyone wanting to play the best of luck gettig things sorted out.
My computer is barely weaker than that, and I could run the game...barely. It would have been fine for a secondary access, to play on side stuff (tradeskills maybe), but I would not have want to play 50 hours on these setting.
However, I am tweak-illetrate. With tweaking I am sure it would have been a lot better, but I don't know how to do it myself. Althought my 27' HDVT-monitor is quite nice indeed, I am waiting on the right game to upgrade my PC, the longer I wait, the better the computer I will buy! So no rush really! As soon as the right game pop-up, I will do it. (The current computer was buyed for EQ2 release, and although I didn't play EQ2 much, I was counting on FFXI, which fail as well...and CoH catch me before I get angry with myself and buying a new computer for nada hehe) As to peoples talking about WoW requirements, ain't these like 8 year old or so (the game is more than 3 years old now, and it was always accessible, so a top-of-the-line computer of 1999 prolly run WoW without any troubles, no?)? Meaning that any computer able to run EQ should be able to run WoW? Just like I am waiting on the right game to buy a Wii and/or a PS3, until then, I wait...prices may only drop.
Anyway, I fall back to CoV and don't plan on quitting it till WAR! Later guys!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I think the real problem is that by "tweaking", you guys really mean editing the ini file to turn settings down lower then the sliders in the game allow. Sure it runs if you turn off everything that makes it look good. As others have said, it runs decent on the lowest setting, but looks terrible=. It can look really good, but to turn it up that high you need more ram and a better video card than most people have. If most people can't play it at a reasonable quality setting, they will just skip it.... especially when they have a system that will run every other graphics heavy game they ask it to.
Vanguard definitely has performance issues. I'm hoping that they get some of it fixed, but regardless there is no way that I'll be buying this title on release.
It's a cyclical process for fans of a game to scream "beta" and to expect that "miracle patch" at the end of beta that will fix everything and magically fix the major issues. The game then launches, they don't receive this magical miracle patch, and they're then strung along for a few months or so as they're told by the dev team to be patient for it.
Eventually the bitterness sets in because that miracle patch simply doesn't exist. Never has. For any game. Never will.
One can't expect a great deal of difference between an open beta client and a release client. Those who do expect that significant difference are in the above cycle. They will deny, argue, and basically jump up and down and act like a clown to "defend the faith".
What I do expect is for a few of the major issues to be fixed. What I would like to see fixed is the issue with loading objects, as that's the most significant issue that I am experiencing. Perhaps this is related to loading the chunks (aka, "zoning"), which is something that they're addressing. So we'll see.
Either way, I have more than enough experience with beta clients to know what to expect. Which isn't much. Those who aren't fans of the game really ought to stay away for four or five months after it releases.
As for the graphics, no, they're not particularly impressive. I play the game at highest quality setting*, and there is just nothing that makes me go "ohhh". EQ2, something that I'm a boarder line "hater" of, does indeed have far superior graphics than Vanguard.
* Highest quality setting with the following disabled: volumetric clouds, HDR, Bloom, & the third lighting option, the name of which I forget. Everything else is on.
Frame rate is 15 to 20 FPS, but the loading of objects takes too long and needs work.
Oh, yes, and as for posting on / reading the beta forums. That would be a useful suggestion if the OPEN beta forums weren't still restricted and all secret-like as though this was still a closed beta. Can't get into 'em. I'm told that I don't have access. Not that I particularly care at this point. Why they bother to still have the that open that option enabled at this point is beyond me and seems mind numbingly ridicules.
Vanguard definitely has performance issues. I'm hoping that they get some of it fixed, but regardless there is no way that I'll be buying this title on release.
It's a cyclical process for fans of a game to scream "beta" and to expect that "miracle patch" at the end of beta that will fix everything and magically fix the major issues. The game then launches, they don't receive this magical miracle patch, and they're then strung along for a few months or so as they're told by the dev team to be patient for it.
Eventually the bitterness sets in because that miracle patch simply doesn't exist. Never has. For any game. Never will.
One can't expect a great deal of difference between an open beta client and a release client. Those who do expect that significant difference are in the above cycle. They will deny, argue, and basically jump up and down and act like a clown to "defend the faith".
What I do expect is for a few of the major issues to be fixed. What I would like to see fixed is the issue with loading objects, as that's the most significant issue that I am experiencing. Perhaps this is related to loading the chunks (aka, "zoning"), which is something that they're addressing. So we'll see.
Either way, I have more than enough experience with beta clients to know what to expect. Which isn't much. Those who aren't fans of the game really ought to stay away for four or five months after it releases.
As for the graphics, no, they're not particularly impressive. I play the game at highest quality setting*, and there is just nothing that makes me go "ohhh". EQ2, something that I'm a boarder line "hater" of, does indeed have far superior graphics than Vanguard.
* Highest quality setting with the following disabled: volumetric clouds, HDR, Bloom, & the third lighting option, the name of which I forget. Everything else is on.
Frame rate is 15 to 20 FPS, but the loading of objects takes too long and needs work.
Oh, yes, and as for posting on / reading the beta forums. That would be a useful suggestion if the OPEN beta forums weren't still restricted and all secret-like as though this was still a closed beta. Can't get into 'em. I'm told that I don't have access. Not that I particularly care at this point. Why they bother to still have the that open enabled at this point is beyond me and seems mind numbingly ridicules.
~Mysk
I have played a rediculous amount of MMOs including EQ2 and these graphics are 100X better than that crap game. I atleast try just about every MMO out there and this game looks more appealing than any that I have played by far. EQ2 looked better than WoW but thats not saying anything....but looking better than this game... I seriously want some of those shrooms you are eating =/
I can not wait to see the open beta of, AoC, WAR, LoTRO .......... Are people will scream about preformance to because they thought they can run the game on their WoW Pc? People are complaining because they have to upgrade and it cost around 400$-500$, but they were willing to pay up to 9000$ for a PS3 on E-Bay.
The problem being though, I do have a top-end computer as I work for a Multi-media Entertainment Corporation (as the CEO) and require it for video and graphics. And my performance in VG is atrocious. Sorry, no way in hell I am going to edit files and start altering things to make it run better. Learn to code better. Yes, it is Beta, but it is also Open Beta, and unless they do a ton of performance adjustments before launch within the next 60 days to make to the Q1 deadline: forget it. That's why I spent $10 on pre-order, and didn't just wait and drop $50 to try it.
I understand a WoW rig, for those playing on it, should not be expected to run VG, but Sigil/SOE should also understand that without that ability, and without it being visually enjoyable, they are not going to grab any of that WoW market that SOE so desperately wants, pure and simple. WAR has a shot of doing so (unless EA Mythic also drops the ball), but thus far VG does not at all.
Additionally, unless they fix and tweak a hell of a lot during Open Beta, SOE also lost an Access Pass. Since I don't play MxO or SWG- two dead games- there is little point in paying $24.95/mo for Access Pass when $14.95/mo will suffice for EQ2. I don't need the 4 extra EQ2 slots, and the three adventure packs will cost me a one-time fee of $21.00. VG was the only savior for Access Pass for the next year or more until DC Online hits (unless Cryptic sells me on Marvel Online).
I do believe this is what developers call "beta testing" which is when they work out finalizing utility setups and other end details before prepping for a release.
When it's open beta it is now "what you play now is what you'll play in release"
Out of 10 years of MMOing, I have never seen a MMO that radically or even somewhat changed their game in th eir final beta. Never.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
That is why the game will fail. One of the main reasons why WOW was a huge success was b/c it wasnt hard on your system and most could get by with average PC's. If you think people are going to spend a lot of money to upgrade or buy a mega system just to play it and have SOE name next to it... your crazy.
*Ding* *Ding* *Ding*
We have a WINNAR!!!
Some of you fanbois will understand that post above me in about 3 months, the rest of you it will probably take longer. It just depends on how tight your lips are attached to Vanguard...
------------------------------ You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
I do believe this is what developers call "beta testing" which is when they work out finalizing utility setups and other end details before prepping for a release.
When it's open beta it is now "what you play now is what you'll play in release"
Out of 10 years of MMOing, I have never seen a MMO that radically or even somewhat changed their game in th eir final beta. Never.
I've Beta Tested:
Anarchy Online, CoH, CoV, SWG, MxO, EQ2, and WoW. All closed beta and on. And I have to agree, that once it hit Open Beta, that was pretty much it.
If that also holds true for VG . . . *sigh* . . . count this subscriber out. That three-day head start will also speak volumes.
Comments
1. Still beta
2. Release date is Q1 2007
3. 1 week of work on a patch can do wonders (seen it many times)
Also Open betas can be for several reasons:
1. Server stress tests
2. Game optimization
3. Reading 300 pages of whine from stuff they have not found yet (altho it is kind of expected for this to be resolved within closed beta)
Please remember people, Q1 means january-march, this gives a good 2+ months before release backline not to mention moving releasedates in the gaming industry is more common than rare. If you want to express your oppinion on how bad a game is do it on a released game, not a beta. (you do not judge a painting before it is done)
And believeing that a game released in the year 2007 should work at all on an adapter from 2002 is absolutely ridiculous. People do upgrade to play games, otherwise there would be no need for new technology. You're in for a short sharp shock if you think a 6800 will cut it for most of this years games. It's almost 3 years old now. I'd suggest that some of you go buy a 360 or a PS3. You will not be happy with PC gaming with the expectations you have.
Well my system 6800, 1.5gig ram, AMD'64 3200 can run Company of heroes on medium/max settings and that was realsed just 4-5 months ago and is a next gen game.As soon as Gears of war or UnrealTournament 2007 is out for PC Id be first to invest in a 7800gt if my rig cant handle it, we all know a FPS demands to a high spec but this is the first time (aside form EQ2) where a MMO demands top spec.
With VG the problem is that the game looks so dramaticly difference from Max settings to Min settings that it looks like 2 different games, Max setting = 2007, Min settings = 1998. It realy is that different and player on min settings will play differently from Max setting players, everyhting from low FPS to a shorter view distance, its not just visual.
While I think you're talking nonsense (with regard to Vanguard, which is not Crysis, and probably not even Far Cry), I also think that a beta should not be compared in terms of speed to a released game. There's a lot of scope for optimisation, and I think that the beta is more useful for tweakig gameplay than tweaking graphics -- which can be done with less user feedback.
While I think you're talking nonsense (with regard to Vanguard, which is not Crysis, and probably not even Far Cry), I also think that a beta should not be compared in terms of speed to a released game. There's a lot of scope for optimisation, and I think that the beta is more useful for tweakig gameplay than tweaking graphics -- which can be done with less user feedback.
I dont really care for the opinion of someone who cant accept the cold hard facts of PC gaming. You made mention of the 9800 which is why I said 2002. You'll note that I did actually remark that your card was 3 years old. You can think I'm talking nonsense all you want. If you want to play next gen games, you need next gen hardware. I wouldn't really call CoH "next gen" per ce, although I will agree it is a very good game. Try R6 : Vegas or Splinter Cell : DA. They are proper next gen titles, especially R6.
This is not why WOW was a sucess. Thank you, good day.
6600oc 3200+ 2gis RAM and 10 minutes of tweaking and I only get lag or choppyness on zone resets and in the highly populated beginner areas.
A little forum reading and many issues are solved. It isn't perfect but there is much to learn to improve performance and bug work arounds. For example how to get bard songs to cast when they hang up.
Learn is half the battle and it seems most "beta testers" (in almost every beta I have been in) can't read.
6600oc 3200+ 2gis RAM and 10 minutes of tweaking and I only get lag or choppyness on zone resets and in the highly populated beginner areas.
A little forum reading and many issues are solved. It isn't perfect but there is much to learn to improve performance and bug work arounds. For example how to get bard songs to cast when they hang up.
Learn is half the battle and it seems most "beta testers" (in almost every beta I have been in) can't read.
Isn't the point of a beta to tell them (the devs) which bugs need fixed, and not to fix them yourself?
Fair enough, Please point me to the research that shows that;
"WOW was a huge success was b/c it wasnt hard on your system and most could get by with average PC's".
It's not just this poster's opinion that system requirements are a factor in WoW's success (google a little). Also, it makes sense from my general experience with gamers. A lot of gamers limit their gaming experience to their current system, instead of upgrading their system to match new games. Even when they do upgrade, they don't upgrade to the top of the line. High end graphics cards sell a lot less than mid-range ones, and that's a fact.
So a game aiming at the highest end card as its comfort zone is limiting its audience.
I think that the original point is valid: make Vanguard look good and play well out of the box, and people are more likely to stay with it. First impressions count, and gamers who aren't already fans of a game don't want to have to spend time tweaking and looking up information about that. There are enough games that require a lot less of that.
If they read the forums then they would know the fixes and temp solutions the dev have implemented as well as why some bugs are currently unrepairable.
90%+ of the complaints people are shouting are things already with solutions or on the known as a bug list. Now the gameplay on the otherhand is just not that good.
Keep on hammering this game FOR NO REASONS AT ALL, you might make it fail....
not.
eqnext.wikia.com
Those of us who played through the betas expected poor performance, and high system requirements, that is why they ask your specs when you sign up for beta, they know the game will not be optomized yet.
It's my belief that if they werent being pushed to show a profit and release this game, it would be going a lot differently. Beta 3 should have been more quest/play debugging, beta 4 should have worked on optomizing, and beta 5 (open) should have been a short preview time while fixing minor bugs.
What's happening now? Potential customers are being pushed away by a game that was not ready for open beta yet.
who is to blame? I can't imagine Sigil pushing a game this hard which leads me to believe they have SOE standing over their shoulders saying "when will this be on the shelves? do it faster"
Will it ruin the game? eh... I guarantee I'll wait a few months after release and try it again, anyone that plays this right away might be in for some frustrations.
Retired from WoW
Rebellion - 60 Warlock || Kalaa - 60 Warrior
Littlerebel - 60 Hunter || Albie - 60 Shaman
Played: Erm, a lot more.
SOE madness.... When you are out of money, you are out of money. What part are you guys not understanding ?
I'm not saying it's in perfect shape (no mmo is and ever will), but if they have to release because they are out of money, well, release dammit and keep working on it...
You guys are paying EVE, WoW, etc x$ a month for reasons : bug fixing, new content and new features. Just like the VG players will do when game gets released.
eqnext.wikia.com
If anythign this thread shows how silly it is to give away beta keys with a retail sale. All those people bught the game and seem to be under the assumption that a beta should function as well as a retail box. They expect everythign to be explained to them with sock puppets and being hand lead through EVERYTHING. There are people complaining that "I" doesn't bring up the inventory for example.
They also have no idea they are resetting zones on a regular basis as bug fixes are being applied. Instead all you read in red text is "crash" "it is crashing AGAIN" and similar.
I don't have much sympathy for people who think they should be playing a gold release game because they got a number in a box.
Get a life you freaking Gamer.....no no, you don't understand, I'm a Gamer, I have many lives!!
My computer is barely weaker than that, and I could run the game...barely. It would have been fine for a secondary access, to play on side stuff (tradeskills maybe), but I would not have want to play 50 hours on these setting.
However, I am tweak-illetrate. With tweaking I am sure it would have been a lot better, but I don't know how to do it myself. Althought my 27' HDVT-monitor is quite nice indeed, I am waiting on the right game to upgrade my PC, the longer I wait, the better the computer I will buy! So no rush really! As soon as the right game pop-up, I will do it. (The current computer was buyed for EQ2 release, and although I didn't play EQ2 much, I was counting on FFXI, which fail as well...and CoH catch me before I get angry with myself and buying a new computer for nada hehe) As to peoples talking about WoW requirements, ain't these like 8 year old or so (the game is more than 3 years old now, and it was always accessible, so a top-of-the-line computer of 1999 prolly run WoW without any troubles, no?)? Meaning that any computer able to run EQ should be able to run WoW? Just like I am waiting on the right game to buy a Wii and/or a PS3, until then, I wait...prices may only drop.
Anyway, I fall back to CoV and don't plan on quitting it till WAR! Later guys!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
It's a cyclical process for fans of a game to scream "beta" and to expect that "miracle patch" at the end of beta that will fix everything and magically fix the major issues. The game then launches, they don't receive this magical miracle patch, and they're then strung along for a few months or so as they're told by the dev team to be patient for it.
Eventually the bitterness sets in because that miracle patch simply doesn't exist. Never has. For any game. Never will.
One can't expect a great deal of difference between an open beta client and a release client. Those who do expect that significant difference are in the above cycle. They will deny, argue, and basically jump up and down and act like a clown to "defend the faith".
What I do expect is for a few of the major issues to be fixed. What I would like to see fixed is the issue with loading objects, as that's the most significant issue that I am experiencing. Perhaps this is related to loading the chunks (aka, "zoning"), which is something that they're addressing. So we'll see.
Either way, I have more than enough experience with beta clients to know what to expect. Which isn't much. Those who aren't fans of the game really ought to stay away for four or five months after it releases.
As for the graphics, no, they're not particularly impressive. I play the game at highest quality setting*, and there is just nothing that makes me go "ohhh". EQ2, something that I'm a boarder line "hater" of, does indeed have far superior graphics than Vanguard.
* Highest quality setting with the following disabled: volumetric clouds, HDR, Bloom, & the third lighting option, the name of which I forget. Everything else is on.
Frame rate is 15 to 20 FPS, but the loading of objects takes too long and needs work.
Oh, yes, and as for posting on / reading the beta forums. That would be a useful suggestion if the OPEN beta forums weren't still restricted and all secret-like as though this was still a closed beta. Can't get into 'em. I'm told that I don't have access. Not that I particularly care at this point. Why they bother to still have the that open that option enabled at this point is beyond me and seems mind numbingly ridicules.
~Mysk
edit: typos FTL
I have played a rediculous amount of MMOs including EQ2 and these graphics are 100X better than that crap game. I atleast try just about every MMO out there and this game looks more appealing than any that I have played by far. EQ2 looked better than WoW but thats not saying anything....but looking better than this game... I seriously want some of those shrooms you are eating =/The problem being though, I do have a top-end computer as I work for a Multi-media Entertainment Corporation (as the CEO) and require it for video and graphics. And my performance in VG is atrocious. Sorry, no way in hell I am going to edit files and start altering things to make it run better. Learn to code better. Yes, it is Beta, but it is also Open Beta, and unless they do a ton of performance adjustments before launch within the next 60 days to make to the Q1 deadline: forget it. That's why I spent $10 on pre-order, and didn't just wait and drop $50 to try it.
I understand a WoW rig, for those playing on it, should not be expected to run VG, but Sigil/SOE should also understand that without that ability, and without it being visually enjoyable, they are not going to grab any of that WoW market that SOE so desperately wants, pure and simple. WAR has a shot of doing so (unless EA Mythic also drops the ball), but thus far VG does not at all.
Additionally, unless they fix and tweak a hell of a lot during Open Beta, SOE also lost an Access Pass. Since I don't play MxO or SWG- two dead games- there is little point in paying $24.95/mo for Access Pass when $14.95/mo will suffice for EQ2. I don't need the 4 extra EQ2 slots, and the three adventure packs will cost me a one-time fee of $21.00. VG was the only savior for Access Pass for the next year or more until DC Online hits (unless Cryptic sells me on Marvel Online).
Out of 10 years of MMOing, I have never seen a MMO that radically or even somewhat changed their game in th eir final beta. Never.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
We have a WINNAR!!!
Some of you fanbois will understand that post above me in about 3 months, the rest of you it will probably take longer. It just depends on how tight your lips are attached to Vanguard...
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You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
Out of 10 years of MMOing, I have never seen a MMO that radically or even somewhat changed their game in th eir final beta. Never.
I've Beta Tested:
Anarchy Online, CoH, CoV, SWG, MxO, EQ2, and WoW. All closed beta and on. And I have to agree, that once it hit Open Beta, that was pretty much it.
If that also holds true for VG . . . *sigh* . . . count this subscriber out. That three-day head start will also speak volumes.