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What kind of PvP Will AOC have?
Kilim
Member Posts: 546
I will admit, I haven't looked much into AoC.
I like PvP and prefer a FFA PvP type game if someone can make it possible.
With that said.
What kind of PvP will AoC have?
Will it be Arena based? Team Based? FFA?
Will there be level limits?
What will be the Risk/Reward system be like?
Just any info about the PvP for this upcoming MMO.
I like PvP and prefer a FFA PvP type game if someone can make it possible.
With that said.
What kind of PvP will AoC have?
Will it be Arena based? Team Based? FFA?
Will there be level limits?
What will be the Risk/Reward system be like?
Just any info about the PvP for this upcoming MMO.
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Comments
community.ageofconan.com
And you want to go to their FaQ Section under "3.0 PvP and Siege Combat"
~Hojoko
Just read their is a good possibility for a FFA PvP Server
Kinda iffy on the Blood Money thing.
Reminds me of the WoW PvP rewards.
Hopefully FFA PvP will be great and just now giving AoC a good eye for its upcoming release as well.
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For the sake of these questions, I am talking about a PvP ruleset server. I am also working with incomplete information at this time, so while I'd be willing to bet heavily on this version of events that I have pieced together from what I do know, I can't guarantee it is exactly like I've laid out here.
FFA PvP in all regions except for certain areas such as the spawn points to prevent chain killing.
In certain regions, while you are cabable in terms of the game mechanics to strike down your fellow players, doing so will earn you NPCs howling for your head, this is mainly confined to the cities, and assumes that you get caught by said NPC guards. Mind your actions, for they do in fact have consequenses.
PvP arenas do exist, with both 1V1 matches and team combat.
Taverns are home to drunken brawling PvP, essentially a free for all in which about ten to twelve players duke it out with their fists, bottle, broken barstools and anything else they can get their hands on, level and gear means nothing. Your fighting ability is affected by how much and of what type of drink your character was chugging before the brawl.
There is a form of level limit, players can attack each other irregardless of level, but if Player A is significantly lower than player B, player A gets an automatic but temporary boost to his stats, essentially leveling him up to his attackers level, this does not grant him the skills that he would normally get by leveling up. The idea is that with the boost to his stats, while player A is still at a major disadvantage, he has a fighting (or running) chance as opposed to being killed in maybe two hits.
Risk/reward in PvP, there is the temporary stat loss and XP loss normally associated with death, and possibly item degredation. In PvP, your killer has the opportunity to loot a portion of your stored "blood money", but none of your equipment or other items. You cannot store blood money in a bank, as such there is always something for you to lose if you get careless.
Blood money is a special form of currency, it is used to buy items and equipment off of the black market. These items are specifically made for PvP, and have little to no use in PvE. The only way to acquire more blood money is from the corpses of defeated opponents, although everyone starts out with a small sum.
The endgame revolves around PvP sieges, the borderlands are a large region of the wilderness that king Conan wishes to see settled. As such he is giving out land grants to anyone who thinks he can hold onto it. Guilds have the opportunity to build a fully functional battlekeep in the borderlands, and wage war with other guilds for control of the precious resources in the area. A PvE seige system also exists, nearly identical in terms of theory, with the differences lying in terms of the nature of your opponent, where the battlekeep in question is built, and the potential rewards.
A PvE ruleset server is essentially the same on all points except in that the FFA PvP is confined to the borderlands and other places such as the arenas
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Also, This game Facilitates the Elitist Guild mentality?
Meaning you will also need to be in a Guild to do well, practically making it mandatory.
This true?
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I don't know where you heard about 40 man raids, but I can asure you that they will NOT be in AoC. However, there is raids in AoC. Instead of having raids mean "You shall spend the rest of all time grinding through the same instance over and over again" like in WoW. A raid in AoC has to do with the PvE player cities. When you start your city another NPC controled one will begin to build itself up, until they have a large enough army to attack your city. The raids in AoC are when you and your friends deside to return the favor and lay waste to their city.
While many of the features of AoC are made for guilds, you don't have to join one if you don't want to. People not in guilds will still be able to travel to any guild city they wish, and aid them on their siege of the NPCs, thereby gaining raid loot completly guild free. Also you will still be able to cruise the border kingdom(a FFA PvP zone) killing anyone you wish. As well as being able to be a merc, going around, and selling your sword to the highest bidder looking for aid in the epic battles over battlekeeps.
Finally AoC is the one game I've found that plans on having crafting items that will be equal/very close, to the best "uber" lootz. So even if you don't want to spend a lot of time in PvE, or guilds, you can still have equipment on par with those that nothing better to do then farm all day.
Oh, and the one thing Aelf forgot to mention was that you will also be able to buy special PvP skills with blood money.
I guess I will just play Vanguard FFA PvP server when its released, then try out AoC FFA PvP Server when it comes out then try out WAR later this year.
Trying to find a good PvP game is hard lol.
So much craptastic games has been released and hopefully this year, 1 of them can do it right.
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I know what you mean, been looking for a good PvP game myself for a while, but I think I've found my future home.
Personally I don't see Vanguards PvP being any better then EQ2s, which is, horrible. This is mainly because both games were made 100% for PvE.
I'll keep an eye on WAR, but I'm just so tired of the feeling like I'm playing in those saturday morning cartoons I use to watch. Plus DAoCs RvR is very poorly balanced even though Mythic has had how long to try to even it out?
Good luck on your quest, hope to see ya in Hyboria.
I gota read the AoC page to the end first, but it seems there is more dissinformation here than information..
Like all the stuff you've read here is here because that is what they know you want to hear, but like I said, need to finish reading the page first
sweet.
Anything would be better than the pvp system in WoW.
WTB Classic Mordred
The best gear will require raiding, and several character development options are only available if you're in a guild and have the guildmaster's approval, so I'd say that's a whopping yes. You will definately either have to raid or be second rate, though the devs have said their raids will be sized more like WOW's expansion raids (25-man and some smaller) rather than 40-man ones.
The best gear will require raiding, and several character development options are only available if you're in a guild and have the guildmaster's approval, so I'd say that's a whopping yes. You will definately either have to raid or be second rate, though the devs have said their raids will be sized more like WOW's expansion raids (25-man and some smaller) rather than 40-man ones.
being in a guild, will help but no you dont really have to have a guild to be good
and the raiding part crafting will be just as good the best gear wont really have to be gotten through raid but yes the 25 and smaller raids will give great gear but you wont have to raid to be good in PVP
The best gear will require raiding, and several character development options are only available if you're in a guild and have the guildmaster's approval, so I'd say that's a whopping yes. You will definately either have to raid or be second rate, though the devs have said their raids will be sized more like WOW's expansion raids (25-man and some smaller) rather than 40-man ones.
You need to stop trying to spread this rumor. The devs have repeatedly stated that raiding will provide a much smaller bonus than games like WoW and will be less 'hardcore' focused in the first place, as well as PvP providing its own bonuses to help balance things out.
I know that MMO devs don't tell the truth the whole time. But until we've played the game, there is nothing else to go on. Your opinions have no basis (yet, at least) and should not be presented as fact.
In other words: It's going to be raid or second rate, exactly like I said. The devs say that it's not going to be as bad as WOW, but that the nonraider will most definately be worse off than raiders. "Raid or be second-rate, but not AS second-rate as WOW" still provides you with only two choices, raid or be second-rate. If it's just "this rumor", why did you just post agreeing that you think it's true?
The developers have said that this is a game in which your choices are to raid or be second rate. If you think that they're lying when they say it that's your perogative. However, don't try to pretend that I'm doing anything but reporting what the devs have said.
In other words: It's going to be raid or second rate, exactly like I said. The devs say that it's not going to be as bad as WOW, but that the nonraider will most definately be worse off than raiders. "Raid or be second-rate, but not AS second-rate as WOW" still provides you with only two choices, raid or be second-rate. If it's just "this rumor", why did you just post agreeing that you think it's true?
The developers have said that this is a game in which your choices are to raid or be second rate. If you think that they're lying when they say it that's your perogative. However, don't try to pretend that I'm doing anything but reporting what the devs have said.
Second rate for what? PvP? Again, there is a system of rewards for PvP which should hopefully be far more balanced against PvE than other games. Sure, if somebody does a lot of raiding AND a lot of PvP, they'll be better. But they've stated several times that somebody who only raids will get stomped in PvP.
Crafting THAT REQUIRES DROPS FROM RAIDS, sure it will be as good. But I consider items crafted from raid drops to be raid rewards, so this doesn't contradict anything I've said.
The exact same size raids as WOW has as of 2 hours ago.
Right, you'll just have to raid to not be second-rate in PVP and PVE. The devs repeatedly say that your second-rate gear will only be somewhat inferior, that raid gear won't be fifty times better (an odd claim, even WOW raid gear doesn't outpace nonraid gear by fifty times), and so on.
PVP and PVE.
In other words, I'm completely right: if you don't raid, you end up second rate. Why do you guys get so agitated when you keep backing up exactly what I'm saying?
Which is completely irrelevant to whether or not someone who DOESN'T RAID will be second rate compared to someone who DOES RAID. And it's also interesting that you're not even touching on PVE; is that because you expect raid gear to provide a larger advantage in PVE?
PVP and PVE.
In other words, I'm completely right: if you don't raid, you end up second rate. Why do you guys get so agitated when you keep backing up exactly what I'm saying?
Which is completely irrelevant to whether or not someone who DOESN'T RAID will be second rate compared to someone who DOES RAID. And it's also interesting that you're not even touching on PVE; is that because you expect raid gear to provide a larger advantage in PVE?
Well, I'm not really sure how much end-game PVE they plan other than raids, so I'm not really commenting on that.
I really don't really get your point either. Not raiding will disadvantage you. You're right. Not PvPing will also disadvantage you. Not PvEing will disadvantage you too! These things are all rewarded. Thats obvious. But I don't think that raiding is going to be more influencing than PvPing.
Also, as raiding won't be as large or as time consuming as WoW, as far as they've said, it shouldn't exclude nearly as many people as it does in EQ and WoW. So its not like people will be completely barred from being able to compete in raiding as per those games. Raiding is going to be part of the game and I don't see a problem with that as long as it doesn't get out of hand.
And 'second rate' implies some sort of huge power gap. From the dev quotes so far, it looks like it might be what, a 10% gap? They've specifically stated that items will be the smallest modifier on your skills unlike, say, WoW, where they can easily become the largest. I just don't see what you're fussing about.
The title of the thread specifically refers to PvP. You implied that people who PvPed more than they raided would be poor against those who raided more than they PvPed in PvP. Yet, according to the devs, this is not the case; the reverse is true.
So, if you don't raid you'll be second-rate, just like I said. I'm not sure why you guys keep arguing with me but at the same time admit that I am completely, 100% accurate in my assessment of the game.
According to dictionary.com, it means:
In other words, what I mean is that if you don't raid your gear will be "inferior" and "of lesser or minor quality" compared to that of raiders.
Please consult a dictionary first if you're going to argue about the meaning of terms, I generally choose my words pretty carefully and know quite well what they mean in general usage.
Let me try to spell it out:
1. I play games for fun.
2. I do not find raiding to be fun.
3. I do not find being forever condemned to be second-rate in a game to be fun.
4. Therefore, Age of Conan is not a game that I want to play as my choice is between two things that are not fun for me.
I'm not sure why something this basic is so hard for you guys to grasp.
I said quite clearly that if you don't raid you will be second rate, I didn't make anything stating or even implying something like the above. Don't invent twisty strawman arguments and pretend that I somehow 'implied' them, just respond to things that I've actually said.
So, if you don't raid you'll be second-rate, just like I said. I'm not sure why you guys keep arguing with me but at the same time admit that I am completely, 100% accurate in my assessment of the game.
According to dictionary.com, it means:
In other words, what I mean is that if you don't raid your gear will be "inferior" and "of lesser or minor quality" compared to that of raiders.
Please consult a dictionary first if you're going to argue about the meaning of terms, I generally choose my words pretty carefully and know quite well what they mean in general usage.
Let me try to spell it out:
1. I play games for fun.
2. I do not find raiding to be fun.
3. I do not find being forever condemned to be second-rate in a game to be fun.
4. Therefore, Age of Conan is not a game that I want to play as my choice is between two things that are not fun for me.
I'm not sure why something this basic is so hard for you guys to grasp.
I said quite clearly that if you don't raid you will be second rate, I didn't make anything stating or even implying something like the above. Don't invent twisty strawman arguments and pretend that I somehow 'implied' them, just respond to things that I've actually said.
You've yet to provide any proof that raiding will have rewards significantly better than other activities. And as you've degenerated into dictionary definitions, a lot of tiny selective quotes and outright flame baiting, I have nothing else to say. If you think WAR is better, fine, go ahead. But I really don't see why you feel the need to try and spread false information and troll the AoC boards.
I'm not going to bother finding the dev quotes on this, since you just got done saying "Not raiding will disadvantage you. You're right." in your last post. "Significantly" is nothing but a weasel word here, and is a qualifier that you added in, not me.
It's the only way to combat your degeneration into pretending that a common term means something that it doesn't. Second-rate has a very clear meaning, I don't see what I'm supposed to do other than quote a dictionary if you're going to try to pretend that it means something different.
I quote for context of what I'm responding to, anyone with an ounce of sense can scroll up to see the whole thing if they think I'm dropping relevant context. Your habit of quoting the entire post is completely useless since this is a message board and anyone can scroll up if they want to see the whole thing.
That's what's so completely bizarre to me about these conversations. I stated that if you don't raid in AOC you'll be second rate. You've said that you agree, "Not raiding will disadvantage you. You're right." , and the various dev quotes on the topic have been posted ad nauseum. Yet for some reason you and your ilk claim that I'm spreading false information!
So, if you don't raid you'll be second-rate, just like I said. I'm not sure why you guys keep arguing with me but at the same time admit that I am completely, 100% accurate in my assessment of the game.
According to dictionary.com, it means:
In other words, what I mean is that if you don't raid your gear will be "inferior" and "of lesser or minor quality" compared to that of raiders.
Please consult a dictionary first if you're going to argue about the meaning of terms, I generally choose my words pretty carefully and know quite well what they mean in general usage.
Let me try to spell it out:
1. I play games for fun.
2. I do not find raiding to be fun.
3. I do not find being forever condemned to be second-rate in a game to be fun.
4. Therefore, Age of Conan is not a game that I want to play as my choice is between two things that are not fun for me.
I'm not sure why something this basic is so hard for you guys to grasp.
I said quite clearly that if you don't raid you will be second rate, I didn't make anything stating or even implying something like the above. Don't invent twisty strawman arguments and pretend that I somehow 'implied' them, just respond to things that I've actually said.
You've yet to provide any proof that raiding will have rewards significantly better than other activities. And as you've degenerated into dictionary definitions, a lot of tiny selective quotes and outright flame baiting, I have nothing else to say. If you think WAR is better, fine, go ahead. But I really don't see why you feel the need to try and spread false information and troll the AoC boards. There's a quote by Jayde that says something along the lines that Raiding will be more difficult in most cases, and they intend to reward the most difficult content with better stuff. 2+2=4.
EDIT: Here's your quote about Raids from Jayde that has been put up several several times. Make it what you will:
"All I would point out here is that there are many MMO players that do enjoy "raiding." Given that well-coordinated raids are one of the harder things to execute in many situations, I think it would be inappropriate not to give raiders a tangible reward for their effort and successes in coordination.
This is not to say that smaller than 40-man groups cannot have situations that are difficult and rewarding, however, one must make sure that the raiding playstyle is rewarded as well.
Most arguments I see against raiding involve taking any substantial reward away from raids--which I personally think is a poor way of going about things. If you think about it logically, if for instance 5-man events gave as good of rewards as 40-man events, who would do 40-man events at all? Wouldn't the group of 40 people just do 4 simultanious 5-man events and get 4 times the reward?
After all, while 5-man situations can require a single person to have more weight than a 40-man raid, if you have an "elite" guild where all the players are at the higer end of the playskill spectrum, executing a 5-man event will be easier than a 40-man event. All other things being equal (player skill, difficulty, reward), raids are still harder to execute simply due to the need for large-scale coordination.
Given how many MMO player do enjoy raids and participation among larger guilds, I personally think removing any incentive and reward for executing them would be a big mistake."
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
OK Pantastic, first you've said that you play games for fun, but you don't like raiding. Well then when you max out a character, what do you do with him?
I'm have a hard time figuring out how you get that you will be 2nd rate in PvP from the released information. It has been stated that all item will have PvE AND PvP stats. Meaning that "uber" raid weapon wont be as effective in the border kingdoms. Also there will be 20 lv that of progression that can only be gained through PvP. There will be blood money, once again only obtainable through PvP, that you can use to buy PvP designed skills and items. Now my guess is that PvP sword that cost 50000 blood money or whatever is going to have much better PvP stats then the one that drops off the raid boss.
Now if your talking about PvE, this is differant, and where the fact that AoC is going to be more of guild based game in this area. Gaute himself has said that the best stuff in the game, your big loot drops, are going to come from the boss mobs that spawn in the NPC town that grown oppisite your guild city. The best materals will grow in the instanced areas that hold guild cities, and the building in the city will give bonuses to crafters skills. Then again it will not be required of you to go to join a guild to go to any of them you want. Gather your resources there, use their buildings, you can even sell the stuff you make there. You can also join guilds that need keep clearing out the NPC, without joining one, and still get raid loot.
So yea if your the type that enjoys playing alone, and never interacting with other people, or just soloing at max level instead of joining your friends to lay waste to hordes of enemies and burning their city to the ground. Your going to be second rate once you max out...but isn't that with every MMO?
the largest group size in AoC is 5 people, commanders can turn it into a raid however the largest raid size (if you have enough commanders) is 11 people. not exactly a large raid size of a group. so get the 20-40 people thing outta your head, the dev that was quoted was just using 20 mans and 40 mans as an example.
secand, you won't need to raid to get the raid gear. most items dropped from raids will be materials used in crafting, the crafted items can be sold, also there is no comments from devs saying that there will be bind on pickup items. But there are comments saying that even if you don't raid, you can still purchase items dropped in raids, whether there refferring to looted items or crafted is uncertain.
secand, player looting, on the hardcore pvp servers (which is all i care about) there will be item looted implmented down the road. so if someone raids and gets the best gear, he won't go pvp'ing in it cause when he dies, and he will die considering everyone will be targeting him, the killer can loot his corpse and take is great item. the devs are still uncertain how to go about this, the specific details are left out still cause its still in consideration, but the Devs have said they want to implement something so people are cautious what gear they take into the battlefield.
everyone is reffering to it as the risk vs reward.
atm only blood money is certian though for all servers for player looting.
this game is not a pvp carebear game like wow, it has nothing to do with wow, nothing like wow. this is the same developer team that created Anarchy Online. if you wish to be cattered and cared for, go to warhammer, or better yet Vanguard. you won't harm any of us not flooding our pvp game with crying and winning suggestions to change the game to better fit the pve'ers.