Horus & Jesus

Adreal · January 2007

I was browsing the http://www.ethicalatheist.com/ forums when I found a post linking me to this page from a website : http://www.kingdavid8.com/Copycat/JesusHorus.html

What do you guys think of it?

modjoe86 · January 2007

I don't think Jesus' story was directly copied from someone such as Horus, but that doesn't mean the story wasn't heavily influenced by such characters. I really don't know enough about the comparisons drawn between them, but some clearly christian-biased debunking of the link really doesn't prove anything to me.

Jackcolt · January 2007

Want to know what I think? I think every religious book should have a sticker saying "Content is purely fictional"

Adreal · January 2007

Originally posted by modjoe86

I don't think Jesus' story was directly copied from someone such as Horus, but that doesn't mean the story wasn't heavily influenced by such characters. I really don't know enough about the comparisons drawn between them, but some clearly christian-biased debunking of the link really doesn't prove anything to me.

Well, if it were to be directly copied from this story, then that would mean that the assertions that Jesus was just copied from another god would be false. If Jesus is supposedly directly copied from any one god, then that would mean that more than one assertion of Jesus being a copycat would be false. And... there are a few out there.

I'm not sure about the validity of the information on the link. Maybe some searching on the internet could yield some results. The page that I listed, though, outright claims the very opposite of one critic - boldly at that. Was the author of the page lying, hoping that no one would do their research and show how wrong they were? It kinda disturbs me to see two 'truths' that are so different from each other when supposedly we should have all or most of the information on the subject debated already unearthed.

Gameloading · January 2007

www.youtube.com/watch

that link shows exactly what Jesus has in common with previous Heroes and saviours

Adreal · January 2007

Originally posted by Jackcolt

Want to know what I think? I think every religious book should have a sticker saying "Content is purely fictional"

I'm only interested in hearing rational thoughts - not drastic leaps to conclusions based on personal biases. It would annoy me just as much if a Christian lied than had an atheist.

MW2K · January 2007

Interesting. There's no doubt the Egyptian faith had a major influence on the folk of the Levant area, Hittites, Akkadians, Israelites, etc. You can add the Phoenician and Minoan religions to that mix as well.

A word that comes to mind is: syncresis. Most faiths, new and old are uusally a hotchpotch of various faiths/myths that existed earlier.

Jesus is Horus though? A bit of a stretch.

Adreal · January 2007

Originally posted by Gameloading

www.youtube.com/watch

that link shows exactly what Jesus has in common with previous Heroes and saviours

I don't like listening to videos on major issues like this, primarily because I hate to rewind the video to listen to each comment made in order to validate it or invalidate it. With text I can just reread it at my own pace. I did watch the video though, and it seemed like the beginning speaker made at least one point that I barely caught and disagreed with. The others went by so fast that he may just as well have been quoting propaganda or half-truths. I don't really doubt that there are similarities between Jesus and other religious figures. Whether there are enough to say that Jesus was copied from them? I don't know. To say that Jesus was mythological because there are similarities in the tales of other figures to the Gospels is not entirely sound reasoning to me. To say that of any god that I believe to be false is not entirely sound reasoning. Those gods that I utterly refuse to believe in, I don't believe in because they have more than one aspect wrong with them. It's not just the aspect of having a few related experiences in their legends to the legends of other gods.

A while ago I read some ancient Caananite stories on Baal. I was annoyed by the specific translation because it used a phrase of words for Baal that was used in the English translation of some Bibles for God, word-for-word. I realized, though, as I've had some experience studying languages and I'm looking into becoming an interpreter, that it was probably impossible to use an exact phrase as taken from a specific translation of the Bible. So what was the phrase in the Caananite language? And why did the translator choose to translate it as he did? Because we were more familiar with it? I think it may have been the phrase: The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. So the translation of the Caananite tale of Baal was supposedly attributing this exact phrase of words to Baal.

Infliction · January 2007

Well if you've ever studied ancient mythologies, Greek and some others, you'd notice some striking similarities to many if not all of those written in the bible. And I think we know which came first

Adreal · January 2007

Originally posted by Infliction

Well if you've ever studied ancient mythologies, Greek and some others, you'd notice some striking similarities to many if not all of those written in the bible. And I think we know which came first

I have a little. Could you list some that you think were copied by Christians? Note that I do believe that there are some pagan elements influencing Christianity - but if you cannot show evidence for influence of the early beginnings of Christianity by pagan religions, then there's nothing to show. In other words, Christmas may've been pagan in origin but unless Christ is - you don't have much to prove, do you? You have to show that God was influenced by pagan religions and not just the traditions of Men added in later. If God was influenced in some significant way, then he likely isn't God but a fabrication. So, feel free to post anything up that you think could serve the purpose of showing that God might be a fake. I'll try to get back to it when I can.

HebrewBomb · January 2007

Very interesting subject you guys are having here ...

Before I open my mouth, I have one or two comments to make:

1. Skepticism and questioning are very healthy ration if not a must for any soul eager to learn something new but not unreasonably so...

2. Archetypes and images associated with specific objects aren't always as they are portrayed as they are.

When you multiply Saturnia's radii by Babylonian base number, you obtain greek Titan called Iapetus.

Spy_HIppo · January 2007

I'm just posting a comment like this cause I feel like saying it,but you guys in the off topic thing post a lot of things having to do with religions. I know this isn't a "what religion are you" thread,but still. I'm sorry I'm not posting anything related to the subject,I'm just really tired for some reason.

Infliction · January 2007

Originally posted by Adreal

Originally posted by Infliction

Well if you've ever studied ancient mythologies, Greek and some others, you'd notice some striking similarities to many if not all of those written in the bible. And I think we know which came first

I have a little. Could you list some that you think were copied by Christians? Note that I do believe that there are some pagan elements influencing Christianity - but if you cannot show evidence for influence of the early beginnings of Christianity by pagan religions, then there's nothing to show. In other words, Christmas may've been pagan in origin but unless Christ is - you don't have much to prove, do you? You have to show that God was influenced by pagan religions and not just the traditions of Men added in later. If God was influenced in some significant way, then he likely isn't God but a fabrication. So, feel free to post anything up that you think could serve the purpose of showing that God might be a fake. I'll try to get back to it when I can.

I don't think theres really much need here, nor do I feel the urge to go about reading Greek mythologies again at this time. But there are plenty of stories, the great flood being one of the bigger ones, that are almost copied word for word. There's also the fact that early religions were created as a means of controlling the populace (Egypt, anyone?). Soon though, I will probably start going through the painful process of reading through all sorts of religious and mythological (note, only difference between these terms is that one is currently practiced widely, and one is not) texts, because I have a great idea for a novel on the subject

Adreal · January 2007

Originally posted by HebrewBomb

Very interesting subject, you guys are having here ...

Before I open my mouth, I have one or two comments to make:

1. Skepticism and questioning is very healthy ration if not a must for any soul eager to learn something new but not unreasonably so...

2. Archytypes and images associated with specific objects aren't always as they are portrayed as they are.

When you multiply Saturnia's radii by Babylonian base number, you obtain greek Titan called Iapetus.

I sometimes wonder how skeptical so-called skeptics really are. Every person who has lived long enough believes in something. How skeptical are they of their own beliefs - Christian or not? Do they not question their own beliefs often because they're afraid to confront the possibility that their life is in need of change? Do they write off any attempts to explain otherwise because they are biased in their views and scared?

Adreal · January 2007

Originally posted by Infliction

Originally posted by Adreal

Originally posted by Infliction

Well if you've ever studied ancient mythologies, Greek and some others, you'd notice some striking similarities to many if not all of those written in the bible. And I think we know which came first

I have a little. Could you list some that you think were copied by Christians? Note that I do believe that there are some pagan elements influencing Christianity - but if you cannot show evidence for influence of the early beginnings of Christianity by pagan religions, then there's nothing to show. In other words, Christmas may've been pagan in origin but unless Christ is - you don't have much to prove, do you? You have to show that God was influenced by pagan religions and not just the traditions of Men added in later. If God was influenced in some significant way, then he likely isn't God but a fabrication. So, feel free to post anything up that you think could serve the purpose of showing that God might be a fake. I'll try to get back to it when I can.

I don't think theres really much need here, nor do I feel the urge to go about reading Greek mythologies again at this time. But there are plenty of stories, the great flood being one of the bigger ones, that are almost copied word for word. There's also the fact that early religions were created as a means of controlling the populace (Egypt, anyone?). Soon though, I will probably start going through the painful process of reading through all sorts of religious and mythological (note, only difference between these terms is that one is currently practiced widely, and one is not) texts, because I have a great idea for a novel on the subject

I don't really attempt to argue for the validity of other religions. I believe that there's some truth in other religions, but my beliefs - of course - tell me that they're largely lies. My beliefs are always open to change. In fact, I've even had a couple atheists bring me to logical conclusions on the Bible that I now accept. You won't learn as much as you normally would if you just took one group's advice or particular views on a subject. In time I will accept what seems reasonable to me and reject that which is not.

I'm currently reading a decent Christian book that tries to refute evolution. Currently on page 80-something. The author makes some pretty good points - one of them involving a gray sea slug I think it was. Interesting stuff. Although I forget the full name of the book, it has made me question evolution (in the way that an atheist might describe it) even further. I did have one disagreement with the author, although I can't remember what it was at the moment.

As to respond to your post a little better... HERETIC! Actually, I think that it's hard to use Judeo-Christianity (which has been around for untold thousands of years) to keep a populace's opinions suppressed. How can you strike fear into a populace that doesn't fear death? How can you control that populace to love the state more than God? By the way, I'd like to, perhaps, validate or invalidate any assertions you make before you write your novel if that's alright with you. I've been thinking of doing a similar thing - writing a book on theology though (just my views on it - why I believe).

Adreal · January 2007

By the way, I wonder what the people arguing that the fact that there are so many Flood accounts is because of regional flooding and incorporation into cultural legend would have to say about your conclusion that the Hebrews copied the Sumerian Flood. Perhaps they would say that some groups copied and others had their own Flood legends?

My current view is that the Flood was a real event and shared experience, and that it was obviously changed throughout the years in some culture's stories. Check this link out: http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/gilgamesh.html

Adreal · January 2007

Found an interesting page off the net. I ran into the Orpheus Amulet not long ago and started my search for a refutation to it. It appears I've found one: http://www.bede.org.uk/orpheus.htm

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