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A moment of honesty

Jimmy_ScytheJimmy_Scythe Member CommonPosts: 3,586
in The Pub at MMORPG.COM

I am not "hardcore." I'm proud of this fact. I don't carefully gauge how many hours I sit in front of my PC, PS2, Dreamcast, Wii, XBox 360, or Nintendo DS. I rarely sit in front of a game for more than 30 minutes at a stretch. Most of my gaming is done in rare 10 minute breaks between events in real life. I play more often, but for much shorter periods of time. I have no idea how much time I actually invest.

I am not, by nature, an MMORPG player. I got into gaming at the age of 4 when most video games were in big cabinets and charged a quarter per play. My family was too poor to buy anything other than a Tandy Color Computer 2 (64K, no floppy drive or printer) when I was 12. Thus I spent most of my youth playing on the NES and old Atari 2600 / 7800. I didn't even get an SNES or Genesis until around '92. By the time I was 19, I felt that it was time to step up my gaming to something aimed at a more mature market. That market was the PC. At the time, the PC was home to some of the deepest strategy games and most statistically realistic flight sims available. Unfortunately, both of those genres were about to die. A lot.

I had a couple of great years playing Harpoon Online (AOL was the only thing available in my area) and Air Warrior 3. It wasn't long, however, before Doom came out and changed the direction of PC gaming forever. Not that all was lost. Some great things came out of the late '90s. Rainbow Six, Total Annihilation, Close Combat, all the Jane's simulators....
Hell, I even got into Quake 2 and Half-Life. Especially the Counter-Strike mod for HL.

Somewhere around 2000 though, something changed. I don't know what exactly. But the games started to feel... worn. It was as if the developers were trying to stretch out the gameplay of earlier games as much as possible. Games began requiring 20 hours to finish, and then shot up 70 and then 100. Graphics got better, gameplay got slower and, strangely enough, shallower. It was as though they were desperately trying to hide the lack of actual game underneath mountains of gore covered T&A. And in the background of all of this, MMORPGs were coming of age.

At the insistence of a friend at work, I tried out UO. I wasn't overly fond of it. I liked all the things you could do in the game, but the interface left me feeling annoyed. It was like a really in depth Baldur's Gate, only without the easy to use interface. Next up was Asheron's Call. I liked this better than UO, but after 3 months I was bored out of my mind with killing the same damn thing over an over. I never played EQ1 since I heard that it was mostly killing the same things over an over.

My point to all this? We need to be honest about what we really want in a game. I, personally, want something that combines the best elements of Diablo and Dynasty Warriors with 250 vs. 250 battles. Something that feels like a good fighting game, but on a massive scale. That's it. I don't want a virtual world to inhabit. I don't want to raid for high level gear. I just want a highly customizable character and a huge field to kick some ass on. Preferably the asses of actual human players. Players, I might add, that have the ability to school me as well. Maybe throw in some cooperative "challenges" for those that aren't into PvP and viola! With a game like that, you could make random levels with respawning mobs.... Kind of like Diablo.....

TBH, I think that this is what most of us want. Some of us want a virtual community to be a part of and that's cool too. But you can't claim to want a "virtual world" and then want FFA PvP. The two are mutually exclusive. A "world" is a social space whereas FFA PvP is an antisocial activity.

/rant off

Comments

  • OrcaOrca Member UncommonPosts: 629

    Try out planetside...

    Large scale combat, no grinding etc etc...

    Futilez - Mature MMORPG Community

    Correcting people since birth.

  • PyritePyrite Member Posts: 309
    I'm looking for a game that will make me lose 20 pounds and become more attractive to the ladies.  I'm looking for a game that will pay me $50/hour to play it.  I'm looking for a game that will reveal the mysteries of life, the universe, and everything.  Is that too much to ask?  C'mon devs!

    The most important part of reading is reading between the lines.

  • AelfinnAelfinn Member Posts: 3,857

    Clicky 

    The... particulary relevant article is just a little bit down the page, Gameplay preview #9

    Also, articles 2.0 and 3.0 here

    No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
    Hemingway

  • FalfeirFalfeir Member UncommonPosts: 492

     

     

    Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe
    Somewhere around 2000 though, something changed. I don't know what exactly. But the games started to feel... worn. It was as if the developers were trying to stretch out the gameplay of earlier games as much as possible. Games began requiring 20 hours to finish, and then shot up 70 and then 100. Graphics got better, gameplay got slower and, strangely enough, shallower. It was as though they were desperately trying to hide the lack of actual game underneath mountains of gore covered T&A. And in the background of all of this, MMORPGs were coming of age.



    I have similar feelings, but I think the reason is me getting older. I remember the time when i mindlessly killed thousands of critters in prehistoric 2.

    Try Guild Wars btw. PvP depends on player . Right skill selections. Right timings.  Right tactics. No grinding

     

    I need more vespene gas.

  • HakikoHakiko Member Posts: 103
    Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe


    My point to all this? We need to be honest about what we really want in a game. I, personally, want something that combines the best elements of Diablo and Dynasty Warriors with 250 vs. 250 battles. Something that feels like a good fighting game, but on a massive scale. That's it. I don't want a virtual world to inhabit. I don't want to raid for high level gear. I just want a highly customizable character and a huge field to kick some ass on. Preferably the asses of actual human players. Players, I might add, that have the ability to school me as well. Maybe throw in some cooperative "challenges" for those that aren't into PvP and viola! With a game like that, you could make random levels with respawning mobs.... Kind of like Diablo.....
    TBH, I think that this is what most of us want. Some of us want a virtual community to be a part of and that's cool too. But you can't claim to want a "virtual world" and then want FFA PvP. The two are mutually exclusive. A "world" is a social space whereas FFA PvP is an antisocial activity.
    /rant off




    I completely agree with you that we do need to be honest about what we want and the fact is that the things that everyone wants will require many different types of games.

    However I think you over-reach when you assume what "most" people want. I for one have no idea what most people want and have no idea how you would go about finding this out without a very detailed (and expensive survey). I do know however that this is nothing like what I want.

    I do think what you are describing is one of the paths that MMOs are going to go down. Something like this can evolve from the Guild Wars/Diablo style of game. I think what you describe would be a lot of fun.

    I do not agree with you about the nature of FFA PvP and virtual worlds. They can exist in social settings and in fact FFA PvP can enhance the social setting, this has been proven many times in various MUDs. The problem is that the player community needs to be able to inflict true punishment on "murderers". Once a developer is willing to give up this level of control to the community (this may have to involve permadeath as a sentance) it will in fact enhance the social factors in the game. You can law makers, judges, and people who enforce the law. This has been done to a certain extent in several virtual worlds in the past.

    A true virtual world actually requires FFA PvP (you live in a world with FFA PvP every day, you can in fact go kill anyone right now and take their stuff). However a true virtual world also requires the ability for social groups to make and enforce laws with real penalties (the real world also has this, which is why you don't go out and gank your neighbor for his TV). Until they can do this FFA PvP will be disruptive to the social order as it creates a consequence free environment. As long as the crime is consequence free (no laws and punishments) the crime also needs to be consequence free (no corpse looting). Otherwise the game will descend into chaos, just like the real world does in lawless areas (sub-Saharan Africa).

    You are right that this virtual world game is not for you. Not because you are less "hardcore" but because you are not looking for a simulation of the world but a fun PvP romp with friends. We all want different things, all these wants are valid, and we have to be honest about what they are. Or we will never get them.

  • vortressvortress Member Posts: 1
    I for one am not fond of pvp.  Yes I like the social aspect in a mmorpg.  I like paries who work together to achieve a quest, especially parties where each member brings some different ability/skill to the table to help achieve their goal.  Graphics, game play, quests, lag,  balanced toons are all important to me.  Most important is a game where the gm's are not afraid to take action against cheaters.
  • sitheussitheus Member Posts: 230
    I know what you mean OP. I wanted to play WoW for the main reason being that I thought there was supposed to be a war between horde and alliance but there is no more war there than there is in candy land. WoW turned out to be a wack-a-mob millions of times to do nothing but get gear that will be used for nothing other than playing in a dumbed-down instanced battlegrounds with no consequences. I hope for a MMO where the theme is war and not brainless gear grinding.  I would like to play an MMO where crafting is used to support war operations from everything to building weapons, armor, forts, towns, cities, siege equipment, ships, food, etc. Hopefully Age of Conan and WAR will try something inovative with PvP where the game's PvP is about organized warfare where you build, defend, and capture cities,towns, strongholds, resources, etc. WoW PvP is about retarded gank and run fests and raiding Crossroads millions of times for no apparent reason.
  • Jimmy_ScytheJimmy_Scythe Member CommonPosts: 3,586

    Falfeir wrote:

    I have similar feelings, but I think the reason is me getting older.

    I used to think this as well. Then I started buying the arcade anthologies from Midway, Capcom, and Taito as well as the Atari and Intellevision collections. I also downloaded a few emulators and Roms of old games. To my shock and horror, these games were just as addictive today as when I first played them.

    I'm beginning to think that we're currently focusing too much time on content and not enough on tweaking the gameplay to be genuinely compelling.

    Hakiko wrote:

    However I think you over-reach when you assume what "most" people want.

    I'll admit that that was very arrogant and based entirely on my own experience. I also base that on the gaming experiences that I had the most fun with in the past. Four people going as far as they could in Gauntlet. A 16 person LAN party of Counter-Strike. In house tournaments of Power Stone 2 with single elimination FFA 4 player matches. Perfect Dark and Mario Tennis....

    Now that I think about it, the most fun I've had gaming has been when everyone was physically in the same room.....

    However a true virtual world also requires the ability for social groups to make and enforce laws with real penalties (the real world also has this, which is why you don't go out and gank your neighbor for his TV). Until they can do this FFA PvP will be disruptive to the social order as it creates a consequence free environment.

    That's a tall order with players capable of creating alts and smurf accounts. Banning is only temporary and goes contrary the current business model.

    sitheus wrote:

    I hope for a MMO where the theme is war and not brainless gear grinding. I would like to play an MMO where crafting is used to support war operations from everything to building weapons, armor, forts, towns, cities, siege equipment, ships, food, etc.

    I gotta admit, this has been the wet dream of online gaming since its beginning. The problem is making all those support jobs into compelling gameplay. Otherwise, no one will want to do the support jobs. If anyone ever accomplishes this, I'll definitely try it out though.

  • SonofSethSonofSeth Member UncommonPosts: 1,884
    Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe


    Now that I think about it, the most fun I've had gaming has been when everyone was physically in the same room.....



    And then everyone grow up, get a job and....

    image

  • Jimmy_ScytheJimmy_Scythe Member CommonPosts: 3,586

    SonofSeth wrote:

    And then everyone grow up, get a job and....

    Actually, By the time Perfect Dark came out, I had a full-time job that was taking about 60+ hours out of my life a week. Just because I was grown up didn't mean that I couldn't have friends over on the weekend to get drunk and play a few rounds of Soul Calibur or Vitua Tennis. As time goes by, those weekends don't happen as much. Mainly because I'm married and have a family now. Although if I put my mind to it, I could probably squeeze a few hours out of my weekend to get together with other geeks. It wouldn't be anything like the old days where we would play almost to the point that our eyes bleed and we were hallucinating, but some things are best in moderation.

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