but yes, any attempts to make the game easier tend to get flamed by people who think that maps are the devil, the death penalty should fry your motherboard for screwing up, and the only people who play wow are still learning to tie their own shoes.
I'm an old-school hard core player...been in it since Meridian..UO..EQ1...and although WoW isn't my cup of jack..there is no reason why people should be treated like absolute dirt unless they are just trying to start trouble.
I've been in beta for Vanguard and although I enjoy the game and will get it...I have noticed 2 different factions forming...the so called 'leet-hard-core-I-hate-everybody-for-making-WoW-such-a-success' crowd; And the 'wow-is-just-simply-perfect-and-any-game-not-like-it-completely-sucks-and-I-hate-being-trained-and-having-to-get-my-corpse-oh-god-my-feelings-are-now-hurt' people.
I've noticed what previous people have said..they get on..ask a question..and the first faction thinks because someone is simply asking an innocent question that they are 'soft' players and they start to flame them. Which is comical because Im willing to bet most of the "HARDCORE" have prolly never even stepped outside to play a decent game of football..yet they like to assume everyone else not from the EQ1 era (which I am) is 'soft'...YEAH..whatever you say LOL.
And the second bunch of emmy award winners simply complain about everything thats not in the game that was or wasn't in WoW and they simply don't know how to behave lol. They've never had to worry about a train of mobs..never had to worry about going after a corpse as much (that is, if they want their exp back anyway).
Like I said, Im a hardcore gamer..and an old school mmo'r..but to me that doesn't mean I've earned any right to completely disrespect someone for no reason. God, no wonder some of you people are on some kid's hit list in school somewhere...unless your the disgruntled kid making the list, rather.
Lastly, I also can relate to the OP in one other sense. Asking the community for assistance seems so bi-polar. Some days I log on, everyone is very friendly and helpful. Other times, I ask a simple question (Where is x?) and I'm flamed by arrogant tards for several minutes, usually with an array of "Stfu", "Go back to WoW", "lern2play", "Look for yourself n00b".
This is a KO criteria for me. Although I do hope you've been a lil' bit exaggerating? After all VG sounded like a pretty good game but in the end the community makes and breaks a game.
He's not exaggerating.
On that night, ppl were spamming the shout and OOC if nvidia or ati was better, or if wow sukked or not and if VG was an EQ2 clone or not.
I find it quite helpful when someone flames me for asking a question... lets me know who to place on ignore without having to actually group with them in the game...
Or.... sometimes they are vocal, rude and ot quite up on the details of the TOC and you can find a way to report them for a quick 2 or 3 day ban... also another fun way to pass the time while searching for your mobs.....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I know how you feel wasting lots of time looking for something and not finding it. It's frustrating and time consuming. But you have to remember, this is beta and you're new to the game. Many players are just like you, clueless as to locations and certain things to do.
Everything will come in time. Look at it this way, you have a big advantage over those who have yet to enter the game. At least you've been there and now you know a lot more then those who haven't.
I think you're misrepresenting his problem. It's much more than a case of being frustrated by not being able to find something. It's a case of being gobsmacked by quests which tell you to look in one direction when what you're looking for is in the other.
You're right, it's still beta. No grounds to get upset. They're not claiming to be a finished product. But they are claiming to be a nearly finished product with an imminent release date. So maybe grounds to be discouraged.
This was maybe 1-2 days before open beta started. So I'm not sure how the game is now.. Anyways, I was a level 17 Dark Elf Bard and I've been lost a few times in this game too. I agree that quest details are vague and sometimes outright wrong. I remember looking for a mob for one quest, ended up having trouble finding what to kill, I shout out for help and no one responded. They were too busy debating which game is better. "Vanguard vs. whatever" And how the game is not ready for 'Open Beta.' Anyways, I decided to do some exploring, since I was lost and was waiting for some help. I remember travelling maybe 30-40 minutes of open bare landscape with no mobs or anything on it, and thought to myself this isn't fun, this area isn't finished probably. So I teleport back to town and went back to finding that mob for the quest. haha..
Open beta started then I quit.. I'll probably be back in 3-6 months to play the game.
One of the things I find very annoying is the sheer size of some of the cities. So big, yet so little content. The first city I was in was Martok and that was fine for the most part. However, since being in the Dwarven and High Elven cities I am just frustrated with the vast distance one must travel just to get to anything in the city from the outside world.
Here is how long it took me on foot as a dwarf to get around Baldinar's Cleft. Starting at the main entry wall:
To reach the opening to the grand hall (first room): 1M 15S (Nothing but Eye candy)
Right entry to grand hall to middle of room with class trainers: 1M 15S (Little else but eye candy)
Middle of class trainer room to the bank: first banker : 2M 10S (you do pass merchants and stables on way)
Bank to main entry wall: 2M 48S
So to go to the class trainers, sell, and bank will take me about 7.5-9 minutes of travel time once I reach the defensive wall to the city. Almost all of this travel time is waste and an unneeded time sink. It already takes long enough to get to the city as it is.
One of the things I find very annoying is the sheer size of some of the cities. So big, yet so little content. The first city I was in was Martok and that was fine for the most part. However, since being in the Dwarven and High Elven cities I am just frustrated with the vast distance one must travel just to get to anything in the city from the outside world. Here is how long it took me on foot as a dwarf to get around Baldinar's Cleft. Starting at the main entry wall: To reach the opening to the grand hall (first room): 1M 15S (Nothing but Eye candy) Right entry to grand hall to middle of room with class trainers: 1M 15S (Little else but eye candy) Middle of class trainer room to the bank: first banker : 2M 10S (you do pass merchants and stables on way) Bank to main entry wall: 2M 48S So to go to the class trainers, sell, and bank will take me about 7.5-9 minutes of travel time once I reach the defensive wall to the city. Almost all of this travel time is waste and an unneeded time sink. It already takes long enough to get to the city as it is.
Sorry, but i have to LOL on that.
So what do you want, a drop down box that will teleport you where you want ?
One of the things I find very annoying is the sheer size of some of the cities. So big, yet so little content. The first city I was in was Martok and that was fine for the most part. However, since being in the Dwarven and High Elven cities I am just frustrated with the vast distance one must travel just to get to anything in the city from the outside world. Here is how long it took me on foot as a dwarf to get around Baldinar's Cleft. Starting at the main entry wall: To reach the opening to the grand hall (first room): 1M 15S (Nothing but Eye candy) Right entry to grand hall to middle of room with class trainers: 1M 15S (Little else but eye candy) Middle of class trainer room to the bank: first banker : 2M 10S (you do pass merchants and stables on way) Bank to main entry wall: 2M 48S So to go to the class trainers, sell, and bank will take me about 7.5-9 minutes of travel time once I reach the defensive wall to the city. Almost all of this travel time is waste and an unneeded time sink. It already takes long enough to get to the city as it is.
Sorry, but i have to LOL on that.
So what do you want, a drop down box that will teleport you where you want ?
Please don't reply unless you have something useful to say. Running long distances over and over again with no purpose but to be a time sink is just not fun. I play games to have fun not to waste time. Perhaps you should look at most other games and some of the other cities in Vanguard and realize what a waste such a spawling city is.
So what do you want, a drop down box that will teleport you where you want ?
Typical fanboi response to a real gameplay issue.
I kind of like what they were aiming for, not allowing teleporting and making travelling across the world mean something, but they've made it so it's simply not fun.
No, you don't need a drop down box to teleport you where you want and he didn't ask for it. How about instead having a few more merchants spread around the place? Maybe some trainers too. I don't think it's really encouraging team play if when you need to sell or go train you have to say "I'll be back in half an hour".
To make the inevitable WoW comparison.. WoW had most of the class trainers in the major cities. But travelling to those cities, no matter your level, was a fairly simple thing. You could recall straight to a capital, train and be on a griffin back to your buddies in under 10 minutes.
One of the things I find very annoying is the sheer size of some of the cities. So big, yet so little content. The first city I was in was Martok and that was fine for the most part. However, since being in the Dwarven and High Elven cities I am just frustrated with the vast distance one must travel just to get to anything in the city from the outside world. Here is how long it took me on foot as a dwarf to get around Baldinar's Cleft. Starting at the main entry wall: To reach the opening to the grand hall (first room): 1M 15S (Nothing but Eye candy) Right entry to grand hall to middle of room with class trainers: 1M 15S (Little else but eye candy) Middle of class trainer room to the bank: first banker : 2M 10S (you do pass merchants and stables on way) Bank to main entry wall: 2M 48S So to go to the class trainers, sell, and bank will take me about 7.5-9 minutes of travel time once I reach the defensive wall to the city. Almost all of this travel time is waste and an unneeded time sink. It already takes long enough to get to the city as it is.
I understand what you mean but i also know that it really doesn't matter (please read well cause its not a flame or disrespect towards you)
Asfar i see some towns and city i experiance them in the same fashion as Sartagis does but i also know that these towns will just play a minor part of the game as we as the community will be starting to create our own towns, and because the towns look like they do now it gives us more of a change to be able to build nicer towns , towns that eventualy will become (hopefully)populair to visit or just pass thru. Making distances shorter, i'm not sure if custom made town can hold trainers as for like SWG pre cu (dunno if its currently possible still in SWG)had them as it was pretty cool to have the skill to place trainers in your own town again making it intresting for other to come to your town.Also remember mounts..all sort///ground mounts....flying mounts also something to make travel somewhat faster
Remember the sort of emptyness of the game has nothing to do with it being Beta or not finished yet, its all has to do with us and being able to build it ourselfs
My only gripe on this topic would be that the NPC vendors are placed with basically no rhyme or reason whatsoever. Finding a weapon vendor was like the quest for the holy freakin grail and it wasnt until my second visit to Tanvu that I bumbled across the guy in what appeard to be a farmouse on the edge of town..... whatever the devs was smoking when they placed the vendors..... they need to lay off it.
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Vanguard is a game that has you explore to find things, sometimes with waypoints to guide you there, but usually without. To an extent, I can appreciate that. In the real world, you can't always count on a directory to point you to where you need to go, and certainly not out in the middle of the wilderness. Vanguard doesn't breach this humble truth, and as a result it does feel much more worldly to me.
There will be some initial discomfort if you're used to a game that holds your hand all the way, but you'll get used to it. Eventually, you'll start to understand the developers' logic and also develop exploring skills of your own.
I just want to say that i feel a bit like the OP I played this game since beta 5 started. Now things change from the begining of beta 5 to what it is now. I have gotten to lvl 21 but i tend to find myself just stuck in boredom. And finding hard as hell to play 20mins without logging out . Maybe it's me but i am just not finding this game fun anymore. I hope this changes for me beucase i really want to game to be a great GOD know i do. I know I know it's still beta but today it's the 1-21-07 and ppl who pre ordered get in the game in 6days.
Well i hope they can put some fun back into the game make it alittle more fun make me feel like i am part of the world instead of just in a big open field. I hope they can fix the chunking probs. I saw they added so animations and stuff which is good ti see they are still adding stuff. I just wonder is all come on guys pull it off. This game has lots of cool stuff to offer once it is all finish so maybe it will be more fun then right? I hope is all i can do guess i will find out in 6days right since i pre ordered
FFxi Retired Coh/Cov Retired Guild Wars/Retired WOW/(11-23-04/1-6-07) VSOH/ retired AOC/retired that was fast Waiting 4 DCUO ,and FFXIV
Actually, while its a huge world, you can apply some measure of RL logic to it, and navigate by that.
For examples, the roads are mostly safe, and lead somewhere. As long as you follow a road in best hobbit style, you end up somewhere, and you WILL get there within a timeframe you can deduct from a quick view at the map.
If you are looking for a dungeon, chances are one of the 70 dungeons of the game is not too far. Most of these dungeons are tied into their surroundings (example: the dungeon Aeokor Zhi is home to the mobs which names start with Aeokor. As soon as I was attacked by an Aeokor Assassin on the road, I knew it must be close) which can, or can not, help you. But you dont go looking for a dungeon in a large, grass plain.
Same goes for cities (you wont find fully fledged villages without roads leading there) and quests (usually at an outpost along a road, a caravan route etc.)
I believe the idea is that you do NOT have to run forward and backwards across every square metre of land. It takes quite a lot getting used to, but in the end, if you like being able to just do something, but not able to figure out what you are "supposed" to do, its fun.
Its not a safe feeling of doing the right thing, though.
"But walking around 5 friggin hours finding NOTHING and getting nowhere was not fun, not difficult, not challenging, it was boring and frustrating" Glad to see the game is working as intended. Great job Brad.
Actually, while its a huge world, you can apply some measure of RL logic to it, and navigate by that.
For examples, the roads are mostly safe, and lead somewhere. As long as you follow a road in best hobbit style, you end up somewhere, and you WILL get there within a timeframe you can deduct from a quick view at the map.
If you are looking for a dungeon, chances are one of the 70 dungeons of the game is not too far. Most of these dungeons are tied into their surroundings (example: the dungeon Aeokor Zhi is home to the mobs which names start with Aeokor. As soon as I was attacked by an Aeokor Assassin on the road, I knew it must be close) which can, or can not, help you. But you dont go looking for a dungeon in a large, grass plain.
Same goes for cities (you wont find fully fledged villages without roads leading there) and quests (usually at an outpost along a road, a caravan route etc.)
I believe the idea is that you do NOT have to run forward and backwards across every square metre of land. It takes quite a lot getting used to, but in the end, if you like being able to just do something, but not able to figure out what you are "supposed" to do, its fun.
Its not a safe feeling of doing the right thing, though.
QFT
I think we are all a little too used to WOW style insta travel. In Vanguard you cant have the same mindset as that game for example. If you want to save time you should use common sense and plan yopur trips, take a route that will accomplish as many things as possible etc.
Its also more of a reward then when you become more familiar with an area and later in the game you will become very familiar and accastomed to some areas and that in itself will give you an advantage as a player.
Besides if you want a good map or want to mark things on them, whats stopping you from going oldschool and whipping out the graph paper?? No doubt after release the fan sites will have some good player created maps anyway so id rather the devs get working on accurate quest descriptions instead of wasting time on maps....
PS I understand the frustration in completely wrong quest directions but if you whine that they are too vague then yeah, that is the WOW attitude where you get lead around to exactly where you need to go.
Comments
I'm an old-school hard core player...been in it since Meridian..UO..EQ1...and although WoW isn't my cup of jack..there is no reason why people should be treated like absolute dirt unless they are just trying to start trouble.
I've been in beta for Vanguard and although I enjoy the game and will get it...I have noticed 2 different factions forming...the so called 'leet-hard-core-I-hate-everybody-for-making-WoW-such-a-success' crowd; And the 'wow-is-just-simply-perfect-and-any-game-not-like-it-completely-sucks-and-I-hate-being-trained-and-having-to-get-my-corpse-oh-god-my-feelings-are-now-hurt' people.
I've noticed what previous people have said..they get on..ask a question..and the first faction thinks because someone is simply asking an innocent question that they are 'soft' players and they start to flame them. Which is comical because Im willing to bet most of the "HARDCORE" have prolly never even stepped outside to play a decent game of football..yet they like to assume everyone else not from the EQ1 era (which I am) is 'soft'...YEAH..whatever you say LOL.
And the second bunch of emmy award winners simply complain about everything thats not in the game that was or wasn't in WoW and they simply don't know how to behave lol. They've never had to worry about a train of mobs..never had to worry about going after a corpse as much (that is, if they want their exp back anyway).
Like I said, Im a hardcore gamer..and an old school mmo'r..but to me that doesn't mean I've earned any right to completely disrespect someone for no reason. God, no wonder some of you people are on some kid's hit list in school somewhere...unless your the disgruntled kid making the list, rather.
This is a KO criteria for me. Although I do hope you've been a lil' bit exaggerating? After all VG sounded like a pretty good game but in the end the community makes and breaks a game.
He's not exaggerating.
On that night, ppl were spamming the shout and OOC if nvidia or ati was better, or if wow sukked or not and if VG was an EQ2 clone or not.
Omgooses hahaha! Mind-boggling!
Thanks for the replies everyone. Saves me money.
Or.... sometimes they are vocal, rude and ot quite up on the details of the TOC and you can find a way to report them for a quick 2 or 3 day ban... also another fun way to pass the time while searching for your mobs.....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I really, truly do
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
eqnext.wikia.com
I know how you feel wasting lots of time looking for something and not finding it. It's frustrating and time consuming. But you have to remember, this is beta and you're new to the game. Many players are just like you, clueless as to locations and certain things to do.
Everything will come in time. Look at it this way, you have a big advantage over those who have yet to enter the game. At least you've been there and now you know a lot more then those who haven't.
I think you're misrepresenting his problem. It's much more than a case of being frustrated by not being able to find something. It's a case of being gobsmacked by quests which tell you to look in one direction when what you're looking for is in the other.
You're right, it's still beta. No grounds to get upset. They're not claiming to be a finished product. But they are claiming to be a nearly finished product with an imminent release date. So maybe grounds to be discouraged.
This was maybe 1-2 days before open beta started. So I'm not sure how the game is now.. Anyways, I was a level 17 Dark Elf Bard and I've been lost a few times in this game too. I agree that quest details are vague and sometimes outright wrong. I remember looking for a mob for one quest, ended up having trouble finding what to kill, I shout out for help and no one responded. They were too busy debating which game is better. "Vanguard vs. whatever" And how the game is not ready for 'Open Beta.' Anyways, I decided to do some exploring, since I was lost and was waiting for some help. I remember travelling maybe 30-40 minutes of open bare landscape with no mobs or anything on it, and thought to myself this isn't fun, this area isn't finished probably. So I teleport back to town and went back to finding that mob for the quest. haha..
Open beta started then I quit.. I'll probably be back in 3-6 months to play the game.
One of the things I find very annoying is the sheer size of some of the cities. So big, yet so little content. The first city I was in was Martok and that was fine for the most part. However, since being in the Dwarven and High Elven cities I am just frustrated with the vast distance one must travel just to get to anything in the city from the outside world.
Here is how long it took me on foot as a dwarf to get around Baldinar's Cleft. Starting at the main entry wall:
To reach the opening to the grand hall (first room): 1M 15S (Nothing but Eye candy)
Right entry to grand hall to middle of room with class trainers: 1M 15S (Little else but eye candy)
Middle of class trainer room to the bank: first banker : 2M 10S (you do pass merchants and stables on way)
Bank to main entry wall: 2M 48S
So to go to the class trainers, sell, and bank will take me about 7.5-9 minutes of travel time once I reach the defensive wall to the city. Almost all of this travel time is waste and an unneeded time sink. It already takes long enough to get to the city as it is.
So what do you want, a drop down box that will teleport you where you want ?
eqnext.wikia.com
So what do you want, a drop down box that will teleport you where you want ?
Please don't reply unless you have something useful to say. Running long distances over and over again with no purpose but to be a time sink is just not fun. I play games to have fun not to waste time. Perhaps you should look at most other games and some of the other cities in Vanguard and realize what a waste such a spawling city is.
Typical fanboi response to a real gameplay issue.
I kind of like what they were aiming for, not allowing teleporting and making travelling across the world mean something, but they've made it so it's simply not fun.
No, you don't need a drop down box to teleport you where you want and he didn't ask for it. How about instead having a few more merchants spread around the place? Maybe some trainers too. I don't think it's really encouraging team play if when you need to sell or go train you have to say "I'll be back in half an hour".
To make the inevitable WoW comparison.. WoW had most of the class trainers in the major cities. But travelling to those cities, no matter your level, was a fairly simple thing. You could recall straight to a capital, train and be on a griffin back to your buddies in under 10 minutes.
I understand what you mean but i also know that it really doesn't matter (please read well cause its not a flame or disrespect towards you)
Asfar i see some towns and city i experiance them in the same fashion as Sartagis does but i also know that these towns will just play a minor part of the game as we as the community will be starting to create our own towns, and because the towns look like they do now it gives us more of a change to be able to build nicer towns , towns that eventualy will become (hopefully)populair to visit or just pass thru. Making distances shorter, i'm not sure if custom made town can hold trainers as for like SWG pre cu (dunno if its currently possible still in SWG)had them as it was pretty cool to have the skill to place trainers in your own town again making it intresting for other to come to your town.Also remember mounts..all sort///ground mounts....flying mounts also something to make travel somewhat faster
Remember the sort of emptyness of the game has nothing to do with it being Beta or not finished yet, its all has to do with us and being able to build it ourselfs
The beta community in no way represents what the community of the game will be after its released"But walking around 5 friggin hours finding NOTHING and getting nowhere was not fun, not difficult, not challenging, it was boring and frustrating"
Glad to see the game is working as intended. Great job Brad.
Ive been in the OP's shoes too.... and in Tanvu!
My only gripe on this topic would be that the NPC vendors are placed with basically no rhyme or reason whatsoever. Finding a weapon vendor was like the quest for the holy freakin grail and it wasnt until my second visit to Tanvu that I bumbled across the guy in what appeard to be a farmouse on the edge of town..... whatever the devs was smoking when they placed the vendors..... they need to lay off it.
+-+-+-+-+-+
"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
There will be some initial discomfort if you're used to a game that holds your hand all the way, but you'll get used to it. Eventually, you'll start to understand the developers' logic and also develop exploring skills of your own.
I just want to say that i feel a bit like the OP I played this game since beta 5 started. Now things change from the begining of beta 5 to what it is now. I have gotten to lvl 21 but i tend to find myself just stuck in boredom. And finding hard as hell to play 20mins without logging out . Maybe it's me but i am just not finding this game fun anymore. I hope this changes for me beucase i really want to game to be a great GOD know i do. I know I know it's still beta but today it's the 1-21-07 and ppl who pre ordered get in the game in 6days.
Well i hope they can put some fun back into the game make it alittle more fun make me feel like i am part of the world instead of just in a big open field. I hope they can fix the chunking probs. I saw they added so animations and stuff which is good ti see they are still adding stuff. I just wonder is all come on guys pull it off. This game has lots of cool stuff to offer once it is all finish so maybe it will be more fun then right? I hope is all i can do guess i will find out in 6days right since i pre ordered
FFxi Retired
Coh/Cov Retired
Guild Wars/Retired
WOW/(11-23-04/1-6-07)
VSOH/ retired
AOC/retired that was fast
Waiting 4 DCUO ,and FFXIV
For examples, the roads are mostly safe, and lead somewhere. As long as you follow a road in best hobbit style, you end up somewhere, and you WILL get there within a timeframe you can deduct from a quick view at the map.
If you are looking for a dungeon, chances are one of the 70 dungeons of the game is not too far. Most of these dungeons are tied into their surroundings (example: the dungeon Aeokor Zhi is home to the mobs which names start with Aeokor. As soon as I was attacked by an Aeokor Assassin on the road, I knew it must be close) which can, or can not, help you. But you dont go looking for a dungeon in a large, grass plain.
Same goes for cities (you wont find fully fledged villages without roads leading there) and quests (usually at an outpost along a road, a caravan route etc.)
I believe the idea is that you do NOT have to run forward and backwards across every square metre of land. It takes quite a lot getting used to, but in the end, if you like being able to just do something, but not able to figure out what you are "supposed" to do, its fun.
Its not a safe feeling of doing the right thing, though.
Thats his own fault not the games lolQFT
I think we are all a little too used to WOW style insta travel. In Vanguard you cant have the same mindset as that game for example. If you want to save time you should use common sense and plan yopur trips, take a route that will accomplish as many things as possible etc.
Its also more of a reward then when you become more familiar with an area and later in the game you will become very familiar and accastomed to some areas and that in itself will give you an advantage as a player.
Besides if you want a good map or want to mark things on them, whats stopping you from going oldschool and whipping out the graph paper?? No doubt after release the fan sites will have some good player created maps anyway so id rather the devs get working on accurate quest descriptions instead of wasting time on maps....
PS I understand the frustration in completely wrong quest directions but if you whine that they are too vague then yeah, that is the WOW attitude where you get lead around to exactly where you need to go.
~Dunadurium
"Silly rabbit, WoW's for kids"
************************
They give waypoints just like in WoW.