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Don't blame SOE for Vanguards early release!
Stoneysilenc
Member Posts: 369
If you want to blame SOE for Vanguard early release, you are blaming the wrong people according to Sigil, notice the BOLD part by Jon Grande in the second part:
www.silkyvenom.com/pages/faq.php
SOE owns distribution, marketing, data center operations, and *technical* support (ie - when you have trouble installing the client, or a scratched disk from the retail box).
Sigil owns everything related to development, in-game customer service, live teams, and on-going content development.
And the relationship is setup, both organizationally and financially, to reinforce those roles.
We actually did account for this ... what people need to realize is that the over structure of the new publishing arrangement will enable us (Sigil) to make Vanguard a fundamentally better game. We are now in complete control of the budget, the schedule, etc.
We would ask people to, at least, take a wait and see approach ... if we end up breaching your trust with the quality of the game or its on-going operation - then you have every right to tell us to "talk to the hand".
Comments
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Troy
It's a scene when Ajax and Hector fight. Ajax is my Icon.
Why are there so many excuses for this game?
Hey OP, you have no clue to what you are talking about. Unless you're a SOE/Sigil Exec, which you are NOT.
I think everybody came to the conclusion that SOE is pulling the strings based on past history and track record of SOE and Brad's other MMO company (which sold out to SOE in case you didn't know).
I think it's a safe bet and from the looks of it, many agree.
Sorry man, that's just the way it is. You'll still see 200K subs the first year (not everybody researches a game before they buy it), it's all good.....
So you don't even believe quotes from Sigil themselves saying that they have control of their budget? Besides the game was in development 4-5 years before SOE even got involved.
Whatever, have a sugar cube and keep your blinders on believe that everything is evil SOE's fault. Sigil had $45-75 million budget(EQ2's budget was $45, Wow's was $75. Brad said they had the second largest budget). They blew it all on their own mostly before SOE even got involved.
As co-publisher of Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Sigil assumes greater control of marketing and PR, while maintaining responsibility for game development, community relations, media relations, customer support, and quality assurance. Under the terms of the agreement, SOE will provide distribution, marketing, hosting and back-end support -- including billing and technical support -- for the game. Additionally, SOE is tentatively planning on adding Vanguard, upon its release,to SOEs Station Access subscription plan. Station Access allows players to enjoy all of SOEs MMO titles for one low monthly price.
http://www.sigilgames.com/sonypressrelease.html
OR more eayser to single out sony's part
SOE will provide distribution, marketing, hosting and back-end support -- including billing and technical support -- for the game. bit more than just servers as some were saying an bit less than finacal overlords as others were saying.Just enuff to lose me as a player tho.
When billing goes bad sony blames you,your bank,your credit card.Any one but them.Survied the 6th year subscription "bug" took 2 months ,multi page threads, players calls to soe an the threat of legal action to make them honor their subscription plans.This was a everquest subscription.Which is the 1st an last online game ill play that sony makes or handles subscriptions.
An atm if one changes their cc info you have to close your acount an lose any subscription plans you have.The reopen it with what ever plans is avalible atm.Hope the best for Vanguard an its players.But seriously theirs a set up here to blame SOE for what problems Vanguard has/will have.Thats not fair nor factual.
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard, The Tower of the Elephant (1933)
Not everybody does their homework before they post either sadly .The whole thing about brad sold eq to sony or verant was bought out by sony thing is starting to get old as a old mmorpg wives tale...
"Development of EverQuest began in 1996 when Sony Interactive Studios America (SISA) executive John Smedley secured funding for a 3D version of textbased MUDs following the success of the first massively multiplayer games, Neverwinter Nights and Meridian 59. To implement the design Smedley hired programmers Brad McQuaid and Steve Clover who had come to Smedley's attention through their work on the singleplayer RPG Warwizard. McQuaid soon rose through the ranks to become Executive Producer for the EverQuest franchise and emerged during development of EverQuest as a popular figure among the fan community through his in-game avatar, Aradune. Other key members of the development team included Bill Trost, who created the history, lore and major characters of Norrath (including Everquest protagonist Firiona Vie), Geoffrey "GZ" Zatkin who implemented the spell system, and artist Kevin Burns, who did the original character modelling in the game.
EverQuest launched with modest expectations from Sony on March 16, 1999 under its Verant Interactive brand and quickly became successful. By the end of the year, it had surpassed the leading competitor, Ultima Online in number of subscriptions. Numbers continued rising at a steady rate until mid-2001 when growth slowed. As of 2004, Sony reports subscription numbers close to 450,000"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everquest
Sony owned Verant even before it was a spin off from 989studios which Sony owned as well.
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard, The Tower of the Elephant (1933)
No, I do not believe them. In other words, I think they are liars.
Also, "Sigil has a $45m-$75m budget". Might as well have said they have a $1 to $75m budget, that $30m differance is a large amount. I wonder how much of that was used to buy the rights back from Microsoft.
SOE gave them money dude. I'm sure they are getting something in return. Sigil sold thier souls to the devil.
I've seen these wonderful quotes before. I've also seen what really happens.
I don't want to sound like I'm bashing, like I said, Vanguard will sell some boxes this year.
I really just want to point out that you are a true believer in wishful thinking.
A glass half full customer in a glass have empty industry.
Not everybody does their homework before they post either sadly .The whole thing about brad sold eq to sony or verant was bought out by sony thing is starting to get old as a old mmorpg wives tale...
"Development of EverQuest began in 1996 when Sony Interactive Studios America (SISA) executive John Smedley secured funding for a 3D version of textbased MUDs following the success of the first massively multiplayer games, Neverwinter Nights and Meridian 59. To implement the design Smedley hired programmers Brad McQuaid and Steve Clover who had come to Smedley's attention through their work on the singleplayer RPG Warwizard. McQuaid soon rose through the ranks to become Executive Producer for the EverQuest franchise and emerged during development of EverQuest as a popular figure among the fan community through his in-game avatar, Aradune. Other key members of the development team included Bill Trost, who created the history, lore and major characters of Norrath (including Everquest protagonist Firiona Vie), Geoffrey "GZ" Zatkin who implemented the spell system, and artist Kevin Burns, who did the original character modelling in the game.
EverQuest launched with modest expectations from Sony on March 16, 1999 under its Verant Interactive brand and quickly became successful. By the end of the year, it had surpassed the leading competitor, Ultima Online in number of subscriptions. Numbers continued rising at a steady rate until mid-2001 when growth slowed. As of 2004, Sony reports subscription numbers close to 450,000"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everquest
Sony owned Verant even before it was a spin off from 989studios which Sony owned as well.
That's nice. Still doesn't change anything I said though.
Its one thing to believe anything told by the officials, but its another altogether to glue your own little paranoia together into a world view that supports your arguments.
As long as nobody can show me proof of SOE, as a company, deciding on one thing or the other, while Sigil, as a company, takes responsibility, I simply believe a duck is a duck, or I dont think about it at all.
This ridiculous SOE hate is the blanket argument for about anything these days. Using it just makes you look naive.
Contracts : some of you should look that up on wiki, you see when a partnership is made they write the agreements in contacts, and contracts have deadlines. SOE didn't set the launching date without Sigil fully agreeing to it, in fact Sigil was running out of money, because this game was long overdue.
The FPS lag was not the Unreal engine. I remember dozens of post blaming the unreal engine for the crappy performance, without getting technical about it, I ask you this : did the patches make performance better? Yes! There you have it, Sigil side issue. Their designers just didn't pay any attention to creating worlds from a technical point of view, that is very unprofessional. The artists lacked the creativity to come up with an original art concept, so they went wit the easiest ides : realism ... lot harder to get it right though, and they failed, and hit the uncanny valley.
People who dislike the game are WoW fanboys, who are afraid of loosing subs. This is ridiculous, as VG took many elements from WoW. I read more positive comments from people who play WoW, than negative ones. The "haters" hate the game for a totally different reason, not because it's not like WoW, but because it's unlike anything they had promised it to be. And who cares if 200k people who shall play this game hypothetically all leave from WoW, the most successful/professional, if bluntly easy and childish, game out there?
It's hard to blame the ones you look up to, but it's even harder to keep it real, although I am not surprised that few people know what real is on these boards...
- People are saying Vanguard is being rushed out before it is finished, is that true?
- MMOs are unique in the gaming world because they are never truly finished. Vanguard will continue to be added upon and evolve for years to come. That said, no matter when you release there’s always going to be things you wish you had time to add or would have liked to have done but didn’t have time. Fortunately, with MMOs, we actually can add that stuff in later.
Looks to me like SOE most definitely is a major driver behind next weeks release date.-Nick Parkinson, Community Manager
We don't want to rush things but like I said we have a solid launch date. People are crunching and working long hours but the financial reality is we need to launch commercially, and soon.
I know that is not the answer you want to hear, nor I, but it is what it is and I've always been straight up with you guys. We will have a lot of work to do post-launch and the first couple of months post-launch will be just as busy as beta 5 with lots of patches, bug fixes, new features, etc. In that sense, things won't change.
I promise you we are doing the best we can with the time we have, even though we all, the players and Sigil wish we had more time, but like I said, there are financial realities. We are still I believe the 2nd most expensive MMOG to-date after WoW and that is something, despite the desire to have more time, I have to be grateful to both MSFT and SOE for.
-Brad McQuaid, CEO
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Yes sony was not going to give them more money unless they released quickly, but what else are they going to do? Lose Sony and not release the game?
Rushing sucks, but when you don't have money there isn't any other option, some people don't understand that.
Not everybody does their homework before they post either sadly .The whole thing about brad sold eq to sony or verant was bought out by sony thing is starting to get old as a old mmorpg wives tale...
"Development of EverQuest began in 1996 when Sony Interactive Studios America (SISA) executive John Smedley secured funding for a 3D version of textbased MUDs following the success of the first massively multiplayer games, Neverwinter Nights and Meridian 59. To implement the design Smedley hired programmers Brad McQuaid and Steve Clover who had come to Smedley's attention through their work on the singleplayer RPG Warwizard. McQuaid soon rose through the ranks to become Executive Producer for the EverQuest franchise and emerged during development of EverQuest as a popular figure among the fan community through his in-game avatar, Aradune. Other key members of the development team included Bill Trost, who created the history, lore and major characters of Norrath (including Everquest protagonist Firiona Vie), Geoffrey "GZ" Zatkin who implemented the spell system, and artist Kevin Burns, who did the original character modelling in the game.
EverQuest launched with modest expectations from Sony on March 16, 1999 under its Verant Interactive brand and quickly became successful. By the end of the year, it had surpassed the leading competitor, Ultima Online in number of subscriptions. Numbers continued rising at a steady rate until mid-2001 when growth slowed. As of 2004, Sony reports subscription numbers close to 450,000"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everquest
Sony owned Verant even before it was a spin off from 989studios which Sony owned as well.
That's nice. Still doesn't change anything I said though.
To you it might not change a thing, but to me it does. It tells me that you are the one who has no clue about SOE. It makes you look clueless nakedone.
Havnt seen Troy... guess that explains it...
Thanks...
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Guess we read that differently. I don't read that as SOE forcing it out the door. I read it that Sigil mis-spent their money, finally ran out of money and nobody else was gonna lend them any more money, money lending institutions and venture capitalists all have their limits. Sigil was the one who blew $45-75 million dollars and this is what they have to show for it. Also SOE isn't the only one who can loan them money, nor is it their responsibility to do so. It isn't SOE's game. I am guessing they tried borrowing money from anybody and everybody and everybody said no more. So they are "borrowing" it from the players instead.
It's time for Sigil to put up or shut up basically.
Well I tried real hard but I have completly failed to give a crap about any of this. I'm just going to play the game. Been in beta since August and couldn't be more thrilled its finally launching.