Did WoW just shoot it self in the foot.

Warrth · January 2007

Wondering how many ppl think WoW might have just cause it's own END. After countless raids and hours spent to get Epic gear. In OX,MC,BWL ,AQ etc. etc. To have these items replaces by better greens and a new max LVL 70. Which seems to have made the old world worthless now.

dtritus · January 2007

Other MMO's have done the same thing many many times. It happened in EQ every time a new expansion came out.

There will be new end game goals to work on for the next 2 years or however long till the next expansion or new game or whatever.

I'm not sure why you want WoW to end, if you don't like it, just play something else.

Kyleran · January 2007

i never played EQ 1/2 but aren't those games who raised the level cap and added new items on a periodic basis? If so, the model seemed to work fine for them.

People need new goals.... what would Tier 3 geared players do if they never came out with better gear? That's why I prefer games like DAOC that don't raise the level cap..but even there, no one today is wearing the same gear they had 2 years ago. The addition of Darkspire and Labyrith gear has replace most of our earlier stuff (though ppl still use player spell crafted gear to fill out their templates, which I think is a great thing)

The point of the game is to replace your gear periodically. Sure, that cool Naxx gear you worked hard for isn't much good..but it was fun strutting it around while you could. And really, aren't you supposed to be running instances for the challenge (at least the first time?) Just a shame you have to run the same instance 20, 30 or 40 times to get your full set.

Sargas1 · January 2007

Well.... Blizzard did the worst thing possible by making the "only" 2 Fractions equal by giving everyone access to all Classes. They didnt wana Balance the classes so they simply gave everyone same choices. Blizzard also took 2 years to bring out an expansion wich has NO REAL innovation. Just more of the same old type of content.

However..... Blizzard did one thing right wich MOST OTHER developers must still learn.... The Basic prinzip of Diablo ist just GENIUS.... constantly getting new new new new loot is the best Motivation people can get. I know alot people will now say otherwise but belive it or not, Mankind is made of COLLECTORS and HUNTERS. The fact that a few people dont like this doesnt mean that it is not the BASIC for most successful online games.

In WoW u can find almost unlimited number of different items in different qualitys. Once you found a (in ur opinion) "decent" item (doesnt matter if weapon, armor or ANYTHING else) you can take it to a Enchanter and choose to further enhance it in dozens of different way to make it even better for ur Character. Once u done that u start looking for Jewels or earning gold to buy em. With these jewel you can add even MORE additional features to your item depending on type quality and COMBINATION of added jewels. ANd guess what? While searching for the ultimate enhancement of ur item it is possible you come across an even Better item and start it all over again. Its the most simple yet best motivation for the majority of people. (anyone remember Diablo and the Magic Cube? u know what i mean)

shadowslica · January 2007

Well ive played wow alot, ive gotten 4 toons to 60 and gotten 2 of them very epiced out, but im afraid wow and i have just grown apart, i just dont find it interesting anymore, but alot of my friends have gotten right back into it and are having a great time lvling and doing new things, while im just chillin in a few betas.

What would bring me back to wow is new classes, im not sure if anyone else feels this way but if you start a bloodelf or a drenii its just the same as the other time you started that class with an orc or a human and it just feels the same. I realise they are planing new classes but that might not be for ages i guess.

Anyway im not bashing wow, i could never hate something thats brought me so much fun in the past but i guess im over it.

maxnrosy · January 2007

those people who were all epiced out before the expansion ripped non epiced players to shreds, These people got their gear months to even years before most others could get their 1st mc loot.

whats gonna happen, the same thing, these same people are going to raid bc's raid instances before the vast majority since they have top of the line raid gear with huge resistances on em, they will gain their lvl 70 epics before the vast majority and once again thier dedicated time will show when they rip all those people who didnt have the chance to gain the same loot the raiders have.

so no wow didnt shoot itself in the foot.

DuraheLL · January 2007

Lol I can't see why anybody would LIKE that horrid expansion.

They hardly add anything GOOD for the game they just extended the very pain the players have tried so hard to overcome. To get the good stuff.

There really is NO FREAKING NEED to raise the level cap. Face it, it's inevitable that everyone will face the last level. if levels acts as a prelude to how the game works why the hell do they need to raise it more now? I'll tell you why, cus they EARN MONEY for doing so. And it's the number one SIMPLE way to give the players the impression that the game has advanced! Because you can gain new items which practicly does nothing because it only takes time.

What they needed to do was to focus on the game that IS and now that WAS. The world could use a good boost and RvR and stuff could have gone live. Instead they just add more stupid dungeons (instances) and new items. When you think of it it could all just be added by patching.

I really don't see the whole point with this and I never did

Pyrite · January 2007

Originally posted by DuraheLL
Lol I can't see why anybody would LIKE that horrid expansion.
They hardly add anything GOOD for the game they just extended the very pain the players have tried so hard to overcome. To get the good stuff.
There really is NO FREAKING NEED to raise the level cap. Face it, it's inevitable that everyone will face the last level. if levels acts as a prelude to how the game works why the hell do they need to raise it more now? I'll tell you why, cus they EARN MONEY for doing so. And it's the number one SIMPLE way to give the players the impression that the game has advanced! Because you can gain new items which practicly does nothing because it only takes time.
What they needed to do was to focus on the game that IS and now that WAS. The world could use a good boost and RvR and stuff could have gone live. Instead they just add more stupid dungeons (instances) and new items. When you think of it it could all just be added by patching.
I really don't see the whole point with this and I never did

Just curious what you mean by "good"? A free burger with every purchase?

They added 10 levels, 2 instances, 2 races, 1 profession, and 1 continent full of new encounters. They also revamped the PvP system adding arenas and a new battleground.

Grinding gear and levels has been a part of every major MMO made. There are also systems in place for players who want to focus on the social aspect of the game. Crafting, roleplaying, etc...

One exciting part of BC is the fact that every level 60 player has to make a fresh start in terms of gear in order to advance. You must quickly get back to the basics of you class instead of relying on your top tier stats to carry you.

DuraheLL · January 2007

Just curious what you mean by "good"? A free burger with every purchase?
They added 10 levels, 2 instances, 2 races, 1 profession, and 1 continent full of new encounters. They also revamped the PvP system adding arenas and a new battleground.
Grinding gear and levels has been a part of every major MMO made. There are also systems in place for players who want to focus on the social aspect of the game. Crafting, roleplaying, etc...
One exciting part of BC is the fact that every level 60 player has to make a fresh start in terms of gear in order to advance. You must quickly get back to the basics of you class instead of relying on your top tier stats to carry you.
I commented upon the very weak "new" addons the expansion brought. You can hardly say adding new levels is something that "the expansion added". It's something that just wouldn't have to be done in the first place. Levels are only good for one thing, and that is to step by step introduce the player to the game. Since most people already are level 60 why would they want to gain 10 more levels? It's bullocks.
Beeing the "most hyped and played" MMORPG today I'd expect to see more out of an EXPANSION. The only reasonable thing added was the new land, which of course, always is nice. But I feel it took a bit long before it was done. The world still is kinda small compared to many of the crowds, and the game still forces people to farm the same instances over and over and over again for the best gear. Instead of trying to solve it in a way that adds some more variation to it.
Not that it has to be boring, but I certainly cannot agree upon it being smart or reasonable.
WoW could sure use some more elements of RPG. The game hardly has ANYTHING for an ordinary roleplaying person. Roleplaying is what you make of it, but it's the game that decides how far you can take the roleplaying and WoW certainly ain't made to RP. And isolating the RP people into seperate servers could add some decency to the players, but it still won't work both ways around.
The new PvP system might be better but there's a whole lot more that can be done to make it something special. It's still pretty much just farming ghost points for ages.

kaibigan34 · January 2007

They had to add more levels. And better gear. There was literally no way around it. Imagine it if they had not done that. Think about it. Take away the 10 new levels. Everyone that is 60 stays 60. Since 60% of the players have a 60 I seriously doubt they would be too happy staying 60. And alot of them sure as hell dont want to have to go up again on another toon. Next is the better loot. So lets take that away. Now you have a ton of players who are already 60th level and in Tier 3s or close to it. No new levels. No new loot. So whats the draw to make them want to go to the outlands? Oh yeah nothing.

But there is the quests. Some are saying its the same old thing. All MMO quests are broken down into the same basic types. Kill named mob, Kill X number of mobs, deliver this, fetch that, craft this, collect that. That is really all you can do with quests. Its how they are dressed up. Its how they are delivered. And if you think the quests in outlands are the same then you arent actually reading the stories.

Plus to get technical they have added a few NEW types of quests. Like the bombing runs in Hellfire. But still it is mostly the same old thing just different packaging. Show me an MMORPG that isnt the same old thing.

New models. New loot. New quests. And a great storyline that goes well with warcraft.

But there are things about it I dont like. Blizzard giving horde paladins and alliance shamans because they couldnt figure out how to balance it. That really sucked. Everyone knows how to balance it. But they wont do that. Instead they take the easy way out. Now I see a ton of blood elf paladins roaming around. Because paladin is the only true overpowered profession. And the numbers prove it. I also dont like that the alliance is still large and incharge as usual because Blizzard is pro-alliance all the way.

Anyway I digress. Its an expansion just like all the rest from other games. Its going to have good things and bad things. Some people will love it, the majority from what I have gathered, and some will hate it. But hey you cant please everyone. Especially the ones that are just jealous because their favorite game isnt as popular.

So no Blizzard did not shoot itself in the foot. They are laughing all the way to the bank as usual. And will quite probably continue to do so. They would have to do something on par with Mourning or the NGE to actually damage WoW right now.

Kai

Volkmar · January 2007

Originally posted by shadowslica

Well ive played wow alot, ive gotten 4 toons to 60 and gotten 2 of them very epiced out, but im afraid wow and i have just grown apart, i just dont find it interesting anymore, but alot of my friends have gotten right back into it and are having a great time lvling and doing new things, while im just chillin in a few betas.

What would bring me back to wow is new classes, im not sure if anyone else feels this way but if you start a bloodelf or a drenii its just the same as the other time you started that class with an orc or a human and it just feels the same. I realise they are planing new classes but that might not be for ages i guess.

Anyway im not bashing wow, i could never hate something thats brought me so much fun in the past but i guess im over it.

actually you got it all wrong.

the two new races and their areas are so mind numbing fun you have noooooo idea. Starting as a be or draenei, is really something different.

Hard to believe? yes i believe so, but i can't express it in word, you have to try it yourselves.

Now i see why it took so long to do this expansions, the new areas are simply incredible. so much that i am fearing going over level 20 to go back to the "old" world when this one is so much better.

Blizzard did it again. If you read WoW's features list back in 2004 you would not be impressed, same old, right? wrong! the game was incredibly fun. Same thing here. The expansion do not change the dyanimcs of the game, no, but it makes them so much better. Again, featurewise it doesn't seem nothing special. but it is.

PunisherX · January 2007

okay, in general, is this game any fun at all. or is it a waste of time to get? Im askin cause im thinking about getting it but im afraid that if i get it and i start playin it I wont like it!

Briansho · January 2007

Originally posted by PunisherX

okay, in general, is this game any fun at all. or is it a waste of time to get? Im askin cause im thinking about getting it but im afraid that if i get it and i start playin it I wont like it!

Its a fun game, but the closer I got to 60 it started getting boring and repetitive bigtime.

ram3o · January 2007

WoW shot itself in the foot when they came out with an expansion increasing the level cap to 70 making pvpers have to spend addition 40 dollars to play.

kizzim · January 2007

Alot of good posts on the subject of WoW and the expansion.

I myself was in a raiding guild, my guild raided 5 nights of the week minimum. I did this over 1 year, all the gear, all the accomplishments i made, gone. What did it get me? What was my time invested for? To give me a head start on some greens in the expansion that someone who didnt spend a year doing what i did got?

What WoW did was NEVER done in a MMORPG before. Everquest added new content, new weapons, but you just couldnt go there with newbie equipment and blues and greens and get it. You had to hit the old content first, and EQ didnt make it easier to get until the next expansion was out, that way the elite guilds who worked hard to get the gear would feel proud, and the bottlenecks for the sucky guilds were removed months later. PERFECT SETUP.

But to have all the resist gear i farmed, all the factions i grinded, all the times i saw FRIGGIN MOLTEN CORE AND BWL till my eyes bleed, what did i get? NOTHING.

Blizzard will never see a dime of my money again on any game, not just WoW. This company time and time again has done nothing but make promises they never keep, horrible delays in expansions, and their programmers just arent top notch. Last time i touched Diablo 2, the developers stated that they couldnt beat the hackers duping items ingame, and instead of fighting a losing battle, they were just going to allow players to have a certain amount of duped items.

I played WoW even tho it was mind numbingly basic, the artistry sucked, I played it because of my rl friends, i felt accomplishment when i played with them, but finally i couldnt take it anymore. WoW was and is hands down one of the worst mmorpgs ever created. The pvp system is retarded, the gold farming is out of hand, the gameplay consists of mashing 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.., and the GMs... I never thought there could be GMs worse than those on Everquest and Sony.... wow Blizzard, you took #1.

If WoW is a sign of how MMORPGS are going to evolve (Warhammer, etc more wow clones) then i quit. I quit, or ill go back to the old school games like Asheron's Call, Everquest, or UO, dispite poor population on servers.

I miss killing some guy and talking trash to them, I miss griefing someone and taking that sword they worked a week on, I miss the 30 minutes of my life i wasted hunting down some player atleast netted the target some form of loss other than just walking back to their corpse. I miss it when my time invested in a game ment something, I miss Gms actually taking the time to come to my location and investigating something, other than sending me some BS email 3 days later.

You want to see real MMORPG again, get Turbine's original dev team back together, or throw sick amounts of money at CCP. But you arent going to find one from SOE or Blizzard, i tell you that.

DuraheLL · January 2007

Originally posted by kaibigan34

Next is the better loot. So lets take that away. Now you have a ton of players who are already 60th level and in Tier 3s or close to it. No new levels. No new loot. So whats the draw to make them want to go to the outlands? Oh yeah nothing.

Kai

This is exactly what I was talking about. All you ever can do in WoW is to get new gear and level. Instead of adding more elements of variation like intensified world PvP'ing or greater end-game variational pathways I can only see one very weak patch instead of an expansion.

If nothing drives the players to the new land but the new items I seriously cannot support the idea of the expansion being ... "good".

Break it down and you will only find WoW being "a time run" to the top.

randprin · January 2007

Originally posted by kizzim

Alot of good posts on the subject of WoW and the expansion.
I myself was in a raiding guild, my guild raided 5 nights of the week minimum. I did this over 1 year, all the gear, all the accomplishments i made, gone. What did it get me? What was my time invested for? To give me a head start on some greens in the expansion that someone who didnt spend a year doing what i did got?
What WoW did was NEVER done in a MMORPG before. Everquest added new content, new weapons, but you just couldnt go there with newbie equipment and blues and greens and get it. You had to hit the old content first, and EQ didnt make it easier to get until the next expansion was out, that way the elite guilds who worked hard to get the gear would feel proud, and the bottlenecks for the sucky guilds were removed months later. PERFECT SETUP.
But to have all the resist gear i farmed, all the factions i grinded, all the times i saw FRIGGIN MOLTEN CORE AND BWL till my eyes bleed, what did i get? NOTHING.
Blizzard will never see a dime of my money again on any game, not just WoW. This company time and time again has done nothing but make promises they never keep, horrible delays in expansions, and their programmers just arent top notch. Last time i touched Diablo 2, the developers stated that they couldnt beat the hackers duping items ingame, and instead of fighting a losing battle, they were just going to allow players to have a certain amount of duped items.
I played WoW even tho it was mind numbingly basic, the artistry sucked, I played it because of my rl friends, i felt accomplishment when i played with them, but finally i couldnt take it anymore. WoW was and is hands down one of the worst mmorpgs ever created. The pvp system is retarded, the gold farming is out of hand, the gameplay consists of mashing 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.., and the GMs... I never thought there could be GMs worse than those on Everquest and Sony.... wow Blizzard, you took #1.
If WoW is a sign of how MMORPGS are going to evolve (Warhammer, etc more wow clones) then i quit. I quit, or ill go back to the old school games like Asheron's Call, Everquest, or UO, dispite poor population on servers.
I miss killing some guy and talking trash to them, I miss griefing someone and taking that sword they worked a week on, I miss the 30 minutes of my life i wasted hunting down some player atleast netted the target some form of loss other than just walking back to their corpse. I miss it when my time invested in a game ment something, I miss Gms actually taking the time to come to my location and investigating something, other than sending me some BS email 3 days later.
You want to see real MMORPG again, get Turbine's original dev team back together, or throw sick amounts of money at CCP. But you arent going to find one from SOE or Blizzard, i tell you that.

let's see, did you have fun in the last 2 years of playing WoW? probably since you spend the last 2 years playing WoW.

so your basiclly pissed at the fact you can't lord it over those who didn't have the time/will to run raids 5 days a week? in that case good bye and good luck in your next MMO (oh i know you mentioned other things, it's just that, well, they didn't stop you from playing for the past 2 years, so...)

i was (still am) part of a raiding guild, am i happy to see my BWL/AQ40/Naxx gear becoming a non factor in the expension? not really, but i sure as hell like the fact the playing field is once again level, at least for a little while, and that little pishers who's sole advantage over other players was the fact they could devote vast amounts of time to the game are taken down.

Menawa · January 2007

WoW in a nutshell: grind levels, grind for gear, grind for faction reps, grind for crafting items, useless PvP

WoW expansion in a nutshell: Grind new levels, Grind new gear, grind new faction reps, Grind new crafting items, more useless PvP

Expansion pack after BC will be: Grind new levels, grind new gear, grind new faction reps, grind new crafting items, more useless PvP

Start to see the pattern yet?

WoW is the big wheel and needs more hamsters to run on it. I heard they got the "One Carrot" if you can get to it.

Xasapis · January 2007

The level increase was an excuse to put some content in and also reset the game. Yes, if you didn't notice it, they have resetted both PvP and PvE.

PvP had issues. First of all, you needed an insane amount of free time to have any measure of accomplishment. You needed to either lose your job for three months (sometimes more) or not have a job in the first place. This has changed. Whether it's for the better or worse remains to be seen.

PvE returned to it's pre-MC / early MC days. I'm sure that the raiding community will like the fact that it will be easier to set up and administer a guild based around 30-35 hardcore individuals, instead of 55-60. There is also plenty of 5-man content to satisfy all the people that enjoyed instances like Stratholme or Scholomance or Dire Maul. And there is the heroic mode, although I have no idea how that will work out.

The gameplay did not change. Big plus. Alot of companies try to change the game in such a manner with the expansion that in the end you end up with a different game. Look around a bit in the other boards and you will see people having valid complaints about it. Yes, the game feels and plays in the same way it did before. As it should be.

As for the raiding guilds, being a part of one very deep into Naxxramas, all I can say is that we are lucky to focus more on the progression than the gear. Gear are the means to achieve a target. Target being the ability to handle the next big bad boss. Other than that, gear are useless (unless you feel good about showing off).

For all the new people reading these forums, the people who badmouth WoW are either tired of it (boredom comes naturally for everything we do in our lives) or youngsters that feeling 1337 when they look down on others. The game is fun. It's not for everyone, nothing covers everyone's tastes. But it'll be a waste if you don't look for yourself onto the reasons so many people having fun.

Knightblast · January 2007

The expansion is quite fun. The new zones in Outland are large and filled with fun quests and an entertaining storyline. The two new races have fully-loaded starter zones and impressive cities, and fun storylines of their own.

If you didn't like WoW, then you won't like the expansion, but if you liked WoW at the beginning you'll probably like the expansion because it recreates that sense of "newness" with the new content. Folks who overdosed on raiding prior to BC won't be happy either because the new gear available in Outland outpaces all but the best raiding gear within a level or so, but for everyone else, it's quite a lot of fun!

theratmonkey · January 2007

>.<

World of Warcraft: The game people love to hate.

Some of you people need to find a better hobby.

Jyhad · January 2007

Nah WoW did not shot it's own foot. It just added more stuff that 8 million people have been doing already. Can't go wrong if you give people more of what they love.

ciid · January 2007

I recently reactivated to try out burning crusades and as a casual player i have to say i like it.On days i work i cant play more then 2-4 hours a day and the way content is plit up and that you can gain greater rewards over time helps the average player feel like there getting some were.After playing EQ from march of 99 thru about 6 expansions ill never go back to comiting large chunks of my life to something that i pay for to entertain me when im bored.Hopefully the expansion will give those that picked up wow as there first mmo some of the perspectives of people that picked it up as there 4-7th when it comes to time management.

Howdy, Stranger!

Did WoW just shoot it self in the foot.

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

Howdy, Stranger!

Quick Links

Did WoW just shoot it self in the foot.

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV