What exactly is/was Crushbone?

Jackdog · January 2007

found this blog relating to Vanguard and LoTRO and he keeps referring to the Crushbone feel. Apparantly LoTRO has it but Vanguard does not. I never palyed EQ so any opinions from former EQ players is appreciated.

http://tobolds.blogspot.com/2007/01/crushbone-factor.html

edit- what I am asking is for some of the people who played EQ for some of their feelings about the zone. In other words was it all that or is this guy exaggerating? What I am looking for in my next MMORPG is a MMO that feels like a persistant world. Not just a landscape with some mobs and toons plastrered on. The old UO feeling of immersion.

Maheret · January 2007

nm

retrospectic · January 2007

"Crushbone was the name of a low-level zone in the original Everquest, located just north of the wood elf starting area. The zone was populated by orcs. But it wasn't just a zone full of orc camps, the place felt positively alive. There was a whole orc ecosystem there. Emperor Crushbone is sitting in his castle, planning an invasion of Faydark with the help of his evil dark elf advisor, Ambassador D'vinn. There were mines in which the orcs forced slaves to labor. There was a hill on which the orc trainer was training the troops. And you got to see all that, because there were quests which told you the story of the place, and some of the best items in the game for that level, like the Shiny Brass Shield dropped there. The place was dangerous, especially if you wanted to take down the emperor himself, but the rewards were worth it. It was a bit like a non-instanced raid dungeon. And there is barely an Everquest player who didn't visit it, and who doesn't remember it fondly. So fondly that the latest EQ2 expansion, Echoes of Faydwer, which brings back Crushbone and the other zones of that continent is renewing the interest of many veteran gamers in that game."

Jackdog · January 2007

Originally posted by retrospectic

"Crushbone was the name of a low-level zone in the original Everquest, located just north of the wood elf starting area. The zone was populated by orcs. But it wasn't just a zone full of orc camps, the place felt positively alive. There was a whole orc ecosystem there. Emperor Crushbone is sitting in his castle, planning an invasion of Faydark with the help of his evil dark elf advisor, Ambassador D'vinn. There were mines in which the orcs forced slaves to labor. There was a hill on which the orc trainer was training the troops. And you got to see all that, because there were quests which told you the story of the place, and some of the best items in the game for that level, like the Shiny Brass Shield dropped there. The place was dangerous, especially if you wanted to take down the emperor himself, but the rewards were worth it. It was a bit like a non-instanced raid dungeon. And there is barely an Everquest player who didn't visit it, and who doesn't remember it fondly. So fondly that the latest EQ2 expansion, Echoes of Faydwer, which brings back Crushbone and the other zones of that continent is renewing the interest of many veteran gamers in that game."

Yeah I can read that in the blog I guess what I am asking is for some of the people who played EQ for some of their feelings about the zone. In other words was it all that or is this guy exaggerating?

Razorback · January 2007

Man I spent so many hours in CB on Veeshan I should have like a plaque on the wall of the throne room with my name on it. Trying to get those DE Ambassadors daggers for my ranger.... good times.... good times....

retrospectic · January 2007

Originally posted by Jackdog

Originally posted by retrospectic

"Crushbone was the name of a low-level zone in the original Everquest, located just north of the wood elf starting area. The zone was populated by orcs. But it wasn't just a zone full of orc camps, the place felt positively alive. There was a whole orc ecosystem there. Emperor Crushbone is sitting in his castle, planning an invasion of Faydark with the help of his evil dark elf advisor, Ambassador D'vinn. There were mines in which the orcs forced slaves to labor. There was a hill on which the orc trainer was training the troops. And you got to see all that, because there were quests which told you the story of the place, and some of the best items in the game for that level, like the Shiny Brass Shield dropped there. The place was dangerous, especially if you wanted to take down the emperor himself, but the rewards were worth it. It was a bit like a non-instanced raid dungeon. And there is barely an Everquest player who didn't visit it, and who doesn't remember it fondly. So fondly that the latest EQ2 expansion, Echoes of Faydwer, which brings back Crushbone and the other zones of that continent is renewing the interest of many veteran gamers in that game."

Yeah I can read that in the blog I guess what I am asking is for some of the people who played EQ for some of their feelings about the zone. In other words was it all that or is this guy exaggerating?

I played an Iksar after Kunark came out. When I finally rolled an alt I spent A LOT of time in CB. There was a belt quest that helped with exp, and a lot of good drops.

The level the guy takes it to is a lot of fluff, though. I did enjoy it, but I had similar experiences in a lot of zones in EQ. EverQuest never had a problem making their old zones full of lore.

Zindaihas · January 2007

EQ was my first MMO and I started in the city of Kelethin which was right next to Crushbone. I know exactly what the writer means. I was amazed when I entered and started fighting the orcs. It was the most immersive MMO experience I have had so far. It was exciting, scary, tense and full of adventure. I wait for the day to experience that feeling again.

Vhaln · January 2007

I remember a number of the old EQ dungeons fondly, but I also remember that with time, they were all ruined by hordes of experienced players wiping them clean. It wasn't just that EQ was new, but players were new to the whole genre, so most dungeons were death traps, and only small groups of players would venture into the entrances, pulling mobs from their dark and frightening depths.

"What's this, a well?" someone would ask, before falling screaming to thier brutal ice bone death.

Fast-forward a few months, and that same well was just a short-cut, in a brightly lit overcamped xp factory. Just wasn't the same.

My point? I don't know if any game will be able to match those early days of EQ. Not without some revolutionary dynamic change to the way dungeons work.

Razorback · January 2007

Originally posted by Vhaln

I remember a number of the old EQ dungeons fondly, but I also remember that with time, they were all ruined by hordes of experienced players wiping them clean. It wasn't just that EQ was new, but players were new to the whole genre, so most dungeons were death traps, and only small groups of players would venture into the entrances, pulling mobs from their dark and frightening depths.

"What's this, a well?" someone would ask, before falling screaming to thier brutal ice bone death.

Fast-forward a few months, and that same well was just a short-cut, in a brightly lit overcamped xp factory. Just wasn't the same.

My point? I don't know if any game will be able to match those early days of EQ. Not without some revolutionary dynamic change to the way dungeons work.

Yeah I know what you mean...

Not singling these guys out but on Veeshan we had a very large FoH guild and it was pretty hard not to be affected by them. Big guilds can be great whether your a part of them or not, but for some reason they seemed to have a negative effect on balance in EQ1. I think the main reason was the fact that if they wanted to tie up a dungoen or a spawn for days on end they could do it and in EQ1 camping was a way of life.

Vhaln · January 2007

Heh, I was on Veeshan also. I hated FOH

Anofalye · January 2007

Originally posted by retrospectic

"Crushbone was the name of a low-level zone in the original Everquest, located just north of the wood elf starting area. The zone was populated by orcs. But it wasn't just a zone full of orc camps, the place felt positively alive. There was a whole orc ecosystem there. Emperor Crushbone is sitting in his castle, planning an invasion of Faydark with the help of his evil dark elf advisor, Ambassador D'vinn. There were mines in which the orcs forced slaves to labor. There was a hill on which the orc trainer was training the troops. And you got to see all that, because there were quests which told you the story of the place, and some of the best items in the game for that level, like the Shiny Brass Shield dropped there. The place was dangerous, especially if you wanted to take down the emperor himself, but the rewards were worth it. It was a bit like a non-instanced raid dungeon. And there is barely an Everquest player who didn't visit it, and who doesn't remember it fondly. So fondly that the latest EQ2 expansion, Echoes of Faydwer, which brings back Crushbone and the other zones of that continent is renewing the interest of many veteran gamers in that game."

Better resume then I would have done, however let me add a few bullets points:

- There was a river and it was possible to fall in it and to drown, to get out you have to find ladders... However, the drowning wasn't too fast and you nearly never drawn, yet, it was panicking you! Especially if an orc was running after you! Oh, you where checking for these ladders! Drowning in itself would not be fun or really interesting, the FEAR of drowning is. Crushbone give that FEAR.

- There was quite a "maze" feeling even if it was outdoors. The place was built in a way that would look like a labyrinth with corridors. The maze was simple and not that hard too master, yet, in the action, with light changing, more or less players, Dviin blocking a way, it was possible to get lost. See, a simple maze outmatch other mazes, because peoples could master it yet still get lost in it depending on the situation.

- It was having monsters ranging from level 3 to about level 16, with the exception of Dviin and the Emperor been possibly slightly higher.

- It was accessible and relatively easy to locate for players.

- It was guarded. Even if it was relatively lightly guarded, it was guarded and this matter to me, entering it was a first feeling with the dungeon itself. Of course, the guards where usually dead and abused in many ways by players, but they where there...and since they where slightly stronger than the orcs around, it serve as an additional warning for newcomers. The orc hills and everything around, the dungeon didn't start suddenly, there was an environment around that lead to the dungeon, progressively.

- There was never any shortage of players in that dungeon, even with 6 expansions released, it was still 1 of the most populated dungeon, never obsolete. A subsequent character would often compare to old performances with other toons and try to do better than the last times.

- The orcs have funny talking, which could and have been used against the designers; in a good way!

- It wasn't overly harsh nor overly easy (unlike Najena for example, even if I like it, it was quite harsh...yet fine at higher levels, but the players are still low to experience that. Butcherblock and the undead place near freeports are examples of inferior dungeons, now I don't say these other dungeons where bad, I say they where inferior to Crushbone as peoples rather hunt around then enter them, while for Crushbone...it was great to be there ASAP. See, in BB, peoples start hunting in it with second, third or fourth toons, with Crushbone the magic was there on the first toon.).

- Sebilis is a good example of a good evolution of the Crushbone *mentality* if you can limit yourself to the areas in it that the players where playing (disco, jail, chef and these areas) while other areas of sebilis where not a good follow throught (Mushrooms for example, yet they are cool for higher levels, but they are not respecting the Crushbone mentality). Upper Kobold and the entrance of Velketor Labyrinth would also qualify as a good follow up for a high level with a Crushbone mentality, while Lower Kobold (which I love), was not respecting this mentality by been definitely more harsh. Velketor was more accessible, Sebilis main flaw was it unaccessible area, which is fine at near max level, but definitely harsher and less in accordance with Crushbone mentality.

- There was a very simple quest that increase it popularity a LOT, the quest for BELTS and SHOULDERPADS. Players knew it was extra XP to turn them, it was widely known and quite easy to keep a track of this, and making the trip to Kaladim (dwarf city to complete the quests) to turn 40 items was well worth it and a good way of ending a play session. I never recall been even annoyed at that trip, between Crushbone and Kaladim, because the reward was heavy, the trip was relatively short, you see many players on the road, and you may even get attacked. These quests are prolly the best quests of old EQ as well, despite all their simple ways and easy tracking, it was possible to hoard the rewards and get it done once...my first character even did the trip like 3 times between Kaladim and Crushbone LOL, way back when I was a noob! Players where actively seeking these, they have a goal.

Crushbone is without the slightest doubt the "best" dungeon in old EQ. Sebilis and Velketor Labyrinth more or less manage to follow throught this logic, so was the Kurnark castle...but usually other dungeons despite been interesting where just too harsh or too out of the way.

MW2K · January 2007

Yeah, it could be a fun place, especially if someone trained D'Vinn and the castle to the zone-in.

Anofalye · January 2007

Originally posted by Ulujain

Yeah, it could be a fun place, especially if someone trained D'Vinn and the castle to the zone-in.

Well, trains where easy to dodge...so they where a LOT less aggravating than in a dungeon where they where very hard to avoid. In Karnor Castle the trains where painful as they where hard to dodge, but in Crushbone, you where usually not caught by them. See, the trains was rarely bad on you, which make it all the more fun.

FEAR of the trains is fun, been trained is not.

MW2K · January 2007

Oh, I know which zones had the best potential for trains - I played an SK after all.

As far as pre-Kunark zones went, Mistmoore owned in the train department, until Kunark came out and then Karnors got its deserved legend.

But Crushbone was a fun place and I got owned by many trains there, mainly being afk at the zone, mind you.

nomadian · January 2007

For me it was blackburrow since the first character I started was a half-elf I think. Interesting if lotr is going to capture that feeling, I guess I might give it a try if they will have a free trial.

aspalmat · January 2007

Yes, Crushbone was a very nice dungeon. I think the point from this thread is that there are MANY great dungeons in EQ.

For me, it was The Estate of Unrest. Man, that place was a deathtrap. With the use trains to the zone line, and the aggro you could get from different spots in the zone. I remember walking to close to the house and aggroing stuff from the upper floors. Now that would put the fear in you. To see a Dusty Wingbat coming after you when you were like level 12 - 13 range. Of course, these situations turned into a train to the zone line, if you made it that far.

Yes, it was a deathtrap, but the experience was awesome. So, it had the proper risk/reward. That place was awsome!

The new games with their instanced dungeons have simply lost the feel of these great old dungeons from EQ. EQ did dungeons right. Yes, there were frustrations to be had, but they made you appreciate it when things went well that much more.

Fenthik · January 2007

Ahhhh, the memories of crushbone. That had to be the best zone in any game. The risk factor to fight in there was high, the rewards were great, and the community was nice. I think I still have a toon camped at the entrance to this day, probably still half dead from the ginormous train to zone. Good memories

damond5031 · January 2007

This zone was easily one of the most fun zones I have ever had the pleasure to play in. I think this was mainly, as other posters have said, due to the newness of the game and being first of its kind. I remember thinking how awesome it was to be fighting alongside tons of other players against these crazy looking monsters, and seeing the slaves for the first time is something I will never forget. It's sad that the game today is sinking quicker than Rosey Odonnel in a pool full of jello.

jimmyman99 · January 2007

/ooc TRAIN!!! RUN FOR YOUR FREAKIN LIFE!

- funny vid, for EQ1 survivors

Neanderthal · January 2007

I certainly had my share of fun in Crushbone. But like others said I think that the nostalgia some people hold for it is based more on their lost newbieness than anything else. You know, first mmorpg and all that.

It was just a low level zone with static spawns and that's all. The same spawns were always popping in the same spots every time you went in there. Or walking on the same paths that they always walked.

The thing that was great about crushbone (and other zones) was that it provided a lot of what I would call "carefree" fun. Remember that grouping was a big part of EQ. Back in the early days of EQ zones like crushbone were always buzzing with player activity. You could go there and announce that you were looking for a group and usually you could hook up with some people in a reasonably short time and then just have fun.

There's nothing really complicated about it. There was no great AI. There was no real depth to EQ. The great charm of those early EQ days was that people were generally friendly for the most part and the world was alive with players. You could log in, go where you wanted and usually hook up with a group of people you had never met before and just have fun. That's why people have such fond memories. Especially of the popular low level areas.

That all gradually changed as the population aged and the high level game never did manage to retain the fun factor of the lower levels. I could go into a rant about why that was so but that wasn't the question so I won't.

Razorback · January 2007

Originally posted by nomadian

For me it was blackburrow since the first character I started was a half-elf I think. Interesting if lotr is going to capture that feeling, I guess I might give it a try if they will have a free trial.

Funny about that I was a Half Elf Ranger and I did the big 4 hour Qeynos to Freeport trip to meet up with a buddy on the other side of the world. So consequently I spent my levels from 5 in Kelethin hanging out with woodies in CB lol.

I went back and did a lot of Blackburrow in my teens.

I strongly agree that BB had a great atmosphere too.

VengeSunsoar · January 2007

Originally posted by Ulujain

Yeah, it could be a fun place, especially if someone trained D'Vinn and the castle to the zone-in.

Ah yes. I fondly remember, when I survived that is. When the shout came out D'Vinn to zone, the zone line scattered, invised or crept to the corners and hoped that that little dark elf didnt' see them.

Still makes me grin.

Venge Sunsoar

tigris67 · January 2007

Hehe, Look at my sig, you know I'm an EQ junkie ^_^. But Yah, for me it was Blackburrow as my very first dungeon. I remember hunting in the very early noob ground of North Qeynos as one of my friends wanted to lead me into Blackburrow. I was a human and it was nighttime(my gamma was turned down so I could not see a thing) and I remember being so scared as we neared towards the dungeon of the giant mouth. The music was awsome there and you could hear the gnoll growl and scream as you entered, not to mention that there were also 2 gnoll guards guarding the giant entrance to the zone. There were waterfall pits that you could fall into that would literally have perannas at the bottom and...oh god it was just such an awsome experience! But one thing I have to agree with was this statement said earlier...

There's nothing really complicated about it. There was no great AI. There was no real depth to EQ. The great charm of those early EQ days was that people were generally friendly for the most part and the world was alive with players. You could log in, go where you wanted and usually hook up with a group of people you had never met before and just have fun. That's why people have such fond memories. Especially of the popular low level areas.

That really does say it all because EQ now is just not at all the same as what it used to be 6 years ago...no way... sure is sad.

Its funny because I have memories of Everquest that are on the same level as memories that I have of me and my family going on vacation, it may sound sad but they are just that important to me, could possibly even bring a tear to my eye if I were to let it. No other game has accomplished that.....

Razorback · January 2007

Its funny because I have memories of Everquest that are on the same level as memories that I have of me and my family going on vacation, it may sound sad but they are just that important to me, could possibly even bring a tear to my eye if I were to let it. No other game has accomplished that.....

I can relate... not with EQ as much but certainly with UO.

I dont think the things we do online have any less value compared to the things we do in life. If its important to YOU then thats what matters.

I made friends in UO that I will have for life. I have visted them in US and CA and they have come to Oz. Its a great thing this obsession of ours. Far from being the insular, geeky, unsocial closet outsiders think it is.

Vhaln · January 2007

Originally posted by tigris67

That's why people have such fond memories. Especially of the popular low level areas.

That really does say it all because EQ now is just not at all the same as what it used to be 6 years ago...no way... sure is sad.

"Especially the popular low level areas." Ever think about how there's no such thing anymore, in most MMOs? Seems like so much used to happen before level 20, in those early days of EQ. Now, it's all about endgame, because people rush past those levels faster than the devs can blink. How can they even make content for newbies, when people are only newbies for a day or two?

"Its funny because I have memories of Everquest that are on the same level as memories that I have of me and my family going on vacation, it may sound sad but they are just that important to me, could possibly even bring a tear to my eye if I were to let it. No other game has accomplished that....."

I relate, though. Except for me, I have equally fond memories of DAOC, also. Which will also never be the same as it was in the days when we didn't know how long it'd take to get to lv.50, because no one was there yet - but it sure seemed like forever.

In the end, my fond memories of DAOC lasted much longer. It was the whole endgame thing. Such camaraderie and all that, tied into RvR. EQ's endgame made me quit and never look back.

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