Its gonna happen this year, or next, and it will still beat the socks off either of these games.
Once you read Darkfall's FAQ its kinda hard to settle for playing these lesser games.
Reading the FAQ and actually getting to play the game the FAQ is based on are two different things. Again great potential, but people have been saying it's gonna be out this year or the next for the last 3 years.
Originally posted by undiesusa Yes, Darkfall is FFA pvp, but it wont be Gank and Loot, nor will it have much of a PVE grind at all.
Yes it will be gank and loot. The developers have repeatedly stated that the PVP model is one in which you gank people and take their stuff, it's actually the thing that the 'hardcore' crowd harps on the most when discussing Darkfall. Pretending that it's not a gank-and-loot game is up to you, but when you argue that the developers of the game are wrong about the information they publish about the game I think the burden of proof falls on you.
Two, It will have all player crafted weapons and items, so there wont be a pve grind for gear.
Really, so as a player I can just walk in, press a button, and BLAMMO all the gear I could want? Wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of gank-and-loot PVP, since if you loot me I'll just press 'CRAFT GEAR' again and have it all back with less difficulty than a WOW death? And I can just do this anywhere, so I don't have to spend ages carting spare gear to appropriate locations?
Of course, that's not how the developers have said crafting will work, they've said that it will work like other games, where you need to gather resources (PVE grind), work up crafting skills (PVE grind), and spend money for some components (PVE grind). And if you don't PVE grind as a crafter, then you PVE grind for money to pay a crafter for gear. Plus, there's all the travel time involved in gathering resources and transporting gear from one place to another, sorting inventories, and so on which I most definately do not consider PVP.
Again, I'll take a PVP game that allows players to spend most of their time actually engaged in PVP, not one where players spend more time grinding out replacement gear and where people avoid near-equal PVP fights because they don't want to have to PVE grind.
Well I think wow had hoped that the huge raiding would bring people together. It really only made people tolerate others long enough to get their gear and then they were gone.
I am sure that some people met many good friends through raiding. I personally prefer meeting with smaller groups of people, though; I feel as though I can get to know them better that way, and they really stand out instead of being just another 'face in the mob'.
I have nothing against raiding, really---I even enjoyed several raids in World of Warcraft the first few times through. A few people love raiding, and should be able to indulge in such gameplay. What I have a problem with is the rather odd idea that large groups of players ('raid' groups) deserve better gear from their special content which no player can enjoy in a small group. Arguably, in some games, 'raid' dungeons are slightly more challenging than small group dungeons. But that does not have to be the case at all; encounters should be appropriately scaled to the number of players engaging in one, so the challenge is always equal and so are the rewards.
Anyone here who has engaged in much balancing of encounters for D&D or whatnot is well-versed in this type of design. Unfortunately, some MMORPG creators seem to fall into the trap of not figuring out how to tweak the game mechanics in order to scale encounters, so they simply boost some special monster's abilities and therefore require a huge number of people to take it down, and call this 'more difficult'. If the game mechanics were well-designed, then this should not need to be the case, and a solo encounter would be able to be just as challenging, and net just as good of a reward, as a forty-person raid.
Thankfully, most MMORPGs are beginning to shy away from this poor design scheme. I am all for giving raiders content---but they should not receive better rewards than someone who does not raid, who should be able to engage in encounters that offer the same level of challenge.
No matter how you see it, raiding with 10 is harder than with 5. Raiding with 20 harder than with 10. And so on. For coordination purposes alone, raiding is harder than simple grouping. Furthermore, where are you going to find all these people that are skilled enough to tackle with challenging encounters? Why do you think there are so few end game raiding guilds out there if the difficulty level was in par with grouping?
Well I think wow had hoped that the huge raiding would bring people together. It really only made people tolerate others long enough to get their gear and then they were gone.
I am sure that some people met many good friends through raiding. I personally prefer meeting with smaller groups of people, though; I feel as though I can get to know them better that way, and they really stand out instead of being just another 'face in the mob'.
I have nothing against raiding, really---I even enjoyed several raids in World of Warcraft the first few times through. A few people love raiding, and should be able to indulge in such gameplay. What I have a problem with is the rather odd idea that large groups of players ('raid' groups) deserve better gear from their special content which no player can enjoy in a small group. Arguably, in some games, 'raid' dungeons are slightly more challenging than small group dungeons. But that does not have to be the case at all; encounters should be appropriately scaled to the number of players engaging in one, so the challenge is always equal and so are the rewards.
Anyone here who has engaged in much balancing of encounters for D&D or whatnot is well-versed in this type of design. Unfortunately, some MMORPG creators seem to fall into the trap of not figuring out how to tweak the game mechanics in order to scale encounters, so they simply boost some special monster's abilities and therefore require a huge number of people to take it down, and call this 'more difficult'. If the game mechanics were well-designed, then this should not need to be the case, and a solo encounter would be able to be just as challenging, and net just as good of a reward, as a forty-person raid.
Thankfully, most MMORPGs are beginning to shy away from this poor design scheme. I am all for giving raiders content---but they should not receive better rewards than someone who does not raid, who should be able to engage in encounters that offer the same level of challenge.
No matter how you see it, raiding with 10 is harder than with 5. Raiding with 20 harder than with 10. And so on. For coordination purposes alone, raiding is harder than simple grouping. Furthermore, where are you going to find all these people that are skilled enough to tackle with challenging encounters? Why do you think there are so few end game raiding guilds out there if the difficulty level was in par with grouping?
Why do I think there are so few end game raiding guilds out there? There are lots of reasons, and in my opinion difficulty isn't one of them.
No thanks, I'm looking for a game with real PVP, not a gank-and-loot game where players spend more time in PVE grinds for gear (and time moving that gear to the right spots etc.) than in actual PVP fights.
By that logic EVE is not a real PvP game.
PvP has more to it than just toe-to-toe combat for trophies in some controlled arena. Games such as EVE and Darkfall have politics that bring much bigger benefit than what you could ever get from some poor newb. But since none of that interest you the least, have fun in your little duels
As for OP, I'm a huge Warhammer fan, but so far AoC looks somewhat more interesting and I fear WoW community invasion more than anything
I would think AoC has a larger risk of the WoW community invasion due to the blood and boobies concept of the game.
No doubt about it. AoC has some good looking graphics (I mean boobies).
BTW, I can't put my finger on the link, but if you read all the FAQ and the threads about AoC you will not, I repeat WILL NOT have to raid or die. It's been stated over and over again that you won't need raid gear to be competitive in PvP, but for some reason everyone thinks that's the gospel about this game.
However, according to some of the threads on the AoC forum, you'll need a console controller to do the sword combos. Or at least it's very console controller friendly. I'm not sure what the deal is exactly, but I'm strictly a mouse and keyboard player, so if controllers are the way to go for AoC, it's definitely not the game for me.
I played the Vanguard beta some more, and it's pretty. They've made dramatic strides on performance. You still need a pretty beefy system to play Vanguard without much lag, but it's a lot better than it was a month ago. Lots of progress was made, and while it may not have the smoothest release in MMORPG history, it should be fine. The grouping game is great, and I'm still drawn to it just a tad. However, the complete lack of PvP keeps me from being really excited about this title.
So, contrary to the original post, I'm saying WAR is the One. Unless Mythic screws it up somehow, this is the one I'm waiting for, hands down. AoC looks nice, but I just don't think the gameplay is gonna measure up, especially with the console controller issue. I guess it's just wait around and see how long it takes the devs to run out of money and release WAR. You did know that's how release dates are determined in the MMORPG industry didn't you?
Comments
Actually, Age of Conan does have massive GvG sieges. Trebuchets, formations and so on.Reading the FAQ and actually getting to play the game the FAQ is based on are two different things. Again great potential, but people have been saying it's gonna be out this year or the next for the last 3 years.
Yes it will be gank and loot. The developers have repeatedly stated that the PVP model is one in which you gank people and take their stuff, it's actually the thing that the 'hardcore' crowd harps on the most when discussing Darkfall. Pretending that it's not a gank-and-loot game is up to you, but when you argue that the developers of the game are wrong about the information they publish about the game I think the burden of proof falls on you.
Really, so as a player I can just walk in, press a button, and BLAMMO all the gear I could want? Wouldn't that defeat the whole purpose of gank-and-loot PVP, since if you loot me I'll just press 'CRAFT GEAR' again and have it all back with less difficulty than a WOW death? And I can just do this anywhere, so I don't have to spend ages carting spare gear to appropriate locations?
Of course, that's not how the developers have said crafting will work, they've said that it will work like other games, where you need to gather resources (PVE grind), work up crafting skills (PVE grind), and spend money for some components (PVE grind). And if you don't PVE grind as a crafter, then you PVE grind for money to pay a crafter for gear. Plus, there's all the travel time involved in gathering resources and transporting gear from one place to another, sorting inventories, and so on which I most definately do not consider PVP.
Again, I'll take a PVP game that allows players to spend most of their time actually engaged in PVP, not one where players spend more time grinding out replacement gear and where people avoid near-equal PVP fights because they don't want to have to PVE grind.
I am sure that some people met many good friends through raiding. I personally prefer meeting with smaller groups of people, though; I feel as though I can get to know them better that way, and they really stand out instead of being just another 'face in the mob'.
I have nothing against raiding, really---I even enjoyed several raids in World of Warcraft the first few times through. A few people love raiding, and should be able to indulge in such gameplay. What I have a problem with is the rather odd idea that large groups of players ('raid' groups) deserve better gear from their special content which no player can enjoy in a small group. Arguably, in some games, 'raid' dungeons are slightly more challenging than small group dungeons. But that does not have to be the case at all; encounters should be appropriately scaled to the number of players engaging in one, so the challenge is always equal and so are the rewards.
Anyone here who has engaged in much balancing of encounters for D&D or whatnot is well-versed in this type of design. Unfortunately, some MMORPG creators seem to fall into the trap of not figuring out how to tweak the game mechanics in order to scale encounters, so they simply boost some special monster's abilities and therefore require a huge number of people to take it down, and call this 'more difficult'. If the game mechanics were well-designed, then this should not need to be the case, and a solo encounter would be able to be just as challenging, and net just as good of a reward, as a forty-person raid.
Thankfully, most MMORPGs are beginning to shy away from this poor design scheme. I am all for giving raiders content---but they should not receive better rewards than someone who does not raid, who should be able to engage in encounters that offer the same level of challenge.
No matter how you see it, raiding with 10 is harder than with 5. Raiding with 20 harder than with 10. And so on. For coordination purposes alone, raiding is harder than simple grouping. Furthermore, where are you going to find all these people that are skilled enough to tackle with challenging encounters? Why do you think there are so few end game raiding guilds out there if the difficulty level was in par with grouping?I am sure that some people met many good friends through raiding. I personally prefer meeting with smaller groups of people, though; I feel as though I can get to know them better that way, and they really stand out instead of being just another 'face in the mob'.
I have nothing against raiding, really---I even enjoyed several raids in World of Warcraft the first few times through. A few people love raiding, and should be able to indulge in such gameplay. What I have a problem with is the rather odd idea that large groups of players ('raid' groups) deserve better gear from their special content which no player can enjoy in a small group. Arguably, in some games, 'raid' dungeons are slightly more challenging than small group dungeons. But that does not have to be the case at all; encounters should be appropriately scaled to the number of players engaging in one, so the challenge is always equal and so are the rewards.
Anyone here who has engaged in much balancing of encounters for D&D or whatnot is well-versed in this type of design. Unfortunately, some MMORPG creators seem to fall into the trap of not figuring out how to tweak the game mechanics in order to scale encounters, so they simply boost some special monster's abilities and therefore require a huge number of people to take it down, and call this 'more difficult'. If the game mechanics were well-designed, then this should not need to be the case, and a solo encounter would be able to be just as challenging, and net just as good of a reward, as a forty-person raid.
Thankfully, most MMORPGs are beginning to shy away from this poor design scheme. I am all for giving raiders content---but they should not receive better rewards than someone who does not raid, who should be able to engage in encounters that offer the same level of challenge.
No matter how you see it, raiding with 10 is harder than with 5. Raiding with 20 harder than with 10. And so on. For coordination purposes alone, raiding is harder than simple grouping. Furthermore, where are you going to find all these people that are skilled enough to tackle with challenging encounters? Why do you think there are so few end game raiding guilds out there if the difficulty level was in par with grouping?Why do I think there are so few end game raiding guilds out there? There are lots of reasons, and in my opinion difficulty isn't one of them.
No thanks, I'm looking for a game with real PVP, not a gank-and-loot game where players spend more time in PVE grinds for gear (and time moving that gear to the right spots etc.) than in actual PVP fights.
By that logic EVE is not a real PvP game.PvP has more to it than just toe-to-toe combat for trophies in some controlled arena. Games such as EVE and Darkfall have politics that bring much bigger benefit than what you could ever get from some poor newb. But since none of that interest you the least, have fun in your little duels
As for OP, I'm a huge Warhammer fan, but so far AoC looks somewhat more interesting and I fear WoW community invasion more than anything
I would think AoC has a larger risk of the WoW community invasion due to the blood and boobies concept of the game.
BTW, I can't put my finger on the link, but if you read all the FAQ and the threads about AoC you will not, I repeat WILL NOT have to raid or die. It's been stated over and over again that you won't need raid gear to be competitive in PvP, but for some reason everyone thinks that's the gospel about this game.
However, according to some of the threads on the AoC forum, you'll need a console controller to do the sword combos. Or at least it's very console controller friendly. I'm not sure what the deal is exactly, but I'm strictly a mouse and keyboard player, so if controllers are the way to go for AoC, it's definitely not the game for me.
I played the Vanguard beta some more, and it's pretty. They've made dramatic strides on performance. You still need a pretty beefy system to play Vanguard without much lag, but it's a lot better than it was a month ago. Lots of progress was made, and while it may not have the smoothest release in MMORPG history, it should be fine. The grouping game is great, and I'm still drawn to it just a tad. However, the complete lack of PvP keeps me from being really excited about this title.
So, contrary to the original post, I'm saying WAR is the One. Unless Mythic screws it up somehow, this is the one I'm waiting for, hands down. AoC looks nice, but I just don't think the gameplay is gonna measure up, especially with the console controller issue. I guess it's just wait around and see how long it takes the devs to run out of money and release WAR. You did know that's how release dates are determined in the MMORPG industry didn't you?
MMORPG Maker
Developers never finish a game, they just run out of money.