We want official froums..

Comments

• Blurr Member UncommonPosts: 2,155

  January 2007

  I don't want official forums.

  Basically what they're doing is not providing official forums so it doesn't become a cesspool of only fanboys and trolls like the WoW forums are.

  With the affiliated sites, you know which sites will have reliable information, information that's supported by Sigil, and there'll be a few different places to get that information. Don't trust info from a site that's not "Affiliated" because that means they haven't gotten Sigils seal of approval. Whether it be because they do goldselling or whatever.

  Try SilkyVenom, or TenTonHammer, those are two sites I use.

  Personally I think your argument is faulty. For example, you put out SWG and MXO as games for Vanguard to strive to be like? I don't think so. As well, you make it sound like Guild Wars is some horrible game, when in fact it's a very well done and great game played by many.

  Personally, I say kudos to the devs for putting the focus on the fansites instead of a pit of forums where all the vocal minorities will collect.

  "Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
• ginfress01 Member Posts: 203

  January 2007

  Wise choice not to have official forums. Most times 95% of it is full of crap where devs have to weed until they find something usefull. 
• hellmutt Member Posts: 60

  January 2007

  The people at Sigil are very smart on this. Your post is very well stated yet I cannot agree. The people who run the "recommended"  sites for vanguard are indeed on a first name basis with the devs. Technically the game took about six years to make. In that time, a edifice of trust was built between the webmasters and the developers.  I promise you that relationship has provided a few amazing sites, with a tremendous amount of information.
  
  
  
  Coupled with active forums and a helpful community, This makes for better game.

  
• Metalak Member Posts: 7

  January 2007

  Plus by not having forums it reduces their accountability to the customer. Wouldnt want to have any of that crazy accountability flying around now would we.
• twohawks Member Posts: 18

  January 2007

  Respects to your thoughts ... but  an official site is none the less the one single guarentee a paying customer has.. as often as not affialiate sites also have their share of  trolls and cliques...   If official boards were as bad as they are made out to be the why do so many of the top games maintain them? My bet is customer service... which is what this game is lacking in this one ... and I stipulate one area.

  Justice
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  Dead O' Nite: Scraper
  Poltergiest: Controler
  Warlock Hunter: Blaster
  Undead Stalker: Controler
  SecretAgent Man: Blaster
  Dark Intellect: Defender
• sairusco Member Posts: 133

  January 2007

  EQII has support forums but I never saw the use of it, there are so many questions and complains for the devs it's almost impossible to filter the ones that make sense out of it. And the wow forums... well I've tried it once or twice but the fastest way to get to the devs in wow is by making a ticket.
• apocalance Member UncommonPosts: 1,073

  January 2007

  There's no guarantee in official forums that the company will listen to your or even respond. I don't really care if they have official forums, though it does make it difficult to find good forums to stick with for Vanguard.

  so...
• docminus Member Posts: 717

  January 2007

  there is a site where sigil folks post atm:
  
  
  
  www.silkyvenom.com/
  

  
• dragonace Member UncommonPosts: 1,185

  January 2007

  Originally posted by twohawks
  
  ...
  
  No forum
  
  http://www.vanguardsoh.com/status.php
  
  http://www.guildwars.com/
  
  
  
  Good company your keeping there Sigil...
  
  

  You could also add Final Fantasy XI to the list of NO forums.
  
  
  
  Heh, I think you kinda meant it as a joke, but actually I think Vanguard would be very happy with the subscription numbers of both Guild Wars and Final Fantasy XI.
  
  
  
  The no official forums were talked about and decided over a year ago when the official forums were still up.  Here's a link to one of the last threads that they talked about it.
  
  
  
  Perhaps it will answer some of your questions for you.
  
  
  
  forums.vanguardsoh.com/showthread.php
• Deathstrike2 Member UncommonPosts: 1,777

  January 2007

  I'm shocked that they've decided not to have official forums.  When I want to hear what's going on with the game I'm paying for, I want to hear it right from the source.  Hunting for accurate information spread out on several sites just sounds frustrating to me.  I don't want to see official information offered through someone else's rose colored glasses, if you know what I mean. 

  Are they trying to save money by not shouldering the costs that go along with maintaining forums?  I don't get it.  What company doesn't like to have direct communication with its customers?
• airhead Member UncommonPosts: 718

  January 2007

  Originally posted by Deathstrike2
  
  
  Are they trying to save money by not shouldering the costs that go along with maintaining forums?  I don't get it.  What company doesn't like to have direct communication with its customers?
  

  Companies that have no faith in their product? That fear they will be overrun with hate-posts?     but even then, it would be better to have official forums, cause there you at least could clean it up, ban people you don't like, etc. To not have an official forum is to relinquish information control over where you disseminate information to customers, the end effect being that your product is going to get trashed, slandered falsely, and ultimately driven into the ground and there will be nothing you can do about it.   ...makes not sense to me at all...
• dragonace Member UncommonPosts: 1,185

  January 2007

  Originally posted by Deathstrike2
  
  
  I'm shocked that they've decided not to have official forums.  When I want to hear what's going on with the game I'm paying for, I want to hear it right from the source.  Hunting for accurate information spread out on several sites just sounds frustrating to me.  I don't want to see official information offered through someone else's rose colored glasses, if you know what I mean. 
  Are they trying to save money by not shouldering the costs that go along with maintaining forums?  I don't get it.  What company doesn't like to have direct communication with its customers?
  

  Seriously read the link from above - or here, I'll link it again:
  
  
  
  forums.vanguardsoh.com/showthread.php
  
  
  
  It answers all those questions you just asked and then some.  If you don't agree or like the answers, well so be it.
• Lidane Member CommonPosts: 2,300

  January 2007

  Originally posted by airhead
  
  Originally posted by Deathstrike2
  
  
  Are they trying to save money by not shouldering the costs that go along with maintaining forums?  I don't get it.  What company doesn't like to have direct communication with its customers?
  

  Companies that have no faith in their product? That fear they will be overrun with hate-posts?     but even then, it would be better to have official forums, cause there you at least could clean it up, ban people you don't like, etc. To not have an official forum is to relinquish information control over where you disseminate information to customers, the end effect being that your product is going to get trashed, slandered falsely, and ultimately driven into the ground and there will be nothing you can do about it.   ...makes not sense to me at all...
  
  There's a lot of truth to that.
  
  
  
  Official forums allow a company to control the message that is put out there about their product. Leaving it all to fansites is dangerous, because fansites are notoriously cliquish and ruthlessly censor anything that they don't like hearing. Without an official forum, the devs of a game don't get a real sense of what is being said out there about their product, since on fansites, anyone who doesn't tow the party line 100% of the time gets marginalized and ignored, and only a rosy picture gets shown.
  
  
  
  Also, by giving the fans control over how the information is distributed, you stand the very real chance of customers that don't care about fansites, and who just want information becoming frustrated by not being able to simply find what they need at an official repository, which is what people generally expect when they buy a product these days.
  
  
  
  It's a very dangerous, double-edged sword here for Vanguard to not have a unified, official forum, IMO.
• w175jab Member Posts: 239

  January 2007

  Decentralization is a good thing...
  
  
  
  The Devs are just as capable of browsing through a few forums to figure out ways to improve and expand their product as we are. 
  
  
  
  Perhaps we could encourage people to only use a few forums to keep the information concentrated and the communities diverse.
  
  
  
  Good information and forums can generally be found at the following site:  http://vanguardvault.ign.com/
  
  
  
  The in-game community is what matters, not the forum community.  The focus should be on the in-game experience and community growth, rather than the community growth on an official forum. 
  
  
  
  Hopefully the result will be a more meaningful, deep and involving experience with a considerably more mature, helpful and welcoming atmosphere.
  
  
  
  Cheers
• Lidane Member CommonPosts: 2,300

  January 2007

  Originally posted by w175jab
  
  The in-game community is what matters, not the forum community.  The focus should be on the in-game experience and community growth, rather than the community growth on an official forum. 
  
  

  Not the point. It's about ease of access to information, not community bonding.
  
  
  
  By forcing customers to have to crawl around several different fansites for information, and to navigate the politics of those fan forums in order to get any solid answers, Vanguard is only doing a disservice to itself.
  
  
  
  These days, people like convenience when it comes to getting information. They don't like having to jump through dozens of different hoops to get what they need to know. Getting the official scoop at an official site goes a long way in that regard. Having to go to different fansites to get answers? Not so much.
• twohawks Member Posts: 18

  January 2007

  Wow one of the boards I posted on's mod staff actually has nor attacked me ... cool  All the posts here seem well thought out for the most part....  awesome.. incase some of you want to respond for or against here are other links to sites I posted on...
  
  
  
  
  
  forums.tentonhammer.com/showthread.php
  
  this thread was locked  and we reposted it  here
  
  forums.tentonhammer.com/showthread.php
  
  
  
  vnboards.ign.com/vanguard_saga_of_heroes_general_board/b22523/101192899/p1/

  Justice
  Spirithawk: Defender
  Dampyre Defender:
  Dead O' Nite: Scraper
  Poltergiest: Controler
  Warlock Hunter: Blaster
  Undead Stalker: Controler
  SecretAgent Man: Blaster
  Dark Intellect: Defender
• TommyKHart Member UncommonPosts: 294

  January 2007

  The information is all there for you to find. You're just too lazy to go to the tech support or join a affiliate site.
• twohawks Member Posts: 18

  January 2007

  ohh a troll...
  
  
  
  you are of course are correct that I am to lazy... hmm seems like a lot of work I went through to post my opinion here and on 2 other sites as well as email both sigil and soe to express this but your right I am lazy...

  Justice
  Spirithawk: Defender
  Dampyre Defender:
  Dead O' Nite: Scraper
  Poltergiest: Controler
  Warlock Hunter: Blaster
  Undead Stalker: Controler
  SecretAgent Man: Blaster
  Dark Intellect: Defender
• Blurr Member UncommonPosts: 2,155

  January 2007

  Okay well you're not helping your case by calling that guy a troll. Some would call you a troll for posting these threads on multiple sites, and emailing sigil, and email soe.

  I certainly have no problem finding information on the game, it's just that other people would rather have all the information handed to them on a nice silver platter. They'd rather have other people do the work and spoonfeed them than spend a few minutes looking for the information.

  It gets frustrating sometimes when you spend the 2 minutes required to get information (ie, Why isn't there a manual? Well there is, type in 'vanguard' and 'manual' into google. How many people say "Will my machine run this?" when there's minimum and recommended specs in like 10 different places?). Don't get me wrong, I don't mind helping people, I do it quite frequently, especially ingame.

  However, all the information is readily available out there if you actually try to look for it yourself. When there's a big problem, like the level loss issue last night, they post info about it on the main page, and the tech support forums, and they broadcast info ingame multiple times.

  They've stated why they are not having official forums, and the majority of people are fine with this. If you don't like their reasons, that's up to you, but they've made their decision and they aren't going to change it without signifigant good reason. From what I read of your reasons, personally I don't think they're good enough to warrant a change.

  Edit: oh I wanted to add on another point. They say they don't want to centralize players of different mindsets, which was something I don't know if you'd grasped or not. This basically means when they want to get info on druids from druid players, they can go over to the Druid affiliated site and talk to people who are there all the time because they like being druids and they really know what they're talking about. Then they can freely exchange information without worrying about other classes' vocal members chiming in to complain about this or that.

  "Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
• Lidane Member CommonPosts: 2,300

  January 2007

  Originally posted by Blurr
  
  I certainly have no problem finding information on the game, it's just that other people would rather have all the information handed to them on a nice silver platter. They'd rather have other people do the work and spoonfeed them than spend a few minutes looking for the information.
  

  it's this attitude that is precisely why Vanguard will be a niche game and nothing more.
  
  
  
  The idea that anyone who wants an efficient system (read: NOT a bunch of fansites handling distribution of official information) is some sort of gibbering, simple-minded retard or mindless kiddie who wants it all handed to them is both insulting and elitist.
  
  
  
  Some people actually prefer a more streamlined, efficient system of information. Who wants to have to go to twenty different fansites and fan forums to get an answer that could much more easily be handled by a single post at an official developer forum at the official Vanguard site? it's a waste of valuable play time that could otherwise be spent in game, or in doing something more productive.
  
  
  
  Wanting an efficient and streamlined process for information, and preferring that all that information and interaction be readily available at an official site doesn't make someone a helpless kid who wants a handout. It make them someone who expects a level of professionalism from a company that expects you to pay to play their game. If you're paying for it, then you have the right to expect some level of service in return, and that includes an official forum.
• airhead Member UncommonPosts: 718

  January 2007

  @ Lidane... don't fall for Blur's baiting; the majority he imagines lives just there.... in imagination. SOE will eventually come around when the revenue doesn't stack up to expectations; money is the only real voice of authority anyway...
• Karandor Member Posts: 113

  January 2007

  DAoC also does not have official forums.
  
  
  
  Official forums suck balls. The WoW forums totally killed off any community sites where people could say whatever they want. In DAoC they followed the forums very well. No official forums meant that the community actually had MORE involvement if anything.
  
  
  
  Official forums are always 99% whines or spam.
• Blurr Member UncommonPosts: 2,155

  January 2007

  Lidane, you don't get it.

  The system they have now isn't "inefficient", it's just decentralized. If anything, the information is in more than one spot, and on sites that are endorsed by Sigil. Not having an official forum for you to bitch in does not make it a "niche" game, the two have nothing to do with eachother and it's a pretty big leap to come to that conclusion.

  You guys are falsely claiming that no forums means no information. That's just an outright lie. Infact they post very important information on their main website, and if necessary their technical support forums. The only difference is that there's no place for players to directly bitch at the developers. about unimportant things.

  Tell me, what possible information could you want that's important enough where you need a direct line to the developers, which isn't major game information like that which they post on their main page, or in their technical support forum? Seriously, I'd love to knowwhat kinda super important stuff requires an official forum, which you can't get from simply looking at one of the many affiliated sites. I mean, it's not like you get charged for each page you view on the internet. It takes about as much time to do a quick search for something as it would to search through some forums.

  Besides, most of the people (in this thread for example) are fine without having an official forum. Sigil also gave very good reasons as to why they decided not to. It's not a game breaking decision as much as you'd like to think so either.

  So seriously, what possible information could be so important that it requires a direct line to the developers, but isn't covered by their main page or the technical support forums? Personally I can't think of anything except information that would just be frivolous spoonfeeding.

  "Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
• Jackdog Member UncommonPosts: 6,321

  January 2007

  Originally posted by Karandor
  
  DAoC also does not have official forums.
  
  
  
  Official forums suck balls. The WoW forums totally killed off any community sites where people could say whatever they want. In DAoC they followed the forums very well. No official forums meant that the community actually had MORE involvement if anything.
  
  
  
  Official forums are always 99% whines or spam.

  
  
  does Vanguard have any sites that compare to the Camelot Herald, which has been there since before launch BTW linked at the top the official page

  http://www.darkageofcamelot.com/

  I miss DAoC
• twitch242 Member UncommonPosts: 177

  January 2007

  Official forums have allways and will allways be useless. Apart from meaby a tech forum, that have allready been opened, there is no reason or use for them. If you cannot even figure out how to find the info, then im not sure what to tell you. Using HZ etc as example just show youre cluelss also, its not even possible to create forum account there no matter how many subscriptions you have. In any case, i would much rather prefer close dev chat on safehouse etc than reading 375395 norris spam post...