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General: MMOWTF: Vapor Where?
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
Dan Fortier returns this week to talk about his different categories of vaporware games.
Do me a favor before we get started: Take a long deep breath. I hope most of you took in a nice lung full of semi-fresh air and now have a mild head rush. For those of you who happen to live downtown or are crazy enough to have a litter box next to your desk, you are probably feeling slightly nauseous right about now. Aside from a bit of internet sadism, my point was that vapors can be good or bad depending on where you're sitting. This week I plan on dissecting the nature of vaporware in all its forms. Blindfold the kids and buckle up!
Read the whole column here.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
My definition of vaporware is extremely simple:
If I cannot play it, it is vaporware.
Thus, any game that is not released or in public beta, or a beta I'm invited to, holds that classification. I won't believe a single word a developer says until I can confirm it. Saves me a world of disappointments.
They have videos, thousands of screenshots, an external beta server running, large amounts of funding, allow media into their offices.
Sounds like a poor choice to me.
MMO's Played: 20 , Closed Beta: 9 , Open Beta: 3 , Currently:Warhammer Beta
Guild: Futilez
to a game that isnt released and has so far gotten pretty sweet reviews from people. If the Darkfall devs release
a crappy as product, then you can compare the two.
Why list mount and blade. Not only is it not an MMO, but for 15 bucks the damn game rocks.
Not vaporware.
D&L has to be the most famous vaporware of all time. They scammed thousands of people, and still continue to do so.
I would also throw all these "item mall" korean games into the vaporware category. They are very shallow games that just try to scam players into buying stuff.
Well if Dan says so…
Who is Dan Fortier Anyway???
Quitters never win...
It's interesting to note the definition and categories that Dan Fortier has used to define Vaporware, but not in very good taste to name names, unless he feels he can prove that these titles are less than legitimate. Liabolous IMO
Still freedom of expression and opinion is a good thing.
I am a gamer, I support games in development, and i'd like to think this site does. What bothers me with this artical is the negative term used to describe titles such as M&B which is a project in development that I have spent many hours enjoying. It is by no means vaporware to any degree. I bought the key when it was around $10 and get free upgrades with each version. What more could I ask?
M&B is hardly vaporware and I highly reccomend it to anyone interested in supporting a continuing project in development.
I'm also following Darkfalls forums, but that is a free excersise, my only investment is time and interest. They ask for nothing, and have in fact suggested that their forum members not spend days browsing, but check in now and then. They promised a beta too soon, and that was a learning process for them. I'l give them the latitude (wiggle room) on that one.
I support their forum because by just being there I show the industry my interest in that style of game. If ever the industry can move to a more meaningful concept in MMOrpg, the player base must show them the market potential. By being there we do this.
But bashing games 1, 2 and 3 can drive off potential interest, and help contribute to the stagnation of the industry.
So bite your tongue Dan, you meant well (maybe), or maybe you just like to toot your own horn.
No more Trivial MMO's, let's get serious "again". Make a world, not a game
What I listen to
Well, that's the problem. We all have expectations about how long a game should take to "develop." We also expect it to achieve certain progress points along the way and eventually, set a release date and ship. I think these two games have been in development for a long time...with no firm release date targeted. Historically, games that follow this pattern get cancelled at a high rate. (no, not all the time of course) hence they were tossed into the Vaporware category.
And just because he called them vaporware doesn't mean they won't one day see the light of day..and even succeed.... he doesn't have a crystal ball, just expressing his opinion, which is the task he is charged with.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well, that's the problem. We all have expectations about how long a game should take to "develop." We also expect it to achieve certain progress points along the way and eventually, set a release date and ship. I think these two games have been in development for a long time...with no firm release date targeted. Historically, games that follow this pattern get cancelled at a high rate. (no, not all the time of course) hence they were tossed into the Vaporware category.
And just because he called them vaporware doesn't mean they won't one day see the light of day..and even succeed.... he doesn't have a crystal ball, just expressing his opinion, which is the task he is charged with.
Expressing his opinion???? as an mmo expert, or as a programmer?
Well, for sure he is not a programmer…
http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:mFvZsWBorXQJ:archivist.incutio.com/viewlist/css-discuss/49219+Who+is+Dan+Fortier&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=9
Is he an expert?
Yes, but he named names which is the point I was driving home in my comment.
So if he has any credibility, he may affect what support these projects recieve.
I for one fully support M&B, and find it inconcievable anyone would drag it into that category.
Projects like these don't have 60 million dollars to spend in development. If they had that type of funding then possibly they'd not fit into this category proposed by Dan.
So let's say they had a backer, but this backer had his own "vision" that was influenced by an executive board which was used marketing specialists so that they could be insured a good return. Thus corrupting the original design and producing more stale crap that already floods the market in todays games.
That's my reasoning for having a strong negative reaction to this.
It's one thing to voice an opinion, but another to name names and inhibit creativity by disolving interest in fledgling projects no matter how long the cycle.
M&B gives you something for your dollar, and honestly more than I expected, it's a great "as is" game. DF my other interest promises something but costs me nothing. If anything to me it's my vote in the future of MMO's (my preferances)
So Dan needs to use a little more taste and tact when it comes to his power of the pen...
Should'nt let children play with matches
No more Trivial MMO's, let's get serious "again". Make a world, not a game
What I listen to
No more Trivial MMO's, let's get serious "again". Make a world, not a game
What I listen to
Zitch sums it very well. M&B is a great game already, not to mention its mod comunity that expands the lifetime of the game greatly. You dont get to spend 15 bucks for such quality game much. Much more enjoyable than NWN2 for instance.
It does not take one to be an expert in MMO's or a programmer to be able to list off games they have an opinion of to be vaporware,
Darkfall has been in production since right around or before August of 2002.
Age of Mourning (Thrones of Chaos) has been bought twice since , July of 2004 and to my best knowledge is no closer to release since its first buyout by COlton Burgess and Loud ANt Software.
Mount and Blade I have no information on so I will not even try and defend anything on it.
Darkfall in this case is well classified as vaporware. It falls into the same case as Dark and Light and will so until its released. Many people also thought WoW was vaporware as well. WoW showed itself not to be the case but Dark and Light has certainly shown to be so.
Age of Mourning on the other hand has not really shown anything other than being able to be bought up by one company or another. Loud Ant and Colton Burgess had problems of one kind or another with it.
*Note* If the writer was speaking of Realms of Mourning/Krel/Torment to my knowledge it is not even functioning anymore.
The article does break down the certain stages of games they get delayed or postponed. There are a host of games out there they have gotten enormous amounts of funding and are either dead or dieing a very slow death. Dark and Light for my money though is the best recent example of vaporware in any form.
Funny that this mmo “expert” writes an article about M&B in an mmo website! As we all know M&B it’s a single player game.
It seems that Dan is not an expert either…
Mr. Fortier, for being an ignorant reporter in the gaming industry, I feel that you should stop writing about games and that you should apologize to this community about your lack of knowledge.
Well, I liked the article but like most of the posters here I absolutely disagree with the idea that Mount and Blade is vapourware. I've also heard good things about Darkfall, but havent had a ton of interest in it myself.
Anyways, I think what we can take from this article the most is how little vapourware there actually is out there. I think the writer of this article pulled names like M&B and Darkfall because there are simply too few vapourware out there to write a list of, so he began to search and prod the boundries of the term. Its easy to jump on the pesimistic view that there are too many vapourware games out there, but there really arent that many. Just a few, and most of em arent even really harmful to any one.
So, heres to life.
Play as your fav retro characters: cnd-online.net. My site: www.lysle.net. Blog: creatingaworld.blogspot.com.
I am sad having to say this, but I think mmorpg.com's articles get cheaper and cheaper. I always get the feeling, they don't really know, what they are talking about and there is no real funding to the writing. At the end it's just blah-blah.
The titles promise much and I am more and more disappointed, when I finish these articles, because there is no point, no conclusion, no research behind it and generally no statement at all.
To this article:
We all know, there are vaporware games, but I am also in an independent team of industry professionals, which tries to make a game. We are serious in our proposition and we are working hard on the project since 2 years, but it is hard to make progress without any money, but only with dedication.
These teams are trying to make games without greedy publishers, to be able to make the games, which players want to play, but not cookie cutter grind games. Therefore they have to accept longer development time and harder circumstances in general.
I think, it is a bit rude to bash such projects and development teams totally pointless. It is even more rude getting bashed by mmorpg.com staff, whose mission should be to support, advertise and help such projects, not goofing them off.
Such articles are just stirring up very ugly, but it's not serious journalism and for sure not objectively pointing out the black sheeps of the industry to warn the community (which may have been the original intention).
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