I am sad having to say this, but I think mmorpg.com's articles get cheaper and cheaper. I always get the feeling, they don't really know, what they are talking about and there is no real funding to the writing. At the end it's just blah-blah. The titles promise much and I am more and more disappointed, when I finish these articles, because there is no point, no conclusion, no research behind it and generally no statement at all. To this article: We all know, there are vaporware games, but I am also in an independent team of industry professionals, which tries to make a game. We are serious in our proposition and we are working hard on the project since 2 years, but it is hard to make progress without any money, but only with dedication. These teams are trying to make games without greedy publishers, to be able to make the games, which players want to play, but not cookie cutter grind games. Therefore they have to accept longer development time and harder circumstances in general. I think, it is a bit rude to bash such projects and development teams totally pointless. It is even more rude getting bashed by mmorpg.com staff, whose mission should be to support, advertise and help such projects, not goofing them off. Such articles are just stirring up very ugly, but it's not serious journalism and for sure not objectively pointing out the black sheeps of the industry to warn the community (which may have been the original intention).
It doesn't matter how dedicated a team is or how much blood sweet and tears they have given it. A games is either out in a timely mannor or its vaporware until proven otherwise. The gaming world like Technology doesn't sit still, what people want or think a game should have changes and what can be done and how a game looks changes. Keep pace with the pack or fall behind.
Usually a definition of terms is a prelude to making a point or engaging others in a debate (or argument, depending upon maturity) but the author simply defines terms and then does absolutely nothing with the subject. WTF indeed. If you're going to bother writing this drivel, at least have a point to make. I presume you couldn't compose anything constructive, take the week off next time instead.
I'd get into a discussion of what I call shillware and how Sony Online Entertainment's MMO Star Wars Galaxies qualifies as such, and then take this point somewhere more meaningful, but this thread is pointless. Ciao.
SWG Veteran and Refugee, Intrepid server NGE free as of Nov. 22, 2005 Now Playing: World of Warcrack Forum Terrorist
What an odd way of defining vapourware? I always considered vapourware to be software that was either non existent and presented by use of fabricated screenshots or footage from a graphics engine that would never support a full game or a game that due to lack of funds or skilled development would never see the light of day.
I don't think you can class released games as vapourware no matter what state they are released in. These games fall into the 'crap game' category instead.
Mayhaps you need to look at some of the definitions he used to describe the categories he used. Becomes much more clear with a little comprehension.
What is clear is that he defined his categories according to his own self indulgent requirements. In order to begin this little flamefest.
(like I said, children should'nt play with matches)
The real definition of vaporware (and that's how I spell it), and we can skip the "categories", is a game that is "fabrication" or a lie. Commonly intended to defraud con or fool an invester or invester group (possibly forum monkeys).
It's a front put up with the intent to swindle. That's how I define it.
So let me repeat, because obviously you missed it.
Attaching names to a derogatory term, and re-defining that term in order to make his case, is cheezy journalism. I mean this guy should be working for the "enquirer" and not this site. (maybe that's what his ambition is). He's not interested in games, not promoting them or the genre. More likely self interest and gratification. (yeah I got all that from one artical).
Anyways he's gotten more attention than he deserves.
If anything it's allowed me to blow off some unrelated steam I have with games, and the industry and it's current sad state.
No more Trivial MMO's, let's get serious "again". Make a world, not a game What I listen to
This was a fun read though not much in it. I followed Mourning and was really excited about what was proposed. Just glad I did not get too involved because it seemed to be having trouble.
I think the first sentence here nicely sums up this entire column. It's a fairly bad example of tabloid journalism. It does, very much, come over as the author being very fond of the sound of his own voice and someone has given him a platform.
I have no axe to grind about the games he has chosen to slate. I don't play them, I don't work for them, I've had no interest in them. I simply don't like the tone of the articles this column produces.
there is a serious discrepency between Dan's definition of vaporware and the definitions of many of the posters here...
IMHO vaporware can be....
a con - no game exists or ever will
a game that is genuinely being developed, but never make release due to a variety of factors that may include, but not limited to...
lack of funding
lack of experience to make work
a product so poorly conceived the plug is pulled to save face / further expenditure
DnL & Mourning are not vaporware - since they exist and reached the public. They are just sh1tware
M&B is a game that can be purchased and played (should a non-mmo even be discussed with these others?) and is therefore not vaporware
Darkfall should not be considered with the sh1tware - since it has not released. It could be however be referred to as vaporware since there remains a possibility that lack of funding and experience of the developers could potentially mean the game never makes it. However, Aventurine claim to have adequate funding, and a remote server running for potential partners, and a very rabid and active forum.
The delays and slow progress of development could be adequately explained that the size and scope of the game has vastly increased in line with the increase in the developers' expectations from initial concept, along with the small team. This could mean it is just another game in development, to be put in the same catergory as AoC and WAR.
What I like about this article is that it holds an MMO accountable for hype. D&L was sold to a lot of people based exclusively on hype, yet what was delivered was nothing like what was promised. Sure, they have a server that is (kind of) running and the game does technically “exist”, but it is nothing like what it was hyped to be. Thus, it earns the title of vaporware.
Another game that is beginning to look like it fits in the vaporware category is Hero’s Journey. I am one of the biggest Simutronics fanboys out there. I played Dragonrealms for more years than I can remember and I truly hope Hero’s Journey makes it. However, so far there is nothing more than hype for HJ.
Mount and Blade isn't vaporware. Thats like calling gmail or froogle vaporware. Yah the dev keeps making the game better and adding more features... ... ...that bastard?
If you're using that criteria for making a game vaporware then just about every mmo under the sun would be vaporware... and worse yet, most of them weren't honest they they were still in beta. Lastly, Mount & Blade is exactly what it says it is, you can download a demo version and play it before buying it... and the full version is exactly more of the same.
What an odd way of defining vapourware? I always considered vapourware to be software that was either non existent and presented by use of fabricated screenshots or footage from a graphics engine that would never support a full game or a game that due to lack of funds or skilled development would never see the light of day.
I don't think you can class released games as vapourware no matter what state they are released in. These games fall into the 'crap game' category instead.
I think the same.
I play Mount&Blade, and it is fun as hell.. i even played it more than almost all other Solo Player Games.. but yeah, it is in development, but it is now(in development) more fun than a lot of other games, which are released. No, Mount&Blade never fit into the term vaporware.
DnL is released, so it could also never be vaporware, it is maybe crapware.. but that is it. And imo it is crap.
Darkfall have shown us pics, ingame footage and so on, ok, it is a game in development, but is it vaporware? I dont think so.
(it was never sold, they devs never wanted fundings from the community, they never sold or announced preorder keys or whatsoever)
Looks not like vaporware.
Mourning/Realm of Tournment/Throne of Chaos is another case.. it was so often renamed, resold and so on, with a histroy of scamming, that we could call it vaporware. But that is it.
Dawn was another vaporware, it was never a real product, so this fit perfectly.(but is also history)
But was i surprised? No, not really this complete mmowtf article serie is just a serie of crap, and nothing else.
If this would be a real article, real journalismn, then the writer(no, i dont call him author) would research the complete Mourning/Realm of Tournment/Throne of Chaos story, and would write something about it.
Or maybe a deeper investigation in the complete mmocenter complex and about the future of "The Chronicle", which could be a real canditate for vaporware, but, however, just with a real investigation and some real backup for it. Before such a real investigation it is just a hoax to call products in development vaporware.
Mount and Blade isn't vaporware. Thats like calling gmail or froogle vaporware. Yah the dev keeps making the game better and adding more features... ... ...that bastard? If you're using that criteria for making a game vaporware then just about every mmo under the sun would be vaporware... and worse yet, most of them weren't honest they they were still in beta. Lastly, Mount & Blade is exactly what it says it is, you can download a demo version and play it before buying it... and the full version is exactly more of the same. I call shenanigans.
I agree with this, and I don't even particularly like Mount & Blade. The game was priced very low in the beginning, and gets slightly higher ($1.00 US?) every time a new release is issued. I think I bought it when it was $9.95, and it was completely playable even then. While the game didn't turn out to be as much my style as I thought it would be, I never felt as if I'd been cheated; as Shadus said, I had the opportunity to play a free trial before buying it, so it's my own fault if the game turned out to be something other than what I was looking for.
I guess my definition of "vaporware" differs considerably from Dan's, too, because I've always considered "vaporware" to be a program (game or otherwise) that had been conceptualized or under development at some point, but ultimately disintegrated before it was completed, whether due to financial problems, personnel issues, or some other reason. Games that are actually released in some form, whether that form is good, bad, or downright deplorable, cease to be vapor.
[quote]Generally, this term is not applied to MMOs developed by large companies and is basically attached to any game that tries to create undue hype without providing any real information or game play videos.[/quote]
Sorry, this is just a prejudgement of small, independent game developer, which are the real innovative companies in the game industry, which bring new ideas, new mechanics, new designs into the gaming industry. And one of your so called vaporware games is one of those innovative games, Mount&Blade, it has delivered the best medivial fighting system(with Mounts and Blades and Bows) up to date.
Now a lot of other companies(mostly the large one) will try to copy it, rehash it, and so on.. so only thing the most of them are capable to do.
Vaporware is a term especially for software from large comanies, what is Earth&Beyond, Ulima Online2, Ulima X(all EA), Imperator(Mythic), Mystica or Wish(Microsoft?), Dragon Empire(Codemaster), all those titles are vaporware, they all were in development, generated a lot of hype and were never released. All developed by large, established companies. This article is as expected, just full of crap.
Games like Dawn, ThroneofChaos should be better described as scamware, it fit just better for those products.
But well.. i know, the small companies do not advertise here, they dont pay your bills, just the large one do it. How cheap and predictable.
Or with other words, mmorpg.com is not longer independent? and just write good stuff about companies, which advertise here, i understand. This could declare a lot of things, which happens here, like the comeback of Throne of Chaos(and the advertising), like the hype about EvE(and the advertising) and so on.. but well, just speculation.
"Dan Fortier tries to re-define Vaporware and fails miserably" is a better title for this. No class whatsoever writing that article.
For one thing Darkfall doesn't belong in there, it's suspect that it was added imo. This is a live independent developer trying to make something good, they shouldn't have to deal with this BS. I'll be the first to say I'm frustrated waiting for the game, but sheesh... How about a little support for independent development? Maybe Adventurine should give you some money for adverts like Loud Ant and Thrones of Chaos did and then you may give them glowing reviews. I think we've had enough of this kind of mercenary "journalism"
Mount and Blade isn't an MMOG and it's a good honest game made by people with almost no resources and I think the last thing they needed is some snot nosed kid editorializing about them without knowing jack.
Earth and Beyond isn't vaporware no matter how you want to slice it DAN. The game was released and it was good, a professional effort of many honest developers that got cancelled due to commercialization issues. I'm sure they'll appreciate their years of efforts being discounted like that.
Apparently there are dozens of MMORPG.com readers who can write better articles, choose more interesting topics, define more clarified topics, and generally just promote the welfare of the MMO community at large much better than Dan Fortier. I really look forward to all of you submitting articles to MMORPG.com so the rest of us can have a lot of great stuff to read!
Well hello Stateofshock, still claiming to have heard of a small company that you just happen to work on yourself? (That is RedPlanetGames). Well now you are posting in an appropriate thread atleast.
It's these kinds of shoddy amateur-hour shooting from the hip "editorials" that keep mmorpg.com from being taken too serously. Dan Fortier does a very sloppy job here I'm afraid.
This story fails on so many levels it's not even funny, most of the posters here reflect my views, I too agree that DFO should not be mentioned in this story, same with M&B and a couple of others. What's really pathetic is that Fortier tears into some legitimate game developer's work with careless parasitic abandon like he knows which end is up himself, and somehow expecting the readers are going to relate to his views.
The thing is, gamers have respect for game developers even when they've failed. I can't say the same about game "journalists" with a chip on their shoulder.
Mount&Blade is neither vaporware nor an MMO so I find it appalling and disgusting that it is listed in that editorial as such. Mount&Blade is constantly under development and is supported continually by the (small) team of developers and artists working on it. Also, it is most certainly not an MMO; it is a single-player game. The statement that Mount&Blade is a vaporware MMO is just plain wrong, and I highly suggest that the writer educate himself about what he claims to already know- games.
This is a very popular website, and I'm sure that many people have read this editorial. It is very important for journalists to base their opinion on facts, not falsities. Please either take down this article, correct the error immediately, and/ or give that writer the sack.
Comments
Excellent article. People are hungry for good games. But they want quality not a burn.
So what?
Usually a definition of terms is a prelude to making a point or engaging others in a debate (or argument, depending upon maturity) but the author simply defines terms and then does absolutely nothing with the subject. WTF indeed. If you're going to bother writing this drivel, at least have a point to make. I presume you couldn't compose anything constructive, take the week off next time instead.
I'd get into a discussion of what I call shillware and how Sony Online Entertainment's MMO Star Wars Galaxies qualifies as such, and then take this point somewhere more meaningful, but this thread is pointless. Ciao.
SWG Veteran and Refugee, Intrepid server
NGE free as of Nov. 22, 2005
Now Playing: World of Warcrack
Forum Terrorist
Darkfall dont belong here nobody force you to follow this game.
Its far more original and fresh and new then WOW its 4 years in development first years its was totally different game they start again in 2003.
WoW was in devolopment for 5 years so STFU I say how dare you compare DFO with games like mourning DnL.
Aventurine never tricked anybody.
Its one of few games in devolopment who will not copy a crappy game like wow.
OP prolly fanboi wow and try all who are not like wow are vapoware man pathetic:(
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
On a more serious note, the guy is an idiot.
I don't think you can class released games as vapourware no matter what state they are released in. These games fall into the 'crap game' category instead.
What is clear is that he defined his categories according to his own self indulgent requirements. In order to begin this little flamefest.
(like I said, children should'nt play with matches)
The real definition of vaporware (and that's how I spell it), and we can skip the "categories", is a game that is "fabrication" or a lie. Commonly intended to defraud con or fool an invester or invester group (possibly forum monkeys).
It's a front put up with the intent to swindle. That's how I define it.
So let me repeat, because obviously you missed it.
Attaching names to a derogatory term, and re-defining that term in order to make his case, is cheezy journalism. I mean this guy should be working for the "enquirer" and not this site. (maybe that's what his ambition is). He's not interested in games, not promoting them or the genre. More likely self interest and gratification. (yeah I got all that from one artical).
Anyways he's gotten more attention than he deserves.
If anything it's allowed me to blow off some unrelated steam I have with games, and the industry and it's current sad state.
No more Trivial MMO's, let's get serious "again". Make a world, not a game
What I listen to
I think the first sentence here nicely sums up this entire column. It's a fairly bad example of tabloid journalism. It does, very much, come over as the author being very fond of the sound of his own voice and someone has given him a platform.
I have no axe to grind about the games he has chosen to slate. I don't play them, I don't work for them, I've had no interest in them. I simply don't like the tone of the articles this column produces.
there is a serious discrepency between Dan's definition of vaporware and the definitions of many of the posters here...
IMHO vaporware can be....
DnL & Mourning are not vaporware - since they exist and reached the public. They are just sh1tware
M&B is a game that can be purchased and played (should a non-mmo even be discussed with these others?) and is therefore not vaporware
Darkfall should not be considered with the sh1tware - since it has not released. It could be however be referred to as vaporware since there remains a possibility that lack of funding and experience of the developers could potentially mean the game never makes it. However, Aventurine claim to have adequate funding, and a remote server running for potential partners, and a very rabid and active forum.
The delays and slow progress of development could be adequately explained that the size and scope of the game has vastly increased in line with the increase in the developers' expectations from initial concept, along with the small team. This could mean it is just another game in development, to be put in the same catergory as AoC and WAR.
What I like about this article is that it holds an MMO accountable for hype. D&L was sold to a lot of people based exclusively on hype, yet what was delivered was nothing like what was promised. Sure, they have a server that is (kind of) running and the game does technically “exist”, but it is nothing like what it was hyped to be. Thus, it earns the title of vaporware.
Another game that is beginning to look like it fits in the vaporware category is Hero’s Journey. I am one of the biggest Simutronics fanboys out there. I played Dragonrealms for more years than I can remember and I truly hope Hero’s Journey makes it. However, so far there is nothing more than hype for HJ.~Synexis
Mount and Blade isn't vaporware. Thats like calling gmail or froogle vaporware. Yah the dev keeps making the game better and adding more features... ... ...that bastard?
If you're using that criteria for making a game vaporware then just about every mmo under the sun would be vaporware... and worse yet, most of them weren't honest they they were still in beta. Lastly, Mount & Blade is exactly what it says it is, you can download a demo version and play it before buying it... and the full version is exactly more of the same.
I call shenanigans.
Shadus
I play Mount&Blade, and it is fun as hell.. i even played it more than almost all other Solo Player Games.. but yeah, it is in development, but it is now(in development) more fun than a lot of other games, which are released. No, Mount&Blade never fit into the term vaporware.
DnL is released, so it could also never be vaporware, it is maybe crapware.. but that is it. And imo it is crap.
Darkfall have shown us pics, ingame footage and so on, ok, it is a game in development, but is it vaporware? I dont think so.
(it was never sold, they devs never wanted fundings from the community, they never sold or announced preorder keys or whatsoever)
Looks not like vaporware.
Mourning/Realm of Tournment/Throne of Chaos is another case.. it was so often renamed, resold and so on, with a histroy of scamming, that we could call it vaporware. But that is it.
Dawn was another vaporware, it was never a real product, so this fit perfectly.(but is also history)
But was i surprised? No, not really this complete mmowtf article serie is just a serie of crap, and nothing else.
If this would be a real article, real journalismn, then the writer(no, i dont call him author) would research the complete Mourning/Realm of Tournment/Throne of Chaos story, and would write something about it.
Or maybe a deeper investigation in the complete mmocenter complex and about the future of "The Chronicle", which could be a real canditate for vaporware, but, however, just with a real investigation and some real backup for it. Before such a real investigation it is just a hoax to call products in development vaporware.
I guess my definition of "vaporware" differs considerably from Dan's, too, because I've always considered "vaporware" to be a program (game or otherwise) that had been conceptualized or under development at some point, but ultimately disintegrated before it was completed, whether due to financial problems, personnel issues, or some other reason. Games that are actually released in some form, whether that form is good, bad, or downright deplorable, cease to be vapor.
Sorry, this is just a prejudgement of small, independent game developer, which are the real innovative companies in the game industry, which bring new ideas, new mechanics, new designs into the gaming industry. And one of your so called vaporware games is one of those innovative games, Mount&Blade, it has delivered the best medivial fighting system(with Mounts and Blades and Bows) up to date.
Now a lot of other companies(mostly the large one) will try to copy it, rehash it, and so on.. so only thing the most of them are capable to do.
Vaporware is a term especially for software from large comanies, what is Earth&Beyond, Ulima Online2, Ulima X(all EA), Imperator(Mythic), Mystica or Wish(Microsoft?), Dragon Empire(Codemaster), all those titles are vaporware, they all were in development, generated a lot of hype and were never released. All developed by large, established companies. This article is as expected, just full of crap.
Games like Dawn, ThroneofChaos should be better described as scamware, it fit just better for those products.
But well.. i know, the small companies do not advertise here, they dont pay your bills, just the large one do it. How cheap and predictable.
Or with other words, mmorpg.com is not longer independent? and just write good stuff about companies, which advertise here, i understand. This could declare a lot of things, which happens here, like the comeback of Throne of Chaos(and the advertising), like the hype about EvE(and the advertising) and so on.. but well, just speculation.
I guess their vapor generator is still working.
/sacrasm off
Mount&Blade is an awesome game that you can play right now made by a husband and wife team. Download it and play it right now.
By the way, it's not a MMO you retards.
Darkfall? wtf....Check this out:It was posted a few days ago and talks about the developer..
Here's their latest video, download it
Why put them in the heap with scammers like Mourning?
Sorry but your writer never checked his facts...he just wrote out his ass as usual.
For one thing Darkfall doesn't belong in there, it's suspect that it was added imo. This is a live independent developer trying to make something good, they shouldn't have to deal with this BS. I'll be the first to say I'm frustrated waiting for the game, but sheesh... How about a little support for independent development? Maybe Adventurine should give you some money for adverts like Loud Ant and Thrones of Chaos did and then you may give them glowing reviews. I think we've had enough of this kind of mercenary "journalism"
Mount and Blade isn't an MMOG and it's a good honest game made by people with almost no resources and I think the last thing they needed is some snot nosed kid editorializing about them without knowing jack.
Earth and Beyond isn't vaporware no matter how you want to slice it DAN. The game was released and it was good, a professional effort of many honest developers that got cancelled due to commercialization issues. I'm sure they'll appreciate their years of efforts being discounted like that.
FYI, there is some vapor in your a...
VAPOR WHERE???
Vapor this link u noob
New gameplay Video.
Eat your heart out kids.
Well now you are posting in an appropriate thread atleast.
It's these kinds of shoddy amateur-hour shooting from the hip "editorials" that keep mmorpg.com from being taken too serously. Dan Fortier does a very sloppy job here I'm afraid.
This story fails on so many levels it's not even funny, most of the posters here reflect my views, I too agree that DFO should not be mentioned in this story, same with M&B and a couple of others. What's really pathetic is that Fortier tears into some legitimate game developer's work with careless parasitic abandon like he knows which end is up himself, and somehow expecting the readers are going to relate to his views.
The thing is, gamers have respect for game developers even when they've failed. I can't say the same about game "journalists" with a chip on their shoulder.
This is a very popular website, and I'm sure that many people have read this editorial. It is very important for journalists to base their opinion on facts, not falsities. Please either take down this article, correct the error immediately, and/ or give that writer the sack.
I'd like to see Dan respond to this thread since it was spawned by his crap.
Shadus