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If you primarily like PvE and RP, this is a great game for you
0over0
Member UncommonPosts: 488
Obviously, anyone who's read much about LotRO will know it's not for the PvP junkies out there. It does have a potentially interesting "monster play" feature--but I think that's more for the PvEr who wants something different once in a while.
Unfortunately for the game, there's already quite a bit of competition in the fantasy-realm PvE/RP arena. Though, from what I've seen, naming standards are much stronger in LotRO and because of the story, it's much more amenable to actual RP, so RP might be LotRO's strongpoint.
Roleplay is not something that the company can provide, that's up to the community. So a lot depends on the subscribers to make the game their own. Also, amongst the various factions and subfactions of the whole MMO community, I think dedicated RPers are one of the smaller ones.
This game reminds me a lot of a fantasy version of City of Heroes for some reason. Maybe because there's no real PvP but there's a potential goldmine of story to use. And though orcs and elves and all that are commonplace now, they only became so because of the success of the LotR books. It does have decent crafting in theory (not great, but decent), which is nice to see for a change. If the game can achieve the success CoH did, it will be with us for quite some time.
Does this game have never-before-seen features/classes/races/abilities/gameplay/setting, etc? Not really. But that's not necessarily a reason not to play a game. If a game is not introducing great new ways to do things, then it should at least do the old things competently, which I think LotRO does.
If you're into PvE and/or RP, I think you should give this game some strong consideration--particularly if you're a fan of the LotR storyline. And if you're an RPer who's going into this game, you should try to keep RP alive on it--you don't have to force people to do it, but if you and others do it all the time, the environment is very conducive to RPing because of the strength of the story itself. Much more so in that regard than, say, EQ, EQII, WoW, or any of the other non-IP games out there.
In short, the game is not for everybody (is any MMO?). But if PvE or RP are your things, this game's a contender--don't let all the negativity persuade you otherwise.
Apply lemon juice and candle flame here to reveal secret message.
Comments
which is why i wont be playing it
i love RPing and always get in RPing guilds PVE is a fun to me i like to get to know the people im fighting with
PVP..is a big part of any MMO to me and is a must have piting you VS some one else from around the country or world that to me meaks MMOs great
loved everything LOTR ,and will pick up this game but i cant see a real MMO with out PVP so i most likly wont be playing it that long
CoX (CoH/CoV) have very special mechanics with RANDOM & INSTANCED missions.
Something no other mmo except AO doesnt have ...
This is a special thing in COX gameplay -
Does LOTR have same random instances mechanics ?
Second
Dont call MMO - RP MMO. And dont tell roleplay depends on players. If mmo dont have basic mechanics for roleplay , it just doesnt happen.
To be at least valiable for rp, mmo must have
1.Speach boubles
2.Lot of emotes (not stupid dances)
3.Roleplay servers
3.Chairs you can sit on
4.Places for roleplay
this is bare minimum - everything below this is a game that discourages roleplay
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
I think RP does depend on the players. If your playerbase doesn't want to RP, then it won't happen. Sure, the game can encourage or discourage it depending on how it's developed, but in the end it's up to us to decide whether or not it happens.
As for the list when it comes to LOTRO, speech bubbles are in the game, you can sit in chairs, and there's a nice selection of emotes. RP servers will be something I'm sure Turbine will look at as the game nears release. Places for roleplay? Last I checked the game has a virtual world you can travel in and interact with other players. If that doesn't fit the bill I don't know what does.
Edit: To the OP - Completely agree with what you said.
From what I have read about the MPvP it really reminds me of DAoC in a lot of ways.
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/middleearthonline/news.html?sid=6164769&mode=previews
I miss DAoC
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Rattrap. Dude. You cracked me up when you claimed that RP in MMOs depend on whether characters can sit on objects (chairs etc.) and have tons of emotes. This is BS since RP depends on nothing less than imagination. That's why the OP said that it depends on the community, which is true. You don't have to visually see a character sitting in a couch, to "believe" the character talking about it's (imaginative) great great grandfather on dragon hunts. Really.
BTW, you can enforce RP in server, if the servers are designed specifically for RP and they create & execute strict rules that prevent all out OOC behavior in those types of servers. Again, it may not enforce RP among the players, but it will leave players with very few options to act OOC.
Hehe
You know this is just a continuation of discusion about Roleplay in MMOS.
Most of leet kids and non roleplayers would in 99% times come with a same dumb suggestion " Roleplaying depends on the player , you dont need some special tools to roleplay "
I guess in their minds online Chess , or perhaps Counter Strike is also perfect place to roleplay ?
Perhaps you should refrain it to " It is possible to roleplay - without special tools "
What I stated above , are some good gestures from developers to show their good intent towards roleplay. Not in a least way a list of thing to provide real roleplay MMO.
You know this can go opposite way , here is a list of what a peticular MMO made by Turbine , based on famous roleplay game D&D made to exterminate roleplay.
1. No roleplay servers -> This is bare minimum , if you want for your MMO to even be called roleplay MMO
2. No naming policy of any kind -> You can be roleplaying your Grimzaxe Stormrage , when next to you comes an elf called Ipwny0n00b
3. No speach boubbles -> You are in tavern trying to roleplay. But not only that you have no idea who of 50 people in Tavern is talking to you.And the text in the box is scroling so fast because you are reading all what 50 other people are spaming.
4. Every little corner is separated by instance -> No communication
So you see in DDO , roleplaying is the thing only reserved for the though and stubborn. Because they literarly got out of their way to prevent it.
Example of MMO that promotes roleplay - EQ2
1. Roleplay servers
2. Enforced naming policy
3. Tons of emotes
4. Highly customizable characters
5. Roleplaying class skills
6. You can tag your character as RP (same as LFG)
7. You can own a house and decorate it
8. Great guild system
Example of imaginary MMO crafted for roleplayer and pve
1. Roleplay servers enforced by Game Masters
2. World events lead by Game Masters
3. In game roleplay mechanics -> Like alignment that changes
4. Posibility to run establishments -> Like shops, taverns...etc
5. Legal system
So you see, it takes a lot more than sittable chairs to make real Roleplay MMO , But atleast the chairs would show they have some good will ...
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
I'm not here to hijack this thread about whether LOTRO is a good MMO for RP or not. However I'd say some of your statements are good and give people motivation for role playing, like naming polices. It's also neat to see that you've changed some of your arguments for what's needed to RP in a game, from sitting in chairs to servers with much instancing make RP harder.
What deflates your arguments is that you use overly simplified examples, in an attempt to make your arguments seemingly more true; or maybe to make arguments like mine seem less. Bringing Counter Strike and (online) Chess as examples sets you back a great deal imo and has nothing to do whether or not RP is based on which technical solutions a game environment has in order to motivate RP.
The origin of MMOs are MUDs, imo. A MUD are a solely text-based role playing game. Its foundation originates from the Pen and Paper role playing games. Both requiring good role playing from its participants but none using any visual means to enhance the actions taken in-game.
Myself being a old school role player I can however understand your arguments, Rattrap, since many of todays MMOs players started out with such games as their first role playing experience. My initial post in this thread were a response to your, in my opinion, simplified view of what role playing need in order to exist within a specific gaming environment. RP is still an action carried out exclusively by the PCs and no NPCs. All of your arguments weren't wrong or bad, but those (along with the Counter Strike thing you had going on) were.
No flame intended. If you want do carry on the discussion you're welcome to PM me.
*edit* minor spell check.
All I am saying that a fact - that a online game has a CHAT BOX - doesnt make it roleplay enviroment.
Because I could than slap RP label on online chess or counterstrike.
MMORPG's should try to implement solutions that elevate and promote roleplaying ( if they want to be advertized as roleplay MMO's )
Even smallest things , like sittable chairs are ways to encourage and promote roleplay
"Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas
Hey Rattrap
MMORPG = Massive Multiplayer Online ROLE PLAYING game
Why companies actually make special servers for "Role Playing" in their "Role Playing Games" is just strange. What are the normal servers? non-Role Playing? Then they are not MMORPG's they are MMOG's. If anything they are all default "role playing" servers and special servers should be put aside for "NON-Role players". Any game built on the premise of "RPG" is suitable for RPing in. Yes, you can even RP in WoW. Its all based on the attitudes of the players. All the game does is provide a framework. Some are more elaborate then others.
But the reality of MMO's is this, they are mindless grind machines, thats it. All everyone (devs and players) can rap their brains around is the idea of leveling for bigger numbers and killing assorted boss mobs for "uber" loot when in fact these 2 things have very little to do with RPing other then provide a game mechanic and some props. MMO players are not RPGers they are gamers.
Anyway, hope that made you giggle.
LotR hasn't "failed" at anything...its an RPG based on the lore of Middle Earth. Either you play within that context / framework they are providing or you don't. LotR never claimed to allow you to have FFA or Evil factions. It always clearly stated the opportunity to play (RP) on the heroes side. Moster play was added as a compromise for the PvP. Its a pretty interesting solution IMHO. Nothing new or ground-breaking but interesting. Role Playing is just that, you assume a "role" and play it. In some environments the role is defined in others it is not.
Just because you are not allowed to kill NPC's and other players in the streets at your whim because you "want to be evil" doesn't mean its not a RPG, it simply means that "role" is not taken into account within the scope of that environment.
That quote about what games need for there to be roleplaying - chairs, speech bubbles, etc - has to be one of the dumbest things I have ever read. I have been in several games that dont have those things and have seen plenty of good roleplaying.
Roleplaying mainly depends on the players. The game and the environment have as much to do with attracting roleplayers as do the mechanics. Also, having some limits on d00d names and spamming chat will help a LOT, roleplayers hate those two things.
The main thing that encourages roleplaying is a good game that attracts roleplayers and doesnt attract 1337 d00dz. That one thing alone will go a hundred times farther than chat bubbles or chairs LOL. Throw in some RP servers with limitations on names and chat spamming, and you are a long way there, no matter what else is or isnt in the game.
Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC
While I'm eagerly awaiting the arrival of WAR (even though I'm not yet a season'd pvp'er), it's nice to have an option that is total opposite. By the winter, we'll have two games holding down both sides of the spectrum. Nothing can be better for the MMO genre than that. Those who have evolved to pvp only, probably will be bored out of their minds with this game.
In that aspect, JohnnyMotrin, I think Turbine has done a great stance choosing the game to be mostly PvE. In this way people who enjoy PvP won't be interested as much in the game as in other titles and therefore we just might get one, really, really, well working aspect (PvE) instead of two mish-mashed together. I'd say lets let LOTRO be a PvE/RP game and let's have Conan or Warhammer Online be the PvP/RP'ers choice for the next gen MMOs this year (not mentioning other titles such as Vanguard, Ryzom etc.
)
PvMP people PvMP, best of both worlds in this game, no PvP nerfs, persistant monster characters. Fighting for the keeps like old school DAoC.. now if the Best Buy will just get those pre order boxes in
I miss DAoC
I'm a Troll and happy to be so.
As for LOTRo, I'm looking forward to it. I enjoy both old school roleplaying and was heartily disappointed with DDO. I'm also a casual player and have neither the time or desire to try and improve some set of non-existent "mad 1337 PvP skillz". MMORPG's are my main social playground and I'm hoping to see this one develop a decent role-playing community.