Orc's were first made popular by Tolken in 1937 when he published The Hobbit. Before that they were simply parts of old european legends. The one that Tolkin actually took the word from was Beowulf.
So quit argueing about if Warcraft or Warhammer is correct. Because nether of them match Tolkin's Orcs. They are all differnent creatures for the respective worlds they belong in.
I play Wow, and plan on playing War as well. bonafidee is correct in saying they are simply improving on ideas used since MMORPG's came out.
GW made orcs green, and are the traditional orcs most games follow. Tusks, violent, big muscular, stupid; that pretty much sums games up. IMO Tolkien should not get credit for making average orcs what they are, GW should.
Orcs in the Warhammer universe come from Space Mushrooms.
That's why there are no female greenskins.
"Whosoever shed last blood By man shall his blood be shed For immunity of God make he the man Destroy all that which is evil So that which is good may flourish And I shall count thee among my favored sheep And you shall have the protection of all the angels in Heaven."
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
OMG its got a hotbar WOW-RIPOFF . OMG its got scrolling combat text WOW-RIPOFF. OMG its got quests WOW-RIPOFF. OMG its got "cartoony" graphics. OMG its got weapons WOW-RIPOFF!!!
Incase you couldnt tell, I am being sarcastic. MMORPG's were around for about 8 years before world of warcraft and will be around long after it dies.
I hate MMORPG virgins that pop their cherry on warcraft and think its gods gift to gamers. WoW basically just ripped off the best bits of previous MMORPG's and made them noob friendly. Warhammer online is the next step in evolution.
It happens with every genre of games. Can you really call Half-life 2 a rip off of the Doom franchise because they both use first person with guns? No, of course not, that would be rediculous. That is exactly what you are doing when you say Warhammer is ripping off Warcraft.
The problem with this WoW vs WAR topic, it will never end it seems. People dont realise they are two different worlds of their own game. It doesnt matter who did this first and who did that last. We can see that WoW itself being on the MMO out there first is recognised by many people and even to those that just started their first ever MMO. WoW appeals to them and people are enjoying and seeing this to be the great game out there. So we all know WoW itself is a big game and has a big market for people to enjoy.
So as time goes by , finally Warhammer being popular on its old type of games such as the classic Warhammer RTS , Dark Omen and even the Table Top game from Games workshop its huge and its big. People do recognise all of that and now finally they make it to an MMO which we all could see that there are similiarities to WoW because of some layouts such as UI and even characters seeing Orcs and Dwarfs . But it can't be helped how an orc is to look like an orc and they are called orcs , what else is Warhammer IP going to call them and how they look when they are just putting in what Games Workshop designed them to be. There is no other way , they can't change the colour of orcs or looks all because World of Warcraft made an orc and they may seem a bit similiar. This applies to dwarfs as well and so we see people that are shallow will just say , WoW clone because they dont bother to think and realise that WAR is coming into an MMO community to be recognised in " IT's " own right.
People should just see that the difference that WAR will make is that they will create an RVR experience for raids and people will be involved in either side of whomever fights whom to which the World and field of play will be moved by how people are involved to those that create success against others . People work together to fight against one another purely and their rewards are given for what they done.
WoW we can see that people get their Best Tier set no. # from mainly the PvE aspects of raids of facing NPC bosses for their best rewards.
In the end we just hope people would not just judge a game by the looks and say this is the same when each game has their goals which are set different. WAR is for a RvR experience and WoW is for PvE experience mainly to set their targets different. We will also notice that the classes in WAR will be different from how WoW plays so they are not clones but 2 seperate games altogether. I hope this clarifies enough for people to understand and somehow people would just end this rant this clone or that. Just enjoy the wait or if not interested then dont bother but for those that do anticipate the game like myself. I cant wait and hope to see what the end result would be like once WAR finally comes out.
All WoW did was take ideas from WAR and other games in the same category and polish it.
That's all it takes to make 8 million people retarded.
Can't say any better then this Bah now ya fished this shoe up again >:( You should'a let this thread sink into the deep!
*adds 500 LBS of weight to the thread so it will sink and never come back again*
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Actually there is a reason Warcraft is so much like Warhammer.
Supposedly, back in the day Blizzard was making a Warhammer-based RTS. It turned out that either Games Workshop didn't accept it or that they pulled out. I guess Blizzard didn't want to just give up so they changed a little bit from the Warhammer universe and thus Warcraft was born. So really it's not TOTALLY a ripoff, although it annoys the hell out of me when people say GW ripped off Blizz, an it always has even before the days of WoW.
As far as ripping off Tolkein, I would have to say Warhammer does not. Orcs in Tolkein's stories are very different from the Orcs of Warhammer and WoW. Bretonnians, Skaven, the Empire, Chaos, Tomb Kings, Dark Elves, and Vampire Counts are all almost completely unique to the Wathammer universe. Warhammer's Wood Elves differ from Tolkein's Wood Elves. The main similarities between Tolkein and Warhammer are found in the High Elves and even stronger in the Dwarfs. Besides, what fantasy game doesn't owe at least a part of it's roots to Tolkein. It's the same in sci-fi- most sci-fi novels, games, tv shows, etc. owe a lot to Starship Troopers (the old books, not the movies) or Star Wars.
I don't know if the part about Warcraft and Warhammer has been discussed yet, I'm too lazy to read all of the posts
i know war was around longer then wow, but you know what, if WAR ends up being a level grind, then a gear grind, just to reroll a class cause theres nothing left to do and there is no such thing as real pvp, then i will claim WAR ripped off WOW.
i doubt ill end up playing this game neways, from my understanding there won't be hydrids, it will be the same ol plain and simple paper rock scissors where you pick a class, and thats it and everyone else who picked a class has the same spells/skills as you. I could be wrong but if thats the case then this game already is crap in my book. But i wouldn't mind at all being proven wrong.
i know war was around longer then wow, but you know what, if WAR ends up being a level grind, then a gear grind, just to reroll a class cause theres nothing left to do and there is no such thing as real pvp, then i will claim WAR ripped off WOW. i doubt ill end up playing this game neways, from my understanding there won't be hydrids, it will be the same ol plain and simple paper rock scissors where you pick a class, and thats it and everyone else who picked a class has the same spells/skills as you. I could be wrong but if thats the case then this game already is crap in my book. But i wouldn't mind at all being proven wrong.
Whatever it turns out to be I'm almost certain it will be of much more quality and depth than what's to offer on the MMORPG dining table by today.
Perhaps not ALL games, but all games that are focused on PvP and somewhat item farming.
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
i know war was around longer then wow, but you know what, if WAR ends up being a level grind, then a gear grind, just to reroll a class cause theres nothing left to do and there is no such thing as real pvp, then i will claim WAR ripped off WOW. i doubt ill end up playing this game neways, from my understanding there won't be hydrids, it will be the same ol plain and simple paper rock scissors where you pick a class, and thats it and everyone else who picked a class has the same spells/skills as you. I could be wrong but if thats the case then this game already is crap in my book. But i wouldn't mind at all being proven wrong.
Whatever it turns out to be I'm almost certain it will be of much more quality and depth than what's to offer on the MMORPG dining table by today.
Perhaps not ALL games, but all games that are focused on PvP and somewhat item farming.
LMFAO, funny
Out of the PVP games WAR combat system looks to be the least innovative and the combat system is what makes a PVP game. Well that and a bug free game. Bugs in non-PVP oriented games dont tend to have as large an impact on the players enjoyablility as bugs in a PVP game do. When a player can use these bugs to ruin a gamers experience then the tolerance is very low.
This is the lessons that should be learned from M59, Shadowbane, UO, etc. It isnt that PVP games cant be successful its that the attempts at them have had too many bugs and those issues resulted in players leaving in droves. The tolerance level is very low. Back on track to me WAR looks to be the least "new" game. It is basically a lot of the same. It isnt a WoW clone much like WoW was not an EQ clone. WoW wasnt very innovative and neither is WAR which is why I am rooting for other games to succeed.
These two games big draw is that they have IP people love. WoW success is very much leveraged off Warcraft IP.
The tolerance level is very low. Back on track to me WAR looks to be the least "new" game. It is basically a lot of the same. It isnt a WoW clone much like WoW was not an EQ clone.
New or new if it succeeds in being a highly polished result and with the RvR it contains it WILL rock. Ofc nothing is "new" but quality gaming does never have to be new to be funny.
WoW wasnt very innovative and neither is WAR which is why I am rooting for other games to succeed. To me this will be a game which I can finally say is more polished and better than WoW, if everything goes as planned and nothing will become screwed up ofc. I have maaaany WoW addicts to convert to WAR when it's released ^^
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
i know war was around longer then wow, but you know what, if WAR ends up being a level grind, then a gear grind, just to reroll a class cause theres nothing left to do and there is no such thing as real pvp, then i will claim WAR ripped off WOW. i doubt ill end up playing this game neways, from my understanding there won't be hydrids, it will be the same ol plain and simple paper rock scissors where you pick a class, and thats it and everyone else who picked a class has the same spells/skills as you. I could be wrong but if thats the case then this game already is crap in my book. But i wouldn't mind at all being proven wrong.
Whatever it turns out to be I'm almost certain it will be of much more quality and depth than what's to offer on the MMORPG dining table by today.
Perhaps not ALL games, but all games that are focused on PvP and somewhat item farming.
LMFAO, funny
Out of the PVP games WAR combat system looks to be the least innovative and the combat system is what makes a PVP game.
How do you know? The gameplay footage is pretty lax not to mention that everything we have to go off of so far is pre-alpha.
i can imagine mythic putting together a great game, no matter the sugar coated story, look at what they did with DAOC, i never played it persoanlly, but i hear nothing but great things bout that game before all the xpacs.
for some reason though, i REALLY do not see mythic surpassing AOC's combat style, in which AOC is a pvp focused game that has recently confirmed in the last 2 months (after a year of development) that they will be tossing in some instance's for the pve raiders. not to mention, AoC WILL have hybrid structured class's. only other game i've heard of having hybrids and being completely pvp focused with a next generation combat system is Darkfall.
i just don't see Mythic surpassing either of these 2 games, even with a great lore such as WAR for there sugar coated topping. But i sure hope they this game doesn't get the angry Vanguard let down mobs.... or i feel kinda bad for you all=)
But then again, if i left a cruddy wannabe pvp game such as wow, for Vanguard to save my mmo interest, i'd give up and kick all your dogs
To tell the truth here's what I think of WAR as a game.
It's really a mix of DAoC because of RvR and with Mythic being the developer there should be other similarities and WoW because honestly, just look at the interface.
Now, when I say it's a mix of these two games that should not be taken as a bad thing. You take elements from both of them and set it in the Warhammer universe and it sounds as though you'll have an almost perfect game going on. And when I say this I am also not saying that the game isn't unique in its own ways.
I don't know if anyone posted this before, but the guys at Penny Arcade have a comic on this exact same topic. It's an older comic but it describes the situation perfectly.
OMG its got a hotbar WOW-RIPOFF . OMG its got scrolling combat text WOW-RIPOFF. OMG its got quests WOW-RIPOFF. OMG its got "cartoony" graphics. OMG its got weapons WOW-RIPOFF!!!
Incase you couldnt tell, I am being sarcastic. MMORPG's were around for about 8 years before world of warcraft and will be around long after it dies.
I hate MMORPG virgins that pop their cherry on warcraft and think its gods gift to gamers. WoW basically just ripped off the best bits of previous MMORPG's and made them noob friendly. Warhammer online is the next step in evolution.
It happens with every genre of games. Can you really call Half-life 2 a rip off of the Doom franchise because they both use first person with guns? No, of course not, that would be rediculous. That is exactly what you are doing when you say Warhammer is ripping off Warcraft.
I agree completely, but just to let u know it doesnt have cartoony graphics, dunno how anyone can say that, maybe it has a little less realistic then daoc catacombs graphics, but trust me when i say it doesnt have cartoony graphics, u wanna argue then fine, but I have played the alpha And I can say that this game is MUCH different then WoW !
OMG its got a hotbar WOW-RIPOFF . OMG its got scrolling combat text WOW-RIPOFF. OMG its got quests WOW-RIPOFF. OMG its got "cartoony" graphics. OMG its got weapons WOW-RIPOFF!!!
Incase you couldnt tell, I am being sarcastic. MMORPG's were around for about 8 years before world of warcraft and will be around long after it dies.
I hate MMORPG virgins that pop their cherry on warcraft and think its gods gift to gamers. WoW basically just ripped off the best bits of previous MMORPG's and made them noob friendly. Warhammer online is the next step in evolution.
It happens with every genre of games. Can you really call Half-life 2 a rip off of the Doom franchise because they both use first person with guns? No, of course not, that would be rediculous. That is exactly what you are doing when you say Warhammer is ripping off Warcraft.
I agree completely, but just to let u know it doesnt have cartoony graphics, dunno how anyone can say that, maybe it has a little less realistic then daoc catacombs graphics, but trust me when i say it doesnt have cartoony graphics, u wanna argue then fine, but I have played the alpha And I can say that this game is MUCH different then WoW !
Actually there is a reason Warcraft is so much like Warhammer.
Supposedly, back in the day Blizzard was making a Warhammer-based RTS. It turned out that either Games Workshop didn't accept it or that they pulled out. I guess Blizzard didn't want to just give up so they changed a little bit from the Warhammer universe and thus Warcraft was born. So really it's not TOTALLY a ripoff, although it annoys the hell out of me when people say GW ripped off Blizz, an it always has even before the days of WoW.
As far as ripping off Tolkein, I would have to say Warhammer does not. Orcs in Tolkein's stories are very different from the Orcs of Warhammer and WoW. Bretonnians, Skaven, the Empire, Chaos, Tomb Kings, Dark Elves, and Vampire Counts are all almost completely unique to the Wathammer universe. Warhammer's Wood Elves differ from Tolkein's Wood Elves. The main similarities between Tolkein and Warhammer are found in the High Elves and even stronger in the Dwarfs. Besides, what fantasy game doesn't owe at least a part of it's roots to Tolkein. It's the same in sci-fi- most sci-fi novels, games, tv shows, etc. owe a lot to Starship Troopers (the old books, not the movies) or Star Wars.
I don't know if the part about Warcraft and Warhammer has been discussed yet, I'm too lazy to read all of the posts
I don't know about Skaven being unique. IMO, they are from a Fafhrd and the gray mouser story writen by Fritz Lieber.
The idea of the Skaven race may have come from a series of novels by Fritz Leiber, a pulp fiction novelist. The Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser stories involve a race of intelligent rats who live under the cities of men, led by a council of thirteen rat sorcerers who attempt by covert means to take over a large cosmopolitan city that bears a passing resemblance to Altdorf.
Comments
Orcs in the Warhammer universe come from Space Mushrooms.
That's why there are no female greenskins.
"Whosoever shed last blood
By man shall his blood be shed
For immunity of God make he the man
Destroy all that which is evil
So that which is good may flourish
And I shall count thee among my favored sheep
And you shall have the protection of all the angels in Heaven."
damn them all to hell
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
True
Sorry wrong thread
So as time goes by , finally Warhammer being popular on its old type of games such as the classic Warhammer RTS , Dark Omen and even the Table Top game from Games workshop its huge and its big. People do recognise all of that and now finally they make it to an MMO which we all could see that there are similiarities to WoW because of some layouts such as UI and even characters seeing Orcs and Dwarfs . But it can't be helped how an orc is to look like an orc and they are called orcs , what else is Warhammer IP going to call them and how they look when they are just putting in what Games Workshop designed them to be. There is no other way , they can't change the colour of orcs or looks all because World of Warcraft made an orc and they may seem a bit similiar. This applies to dwarfs as well and so we see people that are shallow will just say , WoW clone because they dont bother to think and realise that WAR is coming into an MMO community to be recognised in " IT's " own right.
People should just see that the difference that WAR will make is that they will create an RVR experience for raids and people will be involved in either side of whomever fights whom to which the World and field of play will be moved by how people are involved to those that create success against others . People work together to fight against one another purely and their rewards are given for what they done.
WoW we can see that people get their Best Tier set no. # from mainly the PvE aspects of raids of facing NPC bosses for their best rewards.
In the end we just hope people would not just judge a game by the looks and say this is the same when each game has their goals which are set different. WAR is for a RvR experience and WoW is for PvE experience mainly to set their targets different. We will also notice that the classes in WAR will be different from how WoW plays so they are not clones but 2 seperate games altogether. I hope this clarifies enough for people to understand and somehow people would just end this rant this clone or that. Just enjoy the wait or if not interested then dont bother but for those that do anticipate the game like myself. I cant wait and hope to see what the end result would be like once WAR finally comes out.
*adds 500 LBS of weight to the thread so it will sink and never come back again*
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Supposedly, back in the day Blizzard was making a Warhammer-based RTS. It turned out that either Games Workshop didn't accept it or that they pulled out. I guess Blizzard didn't want to just give up so they changed a little bit from the Warhammer universe and thus Warcraft was born. So really it's not TOTALLY a ripoff, although it annoys the hell out of me when people say GW ripped off Blizz, an it always has even before the days of WoW.
As far as ripping off Tolkein, I would have to say Warhammer does not. Orcs in Tolkein's stories are very different from the Orcs of Warhammer and WoW. Bretonnians, Skaven, the Empire, Chaos, Tomb Kings, Dark Elves, and Vampire Counts are all almost completely unique to the Wathammer universe. Warhammer's Wood Elves differ from Tolkein's Wood Elves. The main similarities between Tolkein and Warhammer are found in the High Elves and even stronger in the Dwarfs. Besides, what fantasy game doesn't owe at least a part of it's roots to Tolkein. It's the same in sci-fi- most sci-fi novels, games, tv shows, etc. owe a lot to Starship Troopers (the old books, not the movies) or Star Wars.
I don't know if the part about Warcraft and Warhammer has been discussed yet, I'm too lazy to read all of the posts
i know war was around longer then wow, but you know what, if WAR ends up being a level grind, then a gear grind, just to reroll a class cause theres nothing left to do and there is no such thing as real pvp, then i will claim WAR ripped off WOW.
i doubt ill end up playing this game neways, from my understanding there won't be hydrids, it will be the same ol plain and simple paper rock scissors where you pick a class, and thats it and everyone else who picked a class has the same spells/skills as you. I could be wrong but if thats the case then this game already is crap in my book. But i wouldn't mind at all being proven wrong.
Perhaps not ALL games, but all games that are focused on PvP and somewhat item farming.
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Perhaps not ALL games, but all games that are focused on PvP and somewhat item farming.
LMFAO, funny
Out of the PVP games WAR combat system looks to be the least innovative and the combat system is what makes a PVP game. Well that and a bug free game. Bugs in non-PVP oriented games dont tend to have as large an impact on the players enjoyablility as bugs in a PVP game do. When a player can use these bugs to ruin a gamers experience then the tolerance is very low.
This is the lessons that should be learned from M59, Shadowbane, UO, etc. It isnt that PVP games cant be successful its that the attempts at them have had too many bugs and those issues resulted in players leaving in droves. The tolerance level is very low. Back on track to me WAR looks to be the least "new" game. It is basically a lot of the same. It isnt a WoW clone much like WoW was not an EQ clone. WoW wasnt very innovative and neither is WAR which is why I am rooting for other games to succeed.
These two games big draw is that they have IP people love. WoW success is very much leveraged off Warcraft IP.
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Perhaps not ALL games, but all games that are focused on PvP and somewhat item farming.
LMFAO, funny
Out of the PVP games WAR combat system looks to be the least innovative and the combat system is what makes a PVP game.
How do you know? The gameplay footage is pretty lax not to mention that everything we have to go off of so far is pre-alpha.
i can imagine mythic putting together a great game, no matter the sugar coated story, look at what they did with DAOC, i never played it persoanlly, but i hear nothing but great things bout that game before all the xpacs.
for some reason though, i REALLY do not see mythic surpassing AOC's combat style, in which AOC is a pvp focused game that has recently confirmed in the last 2 months (after a year of development) that they will be tossing in some instance's for the pve raiders. not to mention, AoC WILL have hybrid structured class's. only other game i've heard of having hybrids and being completely pvp focused with a next generation combat system is Darkfall.
i just don't see Mythic surpassing either of these 2 games, even with a great lore such as WAR for there sugar coated topping. But i sure hope they this game doesn't get the angry Vanguard let down mobs.... or i feel kinda bad for you all=)
But then again, if i left a cruddy wannabe pvp game such as wow, for Vanguard to save my mmo interest, i'd give up and kick all your dogs
<--------
It's really a mix of DAoC because of RvR and with Mythic being the developer there should be other similarities and WoW because honestly, just look at the interface.
Now, when I say it's a mix of these two games that should not be taken as a bad thing. You take elements from both of them and set it in the Warhammer universe and it sounds as though you'll have an almost perfect game going on. And when I say this I am also not saying that the game isn't unique in its own ways.
Here is the link:
www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2006/04/10
Cheerz!
I am His will incarnate.
atleast one smart person
I don't know about Skaven being unique. IMO, they are from a Fafhrd and the gray mouser story writen by Fritz Lieber.
Here is a bit from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skaven
Inspirations
The idea of the Skaven race may have come from a series of novels by Fritz Leiber, a pulp fiction novelist. The Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser stories involve a race of intelligent rats who live under the cities of men, led by a council of thirteen rat sorcerers who attempt by covert means to take over a large cosmopolitan city that bears a passing resemblance to Altdorf.