Crafting was definatly changed bigtime. They even said so in the last patch. I logged in and suddenly I could not make things that I could make the day before. They stated quit clearly they wanted to slow the progress of crafters.
Secondly "adventuring" exp has definatly been slowed as well. It was a horrible grind to begin with. Between lvls 8 and 10 I think i killed at least 500-600 mobs to get those lvls. It was not fun to say the least. There were notes in patch about decrease in exp but its not like you can tell in game because there are not numbers involved in expp just the gold bar that moves about a milimeter if at all after killing a mob.
I said this before but if there were actual numbers involved at least you could make some sort of calculations as to what you have to kill and how many so some kind of planning could go into it. Without numbers going up it feels like you do not accomplish anything at all. I was in a group the other night and there was 4 of us all lvl 10 and we were killing lvl 12-15 mobs and I thought my exp bar was broken thats how slow it was moving. It was laughable I finaly gave up after the 200th mob and I didnt see my bar move. Frankly its easier to get exp by your self. So much for the group based aspect of the game. Besides most of the "dungeons" that are group based are mostly totaly bugged and or broken. When you try to zone in half the party gets teleported to one spot and half to another and it is basicly a waste of time. We tryed to do riftseekers and it was laughable. It kept zoning us out side then back in half the party at a time. It was impossible and not to mention the mobs respawn so fast you cant get the party back together with all leaving and trying again. We gave up and moved on.
Crafting was definatly changed bigtime. They even said so in the last patch. I logged in and suddenly I could not make things that I could make the day before. They stated quit clearly they wanted to slow the progress of crafters.
Secondly "adventuring" exp has definatly been slowed as well. It was a horrible grind to begin with. Between lvls 8 and 10 I think i killed at least 500-600 mobs to get those lvls. It was not fun to say the least. There were notes in patch about decrease in exp but its not like you can tell in game because there are not numbers involved in expp just the gold bar that moves about a milimeter if at all after killing a mob.
I said this before but if there were actual numbers involved at least you could make some sort of calculations as to what you have to kill and how many so some kind of planning could go into it. Without numbers going up it feels like you do not accomplish anything at all. I was in a group the other night and there was 4 of us all lvl 10 and we were killing lvl 12-15 mobs and I thought my exp bar was broken thats how slow it was moving. It was laughable I finaly gave up after the 200th mob and I didnt see my bar move. Frankly its easier to get exp by your self. So much for the group based aspect of the game. Besides most of the "dungeons" that are group based are mostly totaly bugged and or broken. When you try to zone in half the party gets teleported to one spot and half to another and it is basicly a waste of time. We tryed to do riftseekers and it was laughable. It kept zoning us out side then back in half the party at a time. It was impossible and not to mention the mobs respawn so fast you cant get the party back together with all leaving and trying again. We gave up and moved on.
This game is a grind in every way immaginable.
Cal
killing mobs alone for lvls have always been slow, i went from 8 to 10 last night pretty quick considering i do other things as well just by doing questing.
Crafting was definatly changed bigtime. They even said so in the last patch. I logged in and suddenly I could not make things that I could make the day before. They stated quit clearly they wanted to slow the progress of crafters.
Crafting XP got bumped back up last night. They also fixed etched knives and improved saws, so arificers are back in business.
I hear the XP rates were lowered, first 30% then another 25%. I can not validate this, but it feel about right. I am aware there are people who feel happy about it, and each to his. I felt the former XP rate should have been raised, not lowered. Vanguard has, due to educated calculations 70,000 - 80,000 players at the moment. Brad McQuaid one said they need at least 250,000 to make profit. Though it is just a guess, I think a vast majority, once they find out about the slow progress will not keep playing. I know that is only what my insight tells me, but I firmly believe this is so. It is a preferrence, and as that not really debatable, as all kinds of taste. But I want to see progress of my character in an appropriate time, and the current changes just are the last obstacle in a series of maluses this game has. I do not want another EQ1 or Lineage II endless grind. I really don't desire a WOW-ish fast levelling, really not. But this is not what any longer feels as a decend balance between time and progress. I am sorry to say, for VG is a really good game in many aspects. But if this is the final say I will soon quit this game. I want to do quests and explore and maybe try one or two alts and not focus on powergriding to keep a certain feeling of progress. I really dont want to be the uber player, but I want to feel the growth in strength, and that means a certain time-frame must have a certain pay off. I just inform you of this my standing. I am sorry VG evolves this much into a time consuming game now, but I am not willing to focus my entire spare time on one thing alone to keep up with my personal feeling of a progress. I hope this is not the final word or a real casual server is started ASAP. VG has many good aspects I havent seen in other games, but the price of time VG now demands to pay is beyond what I regard as a reasonable exchange.
PS: I do not like WOW. It is TOO fast and easy. That is not what I desire, but VG now, especially calculating the levelling slowness of the higher levels, is too slow for me now. I had this in the old days, where it was ok, but then was then and now is now. This is a personal expression, and there is no need to "convince" me.
PPS: If I decide to go, my stuff goes to my guildies, so you do not have to ask me if you can have my stuff, should I go.
Your posts are always polite and so I will put this to you pragmatically. You are EXACTLY the kind of MMO player I do not condone. Instead of finding something else to play you'll hang around complaining until the devs finally cave and mess the game up. This is exactly what happened to SWG. It is a very selfish attitude especially considering how many games there are out there that appeal to your style of play.
I personally think you should leave Vanguard. It was NEVER advertised as a casual game and they are not just "words" as you put it. It's like walking into a strip joint and acting surprised because there are naked girls dancing around. It was always advertised as a game that would require a significant investment of time. You, for whatever reason, cannot invest that time and so you must find another game to play that is more suited to your particular time constraints.
I'm not trying to be nasty and I do empathize but I dont see why every single MMO that comes out has to be watered down to suit the casual gamer. Some of us do have the time to invest, and this is about the only game that caters to us. It was never targeted at the WoW/EQ2 market. It was targeted at a niche market. It was after a very specific demographic. Not everyone exists therein!
Sharky...Thank you very much for posting this. I wish that all the current Vanguard players were as forthcoming and the developers of Vanguard as well. I had been interested in this game for a while and was looking for reasons to test it, however especially since retail I've seen more and more hints that this game is not for me and others like me.
I'll stay in World of Warcraft and enjoy my time there. This game is NOT in fact for people who enjoy WoW even if they might be looking for something new. All they'll find is frustration. I'm pretty much done being frustrated with a game since I left Everquest.
Please...keep the word going. This game is NOT for WoW players and never will be.
To all you playing Vanguard I wish you the best. Hope that your gameplay experience is fulfilling. It's another choice after all and that's always good.
Never be afraid of choices. More choices are always good things.
They do not want a lot of people hitting end game and screaming for more end game content when they already have so much to do to get this game to where it should have been when it launched. They don't even have caravans and fellowship in. There are classes that aren't in. There are places that are unpopulated. (So I read, anyway). So they're gonna put the breaks on folks for sure.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I hear the XP rates were lowered, first 30% then another 25%. I can not validate this, but it feel about right. I am aware there are people who feel happy about it, and each to his. I felt the former XP rate should have been raised, not lowered. Vanguard has, due to educated calculations 70,000 - 80,000 players at the moment. Brad McQuaid one said they need at least 250,000 to make profit. Though it is just a guess, I think a vast majority, once they find out about the slow progress will not keep playing. I know that is only what my insight tells me, but I firmly believe this is so. It is a preferrence, and as that not really debatable, as all kinds of taste. But I want to see progress of my character in an appropriate time, and the current changes just are the last obstacle in a series of maluses this game has. I do not want another EQ1 or Lineage II endless grind. I really don't desire a WOW-ish fast levelling, really not. But this is not what any longer feels as a decend balance between time and progress. I am sorry to say, for VG is a really good game in many aspects. But if this is the final say I will soon quit this game. I want to do quests and explore and maybe try one or two alts and not focus on powergriding to keep a certain feeling of progress. I really dont want to be the uber player, but I want to feel the growth in strength, and that means a certain time-frame must have a certain pay off. I just inform you of this my standing. I am sorry VG evolves this much into a time consuming game now, but I am not willing to focus my entire spare time on one thing alone to keep up with my personal feeling of a progress. I hope this is not the final word or a real casual server is started ASAP. VG has many good aspects I havent seen in other games, but the price of time VG now demands to pay is beyond what I regard as a reasonable exchange.
PS: I do not like WOW. It is TOO fast and easy. That is not what I desire, but VG now, especially calculating the levelling slowness of the higher levels, is too slow for me now. I had this in the old days, where it was ok, but then was then and now is now. This is a personal expression, and there is no need to "convince" me.
PPS: If I decide to go, my stuff goes to my guildies, so you do not have to ask me if you can have my stuff, should I go.
Your posts are always polite and so I will put this to you pragmatically. You are EXACTLY the kind of MMO player I do not condone. Instead of finding something else to play you'll hang around complaining until the devs finally cave and mess the game up. This is exactly what happened to SWG. It is a very selfish attitude especially considering how many games there are out there that appeal to your style of play.
I personally think you should leave Vanguard. It was NEVER advertised as a casual game and they are not just "words" as you put it. It's like walking into a strip joint and acting surprised because there are naked girls dancing around. It was always advertised as a game that would require a significant investment of time. You, for whatever reason, cannot invest that time and so you must find another game to play that is more suited to your particular time constraints.
I'm not trying to be nasty and I do empathize but I dont see why every single MMO that comes out has to be watered down to suit the casual gamer. Some of us do have the time to invest, and this is about the only game that caters to us. It was never targeted at the WoW/EQ2 market. It was targeted at a niche market. It was after a very specific demographic. Not everyone exists therein!
Sharky...Thank you very much for posting this. I wish that all the current Vanguard players were as forthcoming and the developers of Vanguard as well. I had been interested in this game for a while and was looking for reasons to test it, however especially since retail I've seen more and more hints that this game is not for me and others like me.
I'll stay in World of Warcraft and enjoy my time there. This game is NOT in fact for people who enjoy WoW even if they might be looking for something new. All they'll find is frustration. I'm pretty much done being frustrated with a game since I left Everquest.
Please...keep the word going. This game is NOT for WoW players and never will be.
To all you playing Vanguard I wish you the best. Hope that your gameplay experience is fulfilling. It's another choice after all and that's always good.
Amen, I am so glad you can be objective and honest about this. More players of other games should do the same. Not every game is the same as the one you are coming from.
The entire OPs post is 100% hearsay and I'm surprised so many here took that bait. XP seems the same it has always been since day 1 of preorder. XP for quests is over-the-top. And up til now (lvl 12 shaman), every quest has been soloable. You only need to complete a quest or two to see this for yourself. But if you prefer to rely on hearsay, that's your loss, people.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Parrot, you think I should rely on hearsay from strangers, instead of my own actual experiences? Umm, no thanks. I believe my eyes a helluva lot more than I believe some stranger on the internets...
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Yet another, if it isn't the WoW model it's failed thread - I'm quite bored of them, to be honest, but here's my answer anyway.
Britney Spears sells alot of records, it's popular - it doesn't however mean everyone only wants to buy Britney Spears, or that the only type of music made should be Britney Spears, or any type of music that isn't Britney Spears is a failure for not having the same sell through. There are markets for other types and genre's of music - thankfully, finally there is a new MMO catering to those that don't want to have almost every ability on their character, and have explored 95% of the world inside a couple of weeks. Sitting at the raid/PvP/faction grind point gaining nothing new, and very limited new content, just making a long incremental series of marginal upgrades to equipment sounds like a far bigger grind to me than taking the time levelling because there's actually stuff to do during it rather than harvest 20 boar noses then snouts then feet then ears then tails etc.
The reason VG takes longer to level is because there's enough content that at the pace of current levelling you can still only see the smallest fraction of it, and it feels like a proper world with actual other people in it, not these little instanced boxes for those who can't play nice with the other inhabitants.
Some worlds whisk you through because there's no depth to explore if you take your time. Each to their own.
I'm about a casual as they get, and I don't care a bit about the exerpience change. You know why? Because I'm a casual gamer and this game has got me fully entertained, so much so that I could give a rip about my level.
Crafting was definatly changed bigtime. They even said so in the last patch. I logged in and suddenly I could not make things that I could make the day before. They stated quit clearly they wanted to slow the progress of crafters.
Secondly "adventuring" exp has definatly been slowed as well. It was a horrible grind to begin with. Between lvls 8 and 10 I think i killed at least 500-600 mobs to get those lvls. It was not fun to say the least. There were notes in patch about decrease in exp but its not like you can tell in game because there are not numbers involved in expp just the gold bar that moves about a milimeter if at all after killing a mob.
I said this before but if there were actual numbers involved at least you could make some sort of calculations as to what you have to kill and how many so some kind of planning could go into it. Without numbers going up it feels like you do not accomplish anything at all. I was in a group the other night and there was 4 of us all lvl 10 and we were killing lvl 12-15 mobs and I thought my exp bar was broken thats how slow it was moving. It was laughable I finaly gave up after the 200th mob and I didnt see my bar move. Frankly its easier to get exp by your self. So much for the group based aspect of the game. Besides most of the "dungeons" that are group based are mostly totaly bugged and or broken. When you try to zone in half the party gets teleported to one spot and half to another and it is basicly a waste of time. We tryed to do riftseekers and it was laughable. It kept zoning us out side then back in half the party at a time. It was impossible and not to mention the mobs respawn so fast you cant get the party back together with all leaving and trying again. We gave up and moved on.
This game is a grind in every way immaginable.
Cal
You made the game a grind, do the quests. . .if would be different if you and your group ran out of quests then you could say there is a big problem, but turning in two quests and grinding 200 mobs along the way is not the same thing as doing ten quests and grinding 100 mobs along the way, the higher mob count without quests can't compare. . .
I have been playing the game for a few days and the XP reduction was reduced I want to say on the 31st of January. Obviously very close to launch so it didnt affect that many people, mostly just the pre-order folks.
I am a very casual player, I get maybe 2 hours in a couple nights a week but fall into the type of person that doesnt actually want to reach endgame. I just play when I can, and am there to relax and have fun. I dont even need an XP bar, but of course not everyone is like that.
Several people that I know that fall into the hardcore category (if you must group up players) liked the XP reduction as they felt they were leveling way too fast and were worried about max level approaching in a matter of a couple months.
I personally dont see it hurting the "average" casual player, you cant generalize people really, but from my experiences casual players usually expect it to take a while for them to get really leveled up.
There are a lot of WoW comparisons that I have seen with VG. I played WoW since Closed Beta up until a few months ago. I personally dont see how these two games are even comparable as they are night and day. If you want a comparison with it think Ultima Online, but very updated of course. But I guess that is because WoW is king of the hill still (and will remain so for who knows how long) but I really dont see how you can compare the two, the differences are so vast.
But, with that being said I did make a transition from WoW to VG (played NWN2 in-between) and think both are great games. I just basically got played out of WoW and wanted something different, for me this was a good choice. To be honest the only reason I got it was for something to pass the time until AoC came out, but now I dont even think of that game anymore...will see how I feel in October or whenever its scheduled for now.
Secondly "adventuring" exp has definatly been slowed as well. It was a horrible grind to begin with. Between lvls 8 and 10 I think i killed at least 500-600 mobs to get those lvls.
Wow, were you killing mobs 4 levels lower?
I completed about 10 quests and killed maybe 40 - 50 mobs and leveled from 8 - 10. On multiple characters in multiple starting zones. In about two hours tops.
What exactly is casual gameplay in some people's minds? Does that mean you only solo because you're too afraid to ask for a group? Not trying to insult anyone here but I can just go stand outside any dungeon from level 9-16 and within 10-15min be invited to a group to head down with. My response to the standard 'we should be able to solo anything arguement' is this is a MMORPG, the other players in the game are not just around to be your tour/quest guides to enhance your soloing agenda. Try interacting with them more than once in a blue moon and you might be surprised that you like interacting with people.
Crafting in this game is not 'casual' as in other games, don't expect to spend 10-15min crafting and expect to create some really good stuff. The crafters wanted it that way and I'm one of them, the game truly has 3 spheres of which you can spend countless hours on and not find an end in sight.
If you do not have the spare time to play these games, seriously pick up Oblivion it's an excellent game and you can save your progress as you go and not have to worry about anything else. Then we you have time, you pick up where you left off.
riho great post. truely mmos ARE about playing with other people. But one thing to remember, some people enjoy "people-watching". in other words they like to be around others but not necessarily interact with them all the time. some games force this upon on u and others not so much. however, when u need help, not taking advantage of the fact that there are other cognitive thinkers around is silly....anyways truely oblivion is a great game^^ (cept the stealth classes are freaking impossible to play compared to a mage in plate LOL)
When I say, or think "casual" with gaming, it doesnt need to even be an MMO, or even online....casual I just think of not dedicating a large chunk of your free(and sometimes not so free) time to it. Casual is you play when you can, but spend more of your free time doing other things.
Playing casual and grouping does tend to go together though...at least it can. Thinking of casual as I do, you frequently cannot sit in front of the computer for hours on end which can make grouping in some games difficult because it is no fun to tell your party that you have to go when you are halfway into a 4 hour dungeon.
Personally I feel it's just a hair low right now. I look at it like, "what's the rush?" Enjoy the content and such without worrying about your xp bar. There's already people at 30, and quite a few in the upper 20's - and the game, including the pre-release, has only been out for one week, and that's if you count thursday last week (which a lot of people weren't able to get in).
I'm curious when VG was advertised as a casual players game? I always thought it was for the "core" people. Isn't that something Brad said at one point? I'd be surprised if the guys that like corpse runs, no instances and long travel times don't come out and praise this for making the game even more challenging... for them anyway. Personally I see all these as just sinks, not challenges.
This is true,
he on many occations stated this was bascially an EQ clone done right lol. Going back to the core of mmorpgs etc etc etc. In other words he was making it for the old school pve gamers. however with all the new games alot of those people have changed thier mind as far as what they consider fun. This game didn´t stand much of a chance when it started then getting purchased by SOE put the final nail in the coffin. Releasing early I don´t think effects it nearly as much as the bad choices made from the get go.
Originally posted by Celestian I'd be surprised if the guys that like corpse runs, no instances and long travel times don't come out and praise this for making the game even more challenging... for them anyway. Personally I see all these as just sinks, not challenges.
All three of those are challenges, no sinks, and I prefer it that way. -Corpse runs add more risk to death, and challenge to recovering your stuff. It's a contrast to some other MMORPGs where death has about as much sting as dying in a round of Counterstrike. -I have always hated instances - This is a MMORPG. I like encoutering people in dungeons or out in the open. If I wanted all the content spoon fed to me in personal instances I would play Guild Wars. -I love huge worlds where travel is organic. The world feels disjointed and unconnected when you can go anywhere in minutes by teleporting from one town to another.
As for the EXP rate, I don't mind leveling being slow if there is enough content to go with the pace.
Well said. Besides, if corpse runs are that much of a time sink to you, then you are dying too much. As for long travel times, the caravan system was put in place so you could log in where your friends are. What I wouldnt want to see is a bunch of insta-porters. It just makes the game feel small when devs do that. As for the XP nerf, I expect the devs are still tweaking to ensure the right leveling curve. It still may change again. For me, I am comfortable where it is at. Perhaps it will cause people to spend more time playing in a given zone, versus leveling at a speed in which they miss alot of things in a zone.
How often I die or not die isn't the point. It's the fact that it takes time, not a challenge, to get back to where I was. That is a sink.
Making it take a long time to travel to point A to point B is a timesink. Sure I might like the slow path the first time, not the 50th.
As I said I figured you guys claiming this would make the game challenging would praise these things.
A real challenge is smart mob UI or PVP/player combat, not running back to your corpse or spending 20 minutes getting to your group or spending 2-3 days trying to camp a mob for a quest or item because there are no instances and everyone else needs the same thing.
I am sorry but how long you spent wacking your same sword on the same type of mob does not equal challenge but hey, least you guys got a game to "challenge you" now.
Quote: Aeronis "As for the EXP rate, I don't mind leveling being slow if there is enough content to go with the pace."
Well said, I don't mind if it takes me 1 month to get from level 40 to 41 as long as there is content to entertain me the whole time. If after going to a new area and completing the handfull of quests there and "raiding" the local dungeon a few times I'm only 1% of the way then there had better be a bunch more quests that I can continue to complete. If not and the only way for me to level is to kill mob after mob after mob then it becomes a grind. So far i've not seen that yet in the game (my highest level is 15 so its not exactly "professional" for lack of a better word), it seems like I'm always trying to complete something and the levels just sort of happen.
Maybe I'm strange but I don't get a sense of accomplishment from levelling, it's a means to an end. Something that happens that helps me to complete my adventures. I get the feeling of accomplishment from completing quests, exploring new areas, killing named creatures, etc. As long as I'm constantly feeling accomplished then it's not a grind (at least for me). Even if it takes a month to level.
Quote: Celestian "spending 2-3 days trying to camp a mob for a quest or item because there are no instances and everyone else needs the same thing"
That's not how quest items or quests for named mobs work. If you get a quest to kill a named mob then, when you enter the area where he is, with the quest in your journal, he will spawn for you and be tagged for you so someone else can't kill him. For named mobs they aren't even supposed to be able to attack him. Perfect low level example is the name spirit king in the lesser giant starting area. You should never have to spend any time camping for a mob to finish a quest. And if you've come across a quest to kill a named mob and it didn't spawn for you correctly or get tagged for you correctly please /bug it.
Camping for named mobs that aren't for a quest... well that's a different storyy.
Comments
Crafting was definatly changed bigtime. They even said so in the last patch. I logged in and suddenly I could not make things that I could make the day before. They stated quit clearly they wanted to slow the progress of crafters.
Secondly "adventuring" exp has definatly been slowed as well. It was a horrible grind to begin with. Between lvls 8 and 10 I think i killed at least 500-600 mobs to get those lvls. It was not fun to say the least. There were notes in patch about decrease in exp but its not like you can tell in game because there are not numbers involved in expp just the gold bar that moves about a milimeter if at all after killing a mob.
I said this before but if there were actual numbers involved at least you could make some sort of calculations as to what you have to kill and how many so some kind of planning could go into it. Without numbers going up it feels like you do not accomplish anything at all. I was in a group the other night and there was 4 of us all lvl 10 and we were killing lvl 12-15 mobs and I thought my exp bar was broken thats how slow it was moving. It was laughable I finaly gave up after the 200th mob and I didnt see my bar move. Frankly its easier to get exp by your self. So much for the group based aspect of the game. Besides most of the "dungeons" that are group based are mostly totaly bugged and or broken. When you try to zone in half the party gets teleported to one spot and half to another and it is basicly a waste of time. We tryed to do riftseekers and it was laughable. It kept zoning us out side then back in half the party at a time. It was impossible and not to mention the mobs respawn so fast you cant get the party back together with all leaving and trying again. We gave up and moved on.
This game is a grind in every way immaginable.
Cal
killing mobs alone for lvls have always been slow, i went from 8 to 10 last night pretty quick considering i do other things as well just by doing questing.
Crafting XP got bumped back up last night. They also fixed etched knives and improved saws, so arificers are back in business.
Your posts are always polite and so I will put this to you pragmatically. You are EXACTLY the kind of MMO player I do not condone. Instead of finding something else to play you'll hang around complaining until the devs finally cave and mess the game up. This is exactly what happened to SWG. It is a very selfish attitude especially considering how many games there are out there that appeal to your style of play.
I personally think you should leave Vanguard. It was NEVER advertised as a casual game and they are not just "words" as you put it. It's like walking into a strip joint and acting surprised because there are naked girls dancing around. It was always advertised as a game that would require a significant investment of time. You, for whatever reason, cannot invest that time and so you must find another game to play that is more suited to your particular time constraints.
I'm not trying to be nasty and I do empathize but I dont see why every single MMO that comes out has to be watered down to suit the casual gamer. Some of us do have the time to invest, and this is about the only game that caters to us. It was never targeted at the WoW/EQ2 market. It was targeted at a niche market. It was after a very specific demographic. Not everyone exists therein!
Sharky...Thank you very much for posting this. I wish that all the current Vanguard players were as forthcoming and the developers of Vanguard as well. I had been interested in this game for a while and was looking for reasons to test it, however especially since retail I've seen more and more hints that this game is not for me and others like me.
I'll stay in World of Warcraft and enjoy my time there. This game is NOT in fact for people who enjoy WoW even if they might be looking for something new. All they'll find is frustration. I'm pretty much done being frustrated with a game since I left Everquest.
Please...keep the word going. This game is NOT for WoW players and never will be.
To all you playing Vanguard I wish you the best. Hope that your gameplay experience is fulfilling. It's another choice after all and that's always good.
Never be afraid of choices. More choices are always good things.
They do not want a lot of people hitting end game and screaming for more end game content when they already have so much to do to get this game to where it should have been when it launched. They don't even have caravans and fellowship in. There are classes that aren't in. There are places that are unpopulated. (So I read, anyway). So they're gonna put the breaks on folks for sure.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Your posts are always polite and so I will put this to you pragmatically. You are EXACTLY the kind of MMO player I do not condone. Instead of finding something else to play you'll hang around complaining until the devs finally cave and mess the game up. This is exactly what happened to SWG. It is a very selfish attitude especially considering how many games there are out there that appeal to your style of play.
I personally think you should leave Vanguard. It was NEVER advertised as a casual game and they are not just "words" as you put it. It's like walking into a strip joint and acting surprised because there are naked girls dancing around. It was always advertised as a game that would require a significant investment of time. You, for whatever reason, cannot invest that time and so you must find another game to play that is more suited to your particular time constraints.
I'm not trying to be nasty and I do empathize but I dont see why every single MMO that comes out has to be watered down to suit the casual gamer. Some of us do have the time to invest, and this is about the only game that caters to us. It was never targeted at the WoW/EQ2 market. It was targeted at a niche market. It was after a very specific demographic. Not everyone exists therein!
Sharky...Thank you very much for posting this. I wish that all the current Vanguard players were as forthcoming and the developers of Vanguard as well. I had been interested in this game for a while and was looking for reasons to test it, however especially since retail I've seen more and more hints that this game is not for me and others like me.
I'll stay in World of Warcraft and enjoy my time there. This game is NOT in fact for people who enjoy WoW even if they might be looking for something new. All they'll find is frustration. I'm pretty much done being frustrated with a game since I left Everquest.
Please...keep the word going. This game is NOT for WoW players and never will be.
To all you playing Vanguard I wish you the best. Hope that your gameplay experience is fulfilling. It's another choice after all and that's always good.
Amen, I am so glad you can be objective and honest about this. More players of other games should do the same. Not every game is the same as the one you are coming from.
Cheers
S
The entire OPs post is 100% hearsay and I'm surprised so many here took that bait. XP seems the same it has always been since day 1 of preorder. XP for quests is over-the-top. And up til now (lvl 12 shaman), every quest has been soloable. You only need to complete a quest or two to see this for yourself. But if you prefer to rely on hearsay, that's your loss, people.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
I must have missed the memo but when did killing 10000 rats become "more challenging" than killing 1000?
tedious ... yes
challenging ... no
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Britney Spears sells alot of records, it's popular - it doesn't however mean everyone only wants to buy Britney Spears, or that the only type of music made should be Britney Spears, or any type of music that isn't Britney Spears is a failure for not having the same sell through. There are markets for other types and genre's of music - thankfully, finally there is a new MMO catering to those that don't want to have almost every ability on their character, and have explored 95% of the world inside a couple of weeks. Sitting at the raid/PvP/faction grind point gaining nothing new, and very limited new content, just making a long incremental series of marginal upgrades to equipment sounds like a far bigger grind to me than taking the time levelling because there's actually stuff to do during it rather than harvest 20 boar noses then snouts then feet then ears then tails etc.
The reason VG takes longer to level is because there's enough content that at the pace of current levelling you can still only see the smallest fraction of it, and it feels like a proper world with actual other people in it, not these little instanced boxes for those who can't play nice with the other inhabitants.
Some worlds whisk you through because there's no depth to explore if you take your time. Each to their own.
http://mentaltruancy.guildportal.com - Friendly Vanguard:Saga of Heroes Qalia based Guild.
I am a very casual player, I get maybe 2 hours in a couple nights a week but fall into the type of person that doesnt actually want to reach endgame. I just play when I can, and am there to relax and have fun. I dont even need an XP bar, but of course not everyone is like that.
Several people that I know that fall into the hardcore category (if you must group up players) liked the XP reduction as they felt they were leveling way too fast and were worried about max level approaching in a matter of a couple months.
I personally dont see it hurting the "average" casual player, you cant generalize people really, but from my experiences casual players usually expect it to take a while for them to get really leveled up.
There are a lot of WoW comparisons that I have seen with VG. I played WoW since Closed Beta up until a few months ago. I personally dont see how these two games are even comparable as they are night and day. If you want a comparison with it think Ultima Online, but very updated of course. But I guess that is because WoW is king of the hill still (and will remain so for who knows how long) but I really dont see how you can compare the two, the differences are so vast.
But, with that being said I did make a transition from WoW to VG (played NWN2 in-between) and think both are great games. I just basically got played out of WoW and wanted something different, for me this was a good choice. To be honest the only reason I got it was for something to pass the time until AoC came out, but now I dont even think of that game anymore...will see how I feel in October or whenever its scheduled for now.
QOUTE Sharkypal: "It was NEVER advertised as a casual game"
Actually it was, read the sticky at the top of the vanguard forums with a direct quote from Brad.
It was never advertised as a hardcore game.
It WAS advertised as a challenging game. Challenging != Hardcore.
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Wow, were you killing mobs 4 levels lower?
I completed about 10 quests and killed maybe 40 - 50 mobs and leveled from 8 - 10. On multiple characters in multiple starting zones. In about two hours tops.
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What exactly is casual gameplay in some people's minds? Does that mean you only solo because you're too afraid to ask for a group? Not trying to insult anyone here but I can just go stand outside any dungeon from level 9-16 and within 10-15min be invited to a group to head down with. My response to the standard 'we should be able to solo anything arguement' is this is a MMORPG, the other players in the game are not just around to be your tour/quest guides to enhance your soloing agenda. Try interacting with them more than once in a blue moon and you might be surprised that you like interacting with people.
Crafting in this game is not 'casual' as in other games, don't expect to spend 10-15min crafting and expect to create some really good stuff. The crafters wanted it that way and I'm one of them, the game truly has 3 spheres of which you can spend countless hours on and not find an end in sight.
If you do not have the spare time to play these games, seriously pick up Oblivion it's an excellent game and you can save your progress as you go and not have to worry about anything else. Then we you have time, you pick up where you left off.
Playing casual and grouping does tend to go together though...at least it can. Thinking of casual as I do, you frequently cannot sit in front of the computer for hours on end which can make grouping in some games difficult because it is no fun to tell your party that you have to go when you are halfway into a 4 hour dungeon.
This is true,
he on many occations stated this was bascially an EQ clone done right lol. Going back to the core of mmorpgs etc etc etc. In other words he was making it for the old school pve gamers. however with all the new games alot of those people have changed thier mind as far as what they consider fun. This game didn´t stand much of a chance when it started then getting purchased by SOE put the final nail in the coffin. Releasing early I don´t think effects it nearly as much as the bad choices made from the get go.
How often I die or not die isn't the point. It's the fact that it takes time, not a challenge, to get back to where I was. That is a sink.
Making it take a long time to travel to point A to point B is a timesink. Sure I might like the slow path the first time, not the 50th.
As I said I figured you guys claiming this would make the game challenging would praise these things.
A real challenge is smart mob UI or PVP/player combat, not running back to your corpse or spending 20 minutes getting to your group or spending 2-3 days trying to camp a mob for a quest or item because there are no instances and everyone else needs the same thing.
I am sorry but how long you spent wacking your same sword on the same type of mob does not equal challenge but hey, least you guys got a game to "challenge you" now.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
Quote: Aeronis "As for the EXP rate, I don't mind leveling being slow if there is enough content to go with the pace."
Well said, I don't mind if it takes me 1 month to get from level 40 to 41 as long as there is content to entertain me the whole time. If after going to a new area and completing the handfull of quests there and "raiding" the local dungeon a few times I'm only 1% of the way then there had better be a bunch more quests that I can continue to complete. If not and the only way for me to level is to kill mob after mob after mob then it becomes a grind. So far i've not seen that yet in the game (my highest level is 15 so its not exactly "professional" for lack of a better word), it seems like I'm always trying to complete something and the levels just sort of happen.
Maybe I'm strange but I don't get a sense of accomplishment from levelling, it's a means to an end. Something that happens that helps me to complete my adventures. I get the feeling of accomplishment from completing quests, exploring new areas, killing named creatures, etc. As long as I'm constantly feeling accomplished then it's not a grind (at least for me). Even if it takes a month to level.
Quote: Celestian "spending 2-3 days trying to camp a mob for a quest or item because there are no instances and everyone else needs the same thing"
That's not how quest items or quests for named mobs work. If you get a quest to kill a named mob then, when you enter the area where he is, with the quest in your journal, he will spawn for you and be tagged for you so someone else can't kill him. For named mobs they aren't even supposed to be able to attack him. Perfect low level example is the name spirit king in the lesser giant starting area. You should never have to spend any time camping for a mob to finish a quest. And if you've come across a quest to kill a named mob and it didn't spawn for you correctly or get tagged for you correctly please /bug it.
Camping for named mobs that aren't for a quest... well that's a different storyy.
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