So your counter arguement are Cigarettes and McDonalds hamburgers?Aside from the fact that I think its rediculous to compare MMO's to Cigarettes and McDonalds, Cigarettes provide a good feeling to people. and many people love McDonalds Hamburgers. these products ARE quality, just because you don't like them doesn't mean they are not of high quality.
World of Warcraft has received the highest average ratings of ANY mmorpg given by reviewers. not only that, WoW has also received more awards then any other MMORPG. Also that WoW has 8 million subscribers certain helps prove its quality. FYI, the next mmorpg in terms of subscribers is Lineage 1, with only 1,5 million subscribers.
WoW is the best MMO, but that does still not mean its for everyone. if WoW isn't the best, then what MMO is? Its silly to assume they are all of the EXACT same quality level.
It's not rediculous if you understand my point. Anything can sell well, doesn't matter what it is.
Relying on NUMBERS rather than actual game content when comparing WoW with other games doesn't tell anything about WoW at all. Just that it sells well. But does that mean it's the "best"? You know, maby you didn't notice but there's no such thing as a "best" game.
Ofcourse there is a best game. Saying all games are of the EXACT same quality is ignorant. If that was really true, all games would receive the exact same reviews and the exact same awards, since the excuse "diffrent people like diffrent things" could be used here. Sure, its true, diffrent people like diffrent things. If you want, for example, hardcore pvp, go for shadowbane. if you want EQ like gameplay, go for WoW. however, Shadowbane's HC PVP is Not as good for HC pvp players as WoW's EQ like gameplay is for EQ-like gameplay fans.
People crave different things. WoW has no sandboxing whatsoever, if WoW was the "best" it would appeal to me aswell? Right? Because it's the best game. It would contain world lore engagement for the players, it would contain world RvR, it would contain city building and you would be able to do about anything any online game ever invented. But guess what, you can't do anything of that in WoW.
Oh but just because it has the best does not mean that it will apeal to everyone. What you mentioned is only your idea of what an MMO should look like.
WoW is what appeals to the largest amount of people because it's so simple. The majority of online gamers wants to rely on something they feel they have control off. Why can I say something like this? Because the majority of online gamers plays WoW. As simple as that.
Let's draw another example, sure there are lots of more people who play tennis than there are people climbing mountains? Even though climbing mountains is rougher, harder and more advanced than playing tennis, more people are playing tennis. Because they wouldn't wanna go through all the hard work to climb a mountain.
That example is just as poor as your previous one, that I'm not even going bother to explain how absurd it is.
Look at the differences between EVE online and WoW. They gap is about as far as it ever will be. Theese are night and day, black and white.
3/10 for effort, but marks off for the meaninglessness of it all.
Happily constructive critizism
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Originally posted by DuraheLL Happily constructive critizism
Thank you. Your thread is inherently meaningless and, saddest of all, you know it. Needless to say, the sun doesn't rise and set on whether you want people to talk about WoW or not.
Thank you. Your thread is inherently meaningless and, saddest of all, you know it. I know I'm displaying my thoughts and opinions upon how WoW should be discussed and where it shouldn't be discussed at all. If you think it's meaningless be my guest to leave.
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Oh but just because it has the best does not mean that it will apeal to everyone. What you mentioned is only your idea of what an MMO should look like.
There are many categories of MMORPG gamers. Some are sandboxers, some are hardcore-grinders. If WoW is the best it's only the best in one category. It cannot dwell over and overlap the other categories. It's perhaps the best game in your gaming world, but in mine it cannot even set it's feet inside.
So the only thing that might be reasonable, yes, WoW is the "best", but only in it's own category. For those who are not interested in sandboxing that is.
Let's draw another example, sure there are lots of more people who play tennis than there are people climbing mountains? Even though climbing mountains is rougher, harder and more advanced than playing tennis, more people are playing tennis. Because they wouldn't wanna go through all the hard work to climb a mountain.
That example is just as poor as your previous one, that I'm not even going bother to explain how absurd it is.
It means that most players doesn't feel that the games that offers the most depths are worth it because they have to go through all the trouble to reach the goodies. They want instant fun and everything served on the biggest table at once.
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Oh but just because it has the best does not mean that it will apeal to everyone. What you mentioned is only your idea of what an MMO should look like.
There are many categories of MMORPG gamers. Some are sandboxers, some are hardcore-grinders. If WoW is the best it's only the best in one category. It cannot dwell over and overlap the other categories. It's perhaps the best game in your gaming world, but in mine it cannot even set it's feet inside.
So the only thing that might be reasonable, yes, WoW is the "best", but only in it's own category. For those who are not interested in sandboxing that is.
The same can be said about other MMORPG's that aim for a sandbox feels, bringing us back to my previous arguement in this thread.
Let's draw another example, sure there are lots of more people who play tennis than there are people climbing mountains? Even though climbing mountains is rougher, harder and more advanced than playing tennis, more people are playing tennis. Because they wouldn't wanna go through all the hard work to climb a mountain.
That example is just as poor as your previous one, that I'm not even going bother to explain how absurd it is.
It means that most players doesn't feel that the games that offers the most depths are worth it because they have to go through all the trouble to reach the goodies. They want instant fun and everything served on the biggest table at once.
But depth is only one thing. Depth has never been a guarentee of fun. You almost make it sound like "instant fun" is a bad thing. Having to go through trouble to reach good parts is not a good thing.
There are many categories of MMORPG gamers. Some are sandboxers, some are hardcore-grinders. If WoW is the best it's only the best in one category. It cannot dwell over and overlap the other categories. It's perhaps the best game in your gaming world, but in mine it cannot even set it's feet inside.
So the only thing that might be reasonable, yes, WoW is the "best", but only in it's own category. For those who are not interested in sandboxing that is.
<<The same can be said about other MMORPG's that aim for a sandbox feels, bringing us back to my previous arguement in this thread.>>
<<Explain what you mean.>>
Let's draw another example, sure there are lots of more people who play tennis than there are people climbing mountains? Even though climbing mountains is rougher, harder and more advanced than playing tennis, more people are playing tennis. Because they wouldn't wanna go through all the hard work to climb a mountain.
That example is just as poor as your previous one, that I'm not even going bother to explain how absurd it is.
It means that most players doesn't feel that the games that offers the most depths are worth it because they have to go through all the trouble to reach the goodies. They want instant fun and everything served on the biggest table at once.
<<But depth is only one thing. Depth has never been a guarentee of fun. You almost make it sound like "instant fun" is a bad thing. Having to go through trouble to reach good parts is not a good thing.>>
<<Here is where we both think differently. Your idea of gaming is fast and rewarding, and mine lives by the quote "fight for everything".
What is seen as "trouble" to you is seen "as a challenge" to me. It sounds like you'r dangerously close in teaching me what a game should be like.
To you depth is only one thing, to me it is everything.>>
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
I wish people could stop mentioning WoW everywhere you turn and whatever you discuss. No wonder people are so furious about WoW. With so many players there are so many dumbbones that post tons of crap everywhere.
To me WoW hardly even exists and I've had greatly enough of explaining over and over again why I don't like it. Another thing is that all too few have the nerves to ignore the game when it's mentioned. If you really wanna make them stop the best result will be to simply ignore them when they start! If we all could co-op the forums would be a much nicer place!
Cyya!
I didn't bother reading the whole thread, so if this has been mentioned already, then don't mind me
It's rather simple really. WoW is mentioned a lot because that's what most MMORPG players today can relate to. Being an old school MMORPG player I too am annoyed by WoW this, WoW that, but I have to resort to it myself too!
New MMORPG players think WoW invented everything and given the numbers WoW can present us, it's rather easy to come to the conclusion that if you want to talk about MMORPGs with someone, chances are you will have to use WoW as a reference, because that's all they know.
So, yes, us oldies know better, but there is no hiding from WoW's overwhelming success whether you like it or not
There are many categories of MMORPG gamers. Some are sandboxers, some are hardcore-grinders. If WoW is the best it's only the best in one category. It cannot dwell over and overlap the other categories. It's perhaps the best game in your gaming world, but in mine it cannot even set it's feet inside.
So the only thing that might be reasonable, yes, WoW is the "best", but only in it's own category. For those who are not interested in sandboxing that is.
<<The same can be said about other MMORPG's that aim for a sandbox feels, bringing us back to my previous arguement in this thread.>>
<<Explain what you mean.>>
That sanbox games are only "Best" in the Sandbox category.
Let's draw another example, sure there are lots of more people who play tennis than there are people climbing mountains? Even though climbing mountains is rougher, harder and more advanced than playing tennis, more people are playing tennis. Because they wouldn't wanna go through all the hard work to climb a mountain.
That example is just as poor as your previous one, that I'm not even going bother to explain how absurd it is.
It means that most players doesn't feel that the games that offers the most depths are worth it because they have to go through all the trouble to reach the goodies. They want instant fun and everything served on the biggest table at once.
<<But depth is only one thing. Depth has never been a guarentee of fun. You almost make it sound like "instant fun" is a bad thing. Having to go through trouble to reach good parts is not a good thing.>>
<<Here is where we both think differently. Your idea of gaming is fast and rewarding, and mine lives by the quote "fight for everything".
What is seen as "trouble" to you is seen "as a challenge" to me. It sounds like you'r dangerously close in teaching me what a game should be like.
To you depth is only one thing, to me it is everything.>>
Actually, my idea of gaming is not fast in rewarding. Let me take away some confusion, I do not play WoW. I play a diffrent kind of games, but the games I play are not as good as WoW (sadly). As I said, WoW's gameplay is good for a certain audience, just like the games you play are good for your audience. But your games are not as good for your audience as WoW is for its audience.
That sanbox games are only "Best" in the Sandbox category.
<<Indeed.>>
Actually, my idea of gaming is not fast in rewarding. Let me take away some confusion, I do not play WoW. I play a diffrent kind of games, but the games I play are not as good as WoW (sadly). As I said, WoW's gameplay is good for a certain audience, just like the games you play are good for your audience. But your games are not as good for your audience as WoW is for its audience.
<<That - IMO - sounds just absurd. So you are sure all WoW players are having more fun than everybody else who play different kinds off MMORPG's? I have very hard to believe this personally and my own experience. People who play MMORPG's, no matter what kind off MMO or MMORPG, are often very dedicated players. Due to they are willing to spend money each month just to be able to play the game.>>
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
That sanbox games are only "Best" in the Sandbox category.
<<Indeed.>>
Actually, my idea of gaming is not fast in rewarding. Let me take away some confusion, I do not play WoW. I play a diffrent kind of games, but the games I play are not as good as WoW (sadly). As I said, WoW's gameplay is good for a certain audience, just like the games you play are good for your audience. But your games are not as good for your audience as WoW is for its audience.
<<That - IMO - sounds just absurd. So you are sure all WoW players are having more fun than everybody else who play different kinds off MMORPG's? I have very hard to believe this personally and my own experience. People who play MMORPG's, no matter what kind off MMO or MMORPG, are often very dedicated players. Due to they are willing to spend money each month just to be able to play the game.>>
Again, thats not what I'm saying. I think you should re-read my posts to understand my standpoint.
Again, thats not what I'm saying. I think you should re-read my posts to understand my standpoint.
Well, in how many ways can you translate:
"But your games are not as good for your audience as WoW is for its audience."
To something else than what I just explained?
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Comments
3/10 for effort, but marks off for the meaninglessness of it all.
Relying on NUMBERS rather than actual game content when comparing WoW with other games doesn't tell anything about WoW at all. Just that it sells well. But does that mean it's the "best"? You know, maby you didn't notice but there's no such thing as a "best" game.
Ofcourse there is a best game. Saying all games are of the EXACT same quality is ignorant. If that was really true, all games would receive the exact same reviews and the exact same awards, since the excuse "diffrent people like diffrent things" could be used here. Sure, its true, diffrent people like diffrent things. If you want, for example, hardcore pvp, go for shadowbane. if you want EQ like gameplay, go for WoW. however, Shadowbane's HC PVP is Not as good for HC pvp players as WoW's EQ like gameplay is for EQ-like gameplay fans.
People crave different things. WoW has no sandboxing whatsoever, if WoW was the "best" it would appeal to me aswell? Right? Because it's the best game. It would contain world lore engagement for the players, it would contain world RvR, it would contain city building and you would be able to do about anything any online game ever invented. But guess what, you can't do anything of that in WoW.
Oh but just because it has the best does not mean that it will apeal to everyone. What you mentioned is only your idea of what an MMO should look like.
WoW is what appeals to the largest amount of people because it's so simple. The majority of online gamers wants to rely on something they feel they have control off. Why can I say something like this? Because the majority of online gamers plays WoW. As simple as that.
Let's draw another example, sure there are lots of more people who play tennis than there are people climbing mountains? Even though climbing mountains is rougher, harder and more advanced than playing tennis, more people are playing tennis. Because they wouldn't wanna go through all the hard work to climb a mountain.
That example is just as poor as your previous one, that I'm not even going bother to explain how absurd it is.
Look at the differences between EVE online and WoW. They gap is about as far as it ever will be. Theese are night and day, black and white.
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Thank you. Your thread is inherently meaningless and, saddest of all, you know it. Needless to say, the sun doesn't rise and set on whether you want people to talk about WoW or not.
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
So the only thing that might be reasonable, yes, WoW is the "best", but only in it's own category. For those who are not interested in sandboxing that is.
<<The same can be said about other MMORPG's that aim for a sandbox feels, bringing us back to my previous arguement in this thread.>>
<<Explain what you mean.>>
Let's draw another example, sure there are lots of more people who play tennis than there are people climbing mountains? Even though climbing mountains is rougher, harder and more advanced than playing tennis, more people are playing tennis. Because they wouldn't wanna go through all the hard work to climb a mountain.
That example is just as poor as your previous one, that I'm not even going bother to explain how absurd it is.
It means that most players doesn't feel that the games that offers the most depths are worth it because they have to go through all the trouble to reach the goodies. They want instant fun and everything served on the biggest table at once.
<<But depth is only one thing. Depth has never been a guarentee of fun. You almost make it sound like "instant fun" is a bad thing. Having to go through trouble to reach good parts is not a good thing.>>
<<Here is where we both think differently. Your idea of gaming is fast and rewarding, and mine lives by the quote "fight for everything".
What is seen as "trouble" to you is seen "as a challenge" to me. It sounds like you'r dangerously close in teaching me what a game should be like.
To you depth is only one thing, to me it is everything.>>
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
I didn't bother reading the whole thread, so if this has been mentioned already, then don't mind me
It's rather simple really. WoW is mentioned a lot because that's what most MMORPG players today can relate to. Being an old school MMORPG player I too am annoyed by WoW this, WoW that, but I have to resort to it myself too!
New MMORPG players think WoW invented everything and given the numbers WoW can present us, it's rather easy to come to the conclusion that if you want to talk about MMORPGs with someone, chances are you will have to use WoW as a reference, because that's all they know.
So, yes, us oldies know better, but there is no hiding from WoW's overwhelming success whether you like it or not
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Well, in how many ways can you translate:
"But your games are not as good for your audience as WoW is for its audience."
To something else than what I just explained?
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "