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Another Grindfest
Jambutty
Member Posts: 5
Ive Been Playing Vanguard For about a week and as soon as i hit level 10 i found the grind ridiculous compared to similar games like eq2 or wow granted the games got some really cool features and spectacular graphics but whats the point in having those if the game is boring to be honest why do they have to make it so it takes months to get to the top level.
Thats the trouble with most mmorpg's i dont mind the grind but vanguards is one of the bad ones for grinding they should make mmorpg games that you can jump straight into the action without taking months to get to a high enough level to survive basically like consoles games are when you play them online.
For example if they put a huge grind on grand theft auto that wouldnt allow you to drive a car till level 10 and then made it about a 4 week grind up to level 10 noone would want to play it because it would be pointless its basically the same situation on mmorpgs but people are putting up with it which they shouldn't have too.
Comments
Laura "Taera" Genender
Community Manager
MMORPG.com
Yes but the thing is most of the grinds are ridicilous and most of the quick levelling games are either free or just plain junk
Btw You Made Some Good Points
I haven't noticed a grind really but, as you point out every MMORPG has some grind. Why? well it's the nature of the beast I suppose. Dev's don't want people burning through content in a few weeks so they have a level progression, but a game like GTA the devs don't care if it only takes you 10 hours to beat the game cause they already have gotten your money for it. WHile a MMORPG wants you to play for months if not years.
Personally for me, I am having a blast in vanguard, and in the end having fun is what matters. No matter what your playing but, if your the type of gamer who wants instant gratification and wants to be max level in a few days. well, MMORPGs prolly aren't the type of game you should be playing.
Laura "Taera" Genender
Community Manager
MMORPG.com
The long grind in Vanguard is due to the fact that there currently is no high level content. The DEVs don't want their players screaming for high level content in a few weeks, so they intentionally make getting to the top level a long, boring, grind. This gives the DEVs time to implement their untested high level content. It's also another reason they don't want official forums. Sigil knows there is going to be major issues and lack of content, so they avoid direct contact with the players by sneaking out of having official forums.
In a few months the experience curve will be fixed so it won't take as long to get to the high level.
The Game will probably get fully controlled by sony in a few months like eq2 did then the grind will probably drop but the thing is they shouldnt have a big grind at the start because it gives the players a bad impression of the game because alot of players think (early grind = No high-end game content)
RPGs have never been about "Getting to max level so I can play"... IMO, MMORPGs should be no different... Name me a good RPG where the only good content was after you maxed your level... Most RPGs I played were about the the story line And you only needed to level to keep with the enemy levels, usually once you reached level cap the game was or was almsot over..., And there has been plenty of RPGs I have beaten and never reached level cap...
You can't "beat" an MMORPG, And level cap should not be peoples only goal in a RPG of any kind... I messed up one MMO by playing only for level cap... I wont do it again, and im glad this game will take me awhile once I start playing it.
Thats how I look at it anyway... Its a shame so many people only care about hitting the level cap as fast as possible.
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Seriously people need to stop racing to max level and stop grinding. Enjoy a little. I think I am a rare breed of player. I'm not casual but I am not hardcore. I play 6-8 hours a day at least, but I am always way behind the curve. I spend alot of time doing things that are not "time efficient". I stand around and throw buffs on everyone going in and out of time for example. Just doing my part I guess. I wander around looking at the sites. Sometimes my explorer side gets the best of me and I end up in an area perhaps I shouldn't have... and if I die. Oh well I don't get upset. It's all for fun after all.
If you play the game like a job, you'll hate it and burn out.
As for the xp, I think it's good as it is. I do not find it slow. Of course if you grind it takes quite some time to lvl, but with the quests its very fast. Also loot is plenty and quests pay well (starting from around lvl9-10 you get more and more silvers).
I really don't see any grind yet. As someone said previously, maybe you started in an area that is not suited for you ?
Check out http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/113698 its in response to the recently announced UO graphic spruce up. After a dozen or so posts people start reminising about what made UO challenging and fun. Possibly one of the most 'hardcore' mmorpgs ever. A lot of that magic was discarded in EQ1. EQ1 had its own magic it also had some real cahcah.
Also take a look at Steve Wilsons article on the Notion of Work in MMORPG's http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/1100 also some interesting comments in reply. He's talking about casual players butI as a hardcore player I want the same things.
I think this is the main reason there are so many so called 'haters'. Personally I am not but I do hold BMcQ responsible for some appalling 'unfun' game mechanics. In a cynical and single minded way he introduced things like camping and grinding to keep people playing longer. I dunno how Vanguard will turn out if it turns into a grindfest I hope people send a clear message by withdrawing there $'s. If not great, have fun!
I know Brad swings by now and then....nothing personal I respect your work ethic and passion. I just hope you have correctly identified what was fun in EQ and what was absolute tedium frustrating and just plain bad.
The fact of the matter is grinding is a mechanism that acts as artificial content. Long grinds are the spotlight that shine upon the limitations of developers and/or the current state of technology available to do what they would ideally like to be able to do. It takes a simple minded person to take pleasure in boring repetitive actions for extensive periods, for a supposed reward. Believe me I understand the calming effects of simple repetitive actions, but when that encompasses the majority of a game... well then it is a failure. Ideally what is wanted are games that are compelling and entertaining, not chores.By customizable, do you mean player built, or players pick several "features" for a randomly generated dungeon? Randomly generated stuff always makes me wince...our technology just isn't far enough along to make it really...different. You just end up doing the same thing with very minor differences. "Kill 5 orcs." "Kill 10 goblins." "Collect 7 rabbit's feet." "Collect 20 fish scales." It's almost always the same formula of doing X for Y repetitions.
I would much rather have less content that is hand crafted than more that is randomly generated.
Laura "Taera" Genender
Community Manager
MMORPG.com
I agree with what you say and I'll give an example where a game got it right.
Let's look at Counter-Strike, the popular mod for Half-Life as I am very familiar with this having played it for around 4 years at least.
This game started out as a simple mod created by two people. There is very little complicated about this game. The core of the game is based around some very simple dynamics of counter terrorist and terrorist trying to accomplish an objective in a relatively small sandbox map.The majority of the games population have played this game on a small number of maps with the same weapons and pretty much the same everything for 5+ years. It is as compelling today as it was when it started and would still be incredibly popular if the developers hadn't made the mess it has with their Source sequel.CS is proof you don't need fancy bells and whistles to make a compelling game that people enjoy for many years. You don't get any shiny glowy guns after playing CS for such and such amount of time.Playing the game and becoming accomplished at it , was it's own reward.
Needless to say the formula of popular MMO's of today : Time x Boring Grind = Item Reward , I feel is wrong and unbalanced and needs fixing soon.
This means you have to allow player conflict and sadly that turns quite a few people off. If some one can come up with a formula where the struggle of the players actually mean something and at the same time make it so that pvp is not too painful for those that just want to go about there business I think that could be real big.
Sadly I have never enjoyed FPS's that much but there are a couple of games on the horizon that employ some of there features. Actually AC (darktide of course) was a lot of fun and that needed aiming and running round and stuff.