Actually I think the answer to the problem is player driven content. There is only so much devs can add after all.
This means you have to allow player conflict and sadly that turns quite a few people off. If some one can come up with a formula where the struggle of the players actually mean something and at the same time make it so that pvp is not too painful for those that just want to go about there business I think that could be real big.
Sadly I have never enjoyed FPS's that much but there are a couple of games on the horizon that employ some of there features. Actually AC (darktide of course) was a lot of fun and that needed aiming and running round and stuff.
That seperation is very much a part of the problem though.Everything needs to be brought together to make sense rather than isolated sandbox within a sandbox.
i dont wont to be max level in a few days but maybe in a few months and they could if they wanted to put content in that would make people want to stay for years for EG. customisable dungeons and house stuff like that think about Ultima Online that has been going for many many years and still is and theres no proper grind in that and SWG when that started out there was no proper grind they prove that you dont need a grind to make a good game.
I think that VG may be more like UO then any other game out there.
There is housing and it is customisable, you'll even be able to place it were you want to a limit.
Grinding is typically a symptom of a player that is trying to make a FPS out of an RPG. RPGs are for experiencing a different world, not just fighting other players and seeing who can get the best equipment. In Vanguard there are so many other things to do besides fighting that if fighting is all you are interested in then you are playing the wrong game.
This simply is just not true.
What's the point of an mmorpg if you can't roleplay a fighter?
I think that VG may be more like UO then any other game out there.
Please do not insult a classic game, well formerly classic by comparing it to something thats years away from accomplishing what UO did.
Player housing does not make the games similar.
But yeah people complaining about the grind in this game, you should have been around for the early chronicles of Lineage 2, OI!
This game offers some kind of distractions that can steal you away from grinding mobs for even a little. And thats already better then a game like Lineage 2, where grinding mobs is all you had to do, it was the game, there was nothing else.
Ive Been Playing Vanguard For about a week and as soon as i hit level 10 i found the grind ridiculous compared to similar games like eq2 or wow granted the games got some really cool features and spectacular graphics but whats the point in having those if the game is boring to be honest why do they have to make it so it takes months to get to the top level. Thats the trouble with most mmorpg's i dont mind the grind but vanguards is one of the bad ones for grinding they should make mmorpg games that you can jump straight into the action without taking months to get to a high enough level to survive basically like consoles games are when you play them online. For example if they put a huge grind on grand theft auto that wouldnt allow you to drive a car till level 10 and then made it about a 4 week grind up to level 10 noone would want to play it because it would be pointless its basically the same situation on mmorpgs but people are putting up with it which they shouldn't have too.
If you don't like grinds then you've got the wrong genre. You want it to be more like WoW where you hit the level cap in a month and then sit there in your computer chair with that "what's next?" look on your face? Vanguard isn't the kind of game where you're supposed to turn and burn to the max level (even though some people choose to play that way) You take in the sights and sounds, explore, adventure, interact with people and make an impact in the virtual world of telon.
If you don't like grinds then you've got the wrong genre. You want it to be more like WoW where you hit the level cap in a month and then sit there in your computer chair with that "what's next?" look on your face? Vanguard isn't the kind of game where you're supposed to turn and burn to the max level (even though some people choose to play that way) You take in the sights and sounds, explore, adventure, interact with people and make an impact in the virtual world of telon.
Yeah totally, it takes you 1 month to get through the WoW content, because once you reach level 60 before expansion and 70 after, there is nothing else because the game is all focused on levels. I swear all i did was kill 1 million boars till i leveled, it was that lame.
Oh and raiding, a lot of raiding, but of course Vanguard is different, so its probably not focused on raiding, because you know it has a unique vision.
From a solo gamer like I's prospective...I would say Vanguard grind is pretty painful.
I am a roleplayer, (can be considered) hard core gamer and very much a solo grinder...this game is not my friend.
I would have to say, sadly the VG grind is as bad as the RF Online grind...which was actually a lot more fun and easy in my view compared to Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. I am not really one for hoping onto an MMO to grab a pick up group or race solo (as a rogue) to catch up with the people in my guild racing for high level. I would grind more of I actually saw this game having more end game content besides harder dungons. I know most MMO's aren't very good in their first days, so I will most likely stay with it... It's just sad that the solo content Sigil spoke of is the grind of 1-10.
Besides that.. it has its good points.
Note: On the point of RF grind and other huge grinds...
Those games kept my attention due to the end game content...like RF"s PVP.
Sooo to not sound like a flamer..I suppose we all will wait and see what happens with End Game over time.
Originally posted by Jambutty I Havent Just got my horse it takes ages to get money on the game and there is no decent loot and i am doing all the quests i can and the experience is still slow
It should take you about 8 hours to make your first gold.
I was killing a named at 13 that was dropping good loots that people wanted to buy. I just gave it away though because it's early and people need the gear. The named was on a beach so it's pretty much there for anyone to kill.
Why do you care about experience? The game doesn't change from level 1 to level 49. The only thing that changes is the gear gets better. But the gear has to get better the mobs are tougher. I'd say if you don't enjoy what you're doing at level 13 you won't enjoy the game at 49 and therefore the game probably isn't for you.
Originally posted by ICE10 From a solo gamer like I's prospective...I would say Vanguard grind is pretty painful. I am a roleplayer, (can be considered) hard core gamer and very much a solo grinder...this game is not my friend. I would have to say, sadly the VG grind is as bad as the RF Online grind...which was actually a lot more fun and easy in my view compared to Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. I am not really one for hoping onto an MMO to grab a pick up group or race solo (as a rogue) to catch up with the people in my guild racing for high level. I would grind more of I actually saw this game having more end game content besides harder dungons. I know most MMO's aren't very good in their first days, so I will most likely stay with it... It's just sad that the solo content Sigil spoke of is the grind of 1-10. Besides that.. it has its good points.Note: On the point of RF grind and other huge grinds... Those games kept my attention due to the end game content...like RF"s PVP. Sooo to not sound like a flamer..I suppose we all will wait and see what happens with End Game over time.
Well i've pretty much soloed to 20 and the exp i've been getting is better than my friends who've played much longer in groups.
I'm not sure what you mean by "it's just sad that the solo content Sigil spoke of is the grind of 1-10". Solo content by no means ends at 10. Unless you're playing a class that isn't meant to solo then ofcourse it probably does. If you're trying to solo as a rogue well yeah you're not going to be able to do it. I'm not sure who would pick a class like rogue and think hey i should be able to solo this class. Logically it makes no sense to me. Druids, wizards, necros, psi's. Those are solo classes.
Vanguard will have the best end game content ever if you like raiding. The game is rich in tactics so the raids should be quite spicey.
If you don't like grinds then you've got the wrong genre. You want it to be more like WoW where you hit the level cap in a month and then sit there in your computer chair with that "what's next?" look on your face? Vanguard isn't the kind of game where you're supposed to turn and burn to the max level (even though some people choose to play that way) You take in the sights and sounds, explore, adventure, interact with people and make an impact in the virtual world of telon.
FYI, 5 days after release there is already a level 33. I expect to see the first 50 within LESS than a month.
And I never found EQ2 to be anything like the grind in VG. EQ1 was a grind for the most part until you can hit 60+ and start doing some of the better quests (and guess who designed most of early EQ1...). Never played WOW so I cannot comment on it. DAOC had a lot of grinding for the first half or so. Eve Online - despite it's very high reviews here - is a total grindfest for a long time before you can move on to trading and building anything of interest (spent many days just grinding away at space rocks there..).
If you don't like grinds then you've got the wrong genre. You want it to be more like WoW where you hit the level cap in a month and then sit there in your computer chair with that "what's next?" look on your face? Vanguard isn't the kind of game where you're supposed to turn and burn to the max level (even though some people choose to play that way) You take in the sights and sounds, explore, adventure, interact with people and make an impact in the virtual world of telon.
Yeah totally, it takes you 1 month to get through the WoW content, because once you reach level 60 before expansion and 70 after, there is nothing else because the game is all focused on levels. I swear all i did was kill 1 million boars till i leveled, it was that lame.
Oh and raiding, a lot of raiding, but of course Vanguard is different, so its probably not focused on raiding, because you know it has a unique vision.
If you think Vanguard won't be focused on raiding in a few months, I have some ocean front property to in Arizona to sell you real cheap.
I guess grind is a subjective thing, however I think most people would agree EQ1 was a grind and DAoC was a grind etc. at least at certain times of there lives they where. The main thing that stays my hand from signing up for VG is that I am no longer prepared to do mindless repetitions for extended periods. I guess everyone has there own threshold of pain and definition of 'extended period'
Whether you love hate or are indifferent to EQII it was possible to completely turn off combat experience and level entirely from non repeatable quests, exploration, finding collections etc. From that point of view it is pretty grindless to get to 70 and doing it this way is pretty 'hardcore'.
I've seen a couple of posts saying play at your own speed which is fine however if it takes the killing of 20,000 mobs to get from L1 to L20 whether you do that in a week or a month its a grind isn't it?
I guess there are the other spheres but as I have learnt from other games (Ryzom springs to mind) this is often jus just an excuse to present a grind to an alternative objective. (3 trees to grind rather than 1 or in Ryzoms case dozens of branches)
I am a hardcore player and I want a challenging game. Its just to me having to kill 10 times the mobs to get through a level is not really the challenge I am looking for, thats mindless repetition. Who wouldn't rather do one really tough encounter (and maybe fail a few times) rather than repeating an easier one a dozen time?
I Havent Just got my horse it takes ages to get money on the game and there is no decent loot and i am doing all the quests i can and the experience is still slow
It looks like you are just plain used to playing a higher level character on another game. . .
You prove a good point. They need to make MMORPG's to where you get most things when you jump right in, but it DOES change and you "achieve" things.
I don't know how that would work, but it's true. You should be able to just jump in instantly like a console game. Also though, there should be more to it than that. Hmm, I don't know though.
Comments
I think that VG may be more like UO then any other game out there.
There is housing and it is customisable, you'll even be able to place it were you want to a limit.
This simply is just not true.
What's the point of an mmorpg if you can't roleplay a fighter?
.
Please do not insult a classic game, well formerly classic by comparing it to something thats years away from accomplishing what UO did.
Player housing does not make the games similar.
But yeah people complaining about the grind in this game, you should have been around for the early chronicles of Lineage 2, OI!
This game offers some kind of distractions that can steal you away from grinding mobs for even a little. And thats already better then a game like Lineage 2, where grinding mobs is all you had to do, it was the game, there was nothing else.
Oh and raiding, a lot of raiding, but of course Vanguard is different, so its probably not focused on raiding, because you know it has a unique vision.
I am a roleplayer, (can be considered) hard core gamer and very much a solo grinder...this game is not my friend.
I would have to say, sadly the VG grind is as bad as the RF Online grind...which was actually a lot more fun and easy in my view compared to Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. I am not really one for hoping onto an MMO to grab a pick up group or race solo (as a rogue) to catch up with the people in my guild racing for high level. I would grind more of I actually saw this game having more end game content besides harder dungons. I know most MMO's aren't very good in their first days, so I will most likely stay with it... It's just sad that the solo content Sigil spoke of is the grind of 1-10.
Besides that.. it has its good points.
Note: On the point of RF grind and other huge grinds...
Those games kept my attention due to the end game content...like RF"s PVP.
Sooo to not sound like a flamer..I suppose we all will wait and see what happens with End Game over time.
yay
It should take you about 8 hours to make your first gold.
I was killing a named at 13 that was dropping good loots that people wanted to buy. I just gave it away though because it's early and people need the gear. The named was on a beach so it's pretty much there for anyone to kill.
Why do you care about experience? The game doesn't change from level 1 to level 49. The only thing that changes is the gear gets better. But the gear has to get better the mobs are tougher. I'd say if you don't enjoy what you're doing at level 13 you won't enjoy the game at 49 and therefore the game probably isn't for you.
Make a difference!
Well i've pretty much soloed to 20 and the exp i've been getting is better than my friends who've played much longer in groups.
I'm not sure what you mean by "it's just sad that the solo content Sigil spoke of is the grind of 1-10". Solo content by no means ends at 10. Unless you're playing a class that isn't meant to solo then ofcourse it probably does. If you're trying to solo as a rogue well yeah you're not going to be able to do it. I'm not sure who would pick a class like rogue and think hey i should be able to solo this class. Logically it makes no sense to me. Druids, wizards, necros, psi's. Those are solo classes.
Vanguard will have the best end game content ever if you like raiding. The game is rich in tactics so the raids should be quite spicey.
Make a difference!
FYI, 5 days after release there is already a level 33. I expect to see the first 50 within LESS than a month.
And I never found EQ2 to be anything like the grind in VG. EQ1 was a grind for the most part until you can hit 60+ and start doing some of the better quests (and guess who designed most of early EQ1...). Never played WOW so I cannot comment on it. DAOC had a lot of grinding for the first half or so. Eve Online - despite it's very high reviews here - is a total grindfest for a long time before you can move on to trading and building anything of interest (spent many days just grinding away at space rocks there..).
Oh and raiding, a lot of raiding, but of course Vanguard is different, so its probably not focused on raiding, because you know it has a unique vision.
If you think Vanguard won't be focused on raiding in a few months, I have some ocean front property to in Arizona to sell you real cheap.
Whether you love hate or are indifferent to EQII it was possible to completely turn off combat experience and level entirely from non repeatable quests, exploration, finding collections etc. From that point of view it is pretty grindless to get to 70 and doing it this way is pretty 'hardcore'.
I've seen a couple of posts saying play at your own speed which is fine however if it takes the killing of 20,000 mobs to get from L1 to L20 whether you do that in a week or a month its a grind isn't it?
I guess there are the other spheres but as I have learnt from other games (Ryzom springs to mind) this is often jus just an excuse to present a grind to an alternative objective. (3 trees to grind rather than 1 or in Ryzoms case dozens of branches)
I am a hardcore player and I want a challenging game. Its just to me having to kill 10 times the mobs to get through a level is not really the challenge I am looking for, thats mindless repetition. Who wouldn't rather do one really tough encounter (and maybe fail a few times) rather than repeating an easier one a dozen time?
Cheers.
http://mentaltruancy.guildportal.com - Friendly Vanguard:Saga of Heroes Qalia based Guild.
You prove a good point. They need to make MMORPG's to where you get most things when you jump right in, but it DOES change and you "achieve" things.
I don't know how that would work, but it's true. You should be able to just jump in instantly like a console game. Also though, there should be more to it than that. Hmm, I don't know though.